Analyst: 30 percent of US Wii-equipped by 2011

[Jspider]

At first I just wanted to join in the main arguement but wowzers it's getting big so I guess I'll just stick with a few smaller basic points

But in other console's, the main feature and purpose wasn't the controller. It was a total package. The Wii lacks on everything BUT the controlling scheme. Soon, that's not going to cut it

this was in response to the argument that the DS had a similar approach to the Wii.

I would say I partialy agree with you here, the DS's main purpose was to increase the level of interactivity for sure but it's interface not only brought in the touch screen but also a mic as well as dual screens (which is important for some genres) as opposed to the Wii which has the gyros in both controler pieces and the pointing sensor which are all based off the same motion premise (though a Mic may be coming soon).
However the thing that is often ignored about the DS is that it was still a HUGE jump above the GBA, while the graphics weren't comparable to what the PSP had there was still a pretty big wow factor when switching from GBA to DS simply because of the slightly larger screen better sound larger color pallete and most of all the simply fact that it could render 3D.

The Wii on the other hand, with the exception of a few games, hasn't really shown itself to be truly capable of delivering anything more then the GC. True it is double the power of the GC but it's questionable of this graphical leap is at all comparable to the DS were they added in a faster processor and enabled new things like 3D processing (Wii goes faster has larger memory but we're not hearing much in the way of new shader support or anything like that).


However I would also argue that the Wii has made some concesions to offer more then JUST the controler, after all Nintendo did increase the hardwares speed and memory capability along with packaging in some flash memory and wireless networking. They are setup to do firmware updates and online gaming will eventualy come. Here the weakness isn't that they arn't offering anything besides interface the problem is they're taking their sweet time getting around to delivering on any promise besides interface and developers are following their lead.

Nintendo talked about doing Wiimakes (GC ports with controls patched on) and putting gameplay above graphics, is it any wonder developers are following that advice? Nintendo might be able to pull it off effectivly but others might not be able to. If Nintendo at least offered online support I might be more tolerant of Wiimakes since they could at least delever new ways to play in several different ways but when it's just the control scheme it dissapoints (Prince of Persia I'm looking at YOUUUUU)

[Jspider]

My "expectations" are based on the announced games for the Wii. Currently, there are only a year's worth of titles announced. Suprise Suprise, only the 1st party titles are getting a lot of buzz. The same thing happened with the N64 and GC. Even IGN has reported that sales of thrid party games lack a great deal in comparison to 1st party sales.

The first year of a console's life is not really a good indicator of anything. When the hype surrounding a console fades, that's when you start to see its future, since it's more about the software than the novelty.

Before anyone wishes to spin that around, I'll clarify. Based on what I've seen so far, I don't see the Wii staying on top. Lackluster online support, crummy HD offerings, only a slight improvement in graphics/hardware = severe handicap on making games more realisitic, dynamic, expansive, etc.

The PS3 and the 360 are in the position to develop and grow over the next 4 or 5 years. I have a feeling that we've seen pretty much all of what the Wii has to offer. There will be refinements of course, but there's really nowhere else to go. That certainly doesn't mean that Nintendo couldn't make hit after hit of truly fantastic games, but I don't like minigame compilations, and only one Zelda/Mario game usually comes out per Nintendo console life cycle.

to be fair though most developers counted Nintendo out of the game before last years E3 so it's not suprising that not only is their support lackluster but also slow in coming. People were initialy excited for Ubisofts games and hyped them quite a bit but Ubisoft didn't have a very good follow through on that hype. They flat out ignored IGN's complaints on Red Steel's controls and released the shooter flawed. Their other half hearted ports haven't brought them any good will either Farcry controlled better then Red Steel but the rest of the game besides that was atrocious (sadly if they'd just combined the teams and given Red Steel the Farcry control scheme we would've seen one strong game rather then one mediocre one coupled with one that was outright crap)


you yourself complain about games were motions are substituded for button presses and that's what a slew of the upcoming PS2 ports are

3rd party's are getting SOME hype though EA has done a pretty good job of building up goodwill among the Wii's following with their sports games actualy showing some considerate thought, the high ratings of the Godfather have deffinatly brought them some positive hype (especially since they're including extra content making the game longer lasting then the original release so it's not a strait out port)

Alot of people have also been looking to Capcom while Capcom until recently has given them little to actually look AT but supposedly that will change soon though (I very much enjoyed the creator of Megaman stating that the RE4 engine should be used in more Wii games as that would give us Wii games that don't look WORSE then alot of GC titles)


there are only TWO developers I can think of that arn't getting the type of hype they deserve really

Lucasarts being one, they did NOT anticipate the Wii's success and they were caught off guard by this lightsaber game idea that Nintendo itself pretty much planed in peoples heads, I'm sure the game is in development NOW but it was announced pretty much to just get people to stop asking them about it, I don't expect it for a good while though because they're probably still very much in the early stages of making it (having shut down all GC and Nintendo support last generation)

Konami conversily deserves more credit then some whiners are giving them, they have provided some great origional content with Elebits and Dewy's Adventure looks like it's on the right track to show us some stronger visuals as well as being an entertaining platformer. Who cares if it's a bit kiddy that is similar to what Nintendo has done and if it's a fun and entertaining game Konami should be praised for offering something new and unique and shouldn't be hit with demands for retreds of older more mature franchises (not striking against more mature games simply saying that the Wii IS supposed to be about starting NEW franchises)



as far as the rest of it goes, I think you may be under crediting just how far some solid level design and well thought out resource usage can go for an origional title. There is still alot more for third party's AND Nintendo to explore with the Wii's technology and it's just a matter of willingness by the developers and Nintendo to work these things out, could it be done better on the other systems is the real question. However I think there is plenty of room for expansive games that use the controls to give them their own unique feel and perhaps shine just as brightly as a fully HD game.

I think the big question is will developers other then Nintendo deliver it

I also think you might be scaling back Nintendo's heavy hitter roster a bit, Mario and Zelda are defiantly some of the biggest with Smash Brothers possibly getting even bigger since it combines the best of the best Metroid has enjoyed a recent return to greatness and my spidy sense tells me Nintendo will at least strive to bring up another one of their franchises to that level this time as well. You can't really call the follow up franchises they have slackers either though they still do quite well just not the juggernauts that Mario and Zelda are (for good reason since Mario and Zelda have helped shape an industry) Pokemon is still a huge seller though I will agree with you in that it could use MUCH more innovation then it has seen (with the longstanding TVshow Pokemon probably has the best marketing)

[Soulquarian]

However I would also argue that the Wii has made some concesions to offer more then JUST the controler, after all Nintendo did increase the hardwares speed and memory capability along with packaging in some flash memory and wireless networking. They are setup to do firmware updates and online gaming will eventualy come. Here the weakness isn't that they arn't offering anything besides interface the problem is they're taking their sweet time getting around to delivering on any promise besides interface and developers are following their lead.

Nintendo didn't plan for the Wii to be "upgradeable" via firmware updates. If they had, there would have been a harddrive included. Firmware Updates will probably tweak problems and whatnot, but I don't think we'll see anything close to the enhanced features of Sony or Microsoft.

As for their online plans, it's so broken it's not worth mentioning.

to be fair though most developers counted Nintendo out of the game before last years E3 so it's not suprising that not only is their support lackluster but also slow in coming. People were initialy excited for Ubisofts games and hyped them quite a bit but Ubisoft didn't have a very good follow through on that hype. They flat out ignored IGN's complaints on Red Steel's controls and released the shooter flawed. Their other half hearted ports haven't brought them any good will either Farcry controlled better then Red Steel but the rest of the game besides that was atrocious (sadly if they'd just combined the teams and given Red Steel the Farcry control scheme we would've seen one strong game rather then one mediocre one coupled with one that was outright crap)

Nintendo has ALWAYS had crappy third party support. Regardless of whether or not the Wii was a focus point.

as far as the rest of it goes, I think you may be under crediting just how far some solid level design and well thought out resource usage can go for an origional title. There is still alot more for third party's AND Nintendo to explore with the Wii's technology and it's just a matter of willingness by the developers and Nintendo to work these things out, could it be done better on the other systems is the real question. However I think there is plenty of room for expansive games that use the controls to give them their own unique feel and perhaps shine just as brightly as a fully HD game.

How is that even remotely possible? Have you seen the new animation engine that is being used by Rockstar and Insomniac Games? That stuff isn't going to be able to run on a Wii. There's no "technology" to speak of in the system, it's all about how you manipulate the character onscreen via the controller.

Only the PS3 and 360 have the power to pull of realism in both visual and auditory perceptions. Once developers start really making use of the PS3, there's no way that the Wii will compare to expansive level design. Blu-Ray holds way more information than Wii discs, and with a harddrive, you could basically run levels from their and STILL have room to spare.

I also think you might be scaling back Nintendo's heavy hitter roster a bit, Mario and Zelda are defiantly some of the biggest with Smash Brothers possibly getting even bigger since it combines the best of the best Metroid has enjoyed a recent return to greatness and my spidy sense tells me Nintendo will at least strive to bring up another one of their franchises to that level this time as well. You can't really call the follow up franchises they have slackers either though they still do quite well just not the juggernauts that Mario and Zelda are (for good reason since Mario and Zelda have helped shape an industry) Pokemon is still a huge seller though I will agree with you in that it could use MUCH more innovation then it has seen (with the longstanding TVshow Pokemon probably has the best marketing)

Nintendo usually releases one of each major franchise. One Mario Platformer, One Zelda title, One Metroid. Sony will have the Mario platformer beat with Ratchet & Clank, God of War III has the potential to topple Zelda, and Metroid is just another FPS, there will be lots of 360 and PS3 titles to trump it, especially when it comes to online multiplayer.

[pizzamousechips]

Nintendo usually releases one of each major franchise. One Mario Platformer, One Zelda title, One Metroid. Sony will have the Mario platformer beat with Ratchet & Clank, God of War III has the potential to topple Zelda, and Metroid is just another FPS, there will be lots of 360 and PS3 titles to trump it, especially when it comes to online multiplayer.

I love to give your statements the benefit of the doubt, but Ratchet beating Mario? Anything beating Zelda?


First, how would Mario be beat by Ratchet? Sales? Reviews? I'm curious how this is going to happen. No matter what, it won't happen in sales. Reviews I can see it being possible, but my god I have to stretch my mind for that to happen. Having played Galaxy, I can say the core gameplay is not a disappointment. Ratchet games are amazing, but it's far from Mario status yet.

Second, God of War may be great, but nothing gets as much acclaim as the Zelda games. Twilight Princess got a perfect 10, 10, 10 in EGM (so did Ocarina of Time). Even if God of War III improved on its predecessors to nab a perfect rating (GoW II= 9.5, 9.0, 9.0), its fanbase wouldn't match the behemoth that Zelda's is. So, God of War III beating Zelda? Sales, no. Reviews, with Zelda's amazing track record, probably not. God of War reaching Zelda status? The only other game reaching into the heavens that high is possibly Final Fantasy.

Ratchet > Mario... kidding me?
God of War > Zelda... you're not oblivious to Zelda's following, so I don't know why you'd say this.

[Soulquarian]

[quote=pizzamousechips;1546289]I love to give your statements the benefit of the doubt, but Ratchet beating Mario? Anything beating Zelda?

First, how would Mario be beat by Ratchet? Sales? Reviews? I'm curious how this is going to happen. No matter what, it won't happen in sales. Reviews I can see it being possible, but my god I have to stretch my mind for that to happen. Having played Galaxy, I can say the core gameplay is not a disappointment. Ratchet games are amazing, but it's far from Mario status yet.

Review wise, The R&C franchise is about even with Mario. But, only one Mario platformer comes out per console life. There were 4 R&C games for the PS2. Sometimes when something has been so good for so long, we give it the benefit of the doubt regardless. I think R&C as a franchise is better than Mario. Reviews say they're about equal.

Sales? That's where my other point comes in. High reviews does not equal sales.

Second, God of War may be great, but nothing gets as much acclaim as the Zelda games. Twilight Princess got a perfect 10, 10, 10 in EGM (so did Ocarina of Time). Even if God of War III improved on its predecessors to nab a perfect rating (GoW II= 9.5, 9.0, 9.0), its fanbase wouldn't match the behemoth that Zelda's is. So, God of War III beating Zelda? Sales, no. Reviews, with Zelda's amazing track record, probably not. God of War reaching Zelda status? The only other game reaching into the heavens that high is possibly Final Fantasy.

I go by GameRankings.com The average scores put GoW and TP at equal footing. However, no one can deny the sense of pure power that you feel while playing GoW. The opening boss battle in GoW I is proof of that.

Sales? Like I said before, high reviews do not equal great sales.

Ratchet > Mario... kidding me?
God of War > Zelda... you're not oblivious to Zelda's following, so I don't know why you'd say this.

FANTASTIC POINT. Following. Zelda fans (and Nintendo fans for that matter) will buy pretty much anything regardless of what is said. WindWaker was highly criticized by many people for the cel shading boyhood link, but it was still one of the biggest sellers.

[UncleTom]

Who said Sony was the leader of innovation? I certainly didn't.

Then who is? It obviously isn't Nintendo. Yet you say it isn't Sony, and you are defending Sony. You can't argue for the sake of RECYCLED material when it is clear that games from both systems are recycled.

[Soulquarian]

Then who is? It obviously isn't Nintendo. Yet you say it isn't Sony, and you are defending Sony. You can't argue for the sake of RECYCLED material when it is clear that games from both systems are recycled.

Nintendo always claims itself as the innovator. I can provide countless PR and public announcements by Nintendo in which they say their console which change the way we see games. There's a reason why the codename for the Wii was "Revolution".

I'm not defending Sony, I'm stating what I see to be as reality. Where did Sony say that Resistance or Motorstorm were going to change the way we see videogames?

[Jspider]

Nintendo didn't plan for the Wii to be "upgradeable" via firmware updates. If they had, there would have been a harddrive included. Firmware Updates will probably tweak problems and whatnot, but I don't think we'll see anything close to the enhanced features of Sony or Microsoft.

As for their online plans, it's so broken it's not worth mentioning.



Nintendo has ALWAYS had crappy third party support. Regardless of whether or not the Wii was a focus point.



How is that even remotely possible? Have you seen the new animation engine that is being used by Rockstar and Insomniac Games? That stuff isn't going to be able to run on a Wii. There's no "technology" to speak of in the system, it's all about how you manipulate the character onscreen via the controller.

Only the PS3 and 360 have the power to pull of realism in both visual and auditory perceptions. Once developers start really making use of the PS3, there's no way that the Wii will compare to expansive level design. Blu-Ray holds way more information than Wii discs, and with a harddrive, you could basically run levels from their and STILL have room to spare.



Nintendo usually releases one of each major franchise. One Mario Platformer, One Zelda title, One Metroid. Sony will have the Mario platformer beat with Ratchet & Clank, God of War III has the potential to topple Zelda, and Metroid is just another FPS, there will be lots of 360 and PS3 titles to trump it, especially when it comes to online multiplayer.

um yeah Nintendo DID plan for it to be upgradeable they pretty much said it before the system even launched :P at the very least it will be just as upgradable as the PSP has been, maybe not as upgradeable as the 360 or PS3 because of the HD but it IS very much an upgradeable machine


Their online plans aren't as great as Sony's or Microsoft's but they ARE worth mentoining because it IS a form of growth for the console, I do feel that their early online games are going to be a bit of a disappointment in that they will be less then what their competitors offer but it is still up to Nintendo to IMPROVE on this and they CAN reverse their decision for later games so this IS an area were the Wii has growth potential in were as your original argument was that the Wii has nothing BUT the controller


Nintendo HAS had bad third party support but this time it's actually getting BETTER. Your complaint was that third party games weren't getting much hype I merely pointed out WHY most of them aren't receiving hype as well as pointing out that there are quite a few that ARE getting attention. Third Party support generally seems much better for the Wii then say the N64. It's important to realize WHY third party support has been poor.


Hey now Kojima himself said that when you strip away HD textures polygons and enhanced sound there isn't actualy that much room left to increase the length and scope of the game

I'm not arguing that the Wii will have graphics to fight back with but games can still grow game design wise on the hardware that HASN'T changed, they can still improve animations interactivity and many other facets of gaming. Look at the DS technically it isn't much more then a portable N64 but graphically it's got a few games that do things I've never seen the N64 do mostly because at this point development for that type of hardware is much better rounded and artists are much better about getting things to look good (MPH managed to get very close to GC in graphical presentation simply due to art direction and long development time). Level design is still a HUGE part of this and improvements can still be made and Wii games can still be bigger then PS2 and GC predecessors

I'm NOT saying they'll be as big as 360 or PS3 games that push their hardware to the limit however but games that actually manage to DO that are few in number anyways. BTW Blue Ray is for PS3 only MS has gone on record of saying their games will stick to Multi layered DVD's (which are also supported by Wii)



I'll give you Zelda just because Twilight Princess is a late coming technicality but your wrong on Metroid, Metroid was dead in the water for a full generation until the GC came along and since then we've seen TWO Metroids on GC and one on DS. Corruption is the end of the trilogy but that doesn't necessarily mean it will be the only Metroid game seen on the Wii. Mario will have at least two platformers on the system and it's hard to say weather or not we'll see another but this time Paper Mario is going to be a platformer game rather then an RPG of course theres also Kirby, DK, Wario and possibly Kid Icarus platfotmers out there as well.

Ratchet and Clank can't topple Mario on release numbers alone, it's just not seen as being as forward moving or standard setting as Mario has been. There's also the question of WILL Ratchet and Clank see another three releases on PS3, Mario saw 3 releases on his origional system before going back to his one platformer game per system pattern (though the GB and DS have both seen two Mario games *not counting Mario Land 3 which was a Wario game*)

The Zelda vs God of War comparison is just rediculous considering one is a puzzle ADVENTURE game and the other is mostly a hack and slash ACTION game. God of War probably has more in common with Project Hammer then Zelda 9_9 (I'll give God of War the win there I don't see Project Hammer as being that great unless there's some huge news on it at E3 or something)

Metroid has a very unique theme and emphasis that sets it apart from being just another shooter (a statement which emplys it's fairly generic) it certainly didn't win all those awards last generation for nothing it's alot more adventure oriented then most shooters to there arn't many other games that compare but I'm not sure how mainstream Metroid is.

It's also worth noting that Metroid is mostly AMERICAN developed, ever since Nintendo has resurrected the franchise it has launched in America BEFORE Japan. It is developed by Retro studios (former second party now first party) which is based in Texas. MPH however was developed by Nintendo Software Technology which is based in Washington. However they've all been developed with an american emphasis which has actually decreased the Metroid franchise's popularity in Japan (with the exception of the 2D games such as the ones released for gameboy)

Online multiplayer is speculative for Metroid (though I do hope for it) it's hard to say if anything will trounce it because it rely's on it's unique merits and so far no other shooter has tried Metroids form of emphasis or style (mostly because Halo is the big FPS) Metroid is still going to stand out on it's own though

[Jspider]

Nintendo always claims itself as the innovator. I can provide countless PR and public announcements by Nintendo in which they say their console which change the way we see games. There's a reason why the codename for the Wii was "Revolution".

I'm not defending Sony, I'm stating what I see to be as reality. Where did Sony say that Resistance or Motorstorm were going to change the way we see videogames?

when they said that they were bringing us four dimensional gaming?

I suppose most press releases are full of buzzwords and crud though Nintendo's does tend to be Innovation even before the Wii arrived