Today’s MiceAge Update brings you the latest from the halls of Imagineering and Team Disney Anaheim, where some big-ish projects are in the works. After a pleasant summer season with manageable crowds of tourists spread evenly between the two parks, the Disneyland Resort crashes into late August this week with the return of over 500,000 SoCal and SoCal Select Annual Passholders who have been blocked out since June. That will make this the busiest week of the summer by far, and the Resort’s parking infrastructure will be stretched to the breaking point while the parks suddenly crawl with huge crowds of locals. While the front line Anaheim CM’s struggle to keep up this week, we’ll fill you in on what their TDA bosses have been working feverishly on this summer. Namely, the plans to get the Resort ready for the 60th Diamond Celebration and beyond, with some surprising new twists.

Red Scare

In order to fully comprehend the Anaheim news, it’s important to understand what’s been happening on the other side of the Pacific Ocean. The construction of Shanghai Disneyland is well underway, as the structural steel for the massive show buildings grow from former bean fields. Unfortunately, the entire Shanghai Disneyland project has been struggling with massive delays and setbacks for over a year now. The problems stem from the slow and questionable workmanship of the Chinese contractors and the mountains of red tape (no pun intended) the local bureaucrats keep throwing at any request or proposal from Imagineering. There are many business books already written about the pratfalls of doing business in Communist China, but when the park is finally complete there could be one doozy of a bestseller written about the construction of Shanghai Disneyland, and we’ll just leave it at that.

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The result of the growing mess in Shanghai is that the timetable for opening the park hasn’t just slipped, but now appears to be in general freefall. The biggest hint of this growing problem was in Bob Iger’s comments to the investor community in the most recent quarterly earnings report. After some scripted cheese where Bob declared they were “thrilled” with how the Shanghai park is coming along, he buried the real lead when he said; “We hope to set an official date for our grand opening sometime within the next six months or so.” Before that comment, Disney had still been sticking with the internal November, 2015 opening date or “late 2015” phrase they’d released publicly several years ago. But Imagineering troops in Shanghai now realize there is absolutely no way a late 2015 or early 2016 opening will be possible.

Instead, the park’s opening has slipped until April, 2016 at the earliest, and Summer 2016 is not impossible. More and more Disney personnel are being assigned to the project and moved from Burbank, Glendale and Anaheim in an attempt to be able to hit the ground running once the construction is complete, but that’s currently only adding to the costs. Burbank and Imagineering planners are also coming up with contingency plans for opening in phases, where the Downtown Disney and two hotels open ahead of the park, while the park itself goes through a phased opening throughout 2016 where not all lands and certainly not all the E Tickets will be up and running on the delayed opening day, whenever that may be.

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These Shanghai delays are wreaking havoc with Burbank’s fiscal planning calendars for 2015 and beyond, and they have already forced hundreds of millions of dollars in additional funds to be budgeted for the project. It’s a mess over there folks, and it’s going to have some major impacts on the parks here at home.

A Land Not Too Far Away

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Most noticeably, the major capital investments planned for Disneyland and DCA beyond the 60th are in limbo right now while Burbank accountants try to get a handle on just how much extra they’ll have to shell out in Shanghai the next two years. The plan to infuse Tomorrowland with new Star Wars attractions was already sidetracked last year by huge problems and cost overruns with the MyMagic+ program at Walt Disney World. The sudden delay on the Tomorrowland Star Wars project, which was very close to being announced publicly, allowed Imagineering to regroup and go in for an even more ambitious plan it continues to work on for Anaheim. The new plan that has risen from Tomorrowland’s ashes has Star Wars landing in Disneyland in a much different location, with a new proposal to take over the Big Thunder Ranch and Mickey’s Toontown.

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The plans for Anaheim that WDI is currently mocking up in their dedicated Star Wars design studio now have an entirely new land being tacked on to the north of Frontierland and Fantasyland. The new Star Wars expansion would be accessed via the western flanks of Fantasyland beyond the old Skyway station, taking over the Big Thunder Ranch area and extending to the north beyond the railroad tracks. Where Toontown is now would be more expansion and a large show building, not unlike New Orleans Square with the show buildings for Haunted Mansion and Pirates of the Caribbean stashed unseen behind it. It’s this show building on the Toontown plot where the bulk of the Star Wars E Ticket and some other indoor environments would reside.

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Yes, this means Toontown would go away completely if this concept gets approval. The Roger Rabbit dark ride and Gadget’s Go Coaster would both go to Yesterland, while the popular Mickey and Minnie meet n’ greets would slot into a new facility elsewhere. The smart money is that Mickey and Minnie would take over the Disneyland Opera House, using the interactive talking character technology WDI had previewed in Toontown several years ago.

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While it has yet to be given the green light, Tom Staggs has told WDI to continue working the Star Wars designs towards the goal of using Toontown instead of Tomorrowland, and TDA is complying by bringing the Submarines back out of mothballs after they sat untouched for the first five months of its nine month “refurbishment”. After its light cosmetic and vehicle refurbishment, the biggest problem for the Submarines now is how TDA’s Public Affairs department will carefully word the talking points on why Disneyland will be filling up the 9 million gallon submarine lagoon (that still leaks) in the middle of California’s epic drought.

How Marvel-Ous!

Disney California Adventure is not without its own E Ticket proposal that’s quickly gaining favor with Burbank execs. While Star Wars is slated for Disneyland, DCA’s future now lies with the popular Marvel franchises. We’d told you in the past that a Marvel Studios extension of the Hollywoodland section of the park was being pushed by WDI and Burbank, allowing the various Marvel stars to appear in a slightly more relevant and permanent environment than their current Innoventions digs. Now that plan has an E Ticket to go along with the meet n’ greets, in a proposal to put a Marvel themed version of Rock N’ Roller Coaster tucked into the parking lot currently between Tower of Terror and Luigi’s Flying Tires.

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The proposal for a Marvel thrill coaster takes the concept of the Monsters Inc. door coaster still sitting on the back burner for DCA, and dials it up several notches. Where the Monsters Inc. coaster is proposed as a “family coaster” with a 38” or 40” height requirement, the Marvel coaster would be much more intense and have a 48” height requirement, the same as California Screamin’. TDA’s research teams have bolstered the WDI proposal with plenty of fresh data showing that a thrill ride aimed at school aged boys and their fathers is exactly what’s needed to give Anaheim’s roster of attractions a boost with that important demographic. The new expansion would open in two phases, with the Marvel meet ‘n greet facilities opening first just after the 60th while the coaster finishes construction in the parking lot beyond.

Even without the Shanghai headaches throwing the budgets and calendars into limbo, there likely won’t be a peep from Disney about Anaheim’s Star Wars or Marvel plans until next summer at the D23 Expo. The media focus instead will be on launching and promoting the 60th Diamond Celebration. TDA will be using the old playbook from the 50th for much of the preparations for the 60th, and that means lots of refurbishments and painting for the next eight months.

The good news is that Disneyland already looks dramatically better today than it did just prior to the 50th, after the infamous years under leadership by Paul Pressler and Cynthia Harriss. And while plenty of paint and freshening is also coming to DCA, that park still sparkles after its 1.2 Billion dollar expansion and continuing upkeep. The work out front on the Main Entrance turnstiles was the first project under this master plan, and the painters tarps will literally spread into and throughout the park this fall once the Main Entrance refurbishment is finished. The Main Entrance work is also another sign that the troubled MyMagic+ system with all its “touch points” and convoluted rules and 60 day advance bookings for a teacup won’t be coming to Anaheim any time soon.

Main Street Bypass

Meanwhile, backstage, work continues on the new crowd control alleyways being built behind both sides of Main Street USA. These new alleyways will be pressed into use throughout the day during the 60th, as TDA’s entertainment team plans for multiple new parades and a lavish new fireworks show. It’s that one-two punch of a new night parade and a massive new fireworks show that will put the alleys into the heaviest use, as Disneyland’s crowd control team will need all the help they can get herding the crowds from Fantasmic! to the night parade to the new fireworks back to a second Fantasmic! and a second showing of the night parade.

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Interestingly, DLR President Michael Colglazier and his executive committee keep boasting internally that the 60th will have more meat and more offerings than the 50th. The narrative for these execs, many of whom weren’t in Anaheim during the 50th, is that the Golden Anniversary was mostly about freshening up an aging Disneyland and righting the past wrongs of disgraced former executives. They feel their 60th roster of entertainment, dark ride upgrades, and retro-nostalgia offers more tangible offerings than the 50th, but when you consider the 50th added two big new parades, jaw-dropping new fireworks, a reworked Space Mountain and an all-new Buzz Lightyear ride, plus lots of swanky décor, the 60th plans seem more modest in scope. At least they are trying to go as big as they can for the 60th, but the fuzzy memories and revisionist history of the current execs have some old-timers in TDA scratching their heads. The Anaheim old timers are looking forward to seeing the Christmas star return on top of the Matterhorn next year, however.

Chilly Reception

A small media event is planned to give more information about all the new entertainment and offerings coming for the 60th, including the upgrades coming to Fantasyland’s dark rides, the HD conversion and plussing of Soarin’ Over California, and a winter closure and major rework for World of Color. But the timing of that 60th media event still remains up in the air, due to a last minute push by Burbank to offer an all-new experience this holiday season.

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Taking a cue from the successful Frozen Summer Fun promotion they pulled together very quickly out at Walt Disney World, a new Frozen offering will be shoehorned into DCA for this Christmas season. Setting up in, you guessed it, the backlot area of DCA’s Hollywoodland, the characters from Frozen will be moving in for the holidays. An indoor ice rink and character meet n’ greet will be installed in Stage 17, while next door the Muppets will go on hiatus (again) and the MuppetVision theater will be repurposed for a small stage show and Frozen sing-along. Frozen décor and set pieces will be plopped down around these two venues and take over some of the existing Mad T Party facilities, and the existing Studio Store nearby will be turned into a Frozen merchandise headquarters. This will create a Frozen miniland of sorts in DCA, and should help take the pressure off the Frozen frenzy currently found in Fantasyland.

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Disney knows it can only give the media so much information at a time, so they are still trying to strategize when they announce the Frozen holiday miniland and then follow that up with a 60th media preview. What’s unfortunate is that 15 years ago a major animated motion picture like Frozen would have had parade floats and seasonal offerings planned to go into the parks the week before the movie opened in theaters, but last winter the Frozen craze caught Disney’s theme park executives flat footed and totally unprepared. Merchandise shortages around the country and four hour lines for understaffed meet ‘n greets in the parks caused Disney to lose out on buckets of profits from that cultural phenomenon.

Whether or not the Frozen miniland in DCA this winter will be effective or only prove that Frozen has already jumped the shark is yet to be seen. It’s just a shame no one had the nerve or the funds to plan all of this a year ago when America was begging to buy Frozen merchandise and experiences.

Rainbow Connection

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One last thing. For those of you concerned the Muppets never get any respect from TDA, constantly being replaced by the latest 3-D preview or princess sing-along show, WDI is putting the finishing touches on a proposal to install an all new MuppetVision show into that theater. The original 1991 film, and it’s unfortunate plot device hinging on the annoying Waldo character, would be replaced with a tighter and shorter presentation that focuses only on the classic Muppets characters in a digital 3d format. If the new show gets the green light for installation by 2016, TDA will need to find another venue to use for appeasing the synergy gurus up at the Burbank studios.

 

Did today’s update have you reaching for the Star(Wars) or leave you Frozen? How do you feel about the Star Wars project making a move on Mickey? Are you happy to hear about the plussing of Marvel at Disneyland Resort? Do you find yourself cheering for the Muppets over Monsters? Let’s hear your opinions below. After all, Walt said it best, “Disneyland is your land . . . ”

If you enjoyed today’s update, please be sure to share with your friends on Facebook and Twitter and leave us a comment below.

 

 

  • thejonesman

    I hope they don’t get rid of Roger Rabbit’s Cartoon Spin, it is one of the best dark rides in the entire park with the best themed queue.

    • CaptainAction

      Maybe Iger and the boys could change Roger Rabbit animatronic characters out for Jar Jar Binks animatronic characters? Iger and his minions could change the name of the ride to, “Jar Jar’s Crazy Day on Planet Earth”.
      I’ll bet they just re theme the ride – that’s all they do anyway – re theme. This is right in their cheap wheelhouse.

      • Bfscott77

        How can you say Iger is cheap? He had the whole front entrance of DCA ripped apart and put back together to make Buena Vista Street, he greelit Carsland, and bought Pixar, Marvel and Lucasfilm. None of that was cheap by any means.

      • Erik Olson

        Several billion dollars in direct investment in the parks over less than five years (not including +) constitutes cheaping-out? The world must truly be askew?

      • Iger certainly isn’t cheap. He has spent a tremendous amount on the parks. Unfortunately, much of that money was wasted on MyMagic+ and Shanghai overruns. As a result, new attractions for the parks have been slowed. But overall spending is still at a very high level. In my opinion, Iger has been bold in his spending. Look at what he’s bought which Disney will benefit from for generations: Lucas Films, Muppets, Marvel, Pixar. The franchises which the company has developed and purchased will sustain and enrich Disney for a long, long time. I’m not thrilled with every decision the parks have made, but overall, Iger will go down in history as the CEO which expanded the company and positioned it to survive the shift to digital technology and changing consumer spending patterns.

      • danielz6

        Hahaha captain you seriously need to stop! This may be the most terrifying ride concept I’ve ever heard and if disney catches wind of this we will all suffer!

      • CaptainAction

        Iger isn’t cheap at WDW?
        I guess I just expect more than interactive ques with stupid games for 4 year olds of all ages.
        I expect more from Disney than themed restrooms.
        I expect more from Disney than one well themed Goofy Barnstormer ride in 3 years of construction.
        I expect more from Disney than revenue centers like restaurants and gift stores being built in mere months but not attractions.
        I expect more from Disney than not fixing the centerpiece of their signature ride for over 6 years and counting.
        I expect more from Disney than not completing an E Ticket attraction at Magic Kingdom in over 20 years.
        I expect more from Disney than the worst forced perspective at a theme park with Beast’s Castle and Rapunzel’s Tower, as 2 dollhouses completely embarrassing themselves.
        I expect more from Disney than ripping out attractions whenever they put in a new one like they are landlocked.
        These are my examples of cheap execs at WDW.

    • Internitty

      I really like Roger’s Cartoon Spin too, I’d be heartbroken to see it go, seems odd to get rid of it now(ish) with a new Roger Rabbit film in the works. Hopefully they will just move the ride.

      • MyFriendtheAtom

        Be prepared for what they’re about to do to all the FL Dark Rides….

      • heffalump

        I agree with being wary of the changes, but I thought they did an excellent job with Alice — if you forget about how long the construction took.

      • heffalump

        But, it would be unfortunate to lose Roger Rabbit; it is such a unique ride. Gadget’s coaster can go the way of the dinosaur for all I care.

      • redmars

        If they were smart, they’d move the set pieces and ride vehicles to the Monster’s Inc. show building. Isn’t it almost the same layout? As a fully realized land, ToonTown was always a bit lacking (primarily because it never visually tracked to the world that Mickey and friends lived in), but the Roger Rabbit ride would work in a Cartoon Corner of Hollywoodland.

      • solarnole

        I would trade it for long rumored muppet movie ride. The muppets are made to be amatronis

    • solarnole

      Iger has not done much for the fans besides giving them bands originally designed to track inmates in prisons. Disney got Cars land and Avatar land the themed lands that no one wanted or demanded.

      Cars land was built to sell toy cars and Avatar land is being built to woo James Cameron to jump ship to make his future movies with Disney after his Fox contract ends.

      It’s sad that the main focal point of new Fanastyland is a 500 seat restaurant along with three new bathrooms and the rides were just after thoughts that can’t handle the crowds. Disney is all about packing them in and giving them less.

      • redmars

        Ha, if you think Disney had trouble implemented RFID in it’s parks, just wait until you see the California Dept. of Corrections try to.

    • BC_DisneyGeek

      As much as I would miss that ride, Toontown takes up a lot of space for a land that offers only one attraction.

      I would have no problem with it being replaced with something that makes better use of the real estate.

      • TodAZ1

        Same here!

      • OriginalMousekteer

        I disagree, my friend. My nephews may be older than the ToonTown target, but believe me, for parents of small children, ToonTown is heaven. Same with Flick’s Fun Fair. And it depends on how you define “attraction”. Gadget’s Go Coaster is definitely an attraction (I love it). And for many, Mickey and Minnie’s meet and greets are major attractions.

        My major problem is what they’re going to do in Tomorrowland without Star Wars. Subs is dead two years after Finding Dory comes out. Placing Star Wars into the ToonTown/Big Thunder Ranch real estate makes absolutely no sense to me.

    • animatronic

      Maybe they can rellocate?

  • BrerJon

    If Toontown goes away and is replaced by an inferior, cheap Star Wars cash-in, it will be a shame, but if it’s replaced by an amazing, immersive, DisneySea level experience, then it will totally be worth it.

    As Diagon Alley replacing Jaws at Universal Orlando showed, you can close much loved classic attractions without too much fan concern as long as you replace them with something even bigger and better. We all love Roger Rabbit, but if Star Wars land is as amazing as it could be, then it will be OK for him to move on to the great Toontown in the sky.

    The Frozen stuff sounds good for DCA, it’s working wonders at DHS and releases that pressure valve without mutilating an existing attraction (as they’re doing with Maelstrom), but I facepalm at them adding a Marvel Rock’n’Roller coaster, how typical of Imagineering’s lack of ideas and ambition.

    Imagineering should be coming up with brand new technology and concepts, not just re-using fifteen year old off-the-shelf rides. Look at Gringotts Bank – a Marvel ride should be as unique and original as that, or at least try for it. You just don’t see Imagineering – the place that pretty much invented animatronics – doing anything that daring or technically original nowadays.

    I want Star Wars and Marvel rides that don’t fit labels of ‘roller-coaster’ or ‘dark ride’ or ‘simulator’, but are just incredible immersive experiences unlike anything else in the theme park world. Instead we’ll probably just get an off-the-shelf Vekoma with a themed queue.

    • CaptainAction

      Yes, we all want this but you have to go to Universal now to get rides which don’t fit current labels or incredible immersive experiences.
      Iger doesn’t “do” unique or creative or immersive.

      • Erik Olson

        Universal doesn’t even have their own IP? Everything they’re doing is franchise-based. Which you apparently approve? But Disney can’t use their IP library for attractions? Don’t complain if you’re going to apply a double-standard. Thanks.

      • danielz6

        Of course universal is franchise based they are the original Studios park! Thats all they have ever done and it’s what they are all about. That’s not a bad thing it’s the the identity of their experience. Disneylands identity has always been taking you to a different place and time, not putting you into the movies. It’s not a doube standard if you understand the parks’ unique identities.

      • BC_DisneyGeek

        He didn’t say Disney shouldn’t use their IPs, but that they should come up with new technology for attractions.

        Harry Potter is an existing IP, but the experience is amazing because they developed new and original types of attractions, didn’t just do a HP themed
        off-the-shelf coaster like Disney is apparently considering for Marvel.

      • CaptainAction

        BC Disneygeek,
        Thank you. That is what I said.

      • solarnole

        Carsland is a slower version and Test Track and Avatar land will be a clone of Soarin its taking a long time to make a Patrick Walburton Avatar so it keeps getting delayed.

        I can’t wait for the new Star Wars clone of Toy Story Midway Mania which was just a clone of the 1996 Disney Quest Pirates game. That with an X-wing Dumbo clone will be worth waiting over five years for them to build it. I bet they will even come out with a new $15 dollar popcorn bucket or $30 magic band.

        I’ll be at Universal until they start making new ride systems again. Yeah Mission Space the last truly unique ride system by Disney was an epic failure that killed people but when we fall we need to pick our selves up again. At least that what Batman says.

    • Internitty

      I don’t get why they can’t build a new Frozen float for the parade, I’m sure if they tried it could be ready for Christmas and most definitely for the 60th Anniversary parade.

      I’d like to see more imaginative rides for Marvel and Star Wars too but I wonder if the new crop of Imagineers can come up with anything, so far they’ve done a re-dress of Test Track and now they want to re-dress Aerosmith’s Rockin’ Coaster.

    • Golden

      Completely agree BrerJon – I for one won’t miss Toontown a lot if it is replaced by something truly awesome – and I believe it is possible to make something truly awesome based on Star Wars IP.

      It would be a let down if they do something massive and it isn’t immersive, but I believe they can do it. Unlike some others, I don’t feel as though Disneyland lacks imagination and creativity at all. What I think they have done, however, was made a number of unwise investments in a short period of time, limiting the money to give effect to true innovation for a while. I also think they suffer from inconsistency – Cars Land v Finding Nemo submarines, eg. Something like a Star Wars land would be an ideal opportunity for a resurgence in creativity.

      • solarnole

        I wonder if Toontown will get Frozen. It has a dark ride that they could easily replace with a quick overlay and the backdrops could be switched to the castle.

        Since Epcot is getting it you know it will land somewhere at Disneyland. I think they should retheme Tom Sawyer Island to Frozen. The boats would help with the crowd control. It could be meet and greet Island, at least water would be between the cheap experience and the rides or they could do it the Disney way and redo Great Moments with Lincoln to “let it go “it with Abe Lincoln

  • brianpinsky

    I think WDI finally got the message that Tomorrowland is not meant for Star Wars. But what does this mean for Star Tours though…

    • redmars

      Be really interesting to see. Can’t imagine they’d leave it in if they build a whole new land within the same park. If WDW’s Snow White is any guess, they’d take it out. (If Star Wars took over Tomorrowland, you can easily see them leaving it in, same as if a new land went in DCA or the third gate) Perhaps they will retheme it – seems like a fair amount they could do, heck, a Mission: Space type experience could fit.

    • Golden

      Hopefully, they would be able to simply build a new show building and move the ride. That sounds fairly tricky, in fact it could even be cheaper to build from scratch for all I know. But it wouldn’t make sense to either a) lose Star Tours entirely or b) Keep it in Tomorrowland.

      The one thing I do think about Star Wars land is this: Tomorrowland would then consist of:

      a) A subpar reskin of the submarine ride
      b) Buzz Lightyear – which I still love, but many feel is outdated
      c) Space Mountain (the one and only thing in the whole land that is truly irreplaceable)
      d) A whole lot of not much… especially given the Jedi Training Academy would also presumably move.

      I think any proposal for Star Wars land should bring with it a plan for Tomorrowland as well – Disneyland could use a DCA like major investment boost to achieve both of these things at once.

      Also, I have to say, I think you could create this so as to retain Roger Rabbit ride within the guise of Fantasyland. You could keep that small corner of Toontown (and even completely reskin it) and use it for photo ops. I think very little of the Toontown land would need to be retained to achieve this, and I think it would be a good goal to retain the one major attraction if possible (having multiple ways into and out of Star Wars land would probably also increase usage of the ride – the problem with Toontown currently being that you only go past it if you are going to it).

    • Malificent2000

      I think Star Tours could be changed into a Guardians of the Galaxy themed ride, similar in style to Star Tours or even the new Iron Man ride being built in Hong Kong Disneyland. You could be helping StarLord and pals on a mission to save the galaxy from different villains, and it could be like the current Star Tours where you can get a few different villains to deal with and or planets to visit.

  • CaptainAction

    Iger, “Just tell the Disney jerks that…ah…yeah, we can’t afford to do anything but themed restrooms, interactive lines, and some painting because Shanghai is just crazy to deal with.
    Yeah, tell them we have a cash shortage but we can still build restaurants, stores, and snack stands overnight because those are from another budget that isn’t affected by Shanghai.”
    Minion, “Yes sir, but where do I put these wheelbarrows of cash?”
    Iger, “In my Company Bonus Vault, moron!”

    • AaroniusPolonius

      LMAO.

      It’s patently ABSURD to remotely excuse divestment in the Disney Parks over investment in Shanghai Disney Resort. ABSURD.

      Why? Because we’ve seen the quarterly reports, that’s why. They’re making about 1.5 billion dollars a MONTH in revenue, that’s why. About 300 million of that is pure profit, that’s why.

      It’s insane to think that Disney, of all companies, can’t afford investment.

  • parker4fm

    While I understand these plans, I have to disagree with them. I’m sure we all can do our own armchair Imagineering, but I’ll throw this out there. There are a few major theme elements that need to be addressed.

    1 – Mickey and Minnie don’t belong in the Opera House. Just like Mickey/Tink don’t really fit the theme of Town Square in WDW. (That’s a minimal issue.). In addition to that, the park would lose a land geared toward small children for a land geared toward teens/adults. The balance would be off.

    2 – Marvel fits the theme of Tomorrowland. Innoventions could have a thrill ride built inside it or the building be leveled and something fit into that space. I personally think the Stark Expo would fit great there. Though, after you read point 3, you wouldn’t have a problem with Star Tours becoming a ride similar to the Iron Man Experience in Hong Kong. **We also face a major problem if neither Star Wars or Marvel go into Tomorrowland…what to do with Innoventions, Magic Eye, old PeopleMover, and in the event Star Tours moves, that building. I don’t want to rename Tomorrowland, but I think Marvel could fit more thematically. As I mentioned, say that Tony Stark has placed the Stark Expo inside Tomorrowland and work off that.

    3 – Does a Star Wars Land really seem like a good idea to add to existing names of Fantasyland and Adventureland? I am not a fan of Toy Story Land in the other parks, but I really don’t want to see Walt’s original messed up with an IP name. (That’s just me). What I could see fitting is taking the Star Wars Land to DCA. LucasFilms has been a huge part of Hollywood and California, creating some major films and revolutions in the industry. Take Star Wars to where they want to put Marvel.

    With those ideas they will not have to close Toon Town, they will be able to utilize all the space in Tomorrowland without renaming one of Walt’s originals. Remember we walk into a world of tomorrow when we come into the park. And they are able to place Star Wars into an area that likely could fit a lot better. (In my opinion). And, oh, they still have some expansion space at Big Thunder Ranch.

    • Internitty

      I agree with pretty much everything you’ve said, very well thought out

    • LoveStallion

      It’s beyond me how they don’t see the potential for an Asgard-like area, even if the Thor movies are probably the weakest of the MCU universe.

    • AaroniusPolonius

      Don’t Marvel movies take place in the present? Should the rides not go in “TodayLand?”

      • Marko50

        Thank you.

    • solarnole

      Marvel would be best in a New York area for the classic characters unless they are going to use Tomorrowland to hype the less popular space ones

    • TodAZ1

      By now, 59 years after Disneyland opened its gates, Mickey and Minnie are as much a natural part of Main Streeet as the Emporium is.
      In addition, it can be argued that most of Fantasyland is already geared toward the younger children. And I’ve never really liked the idea, too much, of a whole land aimed specifically at a certain age group. Disneyland is meant for the whole family.

    • mondo

      1 Where did guests meet Mickey and Minnie before Toon Town? On a home video, in the 80’s, Mickey had a huge line on Main St. Snow White and the 7 Dwarves, Tiger, and Pooh where also roaming around.

      2. Not all of Marvel fits in TL. Stark Expo for the future tech and Guardians of the Galaxy for the space Sci-Fi. Thor, and Captain America no. Avengers some but not all. They could use the Tomorrowland film or Tron to replace Innoventions and Magic Eye.

      A large part of Star Wars , theme wised, can fit in TL but not all. Only use the futuristic space ports and space travel, (Star Tour) and don’t have planets like Tatooine, Dagobah, etc out in TL.

    • solarnole

      Disneyland is so small that they have to be careful when adding IP that it will last. They cannot add new stuff without closing something in a small overcrowded park.

      Disney got burned on Roger Rabbit and Toontown when Spielburg blocked them from using the character in new movies and he got a cut of merchandise rights.

      Marvel is weird because them building rides also indirectly promotes Universals Islands of Adventure, Sony, and Fox.

      I think most of the money and rides will be Star Wars based because they own all the film and theme parks rights outright and can easily clone attractions.

    • Golden

      I don’t really feel that Toontown will lessen the experience for smaller children. In my experience (including, both before and after Toontown existed, being a child) everything about Disneyland is awesome to small children, and it doesn’t need Toontown to make it so. I don’t feel the balance would be off at all. Preferably, I’d like all parts of the parks to feel like they cater to everyone. In my family (and now, I’m one of the adults) Toontown and Bugs Land both get shorter shrift even when taking small children – because the kids get pleasure out of everything, but the adults are bored with kiddy lands.

      • Marko50

        I’ve just recently started going to Bug’s Land. You can get wet there on hot days without standing in line for hours for Grizzly River Run or Splash Mountain.

  • tcsnwhite

    This article says “new parades”… as in the plural sense. I thought it was just one new parade (a nighttime parade) suggested thus far…

    …are there rumors for a new daytime parade in either DL or DCA?

  • Susan Hughes

    The summer was bliss. Yesterday was the first day the Annual Passholes returned. And it seems that during their blockout they developed a big chip on the shoulders. They returned, not happy, but extra rude and arrogant. I say eliminate the remaining cheap AP and stop renewing both SoCal passes.
    Premium and Deluxe APs weren’t blocked out, and say what you will…higher prices for an AP seems to “civilize” people. Maybe a higher price makes you feel like you “earned” a Disney visit. Lower prices just makes you “deserve” a Disney visit.

    • WDWfanBoston

      Ok, you don’t like Annual Passholders. We get it. Your obnoxious attitude about them certainly has to be as repugnant as any “entitlement” they may feel.

      • Susan Hughes

        “After a pleasant summer season with manageable crowds of tourists spread evenly between the two parks, the Disneyland Resort crashes into late August this week with the return of over 500,000 SoCal and SoCal Select Annual Passholders who have been blocked out since June. That will make this the busiest week of the summer by far, and the Resort’s parking infrastructure will be stretched to the breaking point while the parks suddenly crawl with huge crowds of locals, while the front line Anaheim CM’s struggle to keep up.”

        Not my words. It’s from the author of this update.

      • WDWfanBoston

        If you think what the article said and what you said are the same, you’re even more deluded than I imagined. Your “passhole” comments (I know, you know some CM’s say it, so it’s ok) and your constant ignorant comments about Passholders are infinitely more obnoxious than any Passholders could ever act.

      • WDWfanBoston

        If you think what the article said and what you said are the same, you’re even more deluded than I imagined. Your “passhole” comments (I know, you know some CM’s say it, so it’s ok) and your constant ignorant comments about Passholders are infinitely more obnoxious than any Passholders could ever act.

      • amyuilani

        Susan did not invent the term “Passhole.” I was a CM nearly 20 years ago and I heard it then, and this was before DCA and the multi-level passes. Obviously not all pass holders are “Passholes,” but the ones that are are bad enough to sour the reputations of those who are not. My friend used to say, “I’m an annual pass holder, not an AP.” The shoe fits for those who wear it.

        I was in the park on July 5 and expected it to be slammed (Saturday, holiday weekend, blah blah blah). I could not believe how wonderful it was. The pass holders I talked to were nice and were happy to see the crowds so light too. The visitors who were not pass holders were able to enjoy the park without the burden of having to weave through groups of pass holders who are not always very pleasant to be around.

        I don’t know that I agree with doing away with the lower level passes, but I do like that they have the highest expected dates blocked. But if you’re a pass holder, you either A) wouldn’t want to go on those busy days anyway, or B) are willing to pay the difference to not be told when you can or can’t go. Seems to me if pass holders came back this weekend with a chip, they should get over it. Don’t be surprised when you don’t get a premium experience for a basic fare.

      • Marko50

        Thank you, WDWfanBoston. And how would Susan Hughes know that “(t)hey returned, not happy, but extra rude and arrogant” if she wasn’t a Cast Member?

      • Marko50

        Not to mention that it has (as usual) not a damned thing to do with this article.

    • WDWfanBoston

      Ok, you don’t like Annual Passholders. We get it. Your obnoxious attitude about them certainly has to be as repugnant as any “entitlement” they may feel.

  • Internitty

    “The work out front on the Main Entrance turnstiles was the first project under this master plan, and the painters tarps will literally spread into and throughout the park this fall once the Main Entrance refurbishment is finished. The Main Entrance work is also another sign that the troubled MyMagic+ system with all its “touch points” and convoluted rules and 60 day advance bookings for a teacup won’t be coming to Anaheim any time soon.”

    Best news in the entire update!

    • FerretAfros

      No master plan that I’ve ever seen has focused on anything as minor as touch-up paint. Master plans are supposed to block out the big investments for a resort in the years to come, like new attractions, infrastructure, or hotels. I also hope that painting and refurbishments continue throughout the park, but it’s laughable to try and label a rolling refurbishment schedule as part of a master plan. It’s also laughable to think that a simple repainting project somehow indicates that MM+ isn’t coming to Anaheim

    • Susan Hughes

      I’m just glad that the mistakes in Orlando never work their way out here. Those thumb print turnstile scanners never worked worth a damn, and I’m glad they stayed in Florida. So the same goes for those cheesy looking wristbands. Who wants a weird tan line on their arm anyway?

      • danielz6

        We get worse mistakes like a private club completely compromising the theme of Walt Disney’s masterpiece, New Orleans square.

      • scrappydawg

        Anyone that wears a watch.

    • CaptainAction

      You are correct sir! Everyone who loves Disneyland has been sweating and hoping that DLand doesn’t TOUCH the dreaded Magic Handcuffs.

      • AaroniusPolonius

        That’s a futile hope. They’ve invested 1.5 billion dollars in MyMagic+ technology. For them NOT to monetize it across their theme park empire is just plain dumb.

        That would be akin to Nissan developing a continuously variable transmission, spending a billion or more in the process, and not flying the CVT into every vehicle they sell, despite the public’s ongoing aversion to CVT technology.

        Like it or not, My Magic+ and it’s associated stuff WILL be coming to EVERY Disney park in the future, and ESPECIALLY if it proves to (a) encourage more spending and (b) longer stays in the resort.

      • solarnole

        GM did design and kill the electric car because it would hurt their core business. Coke cancelled New Coke, Microsoft give up on Vista after only one year etc

        Smart companies will admit a mistake. Dumb ones will let it bankrupt them. The biggest flaw of the magic band is that your smartphone can do everything it does and you are screwed at WDW if you don’t have a smartphone. Enjoy 30 minute lines at a far away touch station to change your fast passes and make sure you have the whole party or they can only do it for you.

        People don’t want to plan every hour of every day 6 months in advance but if you don’t nothing will be available except a fast pass for Captain EO. If the park loses power or internet you lose all your rides that you planned months in advance its a great system that has no back up

      • AaroniusPolonius

        Solarnole,

        I don’t think that My Magic+ is a “failure” as compared to the other examples listed, especially when one considers the corporate gain on the other side of the equation, as well as the plainly obvious market for micromanaged Disney vacations.

        A. There’s a vast wealth of Disney planning guides, from Birnbaum’s official to a variety of unofficial planning guides. There’s clearly, obviously a market for those who enjoy and demand a clockwork Disney vacation. Indeed, BEFORE MyMagic+, people were making dining reservations 6 months in advance of their vacations, for example, so it’s not out of the realm of possibility that for a vast segment of the tourist population, MyMagic+ offers real, tangible benefits to their vacation experience.

        B. I’m betting that if you can afford a Disney vacation, you can afford a smartphone. Seriously, my 89 year old grandmother has a smartphone. This is not “new fangled technology that only the kids are using.” It’s not an X-Box one is hauling around the park.

        C. Remember that the long-term strategy for ALL Disney Parks around the globe is the integrated resort model pioneered at Walt Disney World. If that wasn’t the case, Disneyland would still be one park with one tangentially associated hotel, versus two parks and three hotels (and a property purchase nearby for even more parks and resorts.) While the visitation pattern at Disneyland Resort in the present may very well be focused on annual pass holders and locals, it’s obvious, through both their infrastructural investments and their stated strategy to stockholders, that Disney is working to transform that paradigm into something more akin to WDW and Tokyo Disneyland. (And, of course, Hong Kong, Paris and Shanghai are all structured around the integrated resort model, as well.) MyMagic+ neatly fits into that strategy, and should the system encourage increased guest spending, you’ll see the tech worldwide sooner rather than later.

        D. Much like the original FastPass, you don’t have to use MyMagic+. The Magic Handcuffs moniker is misleading. You don’t have to book a ride in advance. You can just get in line and avoid all the planning and “pressing a screen on a phone” that’s causing such headaches to y’all.

        E. The back end of MyMagic+ is the real value to the corporation, even if it perhaps diminishes the guest experience. Disney will have a real-time data map of where and when their customers ride, spend, shop and relax for every hour of the day, every day of the week, every month of the year. They’ll be able to micro target guests based on cohorts formed from this data. They’ll be able to move merch into zones at the exact right times for the exact right audiences based on this data. However you feel about MyMagic+, if they pull it off, Disney stands to make a FORTUNE off of this technology. A FORTUNE. It’s the Holy Grail of consumer data mining. So, of COURSE they’ll want that Grail to be in place at all of their parks and resorts.

        F. I think the largest issue with MyMagic+ (aside from very real privacy and “Minority Report” related issues,) is that it feels very much like the cart before the horse. WDW has been suffering from a lack of real, premium investment in their resort, and 1.5 billion dollars could have translated into about $350 million in investment into each park there. It’s very revelatory as to what the company’s priorities are, and I think, as a Disney fan, it’s disenchanting to have their ambition to shake every last penny out of their guests exposed quite so brazenly and nakedly. But that doesn’t detract from the Holy Grail aspects of MyMagic+ and its ability to generate a wealth of data for the company, which they can and will use to generate a wealth of profit for the corporation.

        Like it or not, and clearly you don’t, MyMagic+ is coming to Disneyland. You’re not thinking comprehensively if you think that it won’t.

  • mykeedee

    Argh I just can’t understand how Star wars fit’s cohesively beside Frontier and Fantasy Lands.. It simply wouldn’t work and I am sure Disney will make the right decision about ideal placemaking such an ambitious development.

    The Marvel coaster idea sounds like a no brainer to me. With the unbelievable success of Marvel, it just makes sense that Disney are planning to cash in on Marvel through the Parks. Considering so much of California Adventure has gotten away so tremendously being thematically jumbled, a new Marvel OR Star Wars land would suit DCA like a glove. On the other hand, Disneyland is a more classical formula that is too nostalgic to properly host these modern brands.

    • Internitty

      You don’t understand it because it doesn’t fit. Star Tours is great, the Jedi Training Academy is great fun but a dedicated Star Wars Land belongs in DCA where lands are named after movies.

    • LoveStallion

      The only way I could see it working is if the Big Thunder Ranch area is an Endor moon entrance, while a more obvious Star Wars entrance is on the Toontown side. With an Endor theme, redwoods and the like aren’t a step too far from alpine villages (Fantasyland) and Bryce Canyon (Big Thunder).

    • mondo

      How does Frontierland ands Adventureland ‘fits cohesively beside’ each other? One is a jungle themed for the most part and the other is western and forest themed. It would more likely be separated using a tunnel or/barrier.

      They could do an Endor forest entrance on the west and have an Frozen attraction, replacing the theater and have a Hoth entrance on the east.

      • Golden

        Not to mention New Orleans square at one intersection of the two. Or how does Tomorrowland fit next to Fantasyland if Star Wars Land does not?

    • lightofdarkness

      Wait, I’m confused. You don’t understand how a Space Fantasy Western fits behind Frontierland, Fantasyland, and Tomorrowland? Star Wars is literally the unification of all three. It couldn’t possibly be more appropriate to put it there. 🙂

  • eicarr

    ANY Star Wars and Marvel is great. Disney’s most crowd attracting brands will massively boost attendance and spending (unlike Monsters Inc.). I’ll miss Roger Rabbit though… wish it could replace or be moved next to the current DCA monsters inc ride. A great muppets/stage 17 replacement.

    What about Tomorrowland?!?! They still need to bulldoze all those awkward and embarrassing buildings from the Starcade and magic eye theater to mission to Mars’ Pizza Port, and from America sings/skyway to the gas guzzling autopia. The Peoplemoover dominated Tomorrowland is still a massive wound that 30 years of band-aids can no longer hide. Hopefully they’re just waiting for a worldwide makeover of all Tomorrowlands(an awkward/place-holding theme since ’55).

    • LoveStallion

      Which is why Discoveryland in Paris is so smart. The steampunk-inspired area implies the future, but does so from the perspective of the past. Great way to keep stuff from being dated.

      That said, the back area in DLP with Star Wars is butt ugly.

      • danielz6

        Also Port Discovery in Disney Sea has that same idea and is a lot of fun. Personally i think tomorrowland should be the optimisic vision of the future as seen from the 60s space age era of history. The attractions should change and be relevant but the aesthetics of the land could stay the same and would be beautiful at that.

      • mondo

        DL tried that theme already and it failed. It worked at DLP because Europeans can relate to it better. (Jule Vernes,Da Vinc, Wells are all Europeans) Where Americans have their own views/style of the future. It was called Discoveryland not Tomorrowland for a reason.

      • Marko50

        Of course it failed. They didn’t pull it off very well. As a matter of fact (OK, opinion) I’d say they didn’t pull it off at all. Most people still don’t know that they can eat the plants.

    • JWhiz

      Actually moving Roger Rabbit to Hollywood Land is a great idea. Fits the area, fits the older Hollywood vibe as the movie was set there and then. It also saves the ride that so many people enjoy.

      Not sure how easy it is to move a dark ride, but can’t imagine it would be too hard.

      • Steak N kidney

        Yes , I also agree, if the Toontown area is to be removed .Then save ‘Roger Rabbit’s Car Toon Spin’ and relocate it and some of the best pieces of Toontown over in a section off Hollywood Blvd in DCA. . Also in regards to Club 33 in NOS, Disney has forgotten the meaning of what a Discreet Club is …Hopefully more quality theming of iron lace balconies and maybe an apprentice chef character above the French Market might help.

  • Nland316

    Pretty good news in this update if I do say so myself! I’m much more comfortable with a Star Wars expansion in Toontown versus Tomorrowland. However, I don’t see why they wouldn’t bring Roger Rabbit over to Hollywoodland. The ride still has fastpass and has a 30-45 minute wait on a daily basis. Meaning more that it’s one of the more popular dark rides unlike Snow or Pinocchio or Toad that rarely make it past 15 minutes. It’d fit perfectly in Hollywoodland.

    Since Star Wars is taking over Toontown what does that mean for a Tomorrowland makeover? It’s delayed entirely?

    I’m fine with frozen as long as it isn’t permanent.

    Marvel doesn’t really belong in DCA. It needs it’s own park. They should use Hollywoodland to showcase older classics.

    Pretty cool on the Muppets’ front. I hope it would receive a fancy new facade in the process.

  • Park Hopper

    I’d hate to see them remove Toontown, but I wouldn’t mind seeing them shrink it down. They could move the Mickey and Minnie Meet and Greet over by the entrance and then take out Mickey’s neighborhood, and the downtown/civic area. They could keep Roger Rabbit and turn the firehouse into a souvenir stand and the current Laugh Factory could be repurposed into a character dining experience. That would keep all the good stuff, remove all the Toontown dead wood, and still leave them room for a large show building for Star Wars Land.

  • mykeedee

    Let DCA showcase the modern Disney (pixar, marvel, star wars etc) while continue the Classic and Original charm of DL. This way each park has it’s own Unique Selling Proposition and can build strength on neighbouring values of what’s New/Popular/Edgy alongside Classic/Charming/Spectacular – a perfect harmony to ensure all bases are covered by meeting all varying demand.

    Star Wars, like Marvel fit the former Park and would warp the feel of DL. A second futuristic area in DL would make Tomorrowland look completely redundant whilst upstaging the values and themes of the rest of DL. By contrast it would only serve to enhance DCA.

    Question is what to add to DL? To maintain the values of the original Park, I believe the answers lie in what are already there. For example :
    – Continued upgrades to popular rides in the vain of recent Alice makeover
    – Expansion of the most popular rides (more rooms/scenes for Haunted Mansion, alternative Pirates for Nighttime, rebuild coaster for comfort and experience on Matterhorn, big surprise finale for Jungle cruise, animation upgrade to Splash and rebuild of Pooh ride to name a few.
    – Add unique attractions that are based on solid, round themes and stories that take people on journeys and magical places where dreams come true

    It seems that visitors are drawn to DCA to experience the New Disney whilst they will continue to be satisfied with the original so long as ongoing love and attention is given to it as the years roll by – not always by necessarily adding new rides, rather expanding on what they already have

    • traumwelt

      Completely agree. Star War does not make sense s a land in Disneyland Park, especially where they’re looking to put it. I just don’t get it.

      I like your idea of strengthening two identities / rategies for the two parks.

  • rstar

    Yes, it’s quite confounding how the plans are to take a perfectly good part of the park and buldoze it to remake it into Starwarsland, yet ignoring Tomorrowland that sorely needs a makeover. How does that make sinse??

    • themur

      Toontown is hardly a perfectly good area. I love the idea of Toontown but it has been completely neutered. Thanks to our litigious society and Disney attorneys there is no longer a ball pit, slide in a boat, bounce house or moving trolley. I love Roger Rabbit and would love to see them move it to DCA but right now Toontown is woefully weak and I would be ok with taking it for Star Wars.

      I love that we think having a fantasy themed land next to a frontier themed land makes sense but not a space one.

      • TodAZ1

        Completely agree with you.

  • Okinawadan

    I really look forward to your updates! The one piece of information which stood out for me. Is an all new Buzz Lightyear ride.. It’s the first I’ve heard of this. Have you more information on this in a previous update?

    • svonkco

      I think you might have misread that, Okinawadan. The only mention of Buzz in the article was a reference to the building of Buzz (all new back then) for the 50th anniversary back around 2005.

  • svonkco

    I find the idea of a Star Wars land where Big Thunder Ranch is now, and behind the Frontierland berm, a poor idea in terms of thematic flow, and the idea of a tiny Marvel mini-land shoved into DCA between Hollywoodland and Cars Land a poor idea as well–there isn’t enough space there for the popularity of the intellectual property, and no room for expansion.

    When Disney planned (but sadly never built) Dumbo Circus and Discoveryland for the space being contemplated for Star Wars Land (plus the current Fantasyland Theater), there seemed to still be a real attention to thematic connections and logic (or emotional logic, at least), and not just dictates from business-y types like Iger, who know and care nothing about such things (Iger and most of the top Disney brass only understand, and not well enough, I think, that you need to put these new, expensive and popular properties somewhere–but where, he doesn’t seem to care). Issues of thematic/emotional flow were very important to Walt Disney and the first and second generations of Imagineers. Thus, they put Tomorrowland on the right side of the park, representing the future, and they put Frontierland and Adventureland on the left side of the park, representing the past, with Fantasyland in the back of the park, representing imagination, childhood, and the heart of the Disney enterprise. Main Street, Disney’s own nostalgic re-imagining of his childhood, was the funnel that brought you into the park, and with its 50 year old nostalgia when it was built, started you off your day in Disneyland with a break from today and a subtle indication that the park was about Disney’s and the Disney company’s American journey. Star Wars just isn’t a great fit, therefore, for the left side of the park. Discovery Bay, with its early Steampunk rethinking of the nostalgic Western past, could have worked there, but Star Wars Land will, I think, make Disneyland less emotionally logical if placed there.

    Disneyland isn’t just some park that grew randomly, or was designed with random thematic overlays, as some other theme parks are (as nice as the Universal parks are, that is what they are–a random hodgepodge of thematic areas, with no real internal logic–of course, some of these thematic areas, especially the Harry Potter ones, are really fantastic by themselves). Anyway, why do this to Disneyland, when there is a much better and potentially more lucrative solution? Build the third park, already! Disney, you have the land to really do Marvel and Star Wars right, in the former strawberry fields down south. Put Marvel and Star Wars (and some Disney property that would fit) into a new, elaborate, beautiful Disney’s Heroes and Villains park down there! Then, use some of that money you will be raking in to fix Tomorrowland and to build Discovery Bay (or something as exciting and impressive) in the back of Frontierland (and if you have to have a tie-in to Discovery Bay, then hire J.J. Abrams or Guillermo del Toro or Steven Spielberg to direct a Discovery Bay, Indiana Jones-ish, Jules Verne-themed super-film to get your desired synergy going). And for heaven’s sake, if you do have to raze Mickey’s Toontown instead of just putting the money in needed to fix the area (why not just do that?), put a huge Frozen ride and meet-and-greet back there (although the empty space where the former Motor Boat Cruise sits unused (and some of Small World Plaza, if needed) would work just fine for Frozen–but get Frozen into the park pronto!).

    • notlemc

      I completely agree with you regarding how Disneyland has a much better layout than DCA and Universal Studios. However, let us not forget that Stars Wars does take place “A long time ago in a galaxy far, far away”.

    • mondo

      I like your post and agree they should build a third park. For the Frontierland to StarWarland they could use the Endor forest.

    • choco choco

      I think you understand theme park design better than the Imagineers do. You certainly understand it more than the executives (Staggs, Iger) at Disney.

  • LoveStallion

    First, just a gripe from a writer to a writer – I don’t love the “red” puns on China. Those have been outdated since the 90s. China may be officially communist, but it’s really just authoritarian capitalist at this point with lots of regulation. Besides, the Cold War is over.

    I hear you on the Frozen merch and attractions issue. My guess is that while Disney expected the film to do fine, they expected it to do fine in the same vein as Tangled ($200M domestically, nearly $600M globally). No one could have predicted how much Frozen took off. It definitely took everyone off guard.

    That said, part of Consumer Products job, as well as the entertainment wing, is to utilize their areas of purview to promote the films, so I agree that it’s surprising there’s yet to be a Frozen float or focus on a Frozen attraction.

    Then again, it took Disney 20+ years to give the Little Mermaid its lackluster due, and the best they’ve done for other “recent” animated films (non-Pixar) is… Flying Carpets of Agrabah?

    In my opinion, a Frozen ride would go great in Fantasyland, utilizing a revamped old Skyway station as an entrance and building a new ride in the backstage area. It would go perfectly right there.

    As for Rock ‘n’ Roller Coaster featuring Marvel. Ugh. Get some new ideas, imagineers. I’m not sleeping in Universal’s bed or anything, but so much more could be done than a crappy Vekoma that’ll just fly past cutouts of Iron Man. It’s so phoned in.

    Or at least ditch Vekoma for a better manufacturer, like, um, B&M, anyone? If they build a Marvel giga coaster, I’m in!

    • Chazbo6

      Interesting you should mention B&M. There are some rumors I am hearing about an expansion of Marvel Superhero Island at IOA than involve removing the Toon Theater and building an indoor B&M launch coaster themed to Iron Man.
      Most of the discussion has focused on how Universal can do this and stay within the limits of their Marvel IP agreement.
      Which came first, Imagineering’s DCA concept or Universal Creative’s IOA? Will be interesting to see how this plays out.

      • LoveStallion

        I know Disney has pretty much blanket rights west of the Mississippi, but I’ve always been under the assumption Universal only held theme park rights to extant properties and all those of MCU were Disney’s (though I know this is complicated by the Hulk coaster).

      • CaptainAction

        Boy, do I hope this is true.

    • danielz6

      The color red is displayed every where in China. Its like the national color. Besides the communist party has firm control of the country, they’ve just gotten smart and realised they can make a lot more money by allowing enterprise and foreign investment. Besides do puns and sarcasm have expiration dates?

      • Chazbo6

        The way it was explained, USO/IOA can use Marvel characters/themes in thier parks based on their comic book incarnations (i.e. they can’t get RDJr. to do voice or live action work). So as long as their ride is based on that verison of the character, not the movie, then they can add attractions as long as Marvel agrees with their interpretation/representation.

      • LoveStallion

        Of course red is on display everywhere in China. The flag is red.

        *facepalm*

    • CaptainAction

      Boy, is that lazy? Rockin Roller Coaster rethemed for the Big Marvel entry for an E Ticket attraction? Wow!

      • Darth Goofy

        Yes, lazy, but look what they did for part of the Fantasyland expansion in WDW. The Circus themed area is a lazy theme with re-purposed tents and tacky overlays for the Goofy Coaster, and the clowns are creepy. albeit they did a great job on Radiator Springs but as mentioned on Mice Chat before, it was needed to save a failed lazily designed park we all know as DCA. Star Wars could be good in DCA but people would ask how it ties into California.

    • Westsider

      The Cold War is over? The Reds aren’t on the march? Don’t tell that to Ukraine, they’re kind of nervous right now for a reason.

      The Red jokes never get old. And a Communist is a Communist in any decade, even if he lets McDonalds and Disneyland set up shop in his over-regulated country built on a bubble ready to pop at any moment.

      • AaroniusPolonius

        Well, the term “communist” has always been used incorrectly to identify what amounts to modern dictatorships.

        What is disturbing, about Disney and basically every other company (and everyone who basically no longer has a choice but to buy goods made in these countries,) is that for pure profit, companies fostered in a democracy, have chosen to ignore the very political freedoms that enabled them to thrive, grow and prosper in the first place. And that’s not just a Disney thing: that’s an apolitical, amoral corporate American thing.

  • Primogen

    This news does not make me happy.

    Tomorrowland is full of problems — from the disasterous 1998 makeover to the inherent problem that any attempt to create a “near future” will soon become dated. Plus, almost all of its attractions — Astro Orbiter, Autopia, Captain EO, Innovations, Peoplemover track, Submarines — need to be revamped or replaced. I think that a Star Wars retheming of the land would have addressed these problems.

    If Big Thunder Ranch and Toontown are replaced with a new Star Wars land, I would miss one of my favorite places to eat in the park (Big Thunder Ranch Barbeque, of course!) as well as one of my favorite rides, Roger Rabbit Cartoon Spin.

  • notlemc

    I agree that Roger Rabbit should be moved to Hollywoodland. It is almost a perfect fit, and makes much more sense to add another ride, that is popular to the “land”. It makes more sense to have Roger Rabbit in Hollywoodland than to have Monster’s Inc there. It’s not like there aren’t any unused buildings in Hollywoodland (cough, cough).

    As for Star Wars taking the place of Toontown, I think the writing on the wall has been there for a while. Toontown has fallen into such a dilapidated state with peeling paint, shuttered attractions, and safety nets galore that either the town needs a major overhaul or needs the bulldozer. Replacing Toontown with Star Wars is an effective solution to address the existing problems with the land. As for the transition from Frontierland to Star Wars land, I expect that land will start at Tatooine (complete with a Mos Eisley Cantina) and then will transition after the new tunnel under (or over) the railroad tracks into the sleek modern world of Courscant or a new planet. I would not be surprised if TDA copies Diagon Alley’s version of Knockturn Alley with a seedy and dark indoor shopping space.

    With a new Star Wars land, I would not be surprised that Star Tours either gets moved or re-skinned as a “new ride”. The empty space of both the Star Tours building and failing Magic Eye Theater may be just enough room for another attraction to be built in Tomorrowland. If Star Wars land does not take over Tomorrowland, I have a bad feeling that Innoventions will continue to limp along with the rest of the land until a more expansive overhaul of the land can take place to address Innoventions, the Autopia, People Mover and Subs. But that probably won’t happen for another decade.

    With the concern of Star Wars land not being appealing to children, I firmly believe, that young children will be drawn to the new Star Wars films and thus the new land. It is very apparent in the casting of the new movies that JJ Abrams is focusing more on making the movies more female driven. If done correctly and effectively, Star Wars could potentially create an appeal to females similar to that of Frozen (there is much evidence of this potentially being the case with the characters of the Clone Wars and success of newly added female characters to the franchise and the accompanying marketing data of their successes with female audiences).

    Marvel in DCA is not a bad thing. It is a great thing, no, but is it bad, not really. Marvel will bring in lots of money for the theme park and will help drive the future movies. However, I am concerned that having a “mini land” will just be a temporary band-aid and will allow TDA to satisfy their customers by providing a Marvel Experience, however it will inhibit TDA from fully utilizing Marvel for the 3rd gate, to take over Tomorrowland (the later, which I dont support), or for a truly unique ride experience (there is plenty in the Marvel Universe to build many awesome and unique attractions). I fully agree that building a Rock N Roller Coaster clone is not a good idea. The bare parking lot would be a better use of space. I would rather see a unique and innovative ride built – even if it means squashing A Bugs Land. It’s just too bad that Tower of Terror is set at a bad angle and thus making it difficult to fully and effectively utilize that back corner of the park.

    As for the displacement of the Mickey and Minnie meet and greets, yes the main street cinema could work (again, I dont support). However, I would much rather see them do the meet and greets the old fashioned way (you know, roaming the parks at random hours). That would be a great “retro” throwback that TDA could incorporate for the 60th. But because that is unlikely and if the Cinema is not taken over by the mice, then I bet they will take over either the Carnation Cafe, Coke Corner or part of the Plaza Inn.

    With the new Muppets 3D film, it is just another band-aid for the attraction. If guests really want to see a 3D film, they can go to A Bugs Theater, or Soarin’. Muppets 3D will continuously be used as a flex space for DCA to do special screenings and teasers of movies. Wouldn’t it be a novel idea if those screenings actually took place in a Cinema (Main Street) or an actual theater (Aladdin)?

  • DebG

    I will be sad to see Toontown go, but it really has been a non-entity in the park for years now. If we don’t get our Third gate I’d be O.K with Star Wars going in its place. I do hope they will move Roger Rabbit to DCA its really a cute ride.

  • marksummer

    It’s funny-I can agree with a lot of the sentiments expressed here about Star Warsland not fitting in between Frontierland and Fantasyland, but in the end, isn’t it about how imaginative the rides and attractions are? Yes, putting Pirates and Haunted Mansion into an existing Frontierland was very smart, but if the attractions weren’t overflowing with amazing creative ideas, New Orleans Square wouldn’t be the fantastic success it is..

    I sort of cringe when I think about a future Disneyland with Marvel attractions, and I’m not such a fan of Star Wars as a part of Disneyland, but when I take a ride on Star Tours, past and present versions, I have to admit it’s a terrifically creative ride. If anyone could pull off these new ideas, it’s Disney. But part of what has made Disneyland such an amazing place has always been the “spare no expense” overall concept. Just about everything is “one of a kind” and that made the experience by its nature, unique. In a world where there are now multiple Disney parks, with more to come, the very thing that made Disneyland special is in danger.

    I’ll look forward to seeing what the Imagineering folks come up with. As in, I’ll do my best to remain openminded. But I do miss the old days when it seemed that improving the park seemed a bit less motivated by profit and a lot more about doing something very, very cool.

  • netenyahoo

    I agree with a few on here that Star Wars doesn’t fit between Frontierland and Fantasyland and Marvel needs a much bigger area than just a little corner of DCA. I think the eventual Frozen ride or even a Frozen mini land belongs in the area between Fantasyland and Frontierland. They could keep the BBQ area and have a place for seasonal entertainment still, but finally take out the Skyway station. I also think they could take out part of Toontown. The whole west side of Toontown could go. Move Mickey and Minnie farther east, but they need to keep Toontown. Tomorrowland is still not getting the attention it needs. Hurry up and fix the entrance please. I really feel that Star Wars and Marvel are so big they really need their own seperate park. Maybe focus on doing small things for Star Wars and Marvel for the time being, but the 3rd park when it gets built should have huge areas for Star Wars and Marvel.

    • Golden

      I have to say, I much prefer the idea of a land dedicated to a completely independent IP set which has lasted the distance over 40 years than a single Disney movie that came out a year ago.

      Frozen belongs with and in Fantasyland. It doesn’t need a new mini land. If they wanted to build an e ticket for Frozen, they could manage to do that in Fantasyland – frankly, they could take out the subs and have the facade/queue on the other side.

  • LoveStallion

    Is no one thinking of one of the biggest pitfalls of a Star Wars land in Toontown?

    Closures for fireworks.

    You can’t place E-ticket stuff in an area that gets shut down for a spell every night.

    • notlemc

      You can keep the ride open during the fireworks if the E-ticket, queue and entrance to the ride are all built indoors. The firework issue is the concern of the falling embers on guests as they walk around in the open, not having a building located under the fireworks (the building would likely be coated in fire proofed material just to be safe). If there was concern with the fireworks falling on buildings, then all of the backstage area, IASW, and Fantasyland would be shutdown during the current firework shows.

      • LoveStallion

        Right, and do you really think a Star Wars E-ticket isn’t going to have lines long enough to escape the show building?

      • Buffett Fan

        Based on both Potter Rides in Orlando, no the lines will not be outside the buildings. The ques are massive for both rides and can easily handle 3+ hour waits

  • Gregg Condon

    Certainly interesting regarding the Star Wars stuff. I just don’t understand why the entry would be near Frontierland and not just connected through Tomorrowland? There is a HUGE amount of real estate taken up by Autopia and the old Motorboat Cruise.

    Secondly, It’d be a real shame to lose Roger Rabbit. It’s one of my favorites.

    • mondo

      If Star Wars Land is connected to TL by taking out Motor Boat area and Autopia, It’s a Small World needs to be removed too.

  • Pan

    I’m a huge Star Wars fan! Like Huge!!! Play SWTOR, watch the movies multiple times a year, yet I have a problem removing Toontown…

    I love Toontown. Yest it’s small, and yes, it’s for little kids, but in my oppinion it’s the most detailed land. All the hidden gems, the look the feel. It is by far my favorite land in all of Dland…

    I really hope they don’t do this…I would rather them create another small park, or put it in Tomorrowland…

  • Chris101

    Always excited about any news in Disneyland and DCA, but this wasn’t it…

    Agree, Star Wars doesn’t fit with Thunder Mountain Ranch area… will mess up the feel of the park in a big way. DO NOT DO THIS. I was fine with tearing out Tomorrowland and Autotopia and building it all over there. Although I felt it would create a weird overbalanced feel to the park making it all Star Wars there. Disneyland should be mulitple ideas, highlights, not anyone franchise dominating a whole area, let along infecting the middle of fantasyland. What happened to 3rd Gate or even taking over a parking lot area?

    Marvel… (love Guardians and that gives them a whole new world to explore), but a roller coaster? Come on, I go to Disney for theme rides, not roller coasters, that’s what Six Flags is for. Ugh.

    Frozen… good. More theme based attractions of any kind, temporary if that’s all you can muster. I want more: Tangled, Wreck It Ralph, all Pixar, Beauty and the Beast, Aladdin, untouched classics Mary Poppins, 101 Dalamations, on and on… why can’t they do more here? Malificent Castle ride! That’s what I want behind Thunder Mountain Ranch. You’ll get my $$$$ and everyone else’s.

    Take the technology teased with Seven Dwarf Mine Ride and double, triple-down and build rides with that advanced technology.

  • DisDancerina

    I just love reading MiceChat news updates on things that aren’t confirmed, they get my imagination going. 😉 Yes, these things all may end up changing in the end, but I think I’d be alright with them if they didn’t.

    Star Wars where Big Thunder/Toontown is at least makes a little sense to me. I think of the area in DHS with the tall trees and then the big walker and can see that back there. It’d look like a forrest from Fantasyland and a forrest/village from Frontierland, but when you take a closer look, you realize that it’s actually a land from Star Wars. If they made it an incredibly immersive experience and not some franchise stuck in the corner of the park, I think I would love it. Though it’d be interesting with the train going by it. I don’t think Star Wars really fits in Tomorrowland unfortunately, so without a new park of lands, that may be the only place to put it. I just wish they could find a better place for Mickey and Minnie than the opera house.

    And I would wish they would put Roger Rabbit into Hollywoodland. It’d be awesome if they made that an area dedicated to the classics: Who Framed Roger Rabbit, Muppets, Tower of Terror… Just deeply classic films and shows. I can see Roger Rabbit fitting near ToT somehow. Some version of him.

    Putting the Frozen thing in DCA is obviously a no-brainer, but just a snowflake covered bandaid. Still, glad they’re putting the area to use.

    Marvel in DCA? I’m undecided. I want to see it in Tomorrowland. If they put Marvel in DCA and leave Tomorrowland alone, I’ll be pretty disappointed. It needs a total rehab in some direction; I think they’re just afraid to mess with what kind of sort of works. I don’t, however, really mesh with the idea of a Marvel Rock n’ Roller coaster like coaster. We need more inventive ideas than that. Hopefully there’d be incredible use of animatronics.

    Anyways, done giving my 2 cents here! Really just excited to see what happens.

  • DCACM

    Interesting. I’m a purist when it comes to DL, and don’t feel Star Wars or Marvel is appropriate for the original park (as much as I hate Toontown).

    I DAT bring them both to DCA. Bulldoze Hollywood Studio/Monsters and expand into the esplanade… and get rid of that Flik’s FF turd and expand between ToT and CL.

  • DCACM

    DAT = say. Keep Muppets, but move entrance to HWood Blvd.

  • danielz6

    Im definitely frozen
    “These Shanghai delays are wreaking havoc with Burbank’s fiscal planning calendars for 2015 and beyond”
    Sorry to see my prediction of shanghai being a major drag on disney parks for the next decade is coming true.

    Star wars land behind frontierland is a terrible idea for 3 reasons:
    1. Frontierland needs to be big just by nature of what it represents. Taking land away from it is a bad idea. If anything frontierland should be expanded and I think most people (at least people who know anything about disney) would want a frontierland e ticket in the big thunder ranch space (western river exp.)
    2. Having a land in disneyland based on a single franchise is a huge violation of the parks identity imo. And what about Star Tours? An eticket residing outside of the land doesnt make sense.
    3. I find it highly unlikely that toon town will ever go away. It’s the bugs land of DL and where all the little kids and strollers are concentrated which is a good thing for everybody. Without that third gate disney simply doesn’t have a place fo star wars.

    The one thing that does excite me is the marvel coaster. I would like to ride that! But how they will encorporate a land behind bugs land i have no idea.

    The best solution of course is to put all of this in a 3rd park instead of compromising the established lands in the parks, but of course that can’t happen as long as shanghai, paris, and hong kong are dragging disney parks down.

  • Algernon

    They don’t need to refill the lagoon for the Nemo Subs. Most of the time it’s four-year-olds watching a cartoon underwater. This could be accomplished with motion simulator subs that go nowhere, showing movies out the windows. The tots won’t notice the difference, or even care. The Nemo Subs are so horrible that they may as well not even be there. The first time I went on one, after a few minutes, I looked at my watch thinking, “When is this thing going to be over?” Hopefully, through the magic of Virtual Reality, the old Disneyland (Skyway, Electrical Parade, Peoplemover, Swiss Treehouse, etc.) will be available for those who want it. The only question is, how much longer will places like Disneyland survive, when people can experience previous, superior versions of itself, as well as incredible other environments–all from the comfort of their own homes, with no lines, crowds, or outrageous prices. Will cyber-parks do to Disneyland (as they ruin it, bit by bit) what Amazon is doing to brick and mortar bookstores?

    • mondo

      Nemo Submarine is an okay ride, but like the original better, but I love the subs sailing by in the lagoon.

  • 2puppies

    Honestly Toon Town has never done much for me. But, Big Thunder Ranch is absolutely my favorite restaurant in Disneyland…and I mean the entire resort! What a loss that would be for me and my family; many a birthday song has been sung to us there. I really thought it was a great idea to refresh the tired face of Tomorrow Land with a facade that all of us had grown up with, STAR WARS! The People Mover track would be great for the speeder bikes, move Autopia over near cars land; give it a Carsland facelift, assuming there’s room. Which would be easier if Marvel didn’t have it’s sights on the stray parking lotat DCA. Then use all of that prime Autopia real estate in Disneyland for some Lucas love! Get the door coaster plan moving, indoors of course! And overly theme the heck out of it! I know that leaves the Marvel coaster out…hmmm where to stick that beauty???

  • tooncity

    Iger is Eisner’s twin. He just has more style.

    Overspending on overseas expansion; based on getting partnerships with questionable government entities. Iger spends tons of money on efforts that don’t produce income (magic bands plus. Shagihi will be a due in China). Eisner spent tons of money on failed internet technologies’ and failed product lines that just plain failed to produce anything. I.e. Several computer animation studios, like the one which made DINOSAURS. Then add the failures of the The Muppets, Fox Family Channel. Disneyland Paris Failure, Hong Kong Disneyland Failure. Mighty Ducks franchise, lost money. Angels sold for only a 5% profit after all the expenses to retrofit Anahiem Stadium. (Didn’t he LA Dodgers and Clippers just sell for 2 Billion, each. Angels sold for about $600 Million. )

    All money losers, with huge management headaches. All these things just kill expansion in the parks. With that part of the company the only piece that produces consistent cash flow. Yet, they are abused by arrogant management.

    Now to fix everything they aren’t going to fix that crappie New Tomorrowland ( Another Eisner failure). So they’re going to leave that DUMP the same and tear out the second best themed land in the Park with the best classic Dark Ride, Cartoon Spin. Incredibly, tone death.

    Toontown should be updated and expanded, as they have neutered the land with more than half of the attractions/gimmicks/effects closed, in-disrepair or just plain turned off.
    Does anybody at Disneyland really understand what their customers want?

  • Lakerfan3224

    It seems like the concept of Monstropolis just keeps on getting thrown around. You would think that one of Pixars biggest franchises wouldn’t have a problem convincing stockholders to green light the project. What is going on with this project? Is it too expensive? Are they waiting for the right moment for it such as before another Monsters film?

  • 22branch

    At this point, I’m ready for any new E-ticket ride at Disneyland. It’s LONG overdue. I don’t understand all of this talk about a need to build an entire land. Just give us an awesome/innovative ride and expand from there.

  • janvincent_1313

    Hopefully, I won’t upset anyone with my opinion, but I’ve never really liked Toontown and Big Thunder Ranch has lost its appeal [for me anyway]. I think using these areas for a new Star Wars themed land is a really great idea.

    On the other side [literally] of the coin… I’m not that thrilled with a Marvel Comics themed area in DCA. There are however, many who will be and that’s great for them, but I probably wouldn’t go to that area very much.

    On a more off note: I would like to see something done with the area near Grizzly Peak where they have the forest UP meet and greet. A Country Bear Show would be nice, but maybe that’s just my nostalgia talking.

    • Westsider

      You aren’t the only one. Toontown is a shell of its former self, neutered by the lawyers 15 years ago and now just a faded (literally, the paint in this south-facing land is always faded) and rather pointless cul-de-sac of a traffic jam. Roger Rabbit doesn’t exist for anyone younger than 40, Gadget was only relevant to grade schoolers during the first George Bush presidency in the early 1990’s, and Mickey can meet n’ greet people anywhere in Disneyland and draw a huge crowd.

      And Toontown has to close by 8PM every day due to fireworks fallout. Toontown is a mess and a pointless dead end to Disneyland’s northern flanks. Kill it and replace it with a giant show building housing an E Ticket and some cool Star Wars experiences accessed via the Big Thunder Ranch area. Or are we really that emotionally connected to a generic stadia featuring hokey country-western acts touting the latest TV musical show on ABC and some pumpkin carving stations aimed at cheap AP’s entering the parks at steerage rates?

      Kill that waste of space that is Toontown and Big Thunder Ranch and bring on a kick butt Star Wars Land and mega E Ticket.

      The only thing I’ll miss is the goats. Some of those goats are pretty cool.

  • FantasRic

    “It all started with a mouse.” Why remove the home and the land dedicated to the icon that Walt, the company, and the ideology is founded? Toontown is a great land – whimsical and fun – one of the most creative designs coming from WDI. It ties in with Fantasyland in that it’s intended for the younger guests. Star Wars there does not flow well thematically. And I have to ask: does Star Wars Land need to be in Disneyland?

    • Chazbo6

      One would also then ask why they removed the same land (agreed much smaller and much less interesting) from MK in favor of NFL instead of adding a new D/E ticket and amping it up to the DL level?

      • mondo

        ” in favor of NFL”
        football? J/K

    • Westsider

      Toontown didn’t open until 1992. 25 years after Walt was dead. And it was ruined by lawyers by about 1999. Which is kind of okay, since it can’t stay open past 8PM anyway due to fireworks fallout.

      Kill it and replace it with something that works for children of all ages. Not just the 14 fans of Roger Rabbit left in the world.

  • MarkW

    I can’t see them ripping out an entire land to make another one. Disneyland needs expansion, not a one-for-one swap. And, if you are going to do such a swap, Tomorrowland is still the logical place for it, not Toontown. Tomorrowland needs a major overhaul. Inoventions, the current Autopia, the old Peoplemover track, Captain EO. The land needs some major work! I think that Star Wars could still be made to work there. As for DCA, the Marvel Coaster sounds like the cheap way out. Like someone else wrote earlier, Disney should be looking to build attractions that provide a revolutionary experience with state-of-the-art technology and animatronics, not “off-the-shelf” rides.

  • SorcererHero5571

    I can’t believe this article in the least bit. Mr. Lutz was extremely sensational in his often false articles about coming attractions and had convenient excuses for why said things never happened. You guys are no different from him. I refuse to believe anything from you guys until Disney officially announces it. I’ll guess when these expansions don’t happen, there will be an article with the convenient excuse of “execs slashing budgets” or some other convenient reason.

  • Darth Goofy

    The needed refurbishment of “Tumor” O Land, like a can just got kicked further down the road. :(. DysCorp should have just built that Disney Park in Texas and avoided the mess in Shanghai. I hate complaining but this is disappointing, Not an announcement until next summer seems to be another excuse to not do anything to fix Tomorrowland. (hopefully imagineers are coming up with something grand in that time frame.) IMO, I still hate the idea of scrapping Too town for Star Wars land. I was hoping they would do something like the River Expedition ride I keep hearing about in in that space. It would expand on one of my favorite lands, Frontierland.

  • FredSimmons

    I’ve never been a big fan of Toontown. It’s OK, but I can take it or leave it.

    And, on the other hand, I love Star Wars, so replacing one with the other initially sounds like a great idea.

    My only objection is the physical location. It made at least a little sense for Toontown to be located next to Fantasyland, insofar as both lands are based around animated characters. But it makes no sense at all to put a Star Wars land next to either Fantasyland or Frontierland (let alone both).

    Ideally, I’d prefer to see both Star Wars and Marvel kept for a new gate. It wouldn’t be hard to build an entire park around either (or both) of them. If not, they seem a better fit for DCA than the more traditional feel of Disneyland. I’d reserve the Toontown site for a true Disney expansion focused on the classic Disney films (like Beauty & the Beast, Mary Poppins and Sleeping Beauty) which have been given short-shrift at the park.

    But if they are determined to do it at Disneyland, then re-purposing Tomorrowland as a Star Wars land seems to make much more sense to me than the Toontown site. And if they essentially started from scratch, Tomorrowland has a lot of acreage for them to work with. Face it, there isn’t much to lose there anymore. They already closed the submarines, the motorboats and one of the autopias. The old “Carousel of Progress” building has become a laughing stock. The Magic Eye theatre is desperate enough to run an ancient Michael Jackson movie…

    But the second concern is, of course, quality. Done right, a Stars Wars land could be fantastic. But if it’s a slap-dash effort which pinches pennies… no thanks. Quality first.

    • Darth Goofy

      Agree Mr. Simmons…put Star Wars Land in DCA.it would not flow well from Frontierland…..I love Star Wars too but this sounds like a shoehorn event.

  • jan37

    Star Wars Land between Frontierland and Fantasyland?! Are you kidding?
    It needs to somehow be worked into Tomorrowland where it belongs.

    • mondo

      Many can argue Star Wars (and others) does NOT belong in TL.

      • Eddie Davidson

        They would be wrong.

    • Westsider

      “A long time ago in a galaxy far, far away”

      How does a long time ago have anything to do with “tomorrow” exactly?

      • Eddie Davidson

        Sorry but that is the lamest argument I’ve heard. Why do you think Star Wars is located in Tomorrowland now? It’s because while the it may be fantasy galaxy’s distant past, the technology displayed in the film is still far into our future. Why can’t people understand this? Why are they hung up on this one line?

  • Brack Daddy

    Tomorrowland desperately needs help, particularly all of the of unused architecture and PeopleMover track.

    Innoventions, Nemo, Autopia take up 1/8 of the entire park but serve 1/100 of the guests. (My math)

    Walt would recognize that drastic measures with bulldozers need to take place.

  • grumpy42499

    I have one question, if Toontown gets bulldozed for Star Wars. Will they be shutting down the new Star Wars Land when they do fireworks every night, just like they do with Toontown now? That would make no sense a brand new land with E-Ticket attractions being off limits hours before the park closes. I bet they have not thought of that, all they see is a larger area of land.

    I don’t like the thought loosing Autopia, (I have Grand kids that are getting to the age and height that would be able to drive “their first car” in the next couple of years) but I think Tomorrowland would be a better place for a Star Wars Land.

  • ImagineerAtHeart

    I wonder how much DIP they are going to need to remove Toontown….

  • SteveColorado

    As I mentioned in an earlier article, the best way for DLR to move forward to build whole Lands, not shoehorning in rides. Toontown has long been irrelevant and takes up way too much space that would best be used by something much, much more popular and relevant. Kids today, I imagine, probably thinks of Roger Rabbit as an old people cartoon, just like they do with many other stuff around the parks that were based on cartoons from 25-70 years ago. Not to mention the wasted space that is Big Thunder Ranch. I’ve been to DL a lot between 1976 and 2009 and not once was there a reason to ever to go to the Ranch. Star Wars and Marvel are two huge franchises and would make perfect Lands, much like Universal with HP.

  • waltopia

    my two cents (since they add up to hundreds of dollars per year):

    Star Wars style futurism using sleek Coruscant art deco for the Tomorrowland entrance concourse. Lose the rocks. Connect and expand the upper levels of SpaceMountain, Innovations (WallE show?), RocketJets (xwings) and PeopleMover (Incredibles pods), to restore/update those attractions. Remodel Tomorrowland Terrace into Tatooine style domes for Mos Easley cantina. Keep the lagoon, but forget the subs., add Naboo inspired waterfall elements and interesting landscaping instead. The land being used by Autopia could be a different show building for new Tomorrowland adventures.

    All the space between Small World and the reimagined lagoon, using the motor boat lake and replacing Autopia, should be rebuilt similar to the SevenDwarfs mine train coaster….but in a Frozen theme! All that ice would be perfect around Matterhorn and SW….and new fountains. Could incorporate some of rock candy mountain type look in crystals forms. Tuck a show building in back.

    Shrink Toontown. Keep Roger Rabbit and bring the rest of the gang nearby, but everything east of the entry path AND the oversized Fantasyland Theater should be removed. This would free up lots of real estate for new Fantasyland attractions that don’t dead end into a cul-de-sac, but create a new loop of classic Disney movie shows and rides like Mary Poppins and Fantasia gardens, or some of the sparkly stuff they are developing for Shanghai; while fixing the cheap blue tent that currently ruin the Castle perspectives from Main Street.

    All this can easily lead into a new transition westward around behind Storybookland with elements from Discovery Bay…..gold rush era concepts.

    Marvel is the obvious solution to Hollywoodland. Tons of free space that needs several ideas. Just make it look good from the monorail, rather than featuring the backside of ugly buildings. Relocate a smaller Autopia (with electric cars) into the the space near Carsland, replacing the lame Luigi’s tires ride…. This would fill out the lopsided Radiator Springs town too, and could tie Tower of Terror and Bugsland all together with a nice little drive in that direction.

    Enough for now……

  • waltopia

    ….that’s the WESTERN 2/3 of Toontown should go away.

  • sean317

    Now I know why the Roger Rabbit sculpture has not been replaced on the fountain in ToonTown!!

  • Buffett Fan

    If Roger Rabbit does close, pack it up and move it to Hollywood Studios in Florida. Sure, it would be a retread, but it would still give one more family ride to a park that needs more rides. Fill in Echo Lake and put it there across from the (not so) Great (anymore) Movie Ride.

  • LoveStallion

    Rock ‘n’ Roller Coaster also makes little sense because DCA already has a launched coaster. Why on earth would anyone want two in the same park, particularly if those are the only coasters, even if RnR is ostensibly more intense?

  • animatronic

    Nice update, Al. As a fan of Star Wars I am thrilled about something, anything coming in form of Star Wars. I’d liked them to at least try to move Roger Rabbit to another location rather than eliminate it. Maybe in DCA?

    However, I’m really concerned about the decline of Tomorrowland. It’s really upsetting to really see Walt’s vision of the future in such decline. I thought Star Wars would at least offer some new attractions, but so much of the land are ruins. I really love the concept and theme of classic Tomorrowland – except for the good E ticket attractions it needs updates to “Innoventions” building, Autopia, Peoplemover. These are prudent, but necessary improvements.

    I’m curious what the Star Wars E ticket will be. I like the idea of the Marvel Roller coaster.

    Hurray for the Muppets, getting a new show! I love 1991 show, but hate that Waldo character! The Jar-Jar Binks of the muppets attraction. I hate how the Muppets get the shaft for these movie previews … they just had 2 new movies with loyal fans. Let’s hope a new show puts the Kibash on that!

    45 days until our next visit!

  • Loopshole

    DCA doesn’t need another roller coaster. A “Transformers-like” Avengers attraction will be far better use of money. As far as turning Toontown into “Star Wars Land” is concerned, does the Park plan on closing the land down for the fireworks show as is currently done?

  • HollywoodF1

    I think the parks are at risk when the core concepts are violated. Here’s how you decide if something goes in Disneyland:

    Disneyland is about the joy of sharing between the generations. Nostalgic items are intended to spark the memories of the old, and be a way that the old can bring the young into their world to share. The future is for the young, and for the young share their ideas and hopes with the old. Fantasy is intended to be a link between the old and the young, where they can both be the same age together.

    Disneyland was dedicated on the founding principles that the people of Earth share a spectrum of backgrounds, but they found unity in America in the shared belief that the greatest possible goal and highest purpose is happiness.

    Star Wars has a lot of the fantasy element that appeals to a broad range of ages. The difficulty may be in creating the feeling of comfort, happiness, and togetherness from a theme that is based on war between beings we’ve never been in contact with. “Appeal” may sell in other places, but it is not enough for Disneyland. It’s about memories, nostalgia, reassurance, fun, dreams, and family unity. Star Wars misses on these points.

    Epilogue:

    Here’s the name of your third gate: Disney Universe. This park holds all your stories that don’t fit the more specific purpose of Disneyland. Disney Universe explores the breadth of the human experience, rather than being narrowly focused on happiness. It should encite and excite. It should all be done with passion. Marvel, Star Wars, Villains, and more… welcome home.

    • DisneylandManFan

      HollywoodF1, I completely agree with your assessment of how things SHOULD be at DL. Unfortunately, I don’t see this happening. But, we can all dream, can’t we?? Thank you for your insight and opinion on this.

  • Eddie Davidson

    I’m really dubious about this latest rumor. Last year Tomorrowland was going to become Stars Wars land and now this. The only reason I can think why they would do this is that there’s actually enough room behind the Big Thunder Ranch in which to create an immersive environment around the Star Wars IP, which is the trend these days- e.g. Cars land and Diagon Alley. And there’s no way to do this in Tomorrowland without serious changes to the land and considerable costs. From that perspective it makes some sense. However, I still question whether Stars Wars is a good fit for this area. It would make the park seem too random.

    Would this mean that the Star Wars ride would be moved to this new land as well? Now I doubt they would have just spent money rehabbing the Nemo Subs if they plan on removing them. So maybe there is some truth to this rumor. If they do all this then what’s the future of Tomorrowland?

    Honestly, I don’t care about the opinions of those people who say Stars Wars and Marvel do not belong anywhere at Disneyland. They are just ridiculous. But without a plan for Tomorrowland this Stars Wars land just makes the people in charge look like they have no clear concept of what direction to take the park in. But that perception could be wrong and all be based on false rumors.

    As for Marvel in California Adventure. Sure why not? I mean the whole adherence to California theme went out years ago. What do Mermaids have to do with California? The people who still hold on to the original idea aren’t living in the real world. I also don’t have a problem with Disney using the same ride system but with a different theme. They’ve done this over and over again for years.

    • Westsider

      What do insects or cows or Muppets or Coney Island boardwalks have to do with California?

      Much of DCA on opening day was very loosely themed to “California”, as if insects and cows and boardwalks don’t exist in any other state. If anything, the California theme has been strengthened and made more coherent in the last few years.

      • Eddie Davidson

        Not really sure I agree you. Even though some of those opening day “attractions” were not very good at least they were more California-specific. Lets see. Superstar Limo (Hollywood) has been replaced by Monsters Inc.(location?), Golden Dreams (California) has been replaced by Little Mermaid (Caribbean), Bountiful Valley (Central California) has been replaced with Cars Land (New Mexico/Arizona), Mulholland Madness (Los Angeles) has been replaced by Goofy’s Sky School (location?), Paradise Pier with “California Screamn’ and palm trees could not be mistaken for Coney Island. Not every state has boardwalks. Most do not even have coastlines.But California once had many. So besides Buena Vista Street I’m not sure what you’re talking about. I’m not saying that it’s not a much better park because of all the changes. I’m just saying let’s stop using the “It doesn’t fit the California theme” argument against something we do not personally find appealing. I have no problem with a Marvel-themed coaster in DCA. That’s all.

  • danielz6

    HollywoodF1 wow, Disney universe is I think the best name i’ve heard for the long awaited 3rd gate. Only problem though people might confuse it or worse claim copying “universal” right up the street?

  • Timekeeper

    I think “Disney Infinity” would be a better fit for the name of a third gate to hold and host the Star Wars, Marvel and any other properties that are too big for just a small attraction. (Might have to make a few differences between the name of the third gate and the video game series.)

    I echo that statement of Star Wars between Frontierland and Fantasyland, the idea of having star wars in two areas sounds just as bad as having two Toy Story attractions in different parks (not counting the madness and insert-ness of TS everywhere in DLR in 2010,) almost sounds as bad as when they thought of replacing Magic Eye Theater with Monsters Inc Laugh Floor in Tomorrowland (when there is a Monsters Inc dark ride across the street.) I thought they were either going to be build an attraction/new mini-land either based off OZ the Great and Powerful or the Lone Ranger, with signs pointing to doing an OZ mini-land (which would have made a lot more sense as to transition between the realms of the past and the imagination.)

    I think Toontown could benefit a refurbishment (which would make sense, given DL’s upcoming Diamond Anniversary.) If Toontown gets closed for any expansion/creation of a new (sub/mini)land, they ought to move Roger Rabbit over to the Hollywoodland and place it where the former Hollywood and Dine building is located; and either build a character restaurant based off of Mickey’s House of Mouse but themed to the 1930’s Hollywood w/ an attached Ink’n’Paint Club for adults or just the Ink’n’Paint Club, (which they can probably build anyway since DCA can serve Alcohol.) It would help that section of Hollywoodland a lot.

    Marvel…well, if a roller coaster is the best they come up with (and placing it in DCA), it would be a ‘Cold’ day in an otherwise nearly Hollywoodland.

    Speaking of ‘Cold’, Frozen…I still don’t like the idea of not building something more permanent for Lot 17, but since Frozen Mania hasn’t melted, I guess it would help remove some traffic from Fantasyland. Plus, it again would make sense if they would have to close a big chunk of Fantasyland for more Dark Ride improvements/general refurbishments for the 60th Anniversary.

    As for Muppets, I would be open to a new movie that doesn’t transport you back to the Disney MGM Studios circa 1990 near the end (and the semi-annoying CGI character.) Plus, I would much rather have a new exterior for DCA’s Muppet Theater that would help make itself fit better with 1930’s Hollywood, such as an art deco inspired studio building.

    -Timekeeper

  • Uncle Bob

    I think this rumor makes a lot sense from a business and logistics perspective. I also am not sure that the feel of this transition couldn’t work fine and I don’t think it would be nearly the destruction of the park that many people have expressed. I don’t think it’s ideal, I agree with many others that a third gate would be a better home for the majority of SW and Marvel properties, but this is a good solution and there’s no reason to believe that if a third gate gets built there won’t be even more of both.

    From a business perspective, it make a ton of sense to be able to market a whole new Star Wars land and this location would enable that. The combines spaces would enable a nice sized land with sub-lands and space for beyond the “berm” attractions. It would eliminate the TT fireworks problem, draw a huge number of guests back to an underutilized area of the park and really help spread out the crowds.

    To the comments about it not fitting, in some ways, it makes a lot of sense there. SW basically a western fantasy and much of the action actually takes place on planets, which often have a very western feel. It actually has a strong thematic resonance, with both lands that would surround it as it pulls heavily from both genres. Either Tatooine or Endor would feel very cohesive as a transition point and the more iconic SW stuff could happen deeper inside the land. It would actually be quite separated, but it would make for a visually cohesive transition. Would I prefer a Frontier Land expansion with a Western Expedition like ride, but I know that’s not going to happen. This will use the space more efficiently and make most guests very happy.

    Personally, I find the idea of essentially removing an original land a much bigger affront to DL’s history and layout then adding a Star Wars land in this location. And yes, TL desperately needs an update, but it does not need to be turned entirely into Star Wars land. There are plenty of other properties to go there.

    I’m also ok with the Marvel plans more or less. Again, not ideal, but it makes a lot more sense then Monster’s and it will be a bigger draw. Hopefully the theming will be done well, but I’m really glad that the area may be getting a ride. I definitely think that DCA could use another coaster and I’m sure the experience will be much better then RnRC. DCA definitely needs something like this and it will help keep DCA relevant and busy.

    • Eddie Davidson

      Valiant attempt. But your arguments have not convinced me. Stars Wars has always been classified as sci-fi, not a western fantasy. However, much you and I may understand the thematic connections Stars Wars has with the two genres, most people will just think “Space and Future” (even if it’s another galaxy’s past.)
      And if they create Star Wars Land north of Fantasyland and Frontierland then Disneyland will have two space/future-themed lands. Does that make sense?

      The Tomorrowland problem still needs to be solved. To be honest I’ve never understood why people are so afraid of Star Wars cannibalizing Tomorrowland. I grew up with Disneyland, since the 1960’s, and I don’t recall it ever having an unified theme like the other lands. Personally, I’d rather have a Tron Lightcycle Coaster and reincarnation of ElecTRONica in T-L. But if they are going to go with Star Wars then it should be in Tomorrowland as was rumored last year. Autopia, Nemo Subs, Innoventions all need to be sent to Yesterdayland to make that happen. Leave that space north of Frontierland and Toontown for some other Disney IPs that could be expanded on like Peter Pan’s Neverland, Aladdin’s Agrabah or Beauty and the Beast.

  • Steak N kidney

    I would just like to make a comment , if the Toon Town area is to be removed .Then please recycle the roger Rabbit Car Toon Spin & relocate it (with some of the best pieces of Toon Town) in a section off Hollywood Blvd in DCA . In regards to the expansion of Club 33 in NOS , Disney has forgotten the meaning of what a Discreet Club entails. One can only hope for more added quality theming – iron lace balconies,perhaps the props & designers could have an apprentice cook /kitchen hand who lives above the French Market .

  • Steak N kidney

    I would just like to make a comment , if the Toon Town area is to be removed .Then please recycle the roger Rabbit Car Toon Spin & relocate it (with some of the best pieces of Toon Town) in a section off Hollywood Blvd in DCA . In regards to the expansion of Club 33 in NOS , Disney has forgotten the meaning of what a Discreet Club entails. One can only hope for more added quality theming – iron lace balconies,perhaps the props & designers could have an apprentice cook /kitchen hand who lives above the French Market .

  • Steak N kidney

    I would just like to make a comment , if the Toon Town area is to be removed .Then please recycle the roger Rabbit Car Toon Spin & relocate it (with some of the best pieces of Toon Town) in a section off Hollywood Blvd in DCA . In regards to the expansion of Club 33 in NOS , Disney has forgotten the meaning of what a Discreet Club entails. One can only hope for more added quality theming – iron lace balconies,perhaps the props & designers could have an apprentice cook /kitchen hand who lives above the French Market .

    • solarnole

      They should send it to Florida. Hollywood Studios only has one ride suitable for kids in Toy Story Midway Mania

  • merlinjones

    The Imagineers need to take seriously the fantasy they have so successfully created and perpetuated to the public.

    This will be the headline and take-away impression across the globe:

    ”Mickey and Minnie evicted from their homes by Darth Vader.”

  • a-mad

    These are all very interesting rumors and fun to read… but until I actually see an official announcement (or cranes onsite), I’m never getting my hopes up again.

    First it was the Iron Man attraction that was going to take over the area in and around Innoventions – which was just a couple of week away from being officially announced.

    Then it was the Monsters, Inc. door coaster and Monstropolis which was going to be announced in sync with a new Tron LIghtcycle coaster on the PeopleMover tracks

    Then it was the re-do of Tomorrowland with Star Wars complete with Endor and Millenium Falcon and Cantina.

    I’m not faulting MiceAge – I’m sure these were all ideas that went through several stages of approval at WDI before getting shot down by the execs – so they were definitely in the planning stages… I’m just saying that there have been so many ideas the last few years that haven’t come to fruition, that I am no longer going to get excited about something until I know for sure they’re serious about it.

    They’re certainly enjoyable to read about and speculate around, however.. so thanks for providing this very interesting update.

  • JiminyCricketFan

    Roger Rabbits Spin needs to go. Frankly, it was created at a time when Disney was all about synergy and wanted to cash in on the movie. But kids don’t know who Roger Rabbit is and his character is not really an endearing character. Frankly, an Olaf themed ride would be more popular.

  • garyman

    Lots of comments on this changing out toontown for something better is a real plus especially if it adds another E-Ticket ride. This will help spread the crowds out more. Tomorrowland still needs a make over to make it look more futuristic.

    I do like Roger Rabbit too.

    Moving Frozen to DCA is also a good idea. Again lessening the crowds stacked up in Disneyland.

    Looking forward to the announcements when they come.

  • mathdance

    Lots of people were commenting on the loss of Roger Rabbit. I won’t miss that. There are many examples of rides based on movies that hold no longer hold any popularity (Mr. Toad, Splash Mountain) but this one just seems to entrenched in the original (and kind of awful) material. It’s in a “kids” land but is based on such a grown up, not for kids material — overly sexualized Jessica Rabbit, babies smoking cigars and the most gruesome deaths to cute little silly things. I make my kids watch the classic films even when they get bored with them so they will get more out of Disneyland when we go. But, I don’t think I’ll let them watch that one until they’re teenagers, if then.

    But, I will miss Gadget’s Go Coaster. Yes it’s short and nobody knows the tie-in. But, it is the best “thrill” ride for a pre-schooler. One of my best DL memories of all time is watching my three year old daughter go crazy for it. If a Frozen ride (or an Ewok ride, or an R2D2 ride gets a Seven Dwarves-ish treatment with a some speed some thrills and a low height requirement, then the balance of the park would be improved. But, what are the odds?

    I have every confidence that if Star Wars Land goes over tune town it will be an awesomely detailed and fun experience like Cars Land, only better because more people like the tie-in and the transition from other lands can be made to work visually even though it will never look right on the map.

  • mathdance

    And, why not improve TL with some original attractions with seriously updated ride technology. The big excuse for TL attractions failing is that the future soon becomes the present. But, nobody has shrunk down smaller than a molecule like in adventures in inner space. Nobody has landed on Mars.

    I’m barely old enough to remember riding Inner Space. It was kind of thrilling to a little kid to watch the Doom Buggies shrinking down through the tube and having the giant eye looking down at us as we were told we were tiny. Even at that age, I thought the big models of snowflakes looked cheesy. But think what they could do now. Add some minor thrills to the ride system and ….Yeah, nobody would like it.

    The biggest problem with Tomorrowland is that nobody is inspired by what the future could hold and real science is a bore until it lands on our smart phones.

  • SxcyMike

    Parker4fm, your point #3 is dead on, get out of my head!! 🙂

  • Loopshole

    Interestingly, Tony Baxter was checking out Hollywood Land this afternoon, particularly the area around Stage 17…

  • Baloo

    I really don’t understand the logic of the addition of a few meet and greets and a cloned RNRC based on Marvel in DCA If these rumors on this update are real.

    First of all the remaining timon lots is not very big. The area that is left is about 3 acres and they need to use some of that for infrastructure of anything built. The only way they can add a bit more space is if they move the big green buildings they built a few years ago again and finally remove the extra wide road from the previous entrance road.

    Also, is a RNRC clone with Marvel theme all they can come up with?
    Marvel in 2014 has four of the top ten grossing movies. By the time Guardian ends its run they will probably have at least two of the top five grossing movies of the year.

    If they want a coaster then maybe they should instead clone the Tron coaster with parts of the track inside a show building and others outside. That might be a bit more interesting.

  • Baloo

    If they do tear out Gadget go coaster, they really should consider moving the ride to DCA.

    The perfect spot for it would be condor flats. There is a huge piece of landscape property between Soarin and the hotel. I think with a little imagination and some nice theming they can create a new theme for this little coaster. They cars can be made to look like vintage planes.

    This area is in desperate need of an attraction that can be ridden by families with young children. I see so many people sitting around waiting with children while the rest of the family rides Soarin. I know that they have the grizzled challenge area but its farther away and many parents would rather wait in line for a ride than have to be worried of their children running wild

  • danielz6

    Star wars is not sci fi, it is Space Fantasy.

  • jl925sanders

    Great idea for Star Wars location. Tomorrowland is not long ago and far enough away. I will miss the Go Coaster, it’s a great attraction even for adults.

    Just got back from WDW, Frozen is huge and it will be at DL too.

    • solarnole

      Tomorowland will propbably get the original trilogy. Star Tours can stay. Astro Orbitors becomes X Wings. Buzz becomes Jedi or stormtrooper training. Innovations becomes the meet and greet and a restaurant.

      It will be better then the cartoon Tomorrowland that WDW got. Disney is not in the business of having lands based on the future anymore. Its going to be a fake future of Star Wars, Marvel or disney cartoons.

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  • Tinkbelle

    My opinion is probably not a very popular one, but I don’t think there needs to be more Star Wars at Disneyland, other than maybe adding some more of the characters (especially Leia) for meet and greets. I think they should save the idea of a whole Star Wars themed land for a third gate down the line. Tomorrowland shouldn’t become Star Wars Land and putting it back where Toontown is would just be awkward and all that money being spent would mean that Tomorrowland will be neglected for more years (decades?).

    I’m fine with them leveling Toontown at some point. The only ideas worth saving from it are a toddler playground (which is very much needed but needs to be a little larger and have more things to play on) and Mickey and Minnie’s homes. Roger Rabbit is trash to me. The coaster is such a brief ride that it is hardly worth waiting for. Fantasyland is filled with rides for toddlers that have much more charm to them than Toontown.

    Toontown was poorly done and I wouldn’t miss it. However, Star Wars just does not seem like a good fit for that area. It would also be strange to have Star Tours in Tomorrowland and a whole other Star Wars land elsewhere in the park. And, like I said earlier, it would take away funds from fixing up Tomorrowland. I think it’s a bad idea.

    I don’t really care one way or the other about Frozen being added to the Hollywood backlot. I wasn’t impressed with the movie and don’t give it much thought. It isn’t a draw for me, but I know it is for a lot of people and will surely be a much bigger hit than the Muppets.

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  • Disney Marine

    I love the Muppet Vision show, but the problem that I have seen evolve over the past few years is that the cast members working there feel like the attraction is an old, unimportant part of the park, and their attitudes reflect their dissatisfaction in being assigned to work there. They do not make it a fun place to be, so it’s not. Their poor attitudes and lack of effort keep the audiences small, which makes it seem like n one wants to see the show, which further fuels the poor attitudes. Maybe a few of them need to talk to the guests about their wonderful show, rather than talk to each other about their horrible long day. Bring some of the high energy from the Disney Jr. across the street and I guarantee people will have more fun.