So Long Subs – A Farewell Update from the Disneyland Resort

Written by Norman Gidney. Posted in Disneyland Resort, Features, In the Parks

Tagged: , , , , , , , , ,

Published on January 03, 2014 at 3:00 am with 106 Comments

All good things must come to an end.  It was a wildly successful season that saw insane crowd levels in both parks.  While Holidays at the Disneyland Resort ends Monday night, this weekend will be the final chance for many to experience Christmastime at the Disneyland Resort.  Both Disney California Adventure and Disneyland will still be in holiday mode until the end of operations on Sunday night. Keep in mind that the Finding Nemo Submarine Voyage is going down Monday, January 6th, for what the Disney Parks Blog is calling a “refurbishment.”  We take you down for one last ride. Things are also coming along on Big Thunder Mountain as a large section of barrier wall was removed along the back end.  On the opposite side of the park, Space Mountain is finally getting a proper cleaning. Otherwise, things are relatively quite in the parks.  Andy Castro will be covering the recent New Years festivities in detail this Monday (Dusty and I, along with about 60 MiceChatters, spent NYE at Knott’s Berry Farm this year), so please check back on Monday.  Now sit back, relax, and enjoy a brief update from the Disneyland resort.

Finding Nemo Submarine Voyage

According the the Disney Parks Blog, Nemo is going down for refurbishment from January 6th, to Friday, September 26th. However, a recent MiceAge update indicates that it is likely Nemo may never reopen. It is well-known that aside from being a glacially slow loader, 800-ish an hour, it is the single most expensive ride to operate in the resort.  But with the belt being tightened at the moment on all spending, Nemo is an easy target.

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We suppose that if the park must tighten its belt, this would be the attraction to close. However, the loss of that beautiful lagoon is painful indeed.

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We will soon know where the financial ebb and flow will guide this poor, iconic attraction.  But, for now we invite you to enjoy a final ride on the Finding Nemo Submarine Voyage.

 

After Paul Pressler closed the Subs in September of 1998, it left a large unused piece of real estate in the middle of Disneyland.  Eventually, all agreed that the Tomorrowland problem needed to be addressed. But the only way to get the board to approve the huge financial expenditure and revitalize the existing attraction, was to tie it to a successful intellectual property.  After a bit of testing, it was finally announced that Pixar’s Finding Nemo would be used.

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When the subs reopened in 2007, the fan community was overjoyed – not so much for the Pixar overlay  (which many deride for its lackluster use of video screens in place of animatronics), but for the chance to ride, once again, in the submarines designed by Disney Legend Bob Gurr.  It was good to see motion in the lagoon again after so many years of it sitting empty and lifeless.

Now we find ourselves on the verge of losing the subs again.  It’s an inevitable fate for this unique experience.  Walt wanted to give guests a “real show” in producing a submarine that was under water.  But Walt was the dreamer, not the financial wizard.  His dream came to fruition, but was hardly something sustainable.

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Our advice?  If you want to experience this attraction before it goes away, get to the park before Sunday Night.

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Bon Voyage Subs!  You gave us some wonderful adventures in liquid space.

Billy Hill and the Hillbillies

Another park staple that will be departing after Monday night is Billy Hill and the Hillbillies.  Kirk Wall and his original clan of music makers began performing in 1992 and have since become a fan favorite.  But, back in November, the Disney Parks Blog announced that the Billies would have their final performance at the park on Sunday, January 6th, 2014. Which leaves the Billies without a job.

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They are performing way back in the outdoor, Jingle Jangle Jamboree.  Expect a large crowd for the final performance and get there early.

If you love the Billies, there is still some hope . . . but not at Disneyland. On New Years Eve, Krazy Kirk and the Hillbillies performed just down the road at Knott’s Berry Farm. They were given the freedom to perform numbers that Disneyland hasn’t been letting them do and they had a HUGE crowd of folks there to see them (including us). If you’d like to help Krazy Kirk and the band, please be sure to contact Knott’s Berry Farm and ask them to put the Hillbillies on the regular entertainment schedule. The decision is really up to you at this point.

Knott’s Berry Farm – 
8039 Beach Boulevard, 
Buena Park, CA USA 90620
Guest Relations: (714) 220-5200

Mail:

Knott’s Berry Farm
8039 Beach Boulevard.
Buena Park, CA USA 90620

Additional Contact Information

  • General Info, Guest Relations: (714) 220-5200

– See more at: http://www.customerservicenumbers.org/knotts-berry-farm/#sthash.qg3z7xMs.dpuf

Mail:

Knott’s Berry Farm
8039 Beach Boulevard.
Buena Park, CA USA 90620

Additional Contact Information

  • General Info, Guest Relations: (714) 220-5200

– See more at: http://www.customerservicenumbers.org/knotts-berry-farm/#sthash.qg3z7xMs.dpuf

Big Thunder Mountain Railroad

Testing is happening around the clock.  The familiar sound of the chain lift in the earthquake scene can be heard while walking along Big Thunder Trail. Cast members can be heard making announcements over the loudspeakers throughout the attraction.

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A large section of construction barrier walls was removed along the backside of the mountain, revealing part of the landscape once again.

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While the interior show lighting is still being tweaked, the exterior lighting at night is saturated and beautiful.

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We are eagerly anticipating the reopening of this beloved attraction on February 14th.  No word yet on soft-opening dates.

Crowds

Another word of warning, the crowds will be intense this weekend.  In fact, pics from yesterday show Splash, Space and Indy with two hour waits. Yikes! Disneyland has enacted some crowd control measures to help ease the flow of people around the park.

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A glance at the wait times board.

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In order to enter Adventureland on crowd-control days, you will be forced to enter via Frontierland and make your way around a traffic divider of  benches. The tight path through Adventureland becomes a one-way exit out of the west side of the park.

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It’s actually a clever use of existing space.

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Tomorrowland traffic is equally bad.

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This spot (between Star Tours and Buzz Lightyear – with Astro Orbiter in the middle) is one of the worst bottlenecks in the park.

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Even at the exit, crowd control is there to funnel guests into the correct turnstiles.

Space Mountain

With all of the proper safety equipment now in place (per Disney’s OSHA standards), cleaning of the exterior of the Space Mountain Dome is underway.

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In space, no one can see you clean. But we saw these guys on the backside of the mountain. You can immediately see the cleaned portions and yellowed dirty section.

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From the hub, inside the park, you can see a difference between the top portion and the lower.

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The side facing Tomorrowland itself is rather filthy.

 

That just about wraps things up for this update of the Disneyland Resort this week.  We hope that you all had a wonderful New Years celebration.  Andy Castro will be returning on Monday morning to give you a full run down on the festivities that occurred on New Years, along with pics and video!  We will be seeing you again soon, In The Parks!

About Norman Gidney

Norman Gidney, also known as Fishbulb, has produced and edited many of the articles on MiceChat over the years.

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  • pattimarie

    I have a couple of questions. All the Disney calendars show Christmas going to Monday. Is it really ending Sunday? This is a little off topic, but has anyone else noticed that all merchandise discounts at Disneyland have ended as of the 31st for all pass levels? I haven’t seen any discussion of this, and I wonder if the note on the annual passholder page just appeared stealth-like on the 1st, or might even be wrong. I was going to renew my pass, but now I’m reconsidering.

    • Christmastime is through Monday.

      Haven’t heard about the end of passholder discounts. Will have to research that. Would certainly be a stupid move by Disney if true.

    • Bobbee

      Just looked at the DL website and it now says discounts good through 12/31/2014. The discounts are the same as before.

      • pattimarie

        Thanks for the info. Even on January 1, the site said they ended 12/31/13, but I guess that was just an updating issue. I really use the discounts and it makes the pass worthwhile.

  • LoonAZ

    PattiMarie,

    I share your concern about the discounts, but I think this is just an annual update to the website. Here is a link to another website outlining the same concerns last year (2012-2013)….

    http://www.disneybymark.com/2013/01/02/updated-annual-passholders-lose-discount/

    My guess is that Disney sets it up this way in order to give them the opportunity to make changes to the discount structure annually.

    We’ll have to wait and see if they implement any changes to the 2014 discount structure. I’d bet the discounts will be posted soon.

  • FerretAfros

    I’m still very skeptical that the Disney Parks Blog is trying to pull such a blatant bait-and-switch with the subs. Their intentions should become more clear in a week or two, once work begins, but I suspect the attraction will reopen later in the year

    I also have a difficult time believing that the Subs are more expensive to operate than the Disneyland Railroad. With 5 steam locomotives, the wooden rolling stock, and large dinosaur AA’s to maintain, in addition to its huge onstage cast, I imagine it takes a lot more work and requires more specialized labor

    • Country Bear

      Good comment that I hadn’t considered. I suspect that the trains cannot be shut down because you don’t want a closed attraction at the very entrance to your park. Sends the wrong message – even accountants must realize this.

      • 9oldmen

        The trains can be shut down. They were shut down for 18 months back in the late eighties for “Splash Mountain” construction.

      • 9oldmen

        The trains can be shut down. They were shut down for 18 months back in the late eighties for “Splash Mountain” construction.

    • Freddie Freelance

      But the DLRR can carry 200 passengers each train, and does a full circle tour in 20 minutes, so each train can carry 600 passengers an hour, and often carries more since many people just ride the train one or two stops, and then the DLRR usually runs four trains at a time during busy hours, so they’re moving 2,500 people an hour easily at busy times. Compare that to a ride that carries 800 an hour when running at peak efficiency, and has been suffering constant breakdowns of subs for years due to battery issues which means it almost never runs at peak efficiency.

      Even if the DLRR may cost more to run as a single item, it costs less at a per rider level, plus the DLRR is one of the iconic rides of the park and would probably be the very last ride to close if they ever closed down Disneyland.

  • BradyNBradleysMom

    On our last visit to Disneyland, my sons were really excited to ride the subs because we had never done that before. It was never an intention of ours, we just never fit it into our day before…and my boys saw old home movies of ours on VHS from when my husband was a boy and his parents took him on the subs at WDW. My boys thought the subs would be cool. Neither my husband nor I had ever rode on them as adults, but I had good memories from my childhood of the original sub ride at Disneyland. I don’t think I ever rode it in Florida though.

    Anyway, that sub ride was one of the worst things we ever did together. We hated every minute of it. I actually got a little claustrophobic. Someone had a toddler on the ride and the baby messed its diaper, so the inside of the sub stank like that. There was also a strong mold/standing water smell and there was indeed water in the bottom of our sub. The whole thing was very awkward. Also, I will say that I am about 80 lbs heavier than I want to be right now. I was embarrassed at how awkward it was for me to move around in the sub or get down into it. I thought everything in the lagoon looked faded and cheap like it was Six Flags and the video effects in the water were dumb in my opinion. The old Jules Verne creatures and storyline was fun and charming…and actually reminded me of an underwater Haunted Mansion (because of the creepy voice and the story of being in another place, but instead of a haunted place it was this kind of creepy underwater place).

    The Nemo stuff was awful. We all wanted off the ride almost as soon as it started. Never again will I ride this thing, even if it somehow survives and is still there when I take my grandkids to Disneyland 20 years from now. I ain’t getting in those things again!

    • Country Bear

      Was it really THAT bad? You didn’t like nor appreciate a single thing about it at all?

    • stevek

      Sorry you didn’t like it…this is the first incredibly negative review that I’ve read though I’m sure there are others. I can honestly say that I like the older version of the subs better but I also really enjoyed this new version and never experienced the issues you had.

    • billyjobobb

      I would tend to agree. You couldn’t pay me to get on the subs again, and they were my favorite as a kid.

      People don’t understand that they have to go to the end before they sit down, It is claustrophobic, then the whole thing is just wonky. It’s cheesy, and it looks like a high school class could create better effects.

    • DobbysCloset

      I rode the subs constantly as a child in the early 1960’s and from then on until they closed down…

      All of the things you so honestly mentioned — stinky diaper babies, extra-large people causing the subs to ship water and, most importantly, the stupid cartoon fish named after the real Captain of the Nautilus for some weird stupid reason — none of that present.

      The Submarine Voyage ride was, for a childhood fan of Jules Verne with a dog named Capt. Nemo in 1962, a total joy.

    • Internitty

      Personally I love the subs, I’m 50 and enjoy riding them every time I go to DLR. Perhaps adults who loved them as kids and don’t like them as adults should think about all the kids who haven’t been on them yet or are their favourites.

    • TacAlert

      I think B&Bmom was just more concerned about how she felt and not what her kids thought. She is possibly one of those people who hangs out for 4 hours in the same spot to see the fireworks every night or Fantasmic. Just saying. You know the type.

      • thebear

        That’s funny.

      • BradyNBradleysMom

        TacAlert —

        Since you have never met me and don’t know me, I think it’s best if you don’t opine on what I am most concerned about. My sons both thought the subs were a waste of our time in the park and regretted wanting to go on them. To this day, if anyone asks them about the subs, they make faces and say how much they hated being in them. We only went on the subs because my boys wanted to do it, and the whole family regretted that decision.

        And sweetie I’d never stand in one spot for four hours waiting for anything. I’ve seen plenty of fireworks in my lifetime and couldn’t care less about Fantasmic.

        I do hope you don’t make a habit of judging other MiceChat members and inventing things about people you’ve never met and don’t know. It’s really unfair of you.

    • DoctorQ9

      I enjoyed the Nemo ride, but there has to be a better video out there than the one that is featured in the article!

  • LoveStallion

    I don’t have a deep love for the Nemo sub overlay, but the existence of the subs themselves is as iconic as their 1959 stabelmates – the Matterhorn and the Monorail. The lagoon and the kinetic energy of the place with the subs disappearing into a cave are deeply a party of Disneyland’s aesthetic. It’d be a shame to lose that, despite the understandable financial reasons.

  • Country Bear

    Thanks for the update Norm.

    The news is hard to believe about the subs. Although there is no reason to question your reporting as Disney has used this tactic before. Best way to avoid any negative press or whining from the Disney purists (of which I am one). It just seems odd as this was such an expensive attraction to rebuild and is very popular (particularly with kids). Perhaps we’ll see it replaced with a lightly themed spinner that will be just as good, if not better, on paper.

    Has anyone noticed that there has been a very deafening silence from John Lassitter lately? This was one of his babies and I would think he would have some thoughts on it. Perhaps he’s being silenced so that someone else at Disney can enjoy the headlines. Or perhaps he is consciously distancing himself from the subject because he knew it was coming? Pretty convenient time to tear out an E Ticket attraction with no one to argue it in the media. Tony Baxter is out of the way now, so he can’t stand against this.

    If your analysis is true, then we are witnessing, first hand, the management of WDW (sorry, One Disney) beginning its plunder of Disneyland’s heart and soul. Such an amazing and unique attraction to Disneyland. Well I guess, they certainly didn’t need one in Orlando, so why do we need one in California?

    Very sad news indeed.

    • Internitty

      The plunder was inevitable, I’m surprised it took so long. Disney don’t care what fans / guests want anymore, look at the Disneyland Hotel Waterfall when the fan community was up in arms did they listen? No, but we did get some really tacky rusting slide overlays. Of course the closure of The Court of Angels to expand Club 33 so they can add more members and make extra bucket loads of money and now the postponement and cancellation of so many projects to pay for a white elephants to monitor your movement and spending in Disneyworld. The days of having rides and exhibits in Disneyland just for the art of it are over and the One Disney syndrome. It’s such a shame no one on the board really cares about anything but money.

    • BigBobxxx

      “Perhaps we’ll see it replaced with a lightly themed spinner that will be just as good, if not better, on paper.”

      That seems awfully expensive.
      Why not another meet-and-greet with a couple themed food carts?

      Maybe they could just mark it as “Operates Seasonally; Temporarily Closed” for a few years, before they quietly close it down-the-road. Or, is that just one of our WDW tactics?

  • notlemc

    Great Update! Although its tough to see some rides and performances leave the parks, I hope that they will be replaced with something original and better.

    Any update from DCA or are they still plugging along as usual?

  • skoolpsyk

    So MiceChat is doubling down on the subs closure, ehh? I still find it very hard to believe with the upcoming sequel to Nemo in production. We’ll see but it will be interesting to see how micechat spins the news if they don’t…and their credibility will take a big hit…

    • yichku59

      It is the equivalent of doubling down on a 13 against a dealer’s face card. Lolzz

    • The parks lie to guests all the time. The Rocket Rods closed for a refurbishment, so did Light Magic. All sorts of cuts are made because “our guests have told us,” as though the guests have demanded the cuts. I wouldn’t assume that anything posted by the Disney Parks blog is completely accurate. They are simply a mouthpiece for corporate control of the message. While they’ve written many wonderful things, it’s pure corporate propaganda. They also pay people to post messages here and elsewhere to support their message. Keep that in mind.

      And yes, the subs were targeted due to their expense according to multiple well placed sources. They are being closed with drained lagoon to cut costs. Consider it mothballing until final decisions are made about Tomorrowland’s future. It’s a logical fan reaction to not want to believe bad news, but this is in fact a sad reaction to a massive budget slashing which is going to result in many unfortunate things company-wide.

      Meanwhile, a bloodbath is going on in Imagineering as folks are disappearing and fingers are being pointed over MyMagic+. This is a VERY stressful time for the magic makers and lots of tongues are wagging.

      • stevek

        I’ve lived through many of these “refurbishments” through my 40+ years of visiting Disneyland but I’ll take a wait and see approach on the subs. While I can certainly understand the cost concerns, it’s still a fairly popular attraction…much more than the original subs were when they met their end if I remember correctly. I just don’t see Disney shutting it down unless they have a clear plan for that area and are waiting to announce it later this year.

        While I’m sad to hear that anyone is losing their jobs due to MM+, perhaps imagineering should look in the mirror a bit and realize that the inflated amounts they charge to develop attractions could also be contributing to some of the financial issues.

        On a side note, Magic Bands received some negative airplay on KTLA 5 here on Los Angeles today. Expressing concerns over consumer privacy and specifically stating that CM’s could track the movement of children.

      • dlpostcardguy

        I’ll have to agree with you guys (and trust your sources) on this. Not the first time something ‘closed for refurbishment’ and never re-opened. I personally don’t have an issue with them closing but do take issue with the fact it may just sit there for years with nothing being built in it’s place. Does this mean if they drain the subs we will have a semi-permanent construction wall around the lagoon for potentially several years or longer? What an eyesore if so. Maybe they can at least fill it in and put temporary additional seating for Tomorrowland Terrace. 😉

      • frollofan

        That’s a slippery slope. Just because the permanent closure of the Rocket Rods and 20KLUTS happened without notice doesn’t mean it will definitely happen this time.

      • Internitty

        Did anyone pay attention to the blatant shameless promotion of MyMagic+ on the Disneyland Christmas Day Parade TV special? It was sickening and when you consider they are throwing good money after bad into this project instead of investing in product that will actually draw people in it becomes even more sickening

    • ahecht

      Yeah, closing down the Subs right before another Nemo movie comes out would be almost as stupid as closing down the Country Bear Jamboree right before a Country Bears movie comes out about a greedy businessman wanting to tear down the Country Bear Jamboree… oh, wait…

  • indianajack

    I can’t say I’m upset about losing the subs. If we have to lose an e-ticket in Anaheim, this is easily the first choice to get the axe. My kids and I rode it once, and never rode it again. It just wasn’t a compelling story, the load and unload times were lengthy, and the digital projection effects were cheesy. I remember fondly the 20,000 Leagues subs from my childhood, but this Nemo version truly under-performed. I really wanted to like them but they disappointed on almost every level. The only thing I’ll miss is the kinetic energy of the subs circling the lagoon. Otherwise, I agree with the suits on this one, that if one big, expensive attraction had to be closed, then let the subs be the one.

  • airick75

    Bob Iger could pay for the operation of the subs with about a day’s salary or a day’s dividends from his stock options.

    Hey Micechat, could you get a like/dislike or thumbs up/thumbs down feature for your comments like many other websites have? It would add a fun dynamic to these sections.

    • TodAZ1

      “thumbs up” on your request. 🙂

  • ScottG

    Lets keep this in perspective. The closing of the subs isn’t sad news, it’s a sad rumor.

    • Due to the number of people aware of the closure, it’s really much more fact than rumor at this point. Rumor only in so far as Disney isn’t willing to confirm it yet. In part because the replacement plans (Star Wars) have been partially placed on hold. It does look like they are moving forward with the cosmetic Star Wars fix to the front of the land. But should they approve the budget for the rest of the project, the subs would need to go anyway.

      • stevek

        Nothing is truly a fact until it actually happens. It should probably be characterized as a highly substantiated rumor based on your contacts versus anything close to a fact.

    • notlemc

      According to Disney, the subs will be refurbished with “colorful, more vibrant underwater rockwork and coral.”

      According to MiceAge, the subs will be permanently shutdown without a refurbishment.

      Once the ride is drained we’ll be able to determine who is right and who is wrong by seeing if any changes are occurring in the lagoon area and if the rockwork and coral are being repainted. The Monorail platform is going to become a very popular observation deck.

  • TweedlDum9

    It just seems so silly. The Parks are PACKED. They aren’t losing money.
    The only thing I can think of is that, if plans for new things were cut or put on hold, will Disneyland management be playing a shell game with the Subs’ labor/maintenance/whatever money and using it to still move forward internally with at least one of those plans?
    That previous article talked about just how MUCH money was spent on the Magic Band scheme, and it was staggering. But to paralyze things at Disneyland as punishment?! Come on, bean counters…

  • daliseurat

    I hate the idea of the subs closing. It’s one of those things that only Disneyland has. It’s sad to see so many iconic experiences leave. One of the main reasons I choose Disneyland over WDW are some of these experiences. Subs, Matterhorn, Casey Junior, Storybookland, Alice in Wonderland, Indiana Jones, Monorail though the park, Mr. Toad, Pinnochio…these are why I come. If they take out the subs, there won;t be any subs anywhere and that will definitely give me pause when choosing a destination resort.

  • TweedlDum9

    Another thing that might have been cut: there was no Disney Parks float in the Rose Parade this year! What a silly decision… especially since the theme was “Dreams Come True”!

    • Many non-essential things are being cut right now as they try to recover some of the 1.5 billion they spent on MyMagic+.

      At the moment, most of those cuts are occurring behind the scenes through layoffs, consolidations, cancellation or delay of development projects, etc.

      While I would have LOVED to have seen them run a float in the Rose Parade, it probably didn’t make business sense this year.

      But I certainly agree that it would have been the perfect year theme-wise.

      • bfdf55

        Well, with the Public Storage float, I think the Rose Parade had a worthwhile replacement for anything Disney would have done.

  • DisneysPan46

    Everyone is looking at the downside of the Sub’s rumored closing, why not bring up your Disneyside and discuss what attractions could be put there instead?

    In my opinion, with the huge success of Frozen (I’ve seen it 4 times), why not put a Frozen inspired attraction there? An E-ticket ride perhaps. It would fit perfectly next to the Matterhorn! A mountainous winter ice land. I think it’s a pretty fantastic idea.

    What would you guys propose?

    • bfdf55

      Frozen wouldn’t work well in Tomorrowland or in a lagoon.

      • jacobeee

        If they were to make a land such as that, it would force them to remove Autopia also, which they wouldn’t be willing to do..

    • stevek

      If anything, Frozen would work in Fantasyland. Not in the sub lagoon but possibly where the old motorboat ride was. I think that should the subs and Autopia go away anytime soon, that space will be reserved for Tomorrowland.

  • jchamb268

    I for one will be sad to see the subs go, but I understand progress. Now if the lagoon sits for months upon months with nothing going on then that I would guess Paul Pressler is back running things.

    In-regards to the BLOG saying one thing and actually doing another is nothing new. If you do your research Disneyland would place signs up at the park or on bill boards that would advertise a ride or new attraction and it would never happen. Disneyland had a rather large sign advertising Liberty Square back in 1956 that it would open in 1959. Well, we all know how well that worked.

    So, I cant fault them for saying one thing and doing another, it is part of the culture.

  • amyuilani

    Forgive the pun, but why would you keep such a sub-par attraction around? I agree that the lagoon is pretty, but even I don’t want to ride the attraction when I go. It’s not engaging, it’s not entertaining, and it’s not worth the wait. I would love to see a coaster or something in that area where the water could be a thematic element of the story. However, I am just as ready to say goodbye now as I was back in 1998. No reason to hang around when the party is clearly over for you.

    • M69

      Ha! Love that pun!

  • M69

    Thanks for all the updates! I love this site and never commented before. I’ve felt compelled to begin interacting within the happiest place in cyberspace for quite some time, and must admit it was the updates late last year about Monstropolis and Tomorrowland that forced my hand to re-think my status as mere observer:
    The magic of Disney suffers incredibly when accounting trumps imagineering.

    That said, I have great memories of the subs as a child (the bubbles on the dive were incredibly convincing in 1975 at age 6). However, in 2012, I found the Nemo version incredibly long and boring – as did my young nephews and family members. I love the sub lagoon, find it much more impressive as an attraction, even one I do not care to ride, than being left in “refurbishment” limbo. I hope Disney decides to use the space magnificently again one day and surprise myself to write that if some Pixie Dust settled into this section of the park, I am more than open to it. Refurb Limbo is not Pixie Dust.

    Cannot wait for BTMRR to return! I hope the bats in the initial section got an update. The rest is perfection.

    Yay! Clean Space Mountain!

    Happy New Year, Everyone!
    So nice to be here!

    • DobbysCloset

      I agree with everything you said about your memories of the ride,Nemo overlay, lagoon. I turned 6 in 1961; I can remember childhood arguments with my brother about whether the subs really completely submerged (He won.)

    • tututiara

      It’s great that you are first commenting now, as am I on this post. I love the site and agree with your comments. Happy New Year

  • DisWedWay

    Hope the Big Thunder paint Team doesn’t forget to age out those shiny galvanized carriage bolts on the wood spike pole security fence which originated at EDL Big Thunder. They would have been rusty black iron back in 1880. Also the gas station down lights at the front gate sign still need to be removed and the original Dietz Inspector lanterns put back as at the Golden Horseshoe overhead sign of the same period. They are OK in DCA at the River Rafting Ride which is more contemporary. Over 30,000 credited hours of observation.

  • Freddie Freelance

    I know nothing is going to happen until MyMagic+ stops hemorrhaging money, but I think I’d like to see Nemo resurrected as a dark ride in the space that used to be the boat dock, using some of the current Nemo ride building and some of the current Autopia track space on the Fantasyland side to contain the ride building.

  • flayrah

    Contacted Knott’s (via email to guest relations: [email protected]) and received a very nice and prompt reply. It certainly sounds like bringing Kirk and the Billies back for special events or even regular schedule is being considered. If you want to see Kirk and the show at Knott’s please let them know!

    With the closures/cancellations/crowds at Disney, there’s less and less reason for us to go.

    • Freddie Freelance

      Add the fact an annual pass to Knotts can cost less than a one day one park Disneyland ticket, care & attention being paid to and beautiful renovations being done all over Knotts, recent upgrades done to and more upgrades planned for Knotts, and four final words: Mrs. Knotts Chicken Dinner.

    • stevek

      We had passes for the last year at Knott’s and quite honestly, didn’t enjoy it enough to renew. And this is coming from someone who had far more Knott’s memories as a kid than Disneyland. Unfortunately, it doesn’t hold the same charm for me anymore though parts of it are still fantastic i.e. Ghost Town/Calico Mine/Log Ride. Consequently, we decided to go back and get Disneyland AP’s in 2014. At the end of the day, it’s all about personal preference and even for significantly more money, we get significantly more enjoyment from Disneyland/DCA.

  • danielz6

    Anyone find it odd that btm wasn’t repainted like Matterhorns refurb? Seems a little dull to me and with over a year of refurbishment you’d thtink they’d take the time to do it.
    I don’t mind losing the subs, but what I can’t stand is Disneyland losing its charm and uniqueness. The lagoon is definitively a part of that. We’ve already lost court of angels this year, and thats the main reason why I don’t plan on renewing my AP for a few years. Whatever they do put there better be more than popcorn carts, meet n greets or dvc kiosks, and it better not sit empty for years like the people mover track has.
    On a positive not on my last Disneyland 2 day trip, I was very impressed with carthay circle restaurant. Which is a nice compliment to Blue bayou next door. Also the Starbucks inclusion on mainstreet was tasetefully done.

    • stevek

      I thought that BTM was repainted? Maybe that happened early on and it’s faded a bit? I could be mistaken though.

  • Dizzey

    The subs closing is a tough conundrum. I love the nostalgia of it (it’s one ride I remember from my first trip to D-Land when I was 4 years old… 50 years ago!). I like the cool concept of an underwater ride and like looking across the lagoon through the water on a bright, sunny day. I like looking for the various “Easter Eggs” that one finds when looking carefully. But I also wouldn’t mind if there were another “people eater” attraction that one could ride on the busiest days. Perhaps that would help diffuse some of the crowds in Tomorrowland.

    In that light I accept the challenge laid down by DisneysPan46 above… Since Frozen was based in a seafaring region, how about a new high capacity boat ride? We could load the boats like Small World, take a tour of the seaside portion of the town through the “outdoor section” of the lagoon, maybe in and around docks, ships, etc., then ride into the dark spaces where we would enter the queen’s frozen castle. Could be made quite beautiful…

  • Indy Fan 1

    The Subs are NOT closing. FACT.

    • billyjobobb

      if they aren’t, they should.

    • Freddie Freelance

      No, the fact is the Subs are closing, the subs themselves will be mothballed and the lagoon drained. This is an absolute fact, Disneyland has been reporting this for months and you can check the planned renovations & closures on the Disneyland website to verify this. This is supposedly being done for a longterm renovation, much like what occurred with the Matterhorn and BTMRR, but the fact is Disneyland is not going to start any renovations for months or longer because there is no money to perform the renovations because of MyMagic+.

      The AstroOrbiter is also supposed to shut down, eventually, as part of the cosmetic “Reskinning” of Tomorrowland as Star Wars-land, but the part of the move where the AstroOrbiter is put back together has been put on hold, so the ride will be disassembled, cleaned, and mothballed for months or even years since it is a slow loading low capacity ride that often suffers partial break downs (the top stops rotating for years at a time).

      In both examples there are stated plans why the rides will be closed for some time, the Subs because it’s time for a well needed cleaning and the batteries need upgrading, the AstroOrbiter because it needs the top fixed again and there are plans to move the ride, but because they are both expensive, high maintenance, slow loading, and low capacity rides that cost more than the park recoups in rider experience they won’t have a reopening date once they’re closed.

  • Sifferz

    Even if they nix the subs, I just hope that lagoon stays… looking at the matterhorn across the lagoon at dusk is one of the most beautiful sights in the entire park

  • tooncity

    Disney Corporate hasn’t built anything of any significance IN Disneyland in 20 years. NOTHING. We have lots of closed attractions that sit empty or are put to ridiculous re-use. America Sings, Skyway, Rocket Jets, People Mover, Mission to Mars, Fort Wilderness, Tom’s Tree House, Keel Boats. Not to mention the sad state of broken attractions, i.e. Alice in Wonderland, that place looks great. Disney is so out of touch that they’re now updating old outdated attractions with the previous outdated old attraction, i.e. Honey I shrunk the Kids back to the pederast Captain EO. That’s absurd!
    All intimate corners of the park must be ELIMINATED and turned into profit centers i.e. Angel’s Court, the Disney Gallery above Pirates; now a private club entrance and a Hotel Room. Those pesky tourist don’t deserve it, they’re not paying enough for the right to spend money in the overpriced restaurants and trinket shops.
    Yet, people keep coming and wasting their money on $100 day passes to get on 5 rides during Christmas. Stop going people, they’re just taking your money while they amortized money spent on crummy, failed concepts i.e. Winnie the Pooh, the New Tomorrowland, cheesy Princessland, Tarzan Tree house and Magic Bands which Disneylanders are paying for, yet it’s at WDW. But that magical Jingle Cruise Christmas overlay was just mind blowing, that’s worth an up-charge, for the Wal-mart Santa hats, placed on the garden Nome-like figures. Hey, but the park needs a Starbucks, we can move mountain for a coffee shop! How long will it be before they conscript the main street horses into working the turnstiles at the main gate!
    Gotta, close an attraction in a park that is in desperate need of attractions. Nemo Subs are an old, outdated boring attraction. But why can’t they just FIX, rebuild repurpose Older closed space into useable attractions, then go after rides like Subs???
    Disney Consumers, you are living in the past. Stop going out of loyalty, Disney isn’t showing you any loyalty at all. They’re taking advantage of your need to re-live a childhood. Don’t renew your annual pass. When the numbers turn south, they’ll rebuild the park and double the space for attendees. You’ll get great parking and actual value for money spent.
    Yes, I know I’m going to get slammed, here. But we all know it’s true. Instead of everybody complaining about it, do something about it. Just don’t go!
    Oh, I gave up my pass in 2006, after 12 years. Nothing new here folks, keep moving.

    • Edward Allen

      tooncity, you are my hero. Everything you said is correct. Corporate only thinks about money, money, MONEY!!!!!

      Yeah, Walt was a dreamer – not a natural financial wiz. But somehow he dreamed the dreams, his staff made them happen and the park thrived. What the hell happened? The current greedy management SOBs charge enough and make enough dough to do so much but do so little. So I have taken tooncity’s advice and will not be going anytime soon. .

    • skoolpsyk

      I’m with you; Court of Angels was the last straw. We are NOT renewing…

  • pattimarie

    The one thing we all seem to agree on is keeping the lagoon.

    Bodies of water do so many things—open up space, break up the boring and confining feel of concrete, make the park seem real, add negative ionization-which lifts moods, and they just look beautiful!

    I’m all for keeping the lagoon and using it for something else. A Frozen theme sounds good—and remember, there’s more water space available that used to be part of the motorboat ride. Or somehow meld the lagoon into any Star Wars themed ride or experiences they are planning.

    Maybe we should start a pre-emptive petition to keep the lagoon open at least. I know they haven’t announced that it’s going anywhere—but I’m worried given all the questionable decisions they’ve made lately. I don’t even want to see it drained for a year if they’re really not refurbing the subs.

  • nish221

    I would be sad to see the Subs go. I actually have written Nemo many times (waited in that >3 hr wait the first weekend) and I like the ride (although I would have much preferred an updated version or even a 20kLutS version). It used to be a must-ride when my kids were younger, but I still ride it occasionally. I think it would be weird to spend good money to demolish it when a sequel is about to come out. (esp. when finances are tight).

    My guess though is that both news aren’t exclusive: Nemo is coming back after a l-o-n-g (time-wise) “refurb” (if the sequel is sufficiently popular). They might even touch up the video portions. If the sequel isn’t popular, it isn’t coming back. Even at 800/hour, DL simply need that ride capacity. But ultimately, I think (if the funds are there) that once Star Wars land is approved, it’s gone.

    When it is replaced, I would hope that it’s somehow kept in TL instead of being annexed to FL (I would love a Frozen ride as well, but not here). We could see a Naboo based land here. That would preserve some of the lagoon.

    I claim no inside knowledge at all…. just what I would do. 🙂

    • wendygirl1979

      You make a very good point. As it stands now, the subs are themed to a decade old movie and a unproven sequel could tip the scales between a ‘refurb’ and a refurb, so go see Finding Dory, I guess?
      I remember riding WDW’s subs only once, but my mom says we went on it all 3 times that we visited. Hearing that Disneyland still had theirs made her want to visit soon. Whoops…

  • nish221

    Oh, my… “written” => “ridden” Sorry about that…!

  • Disneylandguest

    The subs are going to reopen. I’m calling it right now.

    Micechat loves to stir the pot by spewing rumors and speculation, and sensationalizing everything. This is a fact.

    The phrase “according to our sources” is used WAY TOO MUCH on the Internet these days. Just because a website claims that they have “sources” doesn’t necessarily mean that it’s true, (or that the “sources” are trustworthy.)

    I have no idea why these Micechat updates appear in google news searches.

    Generally speaking, I will usually trust Disneyparks blog, because at the very least, Disneyparks blog only reports OFFICIAL information, not rumors or speculation. (and unlike Micechat, they don’t have an ax to grind.)

    Right now, the parks blog claims that the subs will reopen. There is currently no reason to think anything else at this point.

    By the way, for those of you saying that the Nemo sub ride are claustrophobic. News flash; the were like that in the ’50s as well. When the subs reopened in 2007, they even put up signs warning people that they should not ride if they are made uncomfortable by “inclosed dark spaces”.

    • Disneylandguest

      …I apologize for my grammar errors, I meant; “for those of you saying that the Nemo sub ride is claustrophobic. News flash; they were like that in the ’50s as well.”

      • DobbysCloset

        I wasn’t an adult in the 50’s so I can’t testify to claustrophobia — my problem was always being tall enough to see out the porthole.

        Now, though, what with huge people and stinky babies elbow-to-elbow on tiny seats, one would think that for many the experience stops being enjoyable before the sub leaves the dock.

  • Disneylandguest

    It should also be noted that since it launched in 2009, the DisneyParks blog has NEVER lied or covered-up something. Typically, they will just state facts, and in the event that plans change, they will give an update and say “something has changed.”

    In the past, when an attraction closes forever, the DisneyParks blog has said, “the attraction is closing.” (and they will often receive comments from disappointed readers.)

    As of right now, it seems that the plan is to refurbish the subs, and they are currently scheduled to reopen in late 2014. IF plans do change, then they will be upfront about it.

  • sean317

    I’m sorry to say, but I just do not think that Disney would do a “fake refurbishment” anymore. I’m not sure of when the last “fake” closing of a ride was, but in today’s day & age, it would be very hard to “fake” a refurbishment, I would think. I would hope that Disney would give the subs a proper “retirement party”, if they were going to close it for good.

    • amyuilani

      I was a Cast Member when Light Magic was running. I specifically remember a notice posted backstage that read “Light Magic going down for rehab, relaunching in 2000.” Obviously the summer of 2000 came and went without a peep of that show again. In fact, not long after that notice, the floats had been completely stripped and the effects installed at FLT and other places. So whether we think the company bold-faced lies to us or says something with well-meaning intentions that never pan out, it’s a lie nonetheless.

      • stevek

        My gut tells me that they truly planned on re-imagining Light Magic but realized that it was a disaster that could not be saved. Not necessarily a lie but a change of plans and likely has happened many times.

  • biggsworth

    Nice article. as always I take the wait and see approach. They could very well want to open them again but in the end if some spreadsheet somewhere shows the right person how much money they saved by not running them I wouldn’t be surprised to see the subs stay closed. Guess we will find out in 8 months since they never lie about the length of refurbishments right?

  • animatronic

    Thanks for the update.

    I am upset about the likely demise of Nemo. I was happy to see the subs reintroduced because it is such a unique thing that separates Disneyland from other places. True, the 20,000 leagues version is likely better, but at least we had subs!

    To just close it with no identified replacement is what sucks. I mean – look at the state of Tomorrowland and that lagoon section. Old car ride that is not futuristic in the least, an empty building that now has Thor and Ironman for whatever reason, and the empty tracks of the peoplemover rot above. It just another empty something left empty. That’s what sucks.

    It’s sad.

  • billyjobobb

    In corporate thought, why do anything when you plan to redo it in the next few years.

    If they could get the new Star Wars movies out quicker, they’d work on it faster, but why open star wars land and have the movies hit at different times? Why not go for a huge media blitz for both together? If the space has to sit there all pathetic in the mean time, who cares?

  • bkroz

    What’s incredible is how effective Tokyo’s 20,000 Leagues is as both a classic dark ride, a Jules Verne tale, and a “submarine” ride. Too bad Tomorrowland ’98 was a “surface only” renovation. If the land’s content had received a European fantasy overlay, a version of Tokyo’s ride could’ve debuted in California.

    • amyuilani

      Some parts of the new Tomorrowland didn’t pan out (Rocket Rods), while others were just ill-advised (let’s put the Rocket Jets on the ground! At the entrance of the land! Brilliant!).

  • jasmineray

    I’ll believe it when I see it, in regards to the Subs. It isn’t considered a fact until we have significant proof.

    Finally Space gets a cleaning!

  • Polo33

    First Disney parks around the world are extremely profitable !! They never lose money at the parks. Disneyland is in great need of a modern-day eTicket attraction and the footprint of the finding Nemo subs and tomorrowland race track would be perfect for an ultra modern thrill ride ala Disney style. Walt insisted that the park continue to improve which in many ways it has however it does need a thrill ride that would really excited today’s youth as well as adults. I would love to see a new modern Matterhorn – size of the current one double-speed and thrills that would be awesome. I would also convert the slow boring polluting tomorrowland razors into something more along the lines of a Star Wars speed pod race. Perhaps using the ultra high-tech electromagnetic system!!

    The current submarine ride absolutely looks beautiful but I think a redesigned reengineered Matterhorn double to triple the size amazing speed amazing technology will just be a jaw-dropping.

    • tututiara

      In my opinion though, I don’t think that location is best for a roller coaster because of the fact that Nemo is located between two roller coasters already. The idea of another roller coaster is smart, but I think they could utilize the Tomorrowland space a little more to be themed to the idea of the future.

  • Scarlet Spanky

    Regarding the DLRR: Sure the Disney $$$ guys aren’t as concerned with Walt’s original visions as fans & DL purists are, but Walt’s love of trains and that inspiration for DL is as close to sacrosanct as anything in the park excepting Mickey himself!
    Besides that, as someone else pointed out, it is continually moving people throughout the park, and helping to alleviate congestion. Personally, I wish they would put something like the DLRR in DCA!
    Regarding the subs: like some others, I think I like the IDEA of the subs being there more than the actual physical sub ride itself … But the lagoon!
    The lagoon, with it’s waterfalls (& the “mine, mine, mine” gulls) being permanently drained would really be a loss.

  • bespinally

    They look nice and it is a great part of the park but I dont really care much about the sub ride. What I do care about is the limited capacity at peak seasons and this would only make it worse. I was just there for a 3 day park hopper trip, and I barely got to get on 20 rides in the 3 days. It was extremely disappointing and a horribly crowded frustrating experience. Now that I have seen all the updates including cars land, world of color and little mermaid, I have absolutely no reason to return. Until they build a Star Wars land somewhere, or a third park, I will not return. It was too frustrating to miss out on so many of my favorite rides because it was impossible to move around and the rides kept breaking when I was trying to get a fast pass, fast passes were gone by 2 o clock, and I had more money to spend but was too frustrated to waste time in a 30 minute line to buy souvenirs and gifts.

    People were plowing each other over on News years eve and January 2nd when I was in the park. My friend from Hawaii and myself (also from Hawaii) both had the same experience where someone knocked into our daughters and made them cry and didnt even stop to say sorry. Granted this rude behavior is not Disney’s fault, but it is a result of a disregard for guest experience and cramming in as many people as possible for a lackluster experience. I see the dilemma of building more rides for peak season that will then cost more money to operate during slow season, but I can no longer tolerate their disregard for my hard earned experience/$$$$.

    I expect to see an expansion on the DCA 2.0 level, or I have lost interest. Sorry Disney, you lost me this time. I still like it, but they don’t care enough to make it a good experience.

  • Polo33

    John Lassiter is the lead executive of this type of ” creative” process for the parks and he did an amazing job with the DCA redo. In the scope of what they did at DCA PLEASE John do the same for Magic Kingdom. Making improvements is NOT taking away from the rich heritage at all. #1= New Matterhorm that would incorporate beautiful waterfalls and lake effects- #2- new racing ride replacing the Tommorowland racers with a ultra high tech electromagnatic system or something else that is a modern day thrilling and fast ( much faster then raditor springs racers) ride and the big #3 – beef up Sleeping Beauty Castle. Walt even has said ” we should have made it bigger”. It needs a little tweaking to make it bigger but you can do with the current structure incorporated, Needs a nice restaruanut too.

    If Disneyland and the Empire State Building can all be built in 1 year with NO computer aided design then this expansion can all be done inside a year.. John, get it done !!!

  • Polo33

    One more comment. To Bob Gurr the genius who helped create the Matterhorn. Your design is stunning and to me one of the most beautiful centerpieces in all Disneyland. My suggestion is to take what you did so brillantly back in the 1950’s and make it at least double the size and make it a high speed coaster with all the tech availble today. using both indoor (daytime) effects ( think indoor vistas of the Swiss mountainside) as well as outdoor effects. faster, smoother, BIG DROPS etc. A true eticket attraction for 2016.. !!!

    🙂

    • stevek

      I can’t see them changing the matterhorn as you have described. Double the size would completely ruin the scale and cost millions of dollars for an change to something that is incredibly popular even today. Investment, beyond standard rehabs, will almost certainly be around bringing new adventures to the resort…like Star Wars.

  • fnord

    Polo33, in my opinion as someone who first visited Disneyland 50 years ago and has
    watched it evolve since, I think all of your ideas would lead the park farther from
    Disney’s vision than it has already come. So, no thank you.

  • Polo33

    Fnord, how so ?? It’s modernizing what Walt built and always wanted to evolve abd make better. Those are Walt Disneys words not mine. To the other posters points at $100 per ticket you have to keep the park fresh.

  • Jeffrey Clinard

    The subs seem to hit the unholy trinity of issues: the throughput sucks, the cost to maintain is high, and the ride takes up a huge amount of real estate. It’s not quite like Great Moments with Mr. Lincoln; I go there every time I visit and it plays to a handful of people, but at least it’s pretty cheap and doesn’t take up much space. Since space is at a premium at Disneyland, somebody has to have run the numbers and seen that it is one of the worst performers on the scale of passengers per square foot per hour.

    The subs generally under-perform from the guest experience as well; the line is usually long, the ride takes quite a bit of time, and it isn’t all that exciting. On the scale of value, it’s low; you don’t get much for your investment of time.

    Disney needs to do better. Maybe closing the subs to save money until they have the RIGHT idea is the solution. There is no point in tossing money around for another expensive failure like Rocket Rods or Lite Magic.

  • Mushu mama

    I was unable to ride the subs on my last visit due to time restrictions and its sad to think I won’t be able to ride on my upcoming trip in the next month due to the refub and therefore might have missed my last chance ride if the rumors pan out . I always enjoyed the ride, and would be sad to see it go. The though of a larger/extended Matterhorn leaves me cold – I really don’t like that ride and have only ridden it in the past to placate my travel mates. The idea that was suggested earlier in the comments about a Frozen attraction has merit in my eyes, maybe not in the Tomorrowland theme, but certainly ties in with the Matterhorn part of the world theme. Perhaps if it were an inside ride that began in summer and progressed through blizzards and Elsa’s castle and ending in summer again would be amazing – and the bit I think that would make it magic is to use the same technology of Pooh’s Hunny Hunt in the Tokyo park which is hands down the best Disney ride experience I’ve had. And I’m not a Pooh fan per se. The individual vehicle orientation and separate movements of each vehicle would make each ride unique and could certainly showcase the Nordic theme with sudden blizzards ( like the windy day part of the TDL ride) and perhaps even the ‘smell-a-vision’ effect with a Troll room. The ride vehicle could be the sleds that feature in the movie. Just a thought, but if they have to remove the subs, then I hope they put something unique in its place rather than a rehashed or extended already existing attraction. I don’t want to pay top dollar for rehashed.

  • Polo33

    We need the modern day WED imigneeers to think up something amazing if they truly are closing the sub ride. For all we know this could be just a refurb to tie into the Finding Nemo sequal Finding Dori ? In any event, I stand by my recommendations that the one and only orignal Magic Kingdom should have a couple of brand new ultra modern eticket attractions… that Walt would be proud of..

    • stevek

      Nobody disagrees that they need to add e-tickets and trust me, there are plenty of fantastic ideas out there that will never see the light of day. Unfortunately, Walt’s not around and being a much different company now things don’t happen as easily as they might have in Walt’s day. I think we are past the point of great original attractions, not themed to an intellectual property for Disneyland. It is a shame as Hong Kong and Tokyo are great examples of what can be done when you build something unique like Mystic Manor or Grizzly Mountain. Heck, even DCA had some unique and cool new offerings when first built.

  • johnarodz67

    I think the subs will close for good, which will prepare people for the eventual Autopia closure sooner than later. A lot of room in that area for new attractions. The Innoventions building will be torn down too I believe. I think the money people at Disney will hear the fan base loud and clear about Disneyland. This is a new world; internet, fan pages,podcasts, and social media. Tomorrowland has been dead for years and I think they will gut everything except Space Mountain and Star Tours. Star Wars land will be approved, because as we all know, “If you build it they will come”, and they will spend LOTS of money for years to come.
    Hopefully, the powers that be will also FINALLY do something with the Jingle, Hunchback, Bar B Q, ranch area. Lot of room for a nice attraction or two; call me I have a few ideas. 🙂

  • ZedIzDead

    Sorry. I don’t buy it. In today’s age of social media there is no reason for the Disney Parks Blog to “lie” about this. They could have kept quiet about Billy Hill, Court of Angles, and Carnation Plaza gardens. But they didn’t and they were up front about it. If the Subs were to close for good I think they would just say it. There is no reason to lie about it.

    Last Year. Mice Chat was pretty sure that Disneyland Christmas Season would have a hard ticketed event. And that Christmas in 2012 was the last normal Christmas season. Didn’t happen.

    If I’m wrong then I will be happy to be wrong. I would much prefer the subs to be gone although I would miss the lagoon.

  • Polo33

    While there will never be another Walt Disney I do think the Disney brass has done an outstanding job of operating the parks. The fact that Bob Iger greenlighted more money to ” redo” DCA then it cost to build in the first place is a perfect example. Now, while the Magic Kingdom is “hallowed ground” it is time NOT for a complete park redo like DCA but just to get rid of some of the older attractions that our outdated and ” boring” for 2014. They can build something amazing. They have the room in the park and the history of closing and redoing attractions…even when Walt was alive !

    The challange to the Disney brass ( Mr Lassiter & Igar) is to do all the changes within a short time ( no 5 years ). 2 years max for 3 new eticket attractions.. Lets go boys ! 🙂

  • fnord

    What with the major refurb coming to alice, maybe that’s the place to create a
    Frozen attraction. Alice was a somewhat lame release originally, with little emotional
    impact, and lame compared to the book. Frozen is lame compared to the original
    story, but it at least reaches an emotional climax, and has made an s-load of money.
    Tear down the problematic outdoor portion of the old ride, extend the castle, and
    you would havea large footprint for a classic Disney dark ride.
    I loved the original Alice ride, and appreciated the 83 refurb, but right next to the
    Matterhorn would be a perfect fit.
    And as Polo33 pointed out, they might be revamping the subs to include the new
    Dory movie, which I think would be smart.

  • fnord

    Princess lovers would love a Frozen ride. Alice was hardly a princess!;-)

  • tututiara

    Is anybody else very confused about what will actually happen? Everything is so up in the air. I just want to know the fate of the ride and what will happen to it if closed. I very much enjoy the subs and was upset when I first heard the rumor of closure, but now I just want a decision.

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