Darn it! Bought Snow White Blu-Ray by mistake!!!

[MrSunnyBlack]

Originally Posted by flynnibus

And how many of those people have ipods? It's not much further then that. Your 'distant future' is way closer then you think. That's the adoption curve ramping up as each new generation is significantly more immersed.

iPod didn't happen over night, it took 7 years to get where it is and the people who have iPods and use them for more then music are still those generally tech savvy individuals (70% being under 25 years old). So once again, I am sure it would be news to many people (outside of that niche) full movies can be purchased via a program on their computer and watched on a TV. So once again I will repeat:

If I was to explain that to my mother, father, aunts, uncles, their friends, (over 35) hell even some of my friends the reaction would be, "What?", as well as the general consensus of the average consumer.

[sir clinksalot]

Honestly, as far as movies are concerned, IMO I don't think it's going to be as digital as music is (as far as downloading, etc, etc, etc). At least not for me for the sheer fact of the size.

I mean, I have 6 movies that are 7.67GB on my computer.

From an Audio standpoint, that 7.67GB equals the full catalogs for The Beatles, The Cure, Dave Matthews Band, Rush, Porcupine Tree, Radiohead and Genesis. Approximately 1500 songs.

[flynnibus]

Originally Posted by MrSunnyBlack

iPod didn't happen over night, it took 7 years to get where it is and the people who have iPods and use them for more then music are still those generally tech savvy individuals (70% being under 25 years old).

Cites? I didn't think so.

The point wasn't about them doing more on the ipod... the point was they have transitioned from their old media to new media. And it's not just tech people... everyone from house wives to tree huggers have iPods and iPhones. I'm sure even a few in your family references have them, and I bet at least half of them have bought someone online to load on to it.

What Apple brought to the game was making it 'hip' and cool, and combining it with a strict ecosystem that made it idiot proof to obtain and transfer media. Result? Mass Market adoption.

Originally Posted by MrSunnyBlack

So once again, I am sure it would be news to many people (outside of that niche) full movies can be purchased via a program on their computer and watched on a TV. So once again I will repeat:

If I was to explain that to my mother, father, aunts, uncles, their friends, (over 35) hell even some of my friends the reaction would be, "What?", as well as the general consensus of the average consumer.

You obviously haven't seen any of the models out there today. Buying movies to download and save is for chumps. The PC isn't necessary at all even in many scenarios. The market is settop boxes or integrated functionality to tap into on-demand services. If you can operate a DVD player, you can operate these systems - they actually are more intuitive. Go look at things like the Roku Player, or the Netflix support built into Samsung BluRay players, or Apple TV, etc.

The key is locating content and aggregating it into a useful interface. There is lots of activity and evolution in this happening right now (Boxee, etc) that help break this from single vendor solutions to similar to what you have with Cable today.

Originally Posted by sir clinksalot

From an Audio standpoint, that 7.67GB equals the full catalogs for The Beatles, The Cure, Dave Matthews Band, Rush, Porcupine Tree, Radiohead and Genesis. Approximately 1500 songs.

But why on earth do you need to save the movie to your computer? Are you going to need it when you aren't watching it? Why bother buying movies if you can move to a model where you just get any movie you want without buying it?

The success of products like RedBox should show you that most people aren't really interested in owning big movie collections. They just want to enjoy the movies in a convenient, cost effective way.

Owning the media is not the end goal - that was a way to get what we wanted.. the ability to watch the movie anytime we wanted. Focus on the goal, not the means. Owning a disc will become an unnecessary model.

[MrSunnyBlack]

The Life and Times of AdMob Blog Archive New research on the demographics and behavioral characteristics of iPhone And iPod touch users from AdMob and comScore

Here you go smart ***.

And you obviously don't get just because YOU think is it easy doesn't mean everyone else does. Why don't you leave the bubble of your opinion and actually look around you.

Owning something will never be an unnecessary model.

[flynnibus]

Originally Posted by MrSunnyBlack

The Life and Times of AdMob Blog Archive New research on the demographics and behavioral characteristics of iPhone And iPod touch users from AdMob and comScore

Here you go smart ***.

The article doesn't substantiate your claims at all.

You stated

"the people who have iPods and use them for more then music are still those generally tech savvy individuals (70% being under 25 years old)"

By adding 'and use them for more then music' you change the claim - that is not supported at all by your quoted article.

This report only talks about the iPod Touch, which is only one model. (the article is really about Touch vs iPhone, not iPod usage). Second, the very same conclusion includes the part that speaks directly to the OPPOSITE of what you say. The article says

"69% of iPod touch users are between 13-24 years of age, while this same segment represents just 26% of iPhone users"

The iPhone market is a much older audience - and the iPhone is the one leading the market in adoption of mobile web and applications (not just music). You worry about complexity and adoption, and this statement alone shows that people are paying for a phone who's sole market advantage is that enables these technologies. Obviously they aren't scared of it - else they wouldn't be buying these devices which have crappy battery life, locked to a single network, and has vendor lock. You say older people don't get this stuff... hello your just provided the article that proved just the opposite!

Originally Posted by MrSunnyBlack

And you obviously don't get just because YOU think is it easy doesn't mean everyone else does. Why don't you leave the bubble of your opinion and actually look around you.

I think the problem is just the opposite. I am the one watching the industry and what is happening in the market. You're the one holding onto your old concepts of what people want and are willing to pay for.

Originally Posted by MrSunnyBlack

Owning something will never be an unnecessary model.

It already is today. Netflix anyone??? RedBox?? Pandora?? Hulu?? Napster??

How many of your family read the newspaper stories online vs. buying the newspaper? They don't need to own the paper to get what they need. The same is happening to entertainment.

The mass market doesn't get a hard-on over having 400 DVDs on the wall. Most people I know hide the darn things away in a cabinet or drawer. Owning is a necessity of the old market and technology - Not a consumer desire.

[MrSunnyBlack]

I didn't mean the 70% towards people who use it more than music, I meant the people that own them.

I didn't say people were scared of 4 dollar applications. I am saying the general public isn't going to grasp the concept of downloading a film via iTunes and be able to transfer it to multiple outlets. I don't understand why you have the need to put words in my mouth.

Netflix, RedBox etc are just a new model of renting. When Blockbuster came around did people stop buying VHS and DVD? Nope.

And no, the most of my family don't use the internet to replace the newspaper nor do I see many people with laptops in the morning eating breakfast, they have a newspaper. I totally think magazines and newspapers are out dated but once again, there are still a large group of people who don't depend on computers.

The market you are "watching" is within the bubble you live in. Get away from your computer and walk outside. You are still covering a small niche of individuals. I am speaking for people outside that niche.

Digital distribution is coming but not for LONG time which you agreed with me awhile back so now you are just being a hypocrite so you can continue a futile argument.

[flynnibus]

Originally Posted by MrSunnyBlack

I didn't mean the 70% towards people who use it more than music, I meant the people that own them.

So your going to define an entire industry by who owns one model of a product, and ignore the very same stats that show the MORE advanced product, has just the OPPOSITE core audience. You're seeing what you want to see and ignoring the rest.

Originally Posted by MrSunnyBlack

I didn't say people were scared of 4 dollar applications

No, you've repeatedly said people will not grasp this technology, they can't use it, they don't want to it. Yet, your very own article showed just the opposite with the iPhone. A device who's sole purpose is to add these new types of technologies onto a carrier device which everyone already knows and accepts. It's new ways of doing things, and people are eating it up like crazy... selling in the 10s of millions. A methodology that single handledly within a year, even despite a huge price disadvantage redefined the market and expanded smart phones beyond the enterprise and nerds. You should learn from this... it doesn't take a decade anymore to move the market. That's why the BRA's stats are self-serving, and people who think it will be ages before we see the next big thing are short-sighted.

Originally Posted by MrSunnyBlack

I am saying the general public isn't going to grasp the concept of downloading a film via iTunes and be able to transfer it to multiple outlets. I don't understand why you have the need to put words in my mouth.

On that point.. you should stop trying to put them in mine. I've never once said downloading movies and transfering them is the way forward. In fact, several times I've said 'dont do that' 'its for chumps'. This is YOUR perception of the methods available. You've yet to once address any of the technologies I've listed out. Go study them. Heck, go try them.

Originally Posted by MrSunnyBlack

Netflix, RedBox etc are just a new model of renting. When Blockbuster came around did people stop buying VHS and DVD? Nope.

You're looking at a tree and missing the forest. The point is not their revenue model - the point is the shift from the notion that I must own it, or that I need a physical copy to enjoy the entertainment. Netflix in this example is not just about renting - its a subscription on-demand service in case you didn't realize. Notice you skipped over things like Hulu and others.

And as for stopping buying VHS and DVDs? It crushed their market and forced them to drop prices (VHS used to be $80 for a movie) and forced them to focus on 'value adds' and not just the movie itself. Things like extras, collectors editions, etc. They had to dream up new ways of trying to get you to once again think you needed to own the disc. Do you honestly think retail DVDs would be $5-$15 each if there wasn't market pressure of different distribution models and formats?

The retail disc market is SHRINKING and has been for years. If it's this end all model you think everyone wants - why is that? You're arguing that a sinking ship is the best model out there. Well then explain the facts about retail DVD sales.

What you are missing is you're focusing on the past and trying to say the future will be exactly like what the past has been.

Originally Posted by MrSunnyBlack

And no, the most of my family don't use the internet to replace the newspaper nor do I see many people with laptops in the morning eating breakfast, they have a newspaper. I totally think magazines and newspapers are out dated but once again, there are still a large group of people who don't depend on computers.

Sure - but when you look at the trend... you see what is happening. Stop focusing on the next 30 seconds and look at what is happening to the media industry. Print Media is falling apart. It's dropping products like house flies. To say the Print Media today is the future is just blind.

Originally Posted by MrSunnyBlack

The market you are "watching" is within the bubble you live in. Get away from your computer and walk outside. You are still covering a small niche of individuals. I am speaking for people outside that niche.

It's not a niche, it's the emmerging trend. I've given you countless examples. If you want to hold onto the past because that's how you've always done it. Go for it.

Originally Posted by MrSunnyBlack

Digital distribution is coming but not for LONG time which you agreed with me awhile back so now you are just being a hypocrite so you can continue a futile argument.

Digital subscription is already here - try it. What is coming is the transition and future models to make it more seemless, less single vendor, and even newer business models.

I'm not being a hypocrite, you're being stubborn and refusing to look at any of the examples and parallels drawn. You've yet to look at any except beat the same horse of 'people can't/won't do it' and yet when shown how they do evolve you ignore it. Heck, I don't even know how you got to this forum, you should probably be sending me a letter right now... I mean 'what is a discussion board?' is what everyone around me said 10 years years ago. Digital correspondences will never replace mail...

[MrSunnyBlack]

You can be condescending and immature all you want but you haven't shown me facts of anything, once again just your speculation and "watch" of a tech savvy market.

And in your last statement you mention 10 years....which is exactly what I am saying about digital distribution. You act like it is going to happen tomorrow. YOU are being stubborn because you are putting words in my mouth and twisting what I say. When did I say I didn't understand the concept, you seem to think I did with your tacky last paragraph (I actually work as a graphic designer within the entertainment industry and teach people how to use computer programs). I never said it wasn't going to happen but I don't believe it isn't going to happen soon which gives Blu Ray enough time to get into the market and possibly educate people about digital distribution and HD content.

You don't need to speak to me, you need to go speak to a group of lower income brackets with limited education and you can "educate" them all you want and throw in some little snarky condescending comments to make yourself feel smarter and make them feel stupid because they don't understand.

[Mr Wiggins]

MrSunnyBlack's descent into namecalling is unfortunate, and a poor substitute for a valid argument technique.

Again, the chronic flaws in his arguments are chronocentricity (temporal chauvinism) and the fallacy of composition (arguing from the specific to the general). I suggested earlier that he look them up, instead he continues to apply them even more vigorously.

[MrSunnyBlack]

Yay! More condescending, pretentious comments!

[Dustysage]

Originally Posted by Mr Wiggins

MrSunnyBlack's descent into namecalling is unfortunate, and a poor substitute for a valid argument technique.

I would remind EVERYONE to please review our FAQ for acceptable posting behavior: MiceChat - FAQ

It is not acceptable to make insults directed at others or at the community in general nor is it acceptable to call someone out on the boards for violating our rules. If you see trollish behavior or a violation of our rules, you have two options - Report the post and/or use your negative voting buttons.

We will NOT tolerate hostility on the boards. Those who continue to post in such a manner will be removed from the discussion and/or the boards entirely.

We thank ALL of you for helping keep MiceChat a safe fun place for everyone to post.

[flynnibus]

Originally Posted by MrSunnyBlack

You can be condescending and immature all you want but you haven't shown me facts of anything, once again just your speculation and "watch" of a tech savvy market.

That's right.. we don't have your own iPhone age bracket.
We don't know anything about DVD sales numbers shrinking (even including BluRay)
We don't know anything about iPhone Sales and Adoption Rates or Market Penetration
We don't know anything about Blu Ray's Sales totals
We don't know anything about the change of adoption rates of technologies now vs the launch of DVD
We don't know anything about these new competeing technologies and what they may be
We don't know anything about the closure of dozens of print newspapers or the collapse of their revenue models
We don't know anything about the adoption rates of 'inferior' quality products in the face of more high quality alternatives available
We don't know anything about the mass market 'good enough' approach to buy lower technology based on price vs quality

Where have you been? I shouldn't have to print citations for what is widely known as common knowledge. If you doubt any of the above, please let me know.

Originally Posted by MrSunnyBlack

And in your last statement you mention 10 years....which is exactly what I am saying about digital distribution

And if you go back to the very begining the point was adoption rates of the past mean LITTLE to adoption rates to today. Technology lifespans are SHORTENING not growing. I've given countless examples to show how adoption of technologies now are radically more steep then those of even the nineties. The fact you bring this up again shows you've missed the point from the very start on why the BRA's adoption stats are self-serving and show desperation not glee.

If you think it's going to take 10 years to adopt the next wave because that's how long it took in the 90s... please don't invest in the stock market.

Originally Posted by MrSunnyBlack

YOU are being stubborn because you are putting words in my mouth and twisting what I say.

Show me one example and I'll be happy to correct myself.

Originally Posted by MrSunnyBlack

When did I say I didn't understand the concept, you seem to think I did with your tacky last paragraph

Because your actions speak louder then your words. You've demonstrated repeatedly the affinity that the last cycle is the bellweather for the new cycle. Logic that flies directly in the face of history.

Here is a chart from the NYT to help visualize this.. unfortunately I can't find right now the link to the original text of the story (broken link) but it illustrates the point. Look at how not only the speed of technology increases, but it's adoption.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_XJseql2u5l...technology.jpg

[sailerm]

I actually work as a graphic designer within the entertainment industry and teach people how to use computer programs

Didn't I mention earlier that I thought you were a mole? Do you design blue ray covers?

I was a video tape editor, and news producer for over 10 years, but I could still see how the winds of change we effecting the business long before my co-workers. They thought it would never change... and even had been ignoring change around them for years.

[Magenta Panther]

Originally Posted by BC_DisneyGeek

Yes, but, it is also being sold in a DVD sized case which refers to it as "Includes DVD + Blu-ray". The packaging and wording of that set imply a DVD set with a bonus Blu-ray, but it is in fact the same set you bought.

It looks like a DVD set, but anyone buying it for use on their DVD player will find they have the movie, but pretty much all of the extras are inaccessible to them.

Exactly.

[Magenta Panther]

Originally Posted by sir clinksalot

Back to the original topic at hand ... We got our Snow White Blu Ray yesterday (looks AMAZING BTW) and there is NO WAY you can confuse this for a DVD.

Not only does it say BLU-RAY right on top ... Not only is the casing BLUE ... The size of the casing is about 1/4 SMALLER than a standard DVD. If you put the case of the Blue Ray side-by-side with the case of a normal DVD, you can EASILY tell.

Silly me. I failed to notice that it was BLUE (or maybe I did and IT DIDN'T MATTER) and I didn't compare its size to regular DVDs because I thought it WAS a regular DVD. Look, I'm not a tech geek, I'm an average person who buys a DVD occasionally and in fact, has a very small video library (I have limited time in which to spend watching anything on my TV). So I see Snow White in Blockbuster, get excited, buy it and THEN find out it's freaking Blu-Ray. I suppose it's my fault for not knowing enough to check the box, BUT I managed to buy the Pinocchio non-Blu-Ray DVD with no trouble, so gosh I don't know HOW that happened.

IMO, Disney should have put out Snow White in both DVD and Blu-Ray AT THE SAME TIME and CLEARLY marked the boxes with big fat BLU-RAY and STANDARD DVD labels. There should NOT have been an edition with both types of discs inside. That was just plain greedy, boneheaded marketing and I bet I'm not the only customer who made my mistake. Anyway, I am getting Snow White in DVD come November, thanks to the good, understanding folks at Blockbuster who will exchange the Blu-Ray for the standard, but it stinks that I have to wait until late November. This has, overall, been a giant pain in the butt.