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  1. #1

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    The perfect contract would look like...?

    Congratulations to Disney for finally bumping up the starting wage. This is something that has been needed for a long time. Hopefully, this is the first step in a long road to improving wages and working conditions at Disneyland.

    Now, the question is "What would be your idea of a perfect contract be?" If you could write the contract, what would it look like? What wage scale would you put in? What other working conditions would you have?

    Remember, TDA reads these threads, so be realistic. Saying that you want starting wages of $15/hour will get laughed at. But in all honest, this is a question that Disney has never actually asked the rank and file before. Unions make pie-in-the-sky requests and Disney attempts to bring back slavery during every contract negotiation, and eventually something is agreed to. Theoretically, the union represents the workers, but we all know that often something gets lost in translation. So here is a chance to let Disney hear it straight from the workers.

    Remember, contracts go both ways. It can't be all just for you. You have to give something to the company. So be balanced. If there is nothing in it for Disney, then Disney has no reason to go along with it. Be realistic.

    Here's a small sample of what I would put into a contract:

    Wages: The new starting wage is better. Aside from needing to survive, no one really comes to Disney to make a lot of money. And honestly, I could teach my dog to do most of the jobs at Disneyland, so it's unrealistic to ask for NASA wages. However, I do think the scale needs to be bumped up. The COL for Orange County is outrageous. Your CMs love Disney, that's why we're there. But reward our love by loving us back and at least give us the ability to not just eek out a living, but enjoy a bit of life as well. Walt knew that the only reason Disneyland survived those first years was because of the CMs, not because of the Park.

    Reverse Appraisals: I am never going to let this die. I've been trying to get this going for over ten years. Performance appraisals are an excellent tool to let a CM know how they are doing, but there is no method to let the upper echelon know how the lower echelon is doing. So we CMs need the ability to rate Leads and Supervision (I know, old school). How will you know if you have a bad Lead? This is how.

    Doubleback: Increase the amount of time between shifts to 12 hours. Due to the distance CMs have to travel now in order to afford housing, commute times are astronomical, especially if a rain drop falls! Give us a chance to recover. Either that or put us up in a motel room if the time between shifts is too short!

    Cast Cafeterias: Non-profit! Our wages already hurt. Don't make it worse by overcharging for food. That's what Guests are for!

    Holidays: The new holiday schedule is weak. I'm all for having CRs work holidays, that's what they're there for. But making people wait for so long for al the good holiday pay may backfire. CRs just call in on holidays because there is no incentive to work.

    Benefits: This is a tough one. We need them but it is very expensive for employers. Yeah, maybe only full timers should get them. But if Disney wants CMs to work 40 hours a week, then Disney needs to understand that this will be their only job and must compensate them accordingly.

    Minimum number of full timers: No avoiding full time pay and benefits by hiring only part timers! Disney must commit to a proportion of full timers.

    Anyway, those would be some of my proposals. How about yours? And yes, even non-CMs can play. After all, Disney wants to know the cost of your soul... Muhahahahahaha!

    Lighthope

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  2. #2

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    Re: The perfect contract would look like...?

    Your ideas are good but I don't think that Disney really wants a stable work force because it would lead to a strong union which would put economic pressure on them in the long run.

    As annoying as the turnover is, as long as it doesn't turn into a crisis situation that either requires closing a significant and noticeable number of facilities and attractions and thereby lead to bad publicity in the media and airing of its policies, I think they are content to accept the constant recruiting and training as the cost of doing business.

    And I believe that they perceive that as a lower cost than the alternative.

  3. #3

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    Re: The perfect contract would look like...?

    I agree with you wholeheartedly when it comes to the advantages of a transient work force. There is method to Disney's madness when it comes to wanting to keep wages low and working conditions substandard. "Keep things good enough to attract new workers, but not so good that they stay beyond a certain time."

    I heard/read somewhere that it takes about five years for a company to break even on an employee when hiring and training costs are factored in. I have no idea what the break even point is for Disney.

    Still, though, I think it would be educational for Disney to know what exactly its CMs are looking for. While Disney currently seems to want to keep turnover high, who knows what the future holds. Maybe Disney will one day treat their employees good again.

    Lighthope

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  4. #4

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    Re: The perfect contract would look like...?

    I like the cm cafeteria idea although i imagine if all you had to do was be a cm to eat free a lot of cm would just eat there all the time.Lord knows i would if they were passing out free food.I think they'd either have to give meal tickets out to curb people who were not working just showing up for free meals on there days off.I think a better solution would be Disney subsidizing the food further so prices were lower.

  5. #5

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    Re: The perfect contract would look like...?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ruiner View Post
    I like the cm cafeteria idea although i imagine if all you had to do was be a cm to eat free a lot of cm would just eat there all the time.

    I think they'd either have to give meal tickets out to curb people who were not working
    Once upon a time, long long ago, they did give food vouchers. Only drawback was that it was counted as income. So if you didn't eat all your voucher, you still got taxed on the whole thing.

    Lighthope

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  6. #6

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    Re: The perfect contract would look like...?

    1) Definitely increase the wages. Yes, I know I just got a raise; yesterday, in fact, and that's all well and good, and I've gone from $8.20 last February to $9.05 now. But now that I'm full time, my ENTIRE raise goes to pay for those benefits that Disney was good enough to let me sign up for, so to me, there is no pay increase. I agree with the above poster that said a LIVABLE wage-- I know I don't work at NASA, but considering what I do for the parks and the amount of information and actual CASH I'm responsible for, a little more is not asking too much. Heck, the burger slingers at McD's make more than I do..

    2) Agree with the lower price food at the park for CM's. Hello, we aren't making that much money in the first place, and how do you expect us to eat??

    3) I personally live close enough to the parks that travel is not a big deal for me. I also own my home. But I know MANY CM's that travel from Riverside and even further to come to work each day, and most of the money they make is taken by transportation costs and the time they spend on the road to get to and from work is trying, to say the least. A 10 or 12 hour turn around would be MUCH easier on those people that live further away--NOT for everyone, but those who have a LEGAL, permanent address that is more than 20 miles away..

    4) Can you get those people that work for Sodexho to move a little faster?? We only have 30 minutes, and most of that 30 minutes is waiting in line at the grill or the cash register and not eating. Can't they pre-cook a couple burgers when they know the lunch rush is gonna hit? Even if they just "half cook" the burgers until someone orders it, a couple minutes saved is a good thing so maybe I won't have to inhale my food and try to run back to my place of work within 30 minutes. And why if they have a daily special are they out of it before 1pm???


    I have to say that it's NOT the pay that is keeping me at the resort. In fact, I had a job offer that paid me more than TWICE the new hourly wage just recently-- it's my leads and my fellow CM's that keep me there. I can't imagine going to work every day at another job where it's not FUN to be there, nor can I imagine a place where I can't make a little "magic" to brighten a kid's (or their parent's) day.. I honestly think that's one of the perks to my job-- the little bit of "magic" that I can create on a daily basis when I'm there. When I have a guest that says "THANK YOU" for taking their money because it was a pleasure to talk to me, or that little crying kid that was at my ticket window this morning and was happy to get a sticker-- that's what makes this job special.

  7. #7

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    Re: The perfect contract would look like...?

    hmmmmmm

  8. #8

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    Re: The perfect contract would look like...?

    .
    Last edited by mainstreetcm; 11-20-2007 at 05:19 AM.
    Class of 2005...

  9. #9

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    Re: The perfect contract would look like...?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lighthope View Post
    Here's a small sample of what I would put into a contract:

    Wages: The new starting wage is better. Aside from needing to survive, no one really comes to Disney to make a lot of money. And honestly, I could teach my dog to do most of the jobs at Disneyland, so it's unrealistic to ask for NASA wages. However, I do think the scale needs to be bumped up. The COL for Orange County is outrageous. Your CMs love Disney, that's why we're there. But reward our love by loving us back and at least give us the ability to not just eek out a living, but enjoy a bit of life as well. Walt knew that the only reason Disneyland survived those first years was because of the CMs, not because of the Park.
    Here's my thoughts on wages.

    Disney feels that they don't NEED to pay us higher wages because of the "Disney Difference" they are often touting to everyone. Theme park admission is a big part of that Difference and so my question is how many of us CM's would give up their 'Get into Disneyland free everyday" cards to recieve a couple dollars more per hour?

    Say we all started at $11.00/$12.00 and could only use our maingate pass to access the parks. That would be only 16 free visits and on top of that we COULD NOT get our family or friends in for free. Would you give up your free admission everyday for higher wages, but could still go to the parks occasionally?

    Secondly shouldn't higher pay come with higher responsibilities. For example they don't throw a brand new cast member straight into Hat Writing. You have to be trained to do that and naturally it comes with a little more pay (not much but a little bit helps). Trainers, Leads and then of course our Managers make more money. The higher you get up that ladder the greener it gets.

    Reverse Appraisals: I am never going to let this die. I've been trying to get this going for over ten years. Performance appraisals are an excellent tool to let a CM know how they are doing, but there is no method to let the upper echelon know how the lower echelon is doing. So we CMs need the ability to rate Leads and Supervision (I know, old school). How will you know if you have a bad Lead? This is how.
    I'm okay with this except with Disney it would take half a million years for any action to take place. Performance appraisals or not there will always be people working in a supervision role who just shouldn't be.

    Doubleback: Increase the amount of time between shifts to 12 hours. Due to the distance CMs have to travel now in order to afford housing, commute times are astronomical, especially if a rain drop falls! Give us a chance to recover. Either that or put us up in a motel room if the time between shifts is too short!
    I don't know if I agree with this personally (since I need all the hours I can get) but if someone makes this kind of preference it should at least be acknoweledged and attempted to be accomdated.

    Cast Cafeterias: Non-profit! Our wages already hurt. Don't make it worse by overcharging for food. That's what Guests are for!
    I totally agree here. We should be getting our food at cost. Not only is Disney making a profit (a huge one) off of our guests but they are also making plenty on us as well. If enough of us would just bring our own lunch maybe they would get the idea.

    Holidays: The new holiday schedule is weak. I'm all for having CRs work holidays, that's what they're there for. But making people wait for so long for al the good holiday pay may backfire. CRs just call in on holidays because there is no incentive to work.
    I think ALL employee's should be paid holiday pay. Disney expects us to work while others play. I understand that but when it comes to holidays the hard working CM's that day should be compensated for what they are doing.

    Minimum number of full timers: No avoiding full time pay and benefits by hiring only part timers! Disney must commit to a proportion of full timers.
    Disney converts full timers about four times a year in my department. Thats once every three months. Disney is smart to only hire part times in the beginning. Those that stay onboard then can be bumped up to a full time role. I didn't expect to be hired full time and the next opportunity to go to that status will have me jumping.


    As for what I would like to see in a contract:

    Breaks: I would rather have one 15 minute break and then 45 minute lunch. Or I'd take no 15 minute break and have an hour lunch. Anyone who has been to the Inn Between knows how long it takes to get your food. And if you've been working quite hard a 15 minute break gives you just enough time to get comfortable and then boom....break is over.

    Walk in time: Even though it will never happen it would be nice if we could get some compensation for having to park in Klot and ride the shuttle over to harbor pointe.

    Split shifts: I'd like to have the ability to pick up another 4 hours shift in addition to the 4 hour shift that was scheduled. I really don't like having to come to work for just 4 hours and often try to extend to 6 or 8. Being able to just pick up another 4 hour shift elsewere (before or after) would be perfect.

    Wages: As I mentioned before. Would you give up your park admission privelages to gain a couple more dollars per hour?

    And finally I don't work at Disneyland to make lots of money. I make it by with what I need and some of what I enjoy. I work at Disneyland because I love the magic we CM's create each and everyday. I work here because of my interaction with our guests. I love the kids that come into our store. I love our first time guests and I even enjoy all of the Annual (P)assholders (Believe it or not my Traditions trainer called them that) that pay us a visit. Sure I could make more money working elsewhere but when I get old I'd rather reflect on the memories I have accumulated than on how much money I made in life.
    Last edited by mainstreetcm; 11-20-2007 at 05:32 AM.
    Class of 2005...

  10. #10

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    Re: The perfect contract would look like...?

    Lead rate and trainer rate should be different.
    Split shifts are a great idea.
    As for breaks, I'd like to see two 10s and one 45. That would make it a bit easier to eat, but wouldn't change lunch to social hour.

  11. #11

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    Re: The perfect contract would look like...?

    Quote Originally Posted by mrfantasmic View Post
    Lead rate and trainer rate should be different.
    Split shifts are a great idea.
    As for breaks, I'd like to see two 10s and one 45. That would make it a bit easier to eat, but wouldn't change lunch to social hour.
    Breaks and lunches are. for the most part, governed by state law. Disney isn't going to change that or it's basic policies based upon it unless it decides to get exceedingly generous and pay for them or extend them with pay. Like that's going to happen ....

  12. #12

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    Re: The perfect contract would look like...?

    I'm pretty sure State Law only mandates 10 mins and a half hour. At least, Starbucks does 10 minutes for its numerous breaks and 30 for lunch.
    45 for lunch and 10 minute breaks is actually reducing paid breaks 5 minutes.
    This could only really work in Attractions, stores, and Foods (non ODV) for the most part, where break areas are close to work areas. ODV has to get off stage.

  13. #13

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    Re: The perfect contract would look like...?

    Quote Originally Posted by mainstreetcm View Post
    Disney feels that they don't NEED to pay us higher wages because of the "Disney Difference" they are often touting to everyone. Theme park admission is a big part of that Difference
    If they are actually counting that as part of any serious compensation package, they are out of their minds!

    Disney wants you to come to the park so you can be familiar with it and be able to answer questions Guests have.

    Of course, they are not telling you that. They want you to think it's part of the compensation package.

    Breaks: I would rather have one 15 minute break and then 45 minute lunch. Or I'd take no 15 minute break and have an hour lunch.
    State law overrides this.

    For breaks, I would rather go back to rotation breaks. Vastly superior, and I could work a 12 hour shift with no fatigue. As it stand now with CDS, I refuse to work OT and I never extend. Until CDS is gone, I work to schedule and no further.

    Walk in time: Even though it will never happen it would be nice if we could get some compensation for having to park in Klot and ride the shuttle over to harbor pointe.
    Believe it or not, walk-in time is part of the walk time at the end of the shift. Technically, it's half at the beginning and half at the end, all rolled together at the end.

    Split shifts: I'd like to have the ability to pick up another 4 hours shift in addition to the 4 hour shift that was scheduled.
    No, this is a really bad idea. Disney will abuse this in ways you won't figure out until it is too late. Be prepared for a 4 hour shift, 4 hour break, and another 4 hour shift, resulting in a 12 hour work day with only 8 hours pay. Yeah, you get to sit around or bum around the resort for those 4 middle hours, but your day is shot. No going to the beach or doing anything really fun. Bad, bad idea.

    Wages: As I mentioned before. Would you give up your park admission privelages to gain a couple more dollars per hour?
    I don't think Disney is going to give anyone a couple more dollars an hour to give up park admission. In fact, whether letting someone in one day a year or 365 days a year, it costs them virtually the same...unless there happens to be a mad rush of free admits, then staffing becomes an issue. However, that's not a real problem. If the Guests (or CMs) don't spend enough during their free day in the park, Disney just closes early. What, you don't think they do that? Oh, yes they do! They've done it before! I was there and saw it happen! (I got to go home early, so I was happy!)

    Lighthope

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  14. #14

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    Re: The perfect contract would look like...?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lighthope View Post
    If they are actually counting that as part of any serious compensation package, they are out of their minds!

    Disney wants you to come to the park so you can be familiar with it and be able to answer questions Guests have.

    Of course, they are not telling you that. They want you to think it's part of the compensation package.
    I've heard this run-around plenty of times. Working at Disney doesn't pay well but with the oft-touted "Disney Difference" from TDA and our managers Disney honestly and truly does not feel they need to pay more.

    State law overrides this.

    For breaks, I would rather go back to rotation breaks. Vastly superior, and I could work a 12 hour shift with no fatigue. As it stand now with CDS, I refuse to work OT and I never extend. Until CDS is gone, I work to schedule and no further.
    I also pray for the end of CDS. In our department I think it actually causes more headaches than it actually works. It is not as efficient as rotation breaks would be. I figured the breaks were set through our Unions and I thought the state only governed our 30 minute lunch.

    Believe it or not, walk-in time is part of the walk time at the end of the shift. Technically, it's half at the beginning and half at the end, all rolled together at the end.
    Fair enough. I didn't know they were just rolled into one.

    No, this is a really bad idea. Disney will abuse this in ways you won't figure out until it is too late. Be prepared for a 4 hour shift, 4 hour break, and another 4 hour shift, resulting in a 12 hour work day with only 8 hours pay. Yeah, you get to sit around or bum around the resort for those 4 middle hours, but your day is shot. No going to the beach or doing anything really fun. Bad, bad idea.
    Then it should at least be available as a preference. Some of us need to work more than 4 hours and with the current way it is done we have to try and extend that single shift. If Disney had the ability to give split shifts to those that preference them it would be easier to recieve 8 paid hours or more a day.

    Of course there needs to be policies to keep things in order (so CM's aren't standing around for long periods of time beyond shifts) but along with 12 hour shift intervals it could still be made available as a scheduling preference.

    I don't think Disney is going to give anyone a couple more dollars an hour to give up park admission. In fact, whether letting someone in one day a year or 365 days a year, it costs them virtually the same...unless there happens to be a mad rush of free admits, then staffing becomes an issue. However, that's not a real problem. If the Guests (or CMs) don't spend enough during their free day in the park, Disney just closes early. What, you don't think they do that? Oh, yes they do! They've done it before! I was there and saw it happen! (I got to go home early, so I was happy!)
    I understand where you are coming from but I was simply asking that IF Disney would offer you more dollars per hour would you give up your theme park admission privelages. And it does cost Disney to give us that privelage. Whether it "costs" Disney anything to give us that privelage or not is debatable.

    And so my question is not do you think Disney would offer us more dollars per hour but IF they did would you give up your park access for more pay?
    Class of 2005...

  15. #15

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    Re: The perfect contract would look like...?

    $15/hour starting wage to do janitorial. for every one job that is easy to do, you've got others that demand a whole lot of work, like cleaning up vomit filled submarines in a rain storm for a 7 am early entry, and various other jobs. wages here are past the realm of good, more like awful. about a good 50-60% of my earnings a month go towards renting a dinky one bedroom room from someone, if I moved out, I either go to a slum with constant gang fights and graffiti, or move into a place that would consume about 90% of my monthly earnings.

    I frankly blame the very beast I work for driving the prices of rent and everything else sky high. wages have not increased with the amount of park visitors and cash pulled into the park, but the excuses from certain camps, fear of low income housing built around the resort's areas causing everything to look like hell, etc all combines to make a cm's life hell.

    if disney is so paranoid about auntie martha and her 950 crack babies moving into the resort corridors housing areas ruining the "show" they delicately spend the time spinning, yet breaking in other areas, why not create the solution yourself? make one of the hotels on your property a cast member rental area!

    I would gladly pay to rent a place on company property, it would make me feel more capable of doing my job. i'd rather have a quick 20 minute or less hop on a tram to harbor point versus what I have to take now to work. disney would also benefit, because as a result I have no real excuse to call in sick and spend my days recouping from work.

    on average, I can look at it taking about 4 hours a day via the bus system to go to work and back (2 one way, 2 another way) so make that a on average 11-12 hour day I work, 4 of that unpaid. move closer to the resort you say? hah. it's either time to look in slum lord areas around the resort, with horrible bus service (believe me, i've looked. alot of areas around it have bus service that last runs 8 pm at night, my shift starts at 12:10 am, so no go on that) or settle for a area with a 5 minute bus ride but at a cost of $980+ a month unfurnished right next to a sheraton. those of you who know the area, it's a place off wilken way.

    may I ask why the only people who get to experience a dream come true are those who file into the year of a million headaches gates everyday with visions of being a princess or buzz lightyear planted firmly in their brains, while cast members are forced to play second fiddle to a companies ever changing and demanding needs?

    putting aside all the hassles i'm mentioning, is the job a dream? yes it is, but only to a point. lets run down a list.

    managers with too much power in alot of cases, or misapplied power abilitys.

    larger and larger profits announced everyday (huge dca park renovation to the tune of $1 billion or so, princess division worth $4 billion, tween princess division worth $750 million or so, maingates alone pulling in $4 million a day before the overpriced churros and merchandise is pushed on the ticket holders) etc etc etc. need I go on?

    this does not factor in the massive cash windfalls pulled from movies, news/television networks, tv shows, and various other cornerstones of the disney empire.

    when do US employees, from the ride operator to the cash register operator to the cook to the janitor, start to see the benefit to all this cash going around? sorry, a "but you bring magic and smiles to millions a year" doesn't put food on my table and the ability to travel, oh never mind, that isn't possible with the aging seniority people taking all the prime travel times and leaving table scraps for the new hires.... "you are to be fully able at all times for the companies needs"

    ever wonder why retention rates are so bad? about 2-3 months ago, it was announced that 3rd shift custodial had about 47 openings. then it was down to about 18 or so. last week, it now has 29 openings or so. umm? people I hired in with have quit, been fired/terminated, or just left in disgust at the demands placed on a workforce that isn't even paid a fair wage in the first place.

    weed out the "oh, I can do anything! I can take a night schedule, and yet still go see all my hot new music bands then go into work" people who can't balance work and play, and you've got some left over that won't tolerate what is offered.

    is it the end of a era for people hiring into disney that want to at least grow in the company for 15 years or so, or more? sadly, I feel the answer is yes.

    Disneyland, the theme park started by a man with a dream, is now not much better then the mcdonalds right across the harbor pointe gate. the only difference between the two places? different businesses. the similar issues? those who walk through the door with the golden arches on their hat or through the gate with the disneyland logo on their shirt are probably going to just turn around and leave after finding out the stark reality.......

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