Darn it! Bought Snow White Blu-Ray by mistake!!!

[sailerm]

"been there, upgraded that."

This wouldn't be such a sore point, but studios have been double and triple dipping titles on DVD for 10 years. Standard, Deluxe, Masterpiece, Platinum, Diamond editions of the same films. I don't need an ninth copy of Pinocchio.. I still have the orginal VHS tape.. and my grandkids don't care about how many lines of resolution it has (heck they spend more time watching high art on Youtube)

[EpTxGuy]

Originally Posted by sailerm

CED Disc
LASER DISC
BETA
DAT
MINI-DISC
VHS
KODACHOME
POLAROID
SEGA
EV-1
ATARI 2400
SACD
ZIP DRIVE
Edsel
LP
8mm FILM
TOWER RECORDS
CIRCUIT CITY
ZUNE

Some of these where huge, but now gone, others never stood a chance no matter what the marketing said at the time. Here's another hint, SONY has had far more product failures than success'. They keep missing the point. Convenience over technology

Don't forget the 8-Track Tape. I have the upgraded AM/FM stereo radio with Quadra sonic 8-track tape player (Originally offered for $382!) in my '76 Thunderbird. I'm having a real hard time finding my tunes on 8-Track!

[MrSunnyBlack]

Betamax = HDDVD
Mini Disc was not huge....not even slightly
VHS = DVD
Polaroids are still around....
Sega is still around, they aren't a specific technology, they are a company...
Atari 2400 = DVD
8MM Film = DVD
Circuit City = Poor management and economy and competition
Zune isn't dead....they just released a new player.

Everything else you listed kind of proves my point that formats move on and eventually it will be time for DVD to be added to your list. This list totally destroyed any argument you made.

Is it just me or do some people just want some sort of monopoly where Apple controls the world? Just a thought.

[Mr Wiggins]

Originally Posted by sailerm

This wouldn't be such a sore point, but studios have been double and triple dipping titles on DVD for 10 years. Standard, Deluxe, Masterpiece, Platinum, Diamond editions of the same films. I don't need an ninth copy of Pinocchio.

Bingo. Instead of rolling up their sleeves and turning out better quality films to feed the home viewing market, the industry has been squeezing more gold out of an increasingly thin goose.

They should talk to my mom -- she's pissed at the mere suggestion that her Gone with the Wind VHS box set, LaserDisc box set, DVD and DVD Special Edition are now obsolete... and frustrated that every time she browses new DVD titles, "there's nothing to buy but crap!"

And that, dear kiddies, is why the bottom is falling out of the DVD market.

[flynnibus]

Originally Posted by MrSunnyBlack

Good grief, growth is growth, a sell is a sell and market penetration is market penetration. The more sales the more growth the more growth the more penetration which means there is no turning back.

Unless you are the growing party in an overall declining market. Which is exactly what BluRay is. That's why people look not just at your sales, but that of your industry as well. Are you cannibalizing a competitor? growing the market? Or simply gaining in a declining market? Right now BluRay is only doing the latter. It's growth is not outpacing the decline of DVD in revenue OR units and is not growing the market at all.

Originally Posted by MrSunnyBlack

If a percentage of households adopt Blu Ray technology and are actively purchasing them the format isn't just going to disappear. You keep implying that whether or not people buy it, OnDemand is going to force them to throw away what they have already purchased.

We haven't said either of those things. We didn't say it was going to just disappear nor did we say alternatives would force you to throw something away. You're making up your own arguements to defeat now.

Originally Posted by MrSunnyBlack

How are you comparing a $4.99 - $14.99 dollar iPhone game to a $59.99 Xbox or PS3 game...? I cannot believe the iPhone is being sold as a game device to rival the PSP and DS much less a Xbox or PS3.

Well obviously you don't understand the consumers while those people do. You don't need GTA:IV quality or scope to sell a game - nor is that the type of game everyone wants. People learned to GROW THE MARKET, not just FARM the same market over and over.

[flynnibus]

Originally Posted by SnorkletsMom

DVD sales are dwindling, BluRay sales are growing. BluRay will eventually give way to something else. But for now, yes, many people DO want a larger screen and they DO want a high definition picture. BluRay wins. Portability is great, and I have some movies on my iPod. But if I want to sit down and really watch a film, I want to sit in front of my big screen with the very best picture and sound quality I can get. Streaming is fine, except you are victim to whatever copyright protection is included, and to stream huge files like HD films would take a huge amount of time, even on a very fast connection and with a very fast computer.

What you are saying is hard is already done today.

I sit on my couch with my xbox and watch streaming HD shows from both my PC, and on-demand from Netflix. In both cases the show starts within seconds of my request.. and I can even do things like fast forward, reverse, etc. I control the whole thing through my harmony remote. It's no different then watching a DVD. In fact I find it more enjoyable then watching a BluRay because I find the menuing and speed of bluray discs to be reason alone to throw out my player. I find it ridiculous that we went BACKWARDS in usability compared to DVD.

Originally Posted by SnorkletsMom

As for the Snow White packaging, as I said earlier...READ the box. On the back of both boxes, it clearly states : "2 BluRay discs, 1 DVD disc". It states the contents of each disc. If you picked up the box and purchased it without even bothering to read what was inside, well, then, your mistake.

Or you could just ask for more reasonable packaging to start with. I mean, it's not like you need to interrogate most other packages on the shelf - why should this be different?

Also if you look at it on online, on Amazon you can't tell at all the difference.

[flynnibus]

Originally Posted by MrSunnyBlack

Is it just me or do some people just want some sort of monopoly where Apple controls the world? Just a thought.

If you think the digital only arguement is one that is lobbying for Apple - you are quite naive about the market. Apple's biggest play in the game was finally cutting a deal with the major studios to open up the flood gates. Once they got over their major fears, others were able to follow and offer much more.

Most people in this space dispise Apple because they put themselves above all - even at the expense of the customer and experience.

[goofystitch]

But Mr. Wiggins, Blu-Ray players also play DVDs. Nobody has to rebuy anything that they own on DVD with Blu-Ray. So I don't think any of the points you brought up are valid. Studios like Disney might give you a reason to want to buy a film on Blu-Ray that you already own on DVD, such as a better restoration or new bonus features, but they aren't making you do it. It's not the same thing as "My DVD player won't play my VHS." Your Blu-Ray player WILL play your DVDs.

[Mr Wiggins]

^ The player's not the point. Players don't drive the business, perception of value does.

Explain and argue all you want, at the end of the day BRA has sold my mom on the perception that her DVDs are obsolete, that she'll have to repurchase her entire collection. To her, the dual BR/DVD packaging is confusing, contradictory and a turnoff.

Do you think hundreds of millions of consumers sit down with spec sheets and make rational decisions on their AV needs? If so, you're in good company: the corporations involved in the HD/BR wars are right with you!

[Mr Wiggins]

Originally Posted by goofystitch

Studios like Disney might give you a reason to want to buy a film on Blu-Ray that you already own on DVD, such as a better restoration or new bonus features, but they aren't making you do it. It's not the same thing as "My DVD player won't play my VHS."Your Blu-Ray player WILL play your DVDs.

Out of curiosity, I read that post to my mom. Her response was, "Hah! You better believe they're making us do it!" In her view, Blu-Ray wants to force her into not only buying a Blu-Ray player, but also buying an unwanted Blu-Ray disc in the same package as the DVD she wants, at an inflated price. Disney's Snow White is a perfect example: in her view, to get the DVD she wants, she has to buy BR discs she doesn't want.

When I said that the solution is to just buy a BR player, she went ballistic -- using words like "con job," "coercion," and several others unfit for a family forum.

Memo to BRA: do not screw with my mom.

[sailerm]

Is it just me or do some people just want some sort of monopoly where Apple controls the world? Just a thought.

Apple does not control the world, that distinction goes to Microsoft, but Apple has figured out what entertainment products people want and has such usurped control from the Record labels an Movie studios

Blu-Ray players also play DVDs.

My DVD players (multiple) play DVDs'

Mini Disc was not huge....not even slightly
Polaroids are still around....
Sega is still around, they aren't a specific technology, they are a company...
Circuit City = Poor management and economy and competition
Zune isn't dead....they just released a new player.

Mini Disc never took off, but Sony heralded it as the next big thing. It wasn't.

Polaroid no longer makes it's instant cameras or film that defined the company for 30 years.

Sega as a company may still be around (though I don't recall anything they have done lately) but they dumped their gaming system in favor of making titles for other platforms

Circut City= Poor management, perhaps, but they were also the one's that backed the original DIVX movie format, they also instisted on selling everything at list prices, even when WAL MART and Best Buy were undercutting them in PRICE (price, price,price)

And poor ZUNE, yet another misguided effort by Microsoft, too little too late into the music player market (just like SONY). All ZUNE's have been mercifully killed off (save for the new ZUNE HD) and the design team absorbed into the XBox dept.

Instead of rolling up their sleeves and turning out better quality films to feed the home viewing market, the industry has been squeezing more gold out of an increasingly thin goose.

BINGO!! The market is already saturated with millions of copies of The Wizard of OZ, Snow White, Gone With the Wind, & Pinocchio.... titles that still well even at 70 years old. No small wonder the return on investment even on these titles is shrinking. How many release cycles do you think Cinderella 2 or 3 will have on blue ray?

[goofystitch]

Originally Posted by Mr Wiggins

Out of curiosity, I read that post to my mom. Her response was, "Hah! You better believe they're making us do it!" In her view, Blu-Ray wants to force her into not only buying a Blu-Ray player, but also buying an unwanted Blu-Ray disc in the same package as the DVD she wants, at an inflated price. Disney's Snow White is a perfect example: in her view, to get the DVD she wants, she has to buy BR discs she doesn't want.

The solution for her should actually be to wait until next month and get the 2-disc DVD set without any Blu-Ray discs.

Also, you could educate her on the fact that owning a Blu-Ray player doesn't mean she has to rebuy everything on Blu-Ray. I still don't get your point. Blu-Ray players play all of her DVDs, so the only Blu-Rays she will ever need to buy are movies that are only available on Blu-Ray. And she doesn't even NEED to buy a Blu-Ray player.

[sailerm]

Nobody, needs to buy a blue ray player.

[Retrocool]

Originally Posted by sailerm

LASER DISC

Popular collector's items, though.

Originally Posted by sailerm

BETA

Still being made. Still being sold.

FRYS.com*|*Sony

Originally Posted by sailerm

DAT

Still being used by professionals.

Originally Posted by sailerm

MINI-DISC

Waning in popularity, but still being supported by Sony.

Originally Posted by sailerm

POLAROID

Coming back, actually.

Polaroid instant film to make comeback - BostonHerald.com

Originally Posted by sailerm

SEGA

Still in business. Sega - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Originally Posted by sailerm

SACD

Still hangin' in there. Both discs and players are still being manufactured. Super Audio CD - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Originally Posted by sailerm

LP

Has seriously made a big comeback, albeit as a niche market.

Wax Poetics

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Import and Domestic Vinyl, SACD, DVD Audio, Audiophile Hardware - musicdirect - (800) 449-8333

Amazon.com Vinyl Records: New and Used LPs, 180...

Originally Posted by sailerm

TOWER RECORDS

Brick and mortar retail stores, yes. The company, no. Tower.com: Buy Music CDs, DVDs, Blu-ray, Books, New Releases

Originally Posted by sailerm

CIRCUIT CITY

Same thing. TVs, Computers, Cameras, Desktops, Laptops, Consumer Electronics, and More at CircuitCity.com

Originally Posted by sailerm

ZUNE

Huh? Still doing well. Homepage | Zune.net

[MrSunnyBlack]

Okay, I am really over this. Yet again nothing you have said means anything to me, just your opinion. In all actuality none of us know where any of this ends up unless we have spoken to every consumer on Earth or a marketing analyst who could also see the future. My original argument was DVD is going to one day be obsolete with only Blu Ray to remain as the tangible media market and I stand by that. There is always going to be tangible media but it has never been the only way of getting entertainment. There is room for both digital and tangible media in the market, I never said there wasn't so continuously bringing that up means nothing. In my opinion the two formats will be Blu Ray and Digital in the end with DVDs to take the throne as the new VHS.