Darn it! Bought Snow White Blu-Ray by mistake!!!

[MrSunnyBlack]

Yet again, I find nothing you say worth commenting on. Everything you have brought to the table is speculation and YOUR personal opinion. I am talking from research and numbers that AREN'T only from the Blu Ray Association. Do a little research and no research isn't reading the opinions of other anti-Blu Ray commentators and forums.

Oh and YES PCs have Blu Rays INSTALLED for purchase at Best Buy and other computer retailers (even ACER computers, the cheapest brand of them all, have Blu Ray laptops!). They aren't upgrades, they are defaults. Mac is soon to follow suit. Not only that but iTunes is soon to add Blu Ray media support. Once again, your speculation.

The fact of the matter is people are buying Blu Rays and their players, a lot of people. If they weren't there wouldn't have so much shelf space and support from retailers. Lets leave Wal Mart for a bit shall we? Go to a Best Buy, go to a Target etc. DVD isn't going to cut it in the future. Not just with HD video, content like video games are becoming to large for the DVD format. Xbox 360 games are already having to use multiple discs for some games to fit. How do you think new advances like home 3D are going to fit on a DVD? Or any other advance for that matter.

I am done now, you guys can speculate until your face turns blue.

[BC_DisneyGeek]

Originally Posted by sir clinksalot

Back to the original topic at hand ... We got our Snow White Blu Ray yesterday (looks AMAZING BTW) and there is NO WAY you can confuse this for a DVD.

Not only does it say BLU-RAY right on top ... Not only is the casing BLUE ... The size of the casing is about 1/4 SMALLER than a standard DVD. If you put the case of the Blue Ray side-by-side with the case of a normal DVD, you can EASILY tell.

Yes, but, it is also being sold in a DVD sized case which refers to it as "Includes DVD + Blu-ray". The packaging and wording of that set imply a DVD set with a bonus Blu-ray, but it is in fact the same set you bought.

It looks like a DVD set, but anyone buying it for use on their DVD player will find they have the movie, but pretty much all of the extras are inaccessible to them.

[flynnibus]

Originally Posted by sir clinksalot

Back to the original topic at hand ... We got our Snow White Blu Ray yesterday (looks AMAZING BTW) and there is NO WAY you can confuse this for a DVD.

Not only does it say BLU-RAY right on top ... Not only is the casing BLUE ... The size of the casing is about 1/4 SMALLER than a standard DVD. If you put the case of the Blue Ray side-by-side with the case of a normal DVD, you can EASILY tell.

Gregg, please look back at the earlier posts showing how the EXACT SAME DISCS are being advertised NOT in a BluRay case as you describe, but in DVD packaging as well.

That's the nasty part about the confusion.

You are right, the BluRay packaging looks like BluRay. The DVD packaging looks like DVD, but the DVD packaging has the exact same discs as the BluRay packaging. They did it BOTH ways to make it appeal to both DVD and BluRay audiences.


Edit:


Lets say you picked up the first one, saw it was bluray and then picked up the second one. It would make no difference, both are actually the same inside!

[flynnibus]

Originally Posted by MrSunnyBlack

I am talking from research and numbers that AREN'T only from the Blu Ray Association.

I welcome your citation that does not reference the BRA conference.

Originally Posted by MrSunnyBlack

Oh and YES PCs have Blu Rays INSTALLED for purchase at Best Buy and other computer retailers (even ACER computers, the cheapest brand of them all, have Blu Ray laptops!). They aren't upgrades, they are defaults.

You are still paying a premium for them. They are 'upgrades' because it's not the L.C.D. yet, not because you are adding it in yourself, etc.

Originally Posted by MrSunnyBlack

Mac is soon to follow suit. Not only that but iTunes is soon to add Blu Ray media support. Once again, your speculation.

Our speculation.. you keep bringing that up. Yet it's right after you speculate yourself on Apple and iTunes (neither of which have publically announced their Blu Ray plans).

In fact even as recently as last Oct, Jobs said

"Blu-ray is just a bag of hurt. It's great to watch the movies, but the licensing of the tech is so complex, we're waiting till things settle down and Blu-ray takes off in the marketplace." Phil chimed in with "We have the best HD movie and TV options in iTunes."

Apple's Steve Jobs calls Blu-ray "a bag of hurt"

His comment hits on some of the inherient flaws with Blu Ray as it was setup. Even with licensing being wholesaled to a single entity, it's costly as a heck.

Originally Posted by MrSunnyBlack

Not just with HD video, content like video games are becoming to large for the DVD format. Xbox 360 games are already having to use multiple discs for some games to fit. How do you think new advances like home 3D are going to fit on a DVD? Or any other advance for that matter.

Wow.. we wouldn't want anyone to SPECULATE on anything here now would we??

Ever try comparing the capacity of an SSD or Hard Disk to your massive BluRay Disc? Ever heard of Steam? Or other Content Delivery Networks? On Demand and convenience kill 'quality' arguements in the long run. It's why MP3s killed CDs. it's why SACD failed. It's why interoperability wins over closed systems. It's why people bought 720p TVs instead of demanding 1080p. The list goes on.

Originally Posted by MrSunnyBlack

I am done now, you guys can speculate until your face turns blue.

Come back with your citations - your not speculating speculations are pretty much dried up.

[sir clinksalot]

Originally Posted by flynnibus

Lets say you picked up the first one, saw it was bluray and then picked up the second one. It would make no difference, both are actually the same inside!

Ooooh, your right ... that WOULD be confusing. But I still say $34 for a DVD should have tipped you off right there.

[MrSunnyBlack]

NPD: Blu-ray will penetrate mainstream by next year - 9/24/2009 - Video Business

Wolverine shows off Q4 DVD, Blu-ray potential - 9/24/2009 - Video Business

Mobile segment to recover from recession next year - 10/12/2009 - Video Business

"U.S. Blu-ray Disc player sales leap in Q1"
The Hollywood Reporter

Entertainment software set to grow 17% by 2010 - 6/18/2008 - Video Business

Blu-ray Growth Bolsters Dipping DVD Sales :: HDTV.BIZ-NEWS.COM

If you would like me to dig up more signs of growth let me know, it isn't too hard.

Your really bringing up a conference from last October?

I was speaking of DVD vs Blu Ray as a video game format, it isn't speculation that DVDs need more discs to hold a current generation game than a BLu Ray does so I don't know how that is me speculating....it is kind of obvious. In regards to games, NO, convenience and On Demand DOES NOT kill quality arguments. Video games do not sell because of convenience, they sell because of quality. In regards to your comparison to flash drives, once again, digital isn't going to replace tangible media anytime soon.

[MrSunnyBlack]

Though all aside, I do think Disney was being pretty sneaky here. I mean, what would be the point of having "DVD" packaging if you weren't trying to trick consumers. Bad move.

[Retrocool]

Eventually, visual entertainment will be beamed right into your head. Then nobody will buy any movies on disc.

[goofystitch]

Well, last weeks sales figures are in. Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs was not only the highest selling Blu-Ray of the week, but was the highest selling packaged media of the week, beating out any DVD sales. This is the first time a Blu-Ray release has been at the top of the home entertainment sales for any week since the format launched.

And in my opinion, it is all because of Disney's horribly deceptive DVD packaging of the film. I hope they are happy about how many people they angered with this. The numbers are phenomenal, but they did it at the cost of consumer trust. The Blu-Ray is amazing, possibly the best they've done in terms of buns features and the restoration is spectacular, but I think what they did was dirty.

[flynnibus]

Originally Posted by MrSunnyBlack

If you would like me to dig up more signs of growth let me know, it isn't too hard.

No one is denying growth. We were talking about your reference to BluRay's adoption vs. DVD and the pentration of BluRay and it's dominating place.

Even your own quoted references illustrate the immaturity of it.
The NPD article still calls it niche, and PREDICTS mainstream adoption.

The Wolverine Article shows that only 20% of all Disc sales for the title were BluRay. 20%!! And they're stoked about it.

The Gartner article doesn't speak to anything except growth.

The Hollywood reporter article only speaks towards growth.

Your last article highlights exactly what we are saying... even with the growth of Blu Ray, it is not enough to stem the decline in Disc Sales. This illustrates that DVD and BluRay are not the only players in the game and what you write off as speculation is eating away at the traditional market.

The entire market (DVD and BluRay) fell over 5% in 2008.

DVD Sales dropped by over 1.6 Billion, yet BluRay which costs nearly 2x as much per Disc, could not make up the gap selling only 750million. That's less then half the gap with a product that costs nearly 2x more.

That means those dollars didn't go from DVD to BluRay, they went somewhere else entirely.

Originally Posted by MrSunnyBlack

Your really bringing up a conference from last October?

I didn't - you did with your quote on the adoption rate of BluRay which came direction from that conference.

Originally Posted by MrSunnyBlack

I was speaking of DVD vs Blu Ray as a video game format, it isn't speculation that DVDs need more discs to hold a current generation game than a BLu Ray does so I don't know how that is me speculating....it is kind of obvious

Really? Well most of us find it pretty obvious that the 'No one will give up their CD' or that 'MP3 quality isn't good enough' argument has pretty much been decimated by reality. Why do you feel Movies are any different? There will always be the high quality niche, as there has been forever, but mainstream has proven they don't care about having the best quality available, and they don't care about not having a disc for their music.

Originally Posted by MrSunnyBlack

In regards to games, NO convenience and On Demand DOES NOT kill quality arguments. Video games do not sell because of convenience, they sell because of quality

Hrmm... maybe you missed that whole iPhone thing? People weren't buying those games because they were better then their Xbox games. Or the entire online marketplace for games that exists today, in XBL Arcade, or Games on Demand (Including titles like GTA:IV). Or if you've ever played with Steam, you know the real power of content on demand, including cutting out retail, ability to adjust pricing as desired, electronic gifting, online licensing, etc.

Originally Posted by MrSunnyBlack

In regards to your comparison to flash drives, once again, digital isn't going to replace tangible media anytime soon.

The flashdrive illustrates it does not have to be an 'all or nothing' thing.

Products like Steam illustrate the 'my digital copy is frail' arguement holds no weight what so ever. The choice to make people re-buy stuff is purely a vendor choice (lame Apple) and not inherent to the technology at all.

I can log into Steam and download any game I've ever bought from them and install it on demand. Forget digging through my closet for my old Half life CD, etc.

The future is coming...and BluRay is only a static road sign on the way. It's not the future.

[SnorkletsMom]

DVD sales are dwindling, BluRay sales are growing. BluRay will eventually give way to something else. But for now, yes, many people DO want a larger screen and they DO want a high definition picture. BluRay wins. Portability is great, and I have some movies on my iPod. But if I want to sit down and really watch a film, I want to sit in front of my big screen with the very best picture and sound quality I can get. Streaming is fine, except you are victim to whatever copyright protection is included, and to stream huge files like HD films would take a huge amount of time, even on a very fast connection and with a very fast computer.

As for the Snow White packaging, as I said earlier...READ the box. On the back of both boxes, it clearly states : "2 BluRay discs, 1 DVD disc". It states the contents of each disc. If you picked up the box and purchased it without even bothering to read what was inside, well, then, your mistake.

[sailerm]

Though all aside, I do think Disney was being pretty sneaky here. I mean, what would be the point of having "DVD" packaging if you weren't trying to trick consumers. Bad move.

It was a very calculated move to shore up blue ray numbers, and it seems to have worked.

iTunes is soon to add Blu Ray media support.

Apple releases no info on what it will or will not due until day of release, only Mircosoft likes to spin pie int he sky stories off all the things they will do in the future

This is the first time a Blu-Ray release has been at the top of the home entertainment sales for any week since the format launched.

I'd like to see the break out as too which cover art sold more (I'm guessing DVD)

Anyone else find it funny that the 'blu ray version' features a deceptive two faced hag trying to poison you with the lure of something good?

[MrSunnyBlack]

Good grief, growth is growth, a sell is a sell and market penetration is market penetration. The more sales the more growth the more growth the more penetration which means there is no turning back. If a percentage of households adopt Blu Ray technology and are actively purchasing them the format isn't just going to disappear. You keep implying that whether or not people buy it, OnDemand is going to force them to throw away what they have already purchased. There is room for On Demand services and tangible media just as there has been room for renting and buying and illegally downloading.

How are you comparing a $4.99 - $14.99 dollar iPhone game to a $59.99 Xbox or PS3 game...? I cannot believe the iPhone is being sold as a game device to rival the PSP and DS much less a Xbox or PS3.

[sailerm]

Originally Posted by MrSunnyBlack

If a percentage of households adopt Blu Ray technology and are actively purchasing them the format isn't just going to disappear.

CED Disc
LASER DISC
BETA
DAT
MINI-DISC
VHS
KODACHOME
POLAROID
SEGA
EV-1
ATARI 2400
SACD
ZIP DRIVE
Edsel
LP
8mm FILM
TOWER RECORDS
CIRCUIT CITY
ZUNE

Some of these where huge, but now gone, others never stood a chance no matter what the marketing said at the time. Here's another hint, SONY has had far more product failures than success'. They keep missing the point. Convenience over technology

[Mr Wiggins]

Just my sense of how people are, from having kicked around in the audiophile & videophile worlds for more years than I care to remember:

Blu-Ray's potential customer base, from high-end aficionados to the general public, is a lot more hip than the corporations that fought the HD/BR format battles give them credit for.

And they're seen all this before.

Blu-Ray's reputation precedes it -- those format wars are still fresh in everyone's collective memory. Corporate giants spend years publicly pissing on each other's formats and they think people weren't watching? Yes, the video image is totally sweet and the players are cheap, but the whole routine reeks of corporate games. Even my 82 year old mom asked if this is just another deal to make all her DVDs obsolete, like DVD did to her VHS tapes. "Damn companies! Why can't they just make up their minds? Am I supposed to buy everything all over again?"

Yeah, Mom, that's the idea -- you get to be a Cash Source for the multinationals.

Yes, people will buy the latest, greatest format -- but this time around, I suspect, not in humongous numbers. Maybe even not in healthy numbers.

Blu-Ray will achieve some market penetration, no doubt. But I don't think it will make Mr. & Mrs. Public even remotely as excited as home video tape, or even DVD. For the simple reason that people remember.

People are smart enough to know the feeling of "been there, upgraded that."