10/13: Hello George & Starbucks

[NotALocal]

Originally Posted by sir clinksalot

Again, I know I keep going back to this, but the AP program is NOT a new thing. All those other years that you would come in the spring, spend all your money and had a great time with minimal crowds ... there were AP's in the park. Just not to the extent they are now.

Oh, I know. But the AP holders should be the true Disney MEGA-geeks, not every high-school punk. Honestly, eliminate the insanely cheap SoCal passes and the problem is solved. Give locals big discounts on day passes instead. I don't care that locals are coming to the park a lot, but make them take their wallets out every time, require them to make a financial decision every time. Find out how much they value the Disney experience.

[sediment]

Originally Posted by sir clinksalot

Again, I know I keep going back to this, but the AP program is NOT a new thing. All those other years that you would come in the spring, spend all your money and had a great time with minimal crowds ... there were AP's in the park. Just not to the extent they are now.

I agree. If the AP Program drew only, say, 100,000 (as Mr Lutz refers to as a number in the mid 1990's) buyers, and that AP'ers visited maybe 4 times a year on average, it wouldn't be so bad.

Too bad the product is so popular and repeatable.
TDA management: Do not take the prior sentence as the problem that needs to be fixed!!

[sediment]

Originally Posted by NotALocal

Oh, I know. But the AP holders should be the true Disney MEGA-geeks, not every high-school punk. Honestly, eliminate the insanely cheap SoCal passes and the problem is solved. Give locals big discounts on day passes instead. I don't care that locals are coming to the park a lot, but make them take their wallets out every time, require them to make a financial decision every time. Find out how much they value the Disney experience.

Again, welcome!
[cue ominous score]
In order to come to the dark side (my side, certainly not everyone's side here), you must give in to anger and hate. The AP Program is the enemy and must be destroyed completely.

[/ominous score]


Problem is that there are approximately 700,000 mega-geeks. Only 150,000 or so high school punks.

[gurgi]

Originally Posted by NotALocal

Oh, I know. But the AP holders should be the true Disney MEGA-geeks, not every high-school punk. Honestly, eliminate the insanely cheap SoCal passes and the problem is solved. Give locals big discounts on day passes instead. I don't care that locals are coming to the park a lot, but make them take their wallets out every time, require them to make a financial decision every time. Find out how much they value the Disney experience.

Actually, this is the thing. The SoCal AP's are so cheap that I honestly wonder if Disney really makes any money on them in the long term. From my observations, those people (not all, but I would guess a lot) don't tend to spend much (if any) money inside the parks on food & stuff. They bring a bag or backpack with snacks or lunch in it. They hang out for a few hours to kill time, and clog walkways. So, if they are there several days a week all year long, the cost of their pass diminishes over time and they actually end up costing the resort, because there are so many that are not spending, but taking up space. Not to sound callous or anything, I'm not looking at this from a personal thing, but from a crowd level and spending perspective.

[flynnibus]

can we advert the inevidible 'ap is good/bad' discussion into it's own thread? We know where this is going and any discussion about Al's article is going to be washed away.

[NotALocal]

Originally Posted by sediment

Again, welcome!

Problem is that there are approximately 700,000 mega-geeks. Only 150,000 or so high school punks.

Thanks for the welcome!

Are you saying there are only 150k holders of SoCal passports? I find that exceptionally difficult to believe. Of course, I have no data to back up that suspicion.

[CaliforniaAdventurer]

Originally Posted by jrh1985

I Know how to solve WOC's Summer problem! RUN WOC LIKE FANTASMIC! with 2-3 showings a night with the park open untill 11 or 12AM! If indeed DEP/MSEP goes to DL next year, DCA will have more time to show WOC many times a night. To keep people from lineing up for WOC all day, could DCA have PPP runing later in the day or have it twice a day?

Agreed, what's the point of a night time spectacular at the price of WOC if they are still closing the park early? This should be a reason to keep the restaurants, bars and attractions open later, and maybe DCA could become more successful as a night time park.

[sediment]

Originally Posted by NotALocal

Thanks for the welcome!

Are you saying there are only 150k holders of SoCal passports? I find that exceptionally difficult to believe. Of course, I have no data to back up that suspicion.

A lot of those SoCal passporst are mega-geeks. Poorer ones, but still crazy for the DL.

[flynnibus]

well how many people eat dinner past 9-10pm? Not much point in keeping expensive restaurants open that late

how many people are going to wander the park for 2+ hrs with nothing to do (if they only kept part of the park open)?

Remember a large portion of the park's attractions are going to be shutdown for WoC anyways.. waiting around in a half closed DCA is going to be a real bore.

The reality is people would stay in DL until the show time and just run over to DCA if DCA was open late in only that section of the park. So in effect, all Disney would get is the guest satisifaction... which is probably what they'll be forced to do anyways if WoC is as popular as it projects to be.

Having to close a large portion of the park to run the show unfortunately is a negative of being so ambitious with the show.

[sediment]

Originally Posted by flynnibus

can we advert the inevidible 'ap is good/bad' discussion into it's own thread? We know where this is going and any discussion about Al's article is going to be washed away.

Al article discusses the AP "problem." I'm merely discussing the only solution. The Glove Cleaner. (That's a TZ reference.)

[skimouse]

Showpass: There's no perfect answer, but this is better than people feeling like they need to spend the day camping out. Prefer the Showpass idea to a lottery, I think it gives out-of-town guests who may not have a long visit the option to ensure themselves a ticket if that is their priority. Adding shows seems like a no-brainer - isn't the whole idea of WOC to start making DCA a "destination" "all day" park?

Sponsorships: Perfect example of the point that not everything was actually better back in the good old days. The last thing I want to see when I'm enjoying theme immersion is a reminder of the commercial immersion that exists in our day-to-day lives. The less of this, the better, IMO. I honestly can't understand folks complaining about Disney merch/movie tie-ins, which at least have something to do with the attraction, but have no issue with "sponsored by Bank of America" on an attraction promoting world peace.

DH Hotel: I'm still bummed at the loss of balconies and operable windows. Agree with most posters that switch from Neverland to yet another princess thing is lame.

[CaliforniaAdventurer]

Originally Posted by flynnibus

well how many people eat dinner past 9-10pm? Not much point in keeping expensive restaurants open that late

how many people are going to wander the park for 2+ hrs with nothing to do (if they only kept part of the park open)?

Remember a large portion of the park's attractions are going to be shutdown for WoC anyways.. waiting around in a half closed DCA is going to be a real bore.

The reality is people would stay in DL until the show time and just run over to DCA if DCA was open late in only that section of the park. So in effect, all Disney would get is the guest satisifaction... which is probably what they'll be forced to do anyways if WoC is as popular as it projects to be.

Having to close a large portion of the park to run the show unfortunately is a negative of being so ambitious with the show.

Why can't they keep Tower of Terror, Goofy's Flight School, Screamin and other attractions open in between the showings?

Keep the table service restaurants open including Cove Bar. Run the electric parade once before each World of Color. Get the nighttime vibe going. There are so many pretty lights that DCA looks better when the sun goes down anyway. Even if they opened at noon to compensate for later hours, it would make more sense.

[nunz]

I have no problem with sponsored coffee..but can we please have a different coffee? (Peet's maybe?) Starbucks is just not that good (IMHO)
I don't mind the Showpass idea, but then we will have hordes of huge lines pushing and shoving at the distribution area, but that can't be helped I guess. I wonder if they'll have a premium viewing thing like Fantasmic! ?

[BassBone]

Originally Posted by BassBone

But Carnation sponsored the ice cream shop and you could buy Carnation ice cream, the egg board sponsored the omelet shop, Sunkist sponsored a juice stand, the Wizard of Bras, etc...

Originally Posted by gurgi

But you're conveniently leaving out all of the food sponsors that DID sell their products at their locations in the park. Sunkist, Hills Bros. Coffee, Carnation, Chicken of the Sea, Aunt Jemima, National Egg Board, Coke-a-Cola, Dole, etc, etc, etc.

Originally Posted by Dustysage

Absolutely right Gurgi. For goodness sake, they sold Bras at Disneyland when the park opened! The question is not so much "What" they are selling, but "How" they sell it. I really have no problem at all with Starbucks in the parks. I'm sure they'll keep the Market House look and feel with a Starbucks logo on the sign (just like Nestle, Coke, or anyone else).

And if anyone is worried about Starbucks cups, just take a look at the non-Main Street themed cups that Disney uses now. They are always pushing some brightly colored plastic mug with characters all over it. I'm all in favor of a quality improvement in the Food and Beverage at the parks. A BIG problem right now.

Not a big deal, but why was my post ignored?

Originally Posted by skimouse

DH Hotel: I'm still bummed at the loss of balconies and operable windows. Agree with most posters that switch from Neverland to yet another princess thing is lame.

Notice he said Sleeping Beauty Castle, which is an icon of the park, not princesses.

[Pretzel]

Originally Posted by BlueSkyDriveBy

AP crowding is ruining the park experience for the non-AP and non-frequent visitor, not because of how they act, but simply because of their numbers. There should be a cap on the number of APs sold, no more than 500K, tops. Even then, I think that might be too many.

TDA should either increase AP prices 50% or ditch the SoCal AP or both. Something needs to be done by TDA and Burbank if they really want to transform DLR into a genuine tourist destination that they claim to desire. Given the overcrowded conditions I experienced, I'd rather go to WDW in the early winter and experience more open spaces, even though I feel DL is a superior park to MK. It would be worth the 5 hour flight just to have some breathing room!

As a Premium pass holder I also agree - I took a trip to WDW recently and was surprised at how much more relaxing the Florida parks feel during the off season.

The only reason I still have a Premium Pass is so I can get into Carnation Plaza for dancing on Saturday nights all summer long. It's still one of the best places for live big-band dancing. The increase in annual passholders has not, however, resulted in a more crowded dance floor.

Many years ago, Disneyland did offer a discounted pass that allowed guests in after 5 pm for the express purpose of going to Videopolis or dancing at Carnation Plaza. I'm not sure there is an effective way to bring that back though, since most locals tend to show up at the parks in the evenings anyway.