10/13: Hello George & Starbucks

[WDW1974]

Wow! Five pages of posts and no discussion on George K's new role ... just more about APers and crowding and Starbucks somehow ruining DL (as if the crap they pass off as coffee now is somehow more magical!)

I think I'm gonna try and keep this short since I posted a detailed thread about George on the DLR board. But some things beg for comment.

Oh, and first, I'd welcome Starbucks as long as the Market House retains its theme ... why wouldn't I actually want quality coffee? And they recently set up shop at Disney Village in Paris in an old western shop that actually had nice merchandise. This wouldn't be the same.

Some thoughts about George and Al.

I find it a bit amusing that Al appears to believe George is great choice considering that earlier this decade, George was actively looking for ways to 'neutralize' Al and the negative coverage his former site gave to TDA. Very amusing.

Second, to say George was the good guy during Queen Cyn's reign of terror is very simplistic. Sure, he understood his product more than she did. But he also was utterly clueless about the difference in resorts, guest makeup and philosophies between Orlando and Anaheim.

To quote Al:

"George, a native Floridian who started his career as a busboy at the Contemporary Resort at Disney World back in 1971, has Disney running through his veins and he often disagreed with Cynthia’s flawed plans and ideas for Anaheim.
After a tumultuous two years working as the Senior Vice President of Operations for Cynthia, George was demoted and sent packing in late 2001 by Cynthia under the guise of structural changes after 9/11."

While George and Cynthia often butted heads, the idea George somehow knew what was right for DLR is laughable.

He was utterly clueless. This is the dude who alienated passholders by stopping sales before DCA opened. This is the dude (paging Darkbeer to the thread with that LA Times quote) who was quoted about guests having to settle for DL daily as DCA reached capacity. This is the dude who cut park hours and staggered openings (which he also has been doing in Paris, I know I just got back). This is the dude who thought E-Ticket Nights would fly with Anaheim patrons. This is the guy who (along with everyone else to be fair, but he had decision-making power) went into panic mode when DCA bombed out of the gate ... ushering in all sorts of temp fixes (that continued after he was sent packing) and rushed the MSEP parade back among other things.

Back to AL today:

"Paul Pressler was still the Chairman of Parks & Resorts back then, and out of all the senior executives of the time, Cynthia had the closest relationship with Paul and always had his ear.
Cynthia and Paul thought it wiser to send this tenured and talented theme park guy named George packing in late 2001, and Cynthia made the infamous decision to replace George with retired Army General T Irby as Anaheim’s top Senior Vice President of Operations. George was actually demoted in title by Paul Pressler to a Vice President, and was sent off to the corporate backwater of Travel Operations for Walt Disney World, effectively in charge of the reservation call centers in a suburban Tampa office park. "

Al's hatred of T Irby has been chronicled in his columns for years. He was ill-suited for his job, no doubt.

But that doesn't make George a great choice ... not when Disney had plenty of tenured/talented ops guys like Michael O'Grattan right up the road in Burbank and Jim MacPhee in Orlando to name two. That doesn't count talented guys that Disney has forced out like Greg Emmer and Tom McAlpin to name two. And countless others who aren't in the company and haven't played puppet to Jay Rasulo on multiple continents.

And to correct Al, George was canned right after the holidays in 2001. I actually talked to the man in DL on 12/31/01 (more like 1/1/02) in the Hub, so yeah, he does show up and get out in the parks. Cynthia won the battle and if not for a network of friends in Orlando who created a position for him, he'd never be with Disney today.

After getting to Orlando, he was in essence demoted a second time when he spent three months as DD VP before becoming head of the call centers in Orlando and Tampa.

The reason George has lasted as long as he has is testament to the way Disney is run. They recycle execs like baseball recycles managers. George also has a habit of showing up just when things are at a crucial point and then taking the credit when they inevitably get better.

He positioned his work at EPCOT during the successful Milennium Celebration into being No. 2 at DLR for those 18 months in 2000-2002. With the celebration centered on the park, it was a no-brainer that the numbers would get better ... and they did.

He then arrived at the WDTC just in time for Destination Disney and, while he certainly had a major role in it, it wasn't his baby. Yet, when things like the Magic Your Way Tickets and DDP took off, he took the credit.

That enabled him to earn a stint in Paris, which was falling apart when he arrived. But much like when Matt took over DLR before the 50th, things were only going to get better no matter who was in charge. DLP was about to have a huge 15th Anniversary Celebration with worldwide media attention. So things improved operationally, physically in the way the park looked and, naturally, the bottom line. The fact George was fluent in French and had gone to school in Switzerland played a major factor in him moving over.

And there were/are still issues in the way DLP is run. Since George arrived, merchandise has been dumbed down like WDW and one of his old friends/consultants came in and dumbed down DLP menus (much like he did at Epcot in the 90s). Entertainment took a major hit as well. Top stage shows based on Lion King and Tarzan were axed this year to come up with funds for Mickey's Magical Party, a foamhead extrvaganza in the Hub. Operationally, attractions have staggered hours (even in summer). Phantom Manor doesn't open until 11 a.m. Snow White and Pinnochio open early or close late. The Nautilus walk-thru is open for four hours a day. And as for upkeep, don't ask me what the Peter Pan queue looks like (you've seen truckstop men's rooms with less obscene grafitti). Just a few examples.

Don't get me wrong, I do think George is capable of doing a great job ... for the cast, guests and fans. But is that why he got the job? Is that what Jay and Al want? Or do they want him to get the bottom-line humming with all the great new stuff coming (and he'll take credit for everything, he's great at that!) and then retire to that great new estate he and Andy will be buying?

I truly hope George realizes what an amazing opportunity he has been blessed with and realizes that DL is a whole lot more than simply a business. In other words, I hope he's learned a lot since his last disasterous stint in Anaheim.

Now ... back to the APer and coffee debate!

[BassBone]

A question: Is George K responsible for the DLP Resort closing attractions before the parks?

[jcruise86]

Originally Posted by NotALocal

Oh, I know. But the AP holders should be the true Disney MEGA-geeks, not every high-school punk. Honestly, eliminate the insanely cheap SoCal passes and the problem is solved. Give locals big discounts on day passes instead. I don't care that locals are coming to the park a lot, but make them take their wallets out every time, require them to make a financial decision every time. Find out how much they value the Disney experience.

Thanks for the update, Al!

Since I like to visit Disneyland about 12 times a year and the world revolves around me, how about replacing APs with discounted 12 packs of tickets. Let's bump out those who clog the park by going 40-50 times a year, or make them pay for it. (With exceptions for the good-looking frequent visitors of Micechat!)

If there are 850K APs and Disney wants to reduce this #, they should keep up the steep annual price increases.

I also don't drink coffee, but people I know seem to like Peet's more than Starbuck's, and Disneyland should put quality first. The McDonald's association was embarrassing, though I don't think Disney has ever had impressive fast food.

[BlueSkyDriveBy]

Originally Posted by WDW1974

I truly hope George realizes what an amazing opportunity he has been blessed with and realizes that DL is a whole lot more than simply a business. In other words, I hope he's learned a lot since his last disasterous stint in Anaheim.

I believe what George realizes, if anything, is that his days at Disney are numbered. Which is why he got the gig in the first place.

Awesome post!

[hollywood1939]

My thoughts on the article:

With the AP's what I think they should do is eliminate the SoCal AP's altogether and just stick with Deluxe and Premium passes. They already skyrocketed the price of Premiums which have to block out dates to lessen attendance but I don't think that will go far enough. If you just keep Deluxe and Premium passes, the prices are so high that a lot of people will not be able to afford to buy them.

With the sponsorships, I'm not all that bothered by it. First, the existing coffee at DLR is terrible. I'm not a big fan of Starbucks' house coffee due to bitterness but the coffee now is even worse! Second, if you look at Tomorrowland '55, it was nothing but a land to promote a bunch of companies' crap.

With George Kalogridis, it'll be interesting to see how he does. I'm glad he has theme park experience and is really hands on. I also hope he can keep DLR and the City of Anaheim relations as well as Ed did.

[hollywood1939]

Originally Posted by WDW1974

The reason George has lasted as long as he has is testament to the way Disney is run. They recycle execs like baseball recycles managers. George also has a habit of showing up just when things are at a crucial point and then taking the credit when they inevitably get better.

Anybody reminded of Pressler when reading this? First the stores then the resorts...

[Roo719]

I so am crying over the coffee.

This is beautiful.

Peace,
Roo

[techskip]

I've already said my peace in another thread. I question this decision and worry that George owes too many "political favors" to be anything but a "yes man". Even if he supports changes, it doesn't mean the DLR President has the power to actually make them anymore.

[MAH4546]

The problem, IMO, is the SoCal APs. Get rid of them. Deluxe and Premium are priced right.

Originally Posted by flynnibus

well how many people eat dinner past 9-10pm? Not much point in keeping expensive restaurants open that late

That's one thing I hate about Disneyland. I live in LA, but where I'm from, dinnertime is 9PM-10PM. So annoying how difficult it is to get food past 10.

[sir clinksalot]

Originally Posted by sediment

Problem is that there are approximately 700,000 mega-geeks. Only 150,000 or so high school punks.

Honestly, my guess is 400,000 SoCal AP's, 200,000 Deluxe AP's and 150,000 Premium AP's. I mean, MiceChat has 40,000 members, and not all of us are Premium AP holders. In fact, it's probably in the 15% to 20% range. If even that high.

Originally Posted by CaliforniaAdventurer

Why can't they keep Tower of Terror, Goofy's Flight School, Screamin and other attractions open in between the showings?

Agreed. I've never gotten this idea of "everybody must see the show or parade and we must close the park". It doesn't work in Florida, and it doesn't work at DCA.

Originally Posted by techskip

I've already said my peace in another thread. I question this decision and worry that George owes too many "political favors" to be anything but a "yes man". Even if he supports changes, it doesn't mean the DLR President has the power to actually make them anymore.

I don't think any DLR President has had the power to make change since Jack Lindquist. Matt did great with what he had, but that was only after the top brass also saw that there was a problem with the 50th and decided to throw money at it.

Also, something that hasn't been mentioned ... anybody know anything about the relationship between George and John Lasseter? They both come from the same cloth as far as starting in the park, albeit on different coasts.

[Crazee4mm]

Seeing as many AP holders don't even arrive at the parks until after 5:00 (some of us still hold down jobs during the day and are within driving distance), and the Showpasses are to be distributed via existing FastPass machines (I know, it's a rumor but it's a good one), will there be any left for when the "typical" annual passholder shows up? I know that on busy days, Space Mountain FastPasses run out early in the day. If you are not there early on, you don't get one. With a set amount of available FastPasses per attraction, it is common to see the FastPass machines closed early due to the allotted amount having been distributed for the day. Speaking as an average AP holder, will I have to arrive at DCA as soon as it opens in order to get my ShowPass? And how will this work when an extra show is added at the last minute (i.e. Fantasmic!) on extremely crowded days (can't believe I wrote that about DCA!)?

I wish Disney would just "cowboy up" and make an OFFICIAL decision on Captain Eo. Yay or nay. The rest of the world seems to have put Michael Jackson's legacy in perspective to a point where most people seem comfortable. Both extremes, the raving Jackson "fanatics", and the "Jackson as pervert" camps have respectfully lowered their voices. The world will celebrate this man just as a smaller band of people will continue to express their opinions that he was a monster. Disneyland is not the battleground. A quality PRODUCT was created by Disney/Lucasfilm/M. Jackson for the enjoyment of fans to take a 20 minute break from reality and just enjoy a song and dance. To give in to the minority who decry this man at the expense of his work and the majority's wishes (just looking on the MiceChat message boards...among many others) would be a disservice to both the film's creators and fans. George Carlin used to fight for a persons freedom of speech. That always included the freedom to NOT see something when given the opportunity to make that choice. To not bring Captain Eo back makes the decision for ALL OF US...That is not a freedom. To bring it back gives us all the choice to either see it or not. It's OUR choice. Nobody is forcing you to see it if you choose not to. By keeping it mostly (except for a lousy YouTube vid) out of the publics ability to see it in it's proper venue is to dictate to the public that NOBODY gets to see it. Why give the power of those who DON'T want to see it more weight than to those of us who do? As you may have guessed, I want to see Captain Eo back in the Magic Eye Theater. It seems to me to be the best option as opposed to months and months of more HISTA. Captain Eo would absorb hundreds of people per showing and absorb even more hundreds waiting in line. To stop the return of Captain Eo for the MILLIONS of people who would see it at DL (if given the freedom of that option) at the request of those few who want to yell at others who DO want to see it doesn't make sense to me. It just gives encouragement to those who gain importance from making sure that we don't see anything they don't want us to see. They are making the choice for all of us. Disney just doesn't want to make waves. Disney needs to take a stand and stick by it! That reminds me..any signs of an official "Song of the South" DVD yet? It's always at the top of Ebay/Netflix/Amazon etc. "wish list"s of their customers. Don't want to see something? DON'T! Just don't step on my freedom by making the choice for me!

[SnorkletsMom]

I've never understood why the powers that be think that anyone would pay the same price for DCA as they do for DL when not only are there fewer (good) things to do, but they close it so early. DCA's operating hours need to be in line with DL's.

I know this will be a really unpopular idea, but why not charge for showpasses at the gate? Want to see this show or that one, add it to the price of admission and get a guaranteed seat.

APs...well, I'm on both sides of the fence. I personally love our APs and we generally spend a LOT of money on junk when we're at the park. (well, the situation has changed but I hope not for too long) but I also really hate huge crowds. So if need be, yes, eliminate the SoCal APs. Raise the prices on the rest of the APs. But keep the monthly payment plan so that those who really want passes for their family can still maybe afford them. I'm not an elitist who thinks that only the wealthy should have APs, but I recognize that something has to be done to keep the park experience a good one for everybody.

George K? I honestly don't know. Time will tell, but I have the feeling that it doesn't matter too much who is in "charge" of DL nowadays, it's Iger who is making the decisions and it's his way or the highway.

[Eagleman]

*I am reserving judgment on the new President George K
I always give a person chance ,already he going have alot on his plate for ED
left alot...only time will tell how he will treat the CM's and the guest at the resort!
I do feel "HOPEFUL"......he will do a good job!
**Showticket I not sure of...?
Iam sick of thos come to Show and do the CAMPLAND thing
They so " "rude" " putting blackets out hours before the show and takeing more room that they need....
Disney need do something !
***Starbucks it's not bad Ideal coming on Main St.
for me I do not like starbuck I like other reader ,7-11 coffee guy get plan coffee put my own goodies in it -paid for it -get going...

[DisneyIPresume]

This logo is what was on the white styrofoam Sunkist cups that were distributed from the Citrus House (minus the Asian writing lol)...


I don't have any problem with Starbucks cups in the park. Not that the Sunkist cups were hideous. It's just not that big of a deal. Especically for Walt.

[lighttragic]

Annual Pass Issue-
Eliminate So cal passes raise Delux passports to the cost of the current premium and Make premium a similar cost to what they charge for the two park pass in Tokyo. Its around $777 for juniors 13-17,and people 18 and over for kids up to 13 , its $555 and seniors over 60 its $610.00. By pricing the premium at this structure and eliminating so cal, this would get the passport system back to how it was in th 1980's where it wasnt an overburden and crowding issue. People who still come 10 plus times a year are still getting the moneys worth. Just my two cents