10/13: Hello George & Starbucks

[JerrodDRagon]

I love those show passes, this makes it wayyyyyy better for people like me that want to get to see the show but would not be able to because too many "fans" would be their all day waiting for the show and not letting others get to see it because the park is not meant to be a place were you sit all day waiting for a show, you should be able to enjoy the whole park.

[flynnibus]

Originally Posted by DisneyIPresume

And also can someone please explain how the lottery system in Tokyo works? Thanks!

Think Fastpass... but instead of 'first come first serve', it's random if when you insert your ticket if you actually 'win' a pass. This is done until the passes run out. In Tokyo you can 'enter' once a day for a shot at winning a seat at one of the various showtimes.

Disney could do all kinds of manipulation if they want... low chance of winning early in the day, increasing as the day goes on so they always ensure all the passes are distributed by showtime, but guests throughout the day have a shot and there isn't any need for a mad rush to the machines first thing in the morning. Basically, the later in the day it is, the better shot you have at winning. This would defuse a lot of the mad rush, and opens opportunites up for later visitors.

Unlike Tokyo's lottery, they could set it up so you could try to win multiple times a day, but only able to try once per time window. So say you can only try to win every 2 hours. This would even out distribution AND still give people a better shot at winning.

The problem with a pure FP only system is the only issue it solves is people camping out in the park all day and cluttering it up. It won't help more people see the show, because all those people will simply come first thing in the morning and sell out the show as fast as the machines can handle the people. So late comers will still not get to see the show, and you'll STILL have the crowding issues as people queue up to enter the area before show time. I don't see it solving anything but the 'camper' problem.

In theory Disney could be happy that the pass holders have to come first thing in the morning instead of late in the day, but that doesn't help guest satisfaction in any way.

[flynnibus]

Originally Posted by JerrodDRagon

I love those show passes, this makes it wayyyyyy better for people like me that want to get to see the show but would not be able to because too many "fans" would be their all day waiting for the show and not letting others get to see it because the park is not meant to be a place were you sit all day waiting for a show, you should be able to enjoy the whole park.

Instead they'll just run you over for FPs at first thing in the morning and if you aren't there with them.. you're still SOL.

If anything it's better for the campers, not anyone else

[CaliforniaDreaming]

Originally Posted by flynnibus

The problem with a pure FP only system is the only issue it solves is people camping out in the park all day and cluttering it up. It won't help more people see the show, because all those people will simply come first thing in the morning and sell out the show as fast as the machines can handle the people. So late comers will still not get to see the show, and you'll STILL have the crowding issues as people queue up to enter the area before show time. I don't see it solving anything but the 'camper' problem.

In theory Disney could be happy that the pass holders have to come first thing in the morning instead of late in the day, but that doesn't help guest satisfaction in any way.

If Showpasses are consistently gone hours before showtime, maybe they would consider moving the start of pass distribution to later in the day. Since this is a new idea for the American parks, there could be a trial and error factor involved.

[JerrodDRagon]

Originally Posted by flynnibus

Instead they'll just run you over for FPs at first thing in the morning and if you aren't there with them.. you're still SOL.

If anything it's better for the campers, not anyone else

Yeah, I guess they're is no far way to do this (unless you do a non AP night) because APers will always do what ever it takes to see the show. I wish Disney was smarter and made a 12,000 sat viewing area instead. Go big or dont go at all, Disney.

[vfire]

Originally Posted by rwsmith

It seems to me that Disney has been pitting annual passes against single day tickets. Ticket prices go up and that makes it cost effective to buy an annual pass, so more people are AP holders. Then there's too many APs in the park so they raise AP prices to "discourage" people, but at the same time raise single day tickets to $72 and $97 and parking to $14, which encourages buying the more expensive annual pass. It's either a testament to the Disney brand or Disney greed/arrogance to raise tickets in this economy. I guess they have to pay for the decline in hotel dollars someway or another. I'll still be there every few weeks.

What he said. By raising the price of single day tickets Disney makes it simply irrational not to buy an annual pass instead. There's way toooo many APers, and the best way to winnow the herd is to jack the prices of all of APs by 50% across the board, and not raise single or multi-day ticket sales.

Starbucks is only a marginal upgrade over Nescafe, which is only borderline potable. If they had brought in Peet's Coffee, I'd be more amenable to the theme violation.

[sir clinksalot]

Considering I had the absolute WORST cup of coffee EVER from the Market House last Friday night, and I'm currently enjoying a VERY NICE cup of Starbucks I have absolutely no problem with this change.

Secondly, I don't think they are going to be putting a huge Starbucks Logo in neon on the Market House. Probably just a window dressing, which is fine. I do agree that Peet's would have been better though.

The Showpass idea sounds interesting, I wish they would do this with Fantasmic.

[faerla]

I'm kind of heartbroken about losing the neverland pool and yes the dancing waters area. I stumbled on that area on my first stay at Disneyland and go back to visit it every time. The little room behind the waterfall is a great place for a romantic kiss, and the place is nearly always deserted, so it's great to escape the crowds at night.

Sad to see it go.

Really, though- about the pool, I can imagine 8 year old girls being thrilled about the Sleeping Beauty update, but I figure most 8 year old boys are going to hate it. Peter Pan is good for everyone.

[DisneyIPresume]

Originally Posted by sir clinksalot

Secondly, I don't think they are going to be putting a huge Starbucks Logo in neon on the Market House. Probably just a window dressing, which is fine. I do agree that Peet's would have been better though.

However if the replace the Starbucks mermaid with Ariel then any type of signage would be ok!

[SpcMtn77]

Originally Posted by faerla

Really, though- about the pool, I can imagine 8 year old girls being thrilled about the Sleeping Beauty update, but I figure most 8 year old boys are going to hate it. Peter Pan is good for everyone.

I agree that the Peter Pan theme is better suited for ALL kids. Although I have yet to stay at the DL Hotel, I still intend to someday and was looking forward to the pool. Since Skull Rock left Fantasyland, I liked that there was still a smaller representation on property somewhere...Too bad it's going away.

Also, I'm glad that there will be a good cup of coffee in the park. Starbucks has been consistently decent wherever in the world I've had it (in my experience) and I can definitely tell the difference, regardless of what cup it's served in.

[ni_teach]

Originally Posted by JerrodDRagon

I love those show passes, this makes it wayyyyyy better for people like me that want to get to see the show but would not be able to because too many "fans" would be their all day waiting for the show and not letting others get to see it because the park is not meant to be a place were you sit all day waiting for a show, you should be able to enjoy the whole park.

Funny I thought the same thing. What are those poor people who like to wait in the same spot for six hours are going to do with their time?

[Tomorrowland Tourist]

It's truly a tough call trying to argue just what negative impact corporate sponsorships on Main Street have. For example, one could argue that having Carnation and Sunkist in the parks during Walt's era was a huge thematic violation, but both of those companies were formed around the time that Main Street exists. Furthermore, Sunkist represents Southern California citrus growers, which just adds to the whole "orange grove" aspect of Disneyland.

Nevertheless, Walt Disney was a bona fide capitalist, and he really appeared to enjoy championing American businesses. Especially given his widely publicized anti-socialist views and his collaboration with George McCarthy's authoritarian rounding up of liberal socialists. I once joked about Starbucks completely ruining the atmosphere of Main Street and turning it into a mall, but corporate sponsorships have been part of the history of Disneyland. I don't know exactly how I feel about it, and my initial reaction was negative, but when Al Lutz says it isn't a big deal, I take it to mean that one of the preeminent Disney purists sees it as not a big deal.

On that same note though, most Disney purists know or would assume that corporate sponsorships were a necessity back in Walt's day, as getting funding for his new technologies and ideas always seemed difficult. I don't think his animated films had grossed enough at that point for the massive expenditures required for Disneyland. Today? Corporate sponsorships can just be seen as increasing the bottom line to help Disney prosper on Wall Street at the expense of Main Street.

Conclusion? I don't know how to react to Starbucks on Main Street.

[RetlawInMyBlood]

Hello everyone! Long time Disney Fan and Former Cast Member, finally got around to registering.


Corporate logos were the norm in the 60's and 70's, so I see nothing wrong with Starbucks in DL. I hope the look and feel of the current MH. I like the old-time feel and the items for sale. I hope it does not become a Starbucks store with Starbucks logo items.

SP: I never seem to have an issue finding a spot, although it will be nice to have pass into the seating. As far as Fantasmic, I have always loved the show, but hated what it did to my favorite part of the Park at my favorite time of the day (evening hours with the great lighting). The set-up and huge waiting crowds ruins the show and look around ROA and NOS. I have wished that DL had a amphitheater setting for Fantasmic like DS in Florida.

Have a Magical Day!

[Mr Wiggins]

Originally Posted by Tomorrowland Tourist

On that same note though, most Disney purists know or would assume that corporate sponsorships were a necessity back in Walt's day, as getting funding for his new technologies and ideas always seemed difficult.

With Starbucks in Disneyland, as with McDonald's in Disneyland, corporate sponsorship is not the issue.

Wonder Bread sponsoring the Hungry Bear Restaurant is not an issue. Hills Brothers sponsoring a restaurant is not an issue. Carnation sponsoring a restaurant is not an issue. Sunkist sponsoring an orange juice bar is not an issue. Nor is Monsanto sponsoring Adventure thru Inner Space, Bank of America sponsoring It's a Small World, or Swifts and Del Monte sponsoring the Market House.

The issue is having a store like Starbucks or McDonald's selling literally the same product that they sell in their other stores on every street corner in every city today. The issue is a real-world corporation running literally the same real-world business in Disneyland that they do outside the berm. Dressed up in period decor or no, it is non-immersive.

And that is not what Walt did with corporate sponsorship.

In the real world, Carnation and Wonder Bread and Hills Brothers do not run restaurants. Sunkist does not run orange juice bars. Swift and Del Monte do not run markets. Bank of America is not in the business of children, boat rides, travel to other countries or promoting world peace.

Starbucks runs Starbucks. And putting a Starbucks on Main Street is literalness. It is mall mentality. And no amount of "period" costuming can hide that.

[RetlawInMyBlood]

Originally Posted by Mr Wiggins

In the case of Starbucks in Disneyland, as with McDonald's in Disneyland, it is not the corporate sponsorship that is the issue.

Wonder Bread sponsoring the Hungry Bear Restaurant is not an issue. Nor is Monsanto sponsoring Adventure thru Inner Space, Bank of America sponsoring It's a Small World, and Swifts or Del Monte sponsoring the Market House. Carnation sponsoring a restaurant is not an issue. Sunkist sponsoring an orange juice bar is not an issue.

The issue having a literal store like Starbucks or McDonald's selling their same product as they sell on every modern street corner in every city today. Dressed up in period decor or no, )it is non-immersive. And it is not what Walt did with corporate sponsorship.

In the real world, Carnation and Wonder Bread do not run restaurants, Sunkist does not run orange juice bars and Del Monte does not run markets.

Starbucks runs Starbucks. And putting a Starbucks on Main Street is literalness. It is mall mentality. And no amount of "period" costuming can hide that.

I agree with you. I felt I was missing something, and you correctly pointed it out. I guess that is why I fear a Starbucks "store" with Starbucks merch.