Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 30
  1. #1

    • Angel Fan MC Man
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Beautiful Oxnard, CA
    Posts
    24,291
    Blog Entries
    7

    What's The Problem With Presenteeism?

    As I have posted before, I am a Disneyland employee from another generation - so I'd like to know why some people have a problem with the new "Presenteeism" policy that I have been reading about.
    If Disneyland CMs are chronically late or absent, shouldn't they be fired? What's wrong with that? I know that I would have been fired from DL during my years there, if I had treated my job that way. And I worked in the troubled pre-Eisner period.
    And in my professional life I KNOW I would be fired for acting that way.
    Is the controversy surrounding the way the park management might be - gee, believe it or not - mishandling the situation?
    Or has the work ethic of CM's changed to the point where management is happy just to see people showing up nowadays?
    I'm a long removed outsider now that still cares very deeply for the park (I still can't call it a resort, sorry).
    God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference.

  2. #2

    • MiceChat Round-Up Crew
    • Godwin Glacier, Alaska
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Woodland Hills, CA
    Posts
    7,773

    Re: What's The Problem With Presenteeism?

    For those of us who are not CMs... and who may or may not want to comment on this subject... could someone please post an easy-to-understand description of exactly how the "Presenteeism" policy works? Thank you.
    "Yesterday, a man walked up to me and said, 'Isn't it a shame that Walt Disney couldn't be here to see this?' and I said, "He did see this, that's why it's here."
    -Art Linkletter July 17, 2005-


    When you wish upon a star your dreams come true.


  3. #3

    • Angel Fan MC Man
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Beautiful Oxnard, CA
    Posts
    24,291
    Blog Entries
    7

    Re: What's The Problem With Presenteeism?

    After I started this thread, I went back and looked at an Al Lutz column from September that tells me a great deal...here's a paragraph of note.

    "Of course the big elephant in the room that no one in TDA is willing to discuss is the dollar amount Disneyland is offering to these potential Cast Members, as most Disneyland openings start in the 7 to 8 dollar an hour range. Meanwhile in Orange County places like Home Depot and In N' Out are starting their new cashiers and front line employees at 11 to 12 dollars an hour, and getting a better quality person coming in to fill out those job applications. While the TDA executives wish their hourly Cast Members would live up to the standards of the past, the pay scales have dropped dramatically in the intervening years.
    Some statistics were making the rounds in TDA recently that showed that the average Cast Member in 1980, Disneyland's 25th Anniversary, made $9.93 an hour back then. Adjusted for inflation, that would be just over 25 dollars an hour in 2005 "Disney" dollars! And the average seniority of the 1980 Cast Members was just over 11 years. Sadly, the average Cast Member in 2005 is only making $9.89, and it should come as no surprise that after Presenteeism wreaked havoc in the hourly ranks, the average seniority of a 2005 Cast member (of those that are left) is now only nine months!"

    _Speaking as an employee of the 70's, I did feel a very special dedication in working at DL. And I can see where Disney management is obviously at fault. Is it all about the money, though? I'd like to get some thoughts.
    Tnank You.
    God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference.

  4. #4

    • insufferable know-it-all
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Location: Location
    Posts
    9,648

    Re: What's The Problem With Presenteeism?

    Presenteeism, in principle, is a great idea. OF COURSE workers should show up for their shifts.

    The first round of firings for this, made perfect sense. However, it created a new problem: CM shortage. This, in itself, is a problem with an easy answer: hire more CMs. However, this didn't happen. Why? In a word: Pay. Disney simply couldn't fill the roles fast enough, so the CMs who remained, those who had not gone overboard on absences, were asked, then told, that they had to work overtime. Then the shortage became so bad that scheduling would no longer work with their mostly college-aged CMs to schedule around their classes, and began telling CMs they had to work when they were supposed to be in class. Those CMs prioritized - and quit. This left an even greater shortage, while also narrowing the pool of available hires, because students cannot take jobs that won't work around their classes. At what Disney pays, who can afford to work for them besides students? Certainly not people who have to live off the money.

    So during all this time, the remaining cast is working overtime week after week, month after month. This takes a toll. People get worn out, they get sick. Absences go up. People who were fine under normal schedules are suddenly going overboard on absences due to illnesses brought on by overwork. They get fired, Disneyland is short even MORE CMs, this time CMs who were probably pretty decent attendance-wise, till they were overworked. Meanwhile, more people get angry at the overtime, and continue to quit in droves.

    Disney does everything they can to attract new CMs - except the one thing that would actually solve the problem: raise wages SIGNIFICANTLY.

    People will put up with a heck of a lot more for $12/hr than they would at $7.75/hr. More people will be willing to work for Disney and meet their stringent standards. The existing cast will see a surge in morale as paychecks climb to something almost resembling a living wage. With more folks coming in, mandatory overtime will drop, and possibly finally go away. Good CMs will no longer drop off due to exhaustion, and the flood of presenteeism firings will finally be stemmed.

    But that, of course, would require Disney to pay higher wages. The one thing they refuse to do, even as they watch potential sales walk away from crowded restaurants and closed shops. One can assume they've hired an economist to determine which scenario ultimately results in higher profits - but I doubt it.

    Unusually and exceedingly peculiar and altogether quite impossible to describe...



  5. #5

    • Gloomy Day, probably rain
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Orange, CA
    Posts
    624

    Re: What's The Problem With Presenteeism?

    Being a CM in the 80's I can remember being paid about 50 cents to a dollar more than low wage when I started. Once I went from "Seasonal" (holidays only and summer) to "Part Time Casual" (20 - 30 hours a week) my pay increased. That was the whole incentive for staying plus a schedule I could work around my school.

    BUT....

    The issue that the Park (it will always be the "Park" to me) CM's isn't new. Just worse than ever before. When I worked what would happen would be that once summer was over the amount of CMs available would get less and less. By Thanksgiving we'd be working a skeleton crew. Now I worked in the Parking Lot so many people went "Inside" and could easily be pulled to work the Lot so it wasn't like we still didn't have people to come back. The problem was many people that left just couldn't come back because of shortages in the Park. I started working 40 hour shifts up to 60 hour shifts and one week I basically just didn't leave! Why? Because not only do many of the seasonal people leave but many of the part-time people are only available weekends. PLUS the PARK runs around the clock. 25 hours a day as we used to say. So when you're in college and working say Sunday from 6 pm - 2 am and have class at 9 AM on Monday you had a tendancy to quit. Personally I left just because of that reason. Sure I could work 30 hours but I couldn't keep doing those Sundays until 2 or 4 am. I screwed up in school because of it.

    So saying that, it makes sense that the Park is having so much difficulty staffing. I stayed in the 80s because I made good money and considered going permanent. The "Presentee" issue wasn't around. If you were late 15 minutes you were docked 30 that was about it. The new CM is required to be on time (good luck! parking, changing, prep for being on stage takes time), make a measly salary, work extravegant and strange hours, go to school (generally), have a social life, study for school and get good grades in college??? When gee, you can work at any retail job for the same or more money, not have to work until 4am, not have to dress a certain way, and not have to deal with Disney Guests??? I think I'd take the retail job or working at McDonalds over the first option.

    I think what makes it worse is the amount of "Lifers" that are gone from the Park. Those people were the back bone of staffing.

  6. #6

    • Dont make me unfriend you
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Salt Lake City, Utah
    Posts
    1,146

    Re: What's The Problem With Presenteeism?

    Quote Originally Posted by mistyisjafo
    I think what makes it worse is the amount of "Lifers" that are gone from the Park. Those people were the back bone of staffing.
    From what I read on this forum and another, it sounds like DL is trying to get rid of the "Lifers". The Lifers make too much in wage and benefits. So, make policies and do things to either fire them or get them to quit. Then DL thinks they can hire more people for less $ and benefits. Let the people work for a couple, few years then get rid of them and get somebody else.

    DL is trying to cut costs on CMs. Best way, they think, is to lose anybody who stays around too long and starts climbing the pay scale.

  7. #7

    • no flash photography...
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    In my own little world..
    Posts
    13,287

    Re: What's The Problem With Presenteeism?

    imo...if they hired who would ever take the "low" wage now and they have a park full of people who were hired because they have a pulse and don't do a good job...well, these same people are not going to change their work habits just because more money is trown at them. They would still get fired and when/if they hire people at a hire wage is when the improvements would come in.

    Regardless these people took the job knowing beforehand what the wage was. If they don't like it they should quit, not just stay sucking at their jobs or whining about it. That behavior I don't understand. Oh, and that "they would be making $25 an hour now" is just silly. No industry has kept up with those types of wages. The national min wage is not $6.75 an hour it's lower. The $6.75 is a california thing and disney is starting them above that.

  8. #8

    • Why do you keep talking?
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Here, but not here here
    Posts
    3,649

    Re: What's The Problem With Presenteeism?

    Quote Originally Posted by SCUBAbe
    If they don't like it they should quit...
    Isn't that one of the biggest problems about presenteeism?
    "Tonight I wash my hands of you
    You set the bar I could not live up to
    Tonight the light is breaking through
    So thank you very little and send me postcards from hell"
    Zebrahead

  9. #9

    • Cast Member
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Half way around the world from Anaheim
    Posts
    148

    Re: What's The Problem With Presenteeism?

    There isn't a problem with Presenteeism.

    It is a very liberal attendance policy, that if implemented at any other company would be unheard of. Every company has a standard... Presenteeism is the rigid enforcement of a standard that Disneyland has had in place for decades. The problem lies with the cast members that became accustomed to the relaxation of parts of the punative measures taken when the amount of infractions triggered a supervisory response. To be far to all cast members, the strict adherance to the standard was made known. Its not the company's fault for cast members triggering their own termination, especially if that cast member had only been with the company a short time. An employee has a responsibility to their employer to show up, on time and ready for a shift that they have been scheduled for. Not being a manager or a person associated with the concept of the policy I will state my opinion about the origin of the policy. It is my opinion that the policy was set in place to allow for sick days and the rare occasion that problems for showing up on time or at all have come up. Perfectly understandable. But when a cast member decides that they just don't want to come in, thats unacceptable. I am a military man as you can probably tell by my screenname. Absenteeism and tardiness are unacceptable. Oversleep once... eh it happens, twice... ok whats going on is there something that needs to be fixed? Third time is habitual and it needs to be explained to a higher authority. No sympathy from me if a cast member earns the maximum allowable points in a short amount of time. Sorry if it makes fellow Cast Members mad, but I just don't see how you can complain about a problem caused by your own actions.

  10. #10

    • no flash photography...
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    In my own little world..
    Posts
    13,287

    Re: What's The Problem With Presenteeism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hector
    Isn't that one of the biggest problems about presenteeism?
    I thought the major gripe was comiing from being fired for either being late to much or absent to much and then getting fired. It must be terrible to be expected to show up for the job you were hired to do. If it's a prblem with working around school schedules or whatever life plans they have. then they need to find a job willing to work around such schedules. They are choosing to work at DL. they are not being forced to stay.

  11. #11

    • Dont make me unfriend you
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Salt Lake City, Utah
    Posts
    1,146

    Re: What's The Problem With Presenteeism?

    When many of the part time people started working at DL, they were expected to available 40 hrs/week during the summer and Christmas season. During the "non-peak" season, the part time people were only expected to work the weekends.

    With so many fulltime CMs going (either fired or quiting) they are forcing the "part-time" CM's to work 40+ housr all the time.

    Many of the CM's are not complaining, they are just quiting.

    I have no problem with "Presenteeism", however, it sounds like DL is just using as a club to get rid of al the "highly paid" CM's. You know, those that have been there the longest. And bring in new blood.

    There used to be CM's that had years of experience at DL. They were very loyal and loved the Park and Walt's dream. It sounds like most of them are gone. Some where I heard that the average CM now has only 9 months of experience at DL.

    With the lack of CMs and the fact that so many of the CMs are so new, is anybody surprisd that the quality of service has gone down? The quality of service was one of the things that made DL magical. That quality is being lost.

    We've talked alot about the cheapness of the new rides and bad themeing, that's another area were where the magic is being lost.

    Soon, DL may be no better then Knotts.

    EDIT: SUBAbe, did you read Mirrigoon's post?
    Last edited by Garrett240; 12-03-2005 at 02:24 PM.

  12. #12

    • no flash photography...
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    In my own little world..
    Posts
    13,287

    Re: What's The Problem With Presenteeism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Garrett240

    EDIT: SUBAbe, did you read Mirrigoon's post?
    yes I did. I'm required to work overtime at my job as well. I'm also required to come in and work some saturdays....which is overtime. I'm required to stay late if we are still busy at the time I'm suppose to be off. I'm required to be at work on time or I get points agaisnt me. I'm required to be back from breaks and lunches on time or I get points agaisnt me. If I'm out I get points gaisnt me and if I chose to not come in on a monday no matter the reason, no matter if I have a doctors note or not I get twice the points for missing that day. If I get 5 points in a 5 month period I get written up. If I get 7 I get fired. These points roll off 5 months from when they start. My last job was the same and we would loose half a training class because of absentses. When they were in training if they missed 4 days in 6 months they were fired. So, welcome to the work force DL cm's. I think you will find this to be the same almost anywhere. The only jobs I had that didn't have this type of system was retail and serving, but it was very difficult to call in for those jobs. Often they would force me to come in sick or not, with threats of being written up or fired.

  13. #13

    • Angel Fan MC Man
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Beautiful Oxnard, CA
    Posts
    24,291
    Blog Entries
    7

    Re: What's The Problem With Presenteeism?

    Given what I've read here so far, it appears that things have changed a lot for CM's since the days that I worked there, and not for the better. The average CM now has NINE MONTHS experience? Is that for all jobs, across the board? It seems incredible to me, even with Disneyland's never-ending greed and management ineptitude.
    Please understand where I'm coming from. I respect all my fellow MC'ers that are fanatic in their love for Disney - guests and CM's alike. I love Disneyland too - I spent a chunk of my life working in the "Tragic Kingdom". Like many others of you, it is precisely because I love it - that it hurts so much to see what's happening.
    Last edited by Radiobarry; 12-03-2005 at 03:29 PM.
    God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference.

  14. #14

    • Cast Member
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Half way around the world from Anaheim
    Posts
    148

    Re: What's The Problem With Presenteeism?

    I don't think that management neccessarily want to lose the senior CMs. Well trained and loyal employees are hard to find these days. However, with union contracts and the loss of "lazy" CMs, these senior CMs have to pick up the slack. When a stocker and floor person elect not to show up for a shift you have to rely on the entire team to work without them. I don't work in stores or foods but I can imagine that covering a register and stocking a shelf and bringing more product to the stockroom can be rough on anyone. The ones busting their backs covering for them and not getting paid any different are the getting upset and after a lot of frustration they quit. Presenteeism isn't meant to get rid of people. Its meant to bring people to work and help those people out that have been busting their hump for someone who doesn't show up.

    And the average of Cast Members having only 9 months working at the resort the most likely the average for all Cast Members and not one department inparticular.

  15. #15

    • love my friends
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    canadian living in las vegas, nv
    Posts
    36,995

    Re: What's The Problem With Presenteeism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Radiobarry
    As I have posted before, I am a Disneyland employee from another generation - so I'd like to know why some people have a problem with the new "Presenteeism" policy that I have been reading about.
    If Disneyland CMs are chronically late or absent, shouldn't they be fired? What's wrong with that? I know that I would have been fired from DL during my years there, if I had treated my job that way. And I worked in the troubled pre-Eisner period.
    And in my professional life I KNOW I would be fired for acting that way.
    Is the controversy surrounding the way the park management might be - gee, believe it or not - mishandling the situation?
    Or has the work ethic of CM's changed to the point where management is happy just to see people showing up nowadays?
    I'm a long removed outsider now that still cares very deeply for the park (I still can't call it a resort, sorry).
    I am A CM.. and totally agree with you.. I have NO PROBLEM with their policy.. the problem is people were abusing this and actually still are in my department.. We have a guy who has 55 points.. hmmmm shouldnt he be gone by now..... I think some of this is favortism

    I have 27 points I have gtotten in 11 months but I WAS ACTUALLY sick..... my points will start dissappearing soon..... thank god.. but I think disney presentism is a good thing.. but PLEASE management follow through on verbals, writtens , susp[ensions and firing.. pelase

    Friends for life

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Log In Problem!!!!
    By spookyatomicking in forum Disney Interactive and Game Industry Discussion
    Replies: 13
    Last Post: 05-10-2008, 12:17 PM
  2. Anyone having the same problem????
    By _blackbeltsrule123 in forum Disney Interactive and Game Industry Discussion
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 09-23-2007, 11:57 AM
  3. Any one else have this problem????
    By MagicMoonlight in forum Disney Interactive and Game Industry Discussion
    Replies: 16
    Last Post: 11-24-2006, 05:43 AM
  4. AIM problem?
    By BDBopper in forum The Tech Lounge
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 04-04-2006, 02:02 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •