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  1. #16

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    Re: Analyst: 30 percent of US Wii-equipped by 2011

    Quote Originally Posted by davewasbaloo View Post
    Here in the UK, PS3 launches next week at $860 compared to the Wii's launch price of $360. Plus the Wii is more fun to play I should imagine based on comparing the launch titles. Add to the fact that I don't need Blu Ray thank you very much. I was able to buy a recordable DVD player with 80 gb hard drive and a Wii for less than the price of a PS3. I know I prefer the choice I made.
    Oh the Wii is fun don't get me wrong, but for me personally it seemed to be a lot more fun when playing with a group of people compared to playing by yourself. I think that is what the system is designed for.

    The price is also another great plus about the Wii. Spend $250 (USA) on it and get a couple of games plus a controller and you've got a pretty nice set up for awhile. But come the end of 2008/2009 the Wii isn't going to be what it is now.
    Class of 2005...

  2. #17

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    Re: Analyst: 30 percent of US Wii-equipped by 2011

    Quote Originally Posted by pizzamousechips View Post
    I wonder, Soul, if you were offered your money back for your Wii system right now, but you had to promise you wouldn't buy one anytime down the road, would you do it?
    Oh, and why or why not?
    I wouldn't give it up. I really believe it has the potential to be a great system, but ironically, I don't see fantastic innovative games coming until the mainstream fad wears off.

    There's no incentive to work on a game like Zelda for years and push the envelope when you can compile a bunch of minigames with cute characters and move just as many, if not more, units with a quarter of the development cost and effort.

  3. #18

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    Re: Analyst: 30 percent of US Wii-equipped by 2011

    Quote Originally Posted by Soulquarian View Post
    I wouldn't give it up. I really believe it has the potential to be a great system, but ironically, I don't see fantastic innovative games coming until the mainstream fad wears off.

    There's no incentive to work on a game like Zelda for years and push the envelope when you can compile a bunch of minigames with cute characters and move just as many, if not more, units with a quarter of the development cost and effort.
    So you'll keep it despite your expectations that no worthwhile games will come out? You're right, that's ironic.

    Or wait, you said "until the mainstream fad wears off." You expect greatness? I'm still confused.

  4. #19

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    Re: Analyst: 30 percent of US Wii-equipped by 2011

    Quote Originally Posted by pizzamousechips View Post
    So you'll keep it despite your expectations that no worthwhile games will come out? You're right, that's ironic.

    Or wait, you said "until the mainstream fad wears off." You expect greatness? I'm still confused.
    My "expectations" are based on the announced games for the Wii. Currently, there are only a year's worth of titles announced. Suprise Suprise, only the 1st party titles are getting a lot of buzz. The same thing happened with the N64 and GC. Even IGN has reported that sales of thrid party games lack a great deal in comparison to 1st party sales.

    The first year of a console's life is not really a good indicator of anything. When the hype surrounding a console fades, that's when you start to see its future, since it's more about the software than the novelty.

    Before anyone wishes to spin that around, I'll clarify. Based on what I've seen so far, I don't see the Wii staying on top. Lackluster online support, crummy HD offerings, only a slight improvement in graphics/hardware = severe handicap on making games more realisitic, dynamic, expansive, etc.

    The PS3 and the 360 are in the position to develop and grow over the next 4 or 5 years. I have a feeling that we've seen pretty much all of what the Wii has to offer. There will be refinements of course, but there's really nowhere else to go. That certainly doesn't mean that Nintendo couldn't make hit after hit of truly fantastic games, but I don't like minigame compilations, and only one Zelda/Mario game usually comes out per Nintendo console life cycle.

  5. #20

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    Re: Analyst: 30 percent of US Wii-equipped by 2011

    Quote Originally Posted by Soulquarian View Post
    My "expectations" are based on the announced games for the Wii. Currently, there are only a year's worth of titles announced. Suprise Suprise, only the 1st party titles are getting a lot of buzz. The same thing happened with the N64 and GC. Even IGN has reported that sales of thrid party games lack a great deal in comparison to 1st party sales.

    The first year of a console's life is not really a good indicator of anything. When the hype surrounding a console fades, that's when you start to see its future, since it's more about the software than the novelty.

    Before anyone wishes to spin that around, I'll clarify. Based on what I've seen so far, I don't see the Wii staying on top. Lackluster online support, crummy HD offerings, only a slight improvement in graphics/hardware = severe handicap on making games more realisitic, dynamic, expansive, etc.

    The PS3 and the 360 are in the position to develop and grow over the next 4 or 5 years. I have a feeling that we've seen pretty much all of what the Wii has to offer. There will be refinements of course, but there's really nowhere else to go. That certainly doesn't mean that Nintendo couldn't make hit after hit of truly fantastic games, but I don't like minigame compilations, and only one Zelda/Mario game usually comes out per Nintendo console life cycle.
    Technically, you hadn't answered the question. Yes or no, do you expect greatness from the Wii down the road? I'll tell ya what. I'll answer it first, and for each console.

    Do I expect future amazing titles from the Wii? Yes.
    Do I... PS3? Yes.
    Do I... Xbox 360? Yes.

    Now, your turn!

    And about this:
    Even IGN has reported that sales of thrid party games lack a great deal in comparison to 1st party sales.
    Sales is generally proportional to the quality and fun value of games, so it makes sense. Nintendo has been cranking out so many games, of course not all of them are triple A titles like we've been expecting from them. But their added value combined is more than triple A worthy. First party is what makes Nintendo Nintendo. Frankly, the third party games are icing on the cake. If I could only choose one video game company to be able to play for the rest of my life, Nintendo would be it. I'm positive tens of thousands of people (if not more) would say the same. Nintendo's value is much greater than Squeenix's one Final Fantasy every two years. Much better than Capcom's 30 uninventive sequels a year. Much more varied than EA's overflow of sports and uninspired non-sports offerings. Name any company. The reason Nintendo's first party games sell better is because they should.

  6. #21

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    Re: Analyst: 30 percent of US Wii-equipped by 2011

    Quote Originally Posted by pizzamousechips View Post
    Technically, you hadn't answered the question. Yes or no, do you expect greatness from the Wii down the road? I'll tell ya what. I'll answer it first, and for each console.

    Do I expect future amazing titles from the Wii? Yes.
    Do I... PS3? Yes.
    Do I... Xbox 360? Yes.

    Now, your turn!
    Well of course each console is going to have great games. I hope the Wii has more fantastic ones than mediocre games, but who knows.

    And about this: Sales is generally proportional to the quality and fun value of games, so it makes sense. Nintendo has been cranking out so many games, of course not all of them are triple A titles like we've been expecting from them. But their added value combined is more than triple A worthy. First party is what makes Nintendo Nintendo. Frankly, the third party games are icing on the cake. If I could only choose one video game company to be able to play for the rest of my life, Nintendo would be it. I'm positive tens of thousands of people (if not more) would say the same. Nintendo's value is much greater than Squeenix's one Final Fantasy every two years. Much better than Capcom's 30 uninventive sequels a year. Much more varied than EA's overflow of sports and uninspired non-sports offerings. Name any company. The reason Nintendo's first party games sell better is because they should.
    What kind of nonsense is that? That's like saying Disney movies are have high profits because they should. That's bad. That means that people well essentially settle for anything because it has the brand name on it. It's what's happening in the Disney parks right now with all these cookie cutter attractions being cloned all over the place.

    Nintendo has 3 powerhouse franchises. Zelda, Mario (the platformers), and Metroid. Other than that, everything is fluff. They don't have as much originality or creativity as people claim they do. Mario Kart has been basically the same game since it came out on the SNES, the Mario Party franchise is so devoid of new stuff that most people don't even release when a new one is released. Pokemon is the almost exactly the same.

    Nothing has changed from Nintendo's previous two generations. They're still following the same formula. The "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" line applies to Nintendo just like it does everyone else. They have a new controller, but software wise, everything is shaping up to be just like the N64 and GC. Heck the Wii is almost the same platform as the GC anyway!

  7. #22

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    Re: Analyst: 30 percent of US Wii-equipped by 2011

    Quote Originally Posted by Soulquarian View Post
    What kind of nonsense is that? That's like saying Disney movies are have high profits because they should. That's bad. That means that people well essentially settle for anything because it has the brand name on it. It's what's happening in the Disney parks right now with all these cookie cutter attractions being cloned all over the place.
    People love to compare video games with anything else. It can't be. Even its own past. We can't predict or note a similarity with the current state of gaming with anything else, because it's always been a unique history-making medium. Reviews garner much bigger publicity than in anything else. Low-budgets and independents actually get a lot of respect if they're well made. Quality games almost always find a way to sell. There are still those horrible games that create sales, but most of the top ten sales in video games have great reviews.
    Nintendo has 3 powerhouse franchises. Zelda, Mario (the platformers), and Metroid. Other than that, everything is fluff. They don't have as much originality or creativity as people claim they do. Mario Kart has been basically the same game since it came out on the SNES, the Mario Party franchise is so devoid of new stuff that most people don't even release when a new one is released. Pokemon is the almost exactly the same.
    Even if I were to allow the statement "3 powerhouse franchises" go by, then name one other party, first/third or anything, that beats that combined power. It'd be hard enough to find one that matches that. The so-called "fluff" is enjoyed by many MANY people, from new (children) to old (nostalgia purposes). I know I love that extra option of a new Kirby, Mario Kart, Pokemon, Mario Party, F-zero, Wario, Advance Wars, Star Fox... I don't buy everything, but that extra option is great. Especially since most of these games get 8-9 out of 10 ratings. I'l get on originality later.

    Nothing has changed from Nintendo's previous two generations. They're still following the same formula. The "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" line applies to Nintendo just like it does everyone else. They have a new controller, but software wise, everything is shaping up to be just like the N64 and GC. Heck the Wii is almost the same platform as the GC anyway!
    "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" is a very strange way of looking at it. Donkey Kong has been changed to a bongo game, a puzzle game, and a tilting game. Wario has been changed into an entirely new genre of minigaming. New benchmark titles have been released like Nintendogs and Brain Age that broke records, and brought in nongamers. Kirby was reinvented in Canvas Curse. Two screens, motion sensing, channels... It seems like Nintendo has been changing quite a bit.

  8. #23

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    Re: Analyst: 30 percent of US Wii-equipped by 2011

    Quote Originally Posted by Soulquarian View Post
    Nintendo has 3 powerhouse franchises. Zelda, Mario (the platformers), and Metroid. Other than that, everything is fluff. They don't have as much originality or creativity as people claim they do. Mario Kart has been basically the same game since it came out on the SNES, the Mario Party franchise is so devoid of new stuff that most people don't even release when a new one is released. Pokemon is the almost exactly the same.
    You are forgetting one of their strongest new franchises: The Smash Bros. series. I don't know of anyone who doesn't own or has played the game. It is arguably one of the best games of GCN and highly antipated by all Nintendo lovers.

  9. #24

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    Re: Analyst: 30 percent of US Wii-equipped by 2011

    Quote Originally Posted by pizzamousechips View Post
    People love to compare video games with anything else. It can't be. Even its own past. We can't predict or note a similarity with the current state of gaming with anything else, because it's always been a unique history-making medium. Reviews garner much bigger publicity than in anything else. Low-budgets and independents actually get a lot of respect if they're well made. Quality games almost always find a way to sell. There are still those horrible games that create sales, but most of the top ten sales in video games have great reviews.
    Not really true. Prince of Persia was a fantastic game when it came out. It got great reviews but never sold great numbers. This made Ubisoft add a bunch of stuff that didn't really fit in order to get higher sales (screeching guitar/heavy metal music for example). Ratchet and Clank/Jak and Daxter were some of the best platformers of the previous generation. Each game improved on the last and also had great critical success. They never really sold close to the numbers of Madden though. Heck, the PSP has more higher rated games than the DS, yet it sells nowhere near as many units as the DS does. Diddy Kong Racing was the the highest selling portable title in Feb. despite having the average rating of 60%.


    Even if I were to allow the statement "3 powerhouse franchises" go by, then name one other party, first/third or anything, that beats that combined power. It'd be hard enough to find one that matches that. The so-called "fluff" is enjoyed by many MANY people, from new (children) to old (nostalgia purposes). I know I love that extra option of a new Kirby, Mario Kart, Pokemon, Mario Party, F-zero, Wario, Advance Wars, Star Fox... I don't buy everything, but that extra option is great. Especially since most of these games get 8-9 out of 10 ratings. I'l get on originality later.
    Nintendo has just now gotten back into the spotlight. And it's not because of a slew of great games either. The Gamecube to date has sold 21.5 million units worldwide. As of January 12th, 2005, the PS2 had already sold 100 million units! And it's still the number one selling console worlwide, beating the Wii, 360 and the PS3.

    Obviously there are people who want to play specifically those types of games, but for two generations, it wasn't the mainstream. The question is, are people jumping on the Wii because of the controller or because they have the best/most original titles? I think it's the controller.

    "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" is a very strange way of looking at it. Donkey Kong has been changed to a bongo game, a puzzle game, and a tilting game. Wario has been changed into an entirely new genre of minigaming. New benchmark titles have been released like Nintendogs and Brain Age that broke records, and brought in nongamers. Kirby was reinvented in Canvas Curse. Two screens, motion sensing, channels... It seems like Nintendo has been changing quite a bit.
    Technically so has Sony and Microsoft. Microsoft was the first to implement a successful online marketplace while Nintendo said gamers didn't want to play online. Sony was the first to include multi-media options out of the box when Nintendo said they were only interested in Making games. Videogame wise, Sony has a high rated game in every category/genre. Microsoft was the first to start implementing HD elements into gaming.

    Quote Originally Posted by UncleTom View Post
    You are forgetting one of their strongest new franchises: The Smash Bros. series. I don't know of anyone who doesn't own or has played the game. It is arguably one of the best games of GCN and highly antipated by all Nintendo lovers.
    Super Smash Bros. is going to be great. I'm looking forward to it, however, I don't think Nintendo's new gaming dempgraphic will jump onto SSB. The coolest thing about the game is using old favorite characters in combat. A lot of the Wii's new user base probably has fond memories of a Mii, and that's about it.

  10. #25

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    Re: Analyst: 30 percent of US Wii-equipped by 2011

    Quote Originally Posted by Soulquarian View Post
    Not really true. Prince of Persia was a fantastic game when it came out. It got great reviews but never sold great numbers. This made Ubisoft add a bunch of stuff that didn't really fit in order to get higher sales (screeching guitar/heavy metal music for example). Ratchet and Clank/Jak and Daxter were some of the best platformers of the previous generation. Each game improved on the last and also had great critical success. They never really sold close to the numbers of Madden though. Heck, the PSP has more higher rated games than the DS, yet it sells nowhere near as many units as the DS does. Diddy Kong Racing was the the highest selling portable title in Feb. despite having the average rating of 60%.
    I said almost. There are much fewer exceptions in gaming than in other media.

    January/February Sales charts from Amazon.com + EGM's scores

    1. WarioWare: Smooth Moves- 8.0, 8.5, 7.5
    2. Guitar Hero 2 Bundle- 9.0, 9.0, 8.5
    3. Gears of War- 10, 9.5, 9.0
    4. Brain Age- 8.5, 9.0, 9.5
    5. Lost Planet: Extreme Condition- 6.5, 8.0, 7.5
    6. The Legend of Zelda: TP- 10, 10, 10
    7. Hotel Dusk- 8.0, 8.0, 10
    8. Kirby Squeak Squad- 7.0, 7.0, 6.0
    9. New Super Mario Bros.-9.5, 10, 8.0
    10. Big Brain Academy- 9.0, 8.5, 7.5
    11. Mario Kart DS- 9.0, 8.5, 8.5
    12. Final Fantasy III- 8.0, 8.0, 7.5
    13. Rainbow Six Vegas- 8.5, 7.0, 8.5
    14. Resistance: Fall of Man- 8.5, 8.0, 9.0
    15. Madden NFL 07- Not Scored

    ...the list goes on. And as you can see, with very few exceptions, the best selling games are pretty darn well reviewed (it's flooded with 8's and aboves... with even some 10's). As a general rule of thumb, a good game will get sales. It's not 100%, but it's more reliable than in other media. You'll always be able to dig up exceptions, but the fact that the world "most" applies here shouldn't be ignored.




    Nintendo has just now gotten back into the spotlight. And it's not because of a slew of great games either. The Gamecube to date has sold 21.5 million units worldwide. As of January 12th, 2005, the PS2 had already sold 100 million units! And it's still the number one selling console worlwide, beating the Wii, 360 and the PS3.
    Any reason to spread the word on fine PS2 statistics, huh Soul? Lol. I'm not even sure why you mentioned that.

    Technically so has Sony and Microsoft. Microsoft was the first to implement a successful online marketplace while Nintendo said gamers didn't want to play online. Sony was the first to include multi-media options out of the box when Nintendo said they were only interested in Making games. Videogame wise, Sony has a high rated game in every category/genre. Microsoft was the first to start implementing HD elements into gaming.
    Your argument wasn't that Nintendo wasn't the only one, you had said that Nintendo hadn't done anything new at all. Now you're going on saying the other companies are just as innovative as Nintendo. It's branching too far for your posts to parallel and make sense. Let's bring it back to what it was: Nintendo's first party sales vs. third party sales.

    I'm saying Nintendo products deserve to sell well. They're good. You're saying (and I don't want to put words in your mouth so correct me if I'm wrong), that Nintendo products don't deserve to sell well because they're unoriginal and undeserving. Oh and that third parties are more creative than Nintendo since they've stuck to a "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" rule. Is that what you said?

  11. #26

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    Re: Analyst: 30 percent of US Wii-equipped by 2011

    Quote Originally Posted by pizzamousechips View Post
    I said almost. There are much fewer exceptions in gaming than in other media.

    ...the list goes on. And as you can see, with very few exceptions, the best selling games are pretty darn well reviewed (it's flooded with 8's and aboves... with even some 10's). As a general rule of thumb, a good game will get sales. It's not 100%, but it's more reliable than in other media. You'll always be able to dig up exceptions, but the fact that the world "most" applies here shouldn't be ignored.
    How many of those games were high profile as opposed to other types? I think it's more of a combination of great scores, publicity, and being from an established developer.

    Any reason to spread the word on fine PS2 statistics, huh Soul? Lol. I'm not even sure why you mentioned that.
    To show that Nintendo is not "in the lead" because of a fantastic gaming product. They're releasing the same games that they have for the past decade, just with a new control scheme.

    Your argument wasn't that Nintendo wasn't the only one, you had said that Nintendo hadn't done anything new at all. Now you're going on saying the other companies are just as innovative as Nintendo. It's branching too far for your posts to parallel and make sense. Let's bring it back to what it was: Nintendo's first party sales vs. third party sales.
    Nintendo's first party games that sell well ARE recycled. The most common phrase heard in Twilight Princess reviews was that it felt very similar to Ocarina of Time. All of their current Wii releases are basically the same mini game with a different cute character.

    I'm saying Nintendo products deserve to sell well. They're good. You're saying (and I don't want to put words in your mouth so correct me if I'm wrong), that Nintendo products don't deserve to sell well because they're unoriginal and undeserving. Oh and that third parties are more creative than Nintendo since they've stuck to a "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" rule. Is that what you said?
    No one "deserves" anything. That's ridiculous. You get what you earn. Nintendo hasn't changed much of its formula in years. If it wasn't for the wiimote, would the Wii be selling as much as it is? Probably not. So it's not the software or games, it's the way you control them that gives Nintendo it's current stance.

  12. #27

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    Re: Analyst: 30 percent of US Wii-equipped by 2011

    Quote Originally Posted by Soulquarian View Post
    Nintendo's first party games that sell well ARE recycled. The most common phrase heard in Twilight Princess reviews was that it felt very similar to Ocarina of Time. All of their current Wii releases are basically the same mini game with a different cute character.
    Resistance: Fall of Man and Motorstorm for PS3 don't fall under the RECYCLED franchises/styles (i.e. racing in 3rd person) because?

  13. #28

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    Re: Analyst: 30 percent of US Wii-equipped by 2011

    On the one hand, I love how we have a Sony-backer on the board. There are so many forums out there where Sony gets bashed and no one is there to talk sense into the bashers. On the other hand, I hate seeing Nintendo bashed, and it seems like that's your secondary objective to promoting Sony.

    I found your 1up blog, why'd you stop posting? I'd read it. Despite our differences in views, I'd read. If you're interested at all, I have a blog, but it's hardly dedicated. I spread it around from games, to movies, to music... to what I'm doing on the weekend. It's my life, and as such it's not amazing, but if anyone cares: www.myspace.com/chrisho
    We don't care about first and last names here right? It's MiceChat!

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    Re: Analyst: 30 percent of US Wii-equipped by 2011

    Quote Originally Posted by UncleTom View Post
    Resistance: Fall of Man and Motorstorm for PS3 don't fall under the RECYCLED franchises/styles (i.e. racing in 3rd person) because?
    Who said Sony was the leader of innovation? I certainly didn't.

    Quote Originally Posted by pizzamousechips View Post
    On the one hand, I love how we have a Sony-backer on the board. There are so many forums out there where Sony gets bashed and no one is there to talk sense into the bashers. On the other hand, I hate seeing Nintendo bashed, and it seems like that's your secondary objective to promoting Sony.
    I think I'm like Al Lutz. I really really like Nintendo, but when they don't deliver, I feel really let down.

    I grew up on Nintendo. I can still find my Nintendo power pajamas with Link, Yoshi, and Mario, I remember watching captain Nintendo and drinking Nintendo fruit flavored soda... Somewhere (N64) Nintendo lost me, and while I think the Wii can bring me back to a raving Nintendo fan, they're just not stepping up.

    I found your 1up blog, why'd you stop posting? I'd read it. Despite our differences in views, I'd read. If you're interested at all, I have a blog, but it's hardly dedicated. I spread it around from games, to movies, to music... to what I'm doing on the weekend. It's my life, and as such it's not amazing, but if anyone cares: www.myspace.com/chrisho
    We don't care about first and last names here right? It's MiceChat!
    That was right around the time I actively wrote in my Xanga, Myspace, etc. Not enough time in the day to write everywhere lol.

  15. #30

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    Re: Analyst: 30 percent of US Wii-equipped by 2011

    What does Soulquarian mean anyway?

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