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  1. #1

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    Post GameDaily: Wii Won't Rock You Revisited; Were Wii Wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by GameDaily.com
    Last year, we published an op-ed piece about the Wii and its prospects for the coming generation. It presented an argument contrary to the popular sentiment, namely that the system would come in third in the then looming console war. We figured it would draw a response from our readers, but the scope of responses surprised us a little bit. To date, we have received more email over that feature than any other single piece in the history of GameDaily BIZ.

    This response article has honestly been brooding in our minds since less than a month after "Wii Won't Rock You" was written. With the holidays period upon us, a time when the fluctuating console war should start taking form, it seemed like as good a time as any to revisit the issue. Namely, that while the Wii has put up impressive hardware sales numbers, taking the top slot from the Xbox 360 earlier this year, a closer examination reveals a much more complex image of the console industry, despite what the antithesis of last year's article may have said.
    http://www.gamedaily.com/articles/fe.../?biz=1&page=1

    Interesting article!

  2. #2

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    Re: GameDaily: Wii Won't Rock You Revisited; Were Wii Wrong?

    The article is way too biased.

  3. #3

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    Re: GameDaily: Wii Won't Rock You Revisited; Were Wii Wrong?

    Not really. I pretty much said the same things before the Wii launched. Fast Forward to the present, and I was pretty close.

    The Wii lives on casual minigames, third party titles that aim at traditional gamers don't move copies, the PS3 is starting to move more units because of the price drop, and the 360 is still hated in Japan.

    The only thing I was wrong about was the PS3 having good games coming out a year after release. I think that's just a matter of time though. Most of the powerhouse AAA titles have been pushed back to the 1st quarter of '08.

  4. #4

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    Re: GameDaily: Wii Won't Rock You Revisited; Were Wii Wrong?

    Interesting article.

    I kind of agree with SoulQ. The Wii really is a casual gamer system. And there is nothing wrong with that.

    I do however think that more 3rd party games will start finding success on the Wii. The first Rayman was a nice surprise for the Wii, and I'm sure #2 will as well.

    Not to mention the Lego Star Wars that is now on the Wii.

    Granted, certain games I still feel are better on more traditional systems. For instance, we bought our son the Transformer Movie game on the PS2 rather than the Wii.


  5. #5

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    Re: GameDaily: Wii Won't Rock You Revisited; Were Wii Wrong?

    Kinda bums me out. The Wii is just wasted potential right now. The only third party games that sell, are the ones that follow the same generic minigame format.

    Eventually, people are going to get bored with that, and the Wii is going to lose ground...

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    Re: GameDaily: Wii Won't Rock You Revisited; Were Wii Wrong?

    ^ Not so sure about that one. I think it will lose some of the core gamer audience, but with non-gamers, I don't think they are going to be bored so much.

    For us we bought 8 Wii games for Christmas. In addition, some games that are popular with gamers such as Mario Kart/Super Smash Brothers are going to be coming out in the next few months.

    And the word of mouth about Zack and Wiki has been phenomenal. Kind of reminds me of the way that the original Katamari started slow and built to quite a big following.


  7. #7

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    Re: GameDaily: Wii Won't Rock You Revisited; Were Wii Wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by sir clinksalot View Post
    ^ Not so sure about that one. I think it will lose some of the core gamer audience, but with non-gamers, I don't think they are going to be bored so much.

    For us we bought 8 Wii games for Christmas. In addition, some games that are popular with gamers such as Mario Kart/Super Smash Brothers are going to be coming out in the next few months.

    And the word of mouth about Zack and Wiki has been phenomenal. Kind of reminds me of the way that the original Katamari started slow and built to quite a big following.
    The problem with aiming at the Mainstream is that the Mainstream is so fickle. If they follow trends like other entertainment forms (music, movies, etc), the general public is going to lose interest.

    More and more of my gaming friends are putting their Wii's up for sale. I think it's a trend. Nintendo is so slow with non-minigame 1st party titles, that they can't supply enough games to keep core gamers interested. Third party developers aren't interested in making non-minigames for the Wii because they don't sell. The Wii fails to get its core audience interested in anything but the casual stuff...

    Blessing and a curse.

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    Re: GameDaily: Wii Won't Rock You Revisited; Were Wii Wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by Soulquarian View Post
    The problem with aiming at the Mainstream is that the Mainstream is so fickle. If they follow trends like other entertainment forms (music, movies, etc), the general public is going to lose interest.
    The problem with this statement is that you're comparing the Wii to genre's, when you should be comparing it to other mediums. Did you throw away your DVD player when your tastes in movies changed or did you buy different DVD's to fit your new taste?

    The Wii is mini-games because that is what its core-market wants. When this core-market decides that its tastes have changed, the genre's can be adjusted to fit these new flavors. Right now, the market is showing that the consumers want mini-games so the
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    Re: GameDaily: Wii Won't Rock You Revisited; Were Wii Wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by Soulquarian View Post
    Nintendo is so slow with non-minigame 1st party titles, that they can't supply enough games to keep core gamers interested.
    Nintendo's marketing has never been to the core-gamer, so why would they worry about supplying games for this segment? Nintendo realized that Sony and MS both own these markets and its future lies with the MUCH larger casual gamer market. That is why they are as successful as they are today. They have designed the console that the casual gamer has been looking for.
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  10. #10

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    Re: GameDaily: Wii Won't Rock You Revisited; Were Wii Wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by justjohn View Post
    The Wii is mini-games because that is what its core-market wants. When this core-market decides that its tastes have changed, the genre's can be adjusted to fit these new flavors. Right now, the market is showing that the consumers want mini-games so the
    I don't buy that one bit. Nintendo has ALWAYS been slow when it comes to getting 1st party games out in the market. For the past few generations, they've had pretty poor 3rd party support. The mini-games let them essentially make a series of low quality titles with little to no development time.

    Quote Originally Posted by justjohn View Post
    Nintendo's marketing has never been to the core-gamer, so why would they worry about supplying games for this segment? Nintendo realized that Sony and MS both own these markets and its future lies with the MUCH larger casual gamer market. That is why they are as successful as they are today. They have designed the console that the casual gamer has been looking for.
    BS.

    Up until recently, Nintendo has constantly marketed the Wii as a revolutionary gaming system. Reggie Fils-Aime talked at length about how the Wii would be better in genres like sports, FPS, etc.

    They never onced mentioned that their bread and butter was going to be Mini-games. Everything Nintendo said prior to about 8 months ago is basically moot if that's the case.

  11. #11

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    Re: GameDaily: Wii Won't Rock You Revisited; Were Wii Wrong?

    it has been revolutionary - just look at what its done in the market. Just because its not the revolution YOU want Soulq... keep holding onto that sinking ship of yours. Do you moan over Guitar Hero... DDR... and other 'simple' game styles too?

    Gaming will continue - Innovative Designers will still design the games THEY want. The ubisofts, Activisions of the world will flood the market will crap games like they always do, but there will always be the artists looking to make THEIR game.

    There will still be games like F2... Bioshock... and others.

    Just because there are a few more puzzle and other games on the shelves with the others isn't the sign of the apocalypse... just like when all the crap FPSs were around.. or all the crap RTS games... or all the crap MMORPGs... or whatever the latest 'buzz' is. Eventually the good sticks and the bad fades away.

    As long as there are enough people willing to buy the style of game you want... there will be publishers looking to address that need.

    The real story is how the "next gen" wasn't so next gen - and the fact that 'inferior' hardware continues to DOMINATE sales... between the PS2.. the DS... and the Wii - the market has spoken. $500 dollar game systems are a bad idea - especially if you can't differentiate yourself in a way that swings the market. What the companies are doing in R&D right now for their next hardware cycle I bet would be pretty suprising to listen to. I gauruntee the next gen will not be just 'bigger and faster'.
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  12. #12

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    Re: GameDaily: Wii Won't Rock You Revisited; Were Wii Wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by flynnibus View Post
    it has been revolutionary - just look at what its done in the market. Just because its not the revolution YOU want Soulq... keep holding onto that sinking ship of yours. Do you moan over Guitar Hero... DDR... and other 'simple' game styles too?
    Not at all. Because they are just games. It's different when a whole console revolves around one type of game.

    Nothing revolutionary about minigames. It hasn't grown the market because the majority of people who play Wii games never play anything else.

    Just because there are a few more puzzle and other games on the shelves with the others isn't the sign of the apocalypse... just like when all the crap FPSs were around.. or all the crap RTS games... or all the crap MMORPGs... or whatever the latest 'buzz' is. Eventually the good sticks and the bad fades away.
    That's almost never been true for Nintendo. Everyone's been outlining how many third party developers just don't want to make anything for the Wii. The games they make don't sell.

    As long as there are enough people willing to buy the style of game you want... there will be publishers looking to address that need.
    :looks at the Wii:

    The real story is how the "next gen" wasn't so next gen - and the fact that 'inferior' hardware continues to DOMINATE sales... between the PS2.. the DS... and the Wii - the market has spoken. $500 dollar game systems are a bad idea - especially if you can't differentiate yourself in a way that swings the market. What the companies are doing in R&D right now for their next hardware cycle I bet would be pretty suprising to listen to. I gauruntee the next gen will not be just 'bigger and faster'.
    All that shows is that mediocrity sells. The same thing happens with sell phones. A Blackberry is infinitely better than a cheap Samsung Slider, but which sells more? The Wii's primary selling point is its price. The software is incredibly tedious at this point. Almost every gaming publication has been calling Nintendo on the endless flood of minigames, especially when there are almost no games of substance on this supposed revolutionary system.

  13. #13

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    Re: GameDaily: Wii Won't Rock You Revisited; Were Wii Wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by Soulquarian View Post
    Not at all. Because they are just games. It's different when a whole console revolves around one type of game.
    Who cares - don't play them then. The whole point is the Wii will not alter every game of the future to purely be a minigame. If you don't like the games available for your Wii - then sell it. You're an idiot for not cashing in on it this season as much as you moan about it. Free yourself from the bonds of Nintendo's stupidity and make enough money to buy something you want.

    Quote Originally Posted by Soulquarian View Post
    Nothing revolutionary about minigames. It hasn't grown the market because the majority of people who play Wii games never play anything else.
    It HAS grown the market. The very definition is people who were not in the market - who now are. Just because they aren't buying the games you buy or consider 'worthy' doesn't mean jack. The reality is thousands of people are buying Wiis and DSs and other consoles that never did before.

    Quote Originally Posted by Soulquarian View Post
    That's almost never been true for Nintendo.
    Really? If all they did was have the SUCK games - why do people continue to buy them? Why do people that have OWNED the previous systems - continue to buy them? If they were so pathetic - the market wouldn't return to buy them again (remember your arguements about how all nintendo customers are just repeat customers and Nintendo just milks the same customers?).

    Your arguement has been that these games will ruin gaming. Its just not going to happen... just like FPS didn't... just like RTS didn't... just like MMORPG didn't. If in your opinion it has already ruined Nintendo - SO WHAT - you don't like it don't use it. Move on... go play the games on other systems.

    Quote Originally Posted by Soulquarian View Post
    Everyone's been outlining how many third party developers just don't want to make anything for the Wii. The games they make don't sell.
    Well then they'll adapt. They'll either make stuff people want, or they won't make games for the Wii.

    Quote Originally Posted by Soulquarian View Post
    All that shows is that mediocrity sells.
    So you lump your precious PS2 in there? Because it continues to sell well.

    Ahh yes.. back to the elitest, 'artist' arguement. Chevy's aren't as good as Lexus - but they sell to. Why? Because they address a need in the market. You can stand on your soapbox and cry how everyone should be playing YOUR style of game - it doesn't change what other people desire. In your reality only the 'best' product should exist. Well sorry, in reality there is more then one axis in which products are designed and sold around.

    And its not smoke and mirrors - these platforms have all been here for a least a year - and in the case of PS2 SEVEN years. Yet in thanksgiving, Nintendo continues to sell INSANE numbers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Soulquarian View Post
    The same thing happens with sell phones. A Blackberry is infinitely better than a cheap Samsung Slider, but which sells more? The Wii's primary selling point is its price.
    Really? Then why aren't the $20 'plug in TV' games just steam rolling everyone? Get over it. There is more then one dimension to the market. Just like there is room for Chevy to make cars - and Ferrari, they recognize that each offers different things for different people. Ferrari couldn't sell a car at 10,000 if they even desired to - just like Chevy couldn't build a Enzo - the difference here is both sides know that and don't go on adnasum about who is 'superior' at everything and that the only reason someone buys the other guys product is because they are

    - a lemming
    - stupid
    - 'not a real car person'
    etc

    Quote Originally Posted by Soulquarian View Post
    The software is incredibly tedious at this point. Almost every gaming publication has been calling Nintendo on the endless flood of minigames, especially when there are almost no games of substance on this supposed revolutionary system.
    Maybe the publications are out of touch as well with the audience Nintendo is addressing? It's called 'out of touch' - something you might be familiar with.

    Quote Originally Posted by Soulquarian View Post
    especially when there are almost no games of substance on this supposed revolutionary system.
    So how has the PS3 changed the market since it's launch?
    How has the 360?

    None of these high end systems have had a break-through... an inflection point in the market... or dramatically changed how games are played. That's why neither of them has expanded the market, nor taken a dominating lead over the other, or managed to kill off a system with PATHETIC technical specs compared to theirs. Sony's R&D and Product Management was completely wrong on what the industry was after. Microsoft was more conservative and leaned heavily on their Live model and 'games for windows' initiatives and took a more reserved approach with their target price points and feature sets. Those choices have been decent to them, while Sony's have continued to be the albatross around the parent's neck when it was the one who was supposed to turn Sony around.

    Meanwhile Nintendo is laughing all the way to the bank because they took a risk and its paying off in spades... and the other guys are scrambling to try to copy it (Xbox360 Arcade, PS3 price points, more retro games in emulation downloads, etc).
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  14. #14

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    Re: GameDaily: Wii Won't Rock You Revisited; Were Wii Wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by flynnibus View Post
    Who cares - don't play them then. The whole point is the Wii will not alter every game of the future to purely be a minigame. If you don't like the games available for your Wii - then sell it. You're an idiot for not cashing in on it this season as much as you moan about it. Free yourself from the bonds of Nintendo's stupidity and make enough money to buy something you want.
    What would be the purpose of praising a system that does nothing that it was intended to do? The article even referenced this. If Nintendo continues down this path, they won't be in the lead for long.

    It HAS grown the market. The very definition is people who were not in the market - who now are. Just because they aren't buying the games you buy or consider 'worthy' doesn't mean jack. The reality is thousands of people are buying Wiis and DSs and other consoles that never did before.
    They're only buying Nintendo games that fit a certain mold. They don't branch out into other types of games, genres, or consoles in general. That's not growing the market. That's capitalizing on a fad. Reggie specifically stated that the Wii would bring the non-gamers, casual gamers, and female crowd into the world of gaming. It would be a gateway. So far it hasn't been.

    Really? If all they did was have the SUCK games - why do people continue to buy them? Why do people that have OWNED the previous systems - continue to buy them? If they were so pathetic - the market wouldn't return to buy them again (remember your arguements about how all nintendo customers are just repeat customers and Nintendo just milks the same customers?).
    You just answered your own question. Nintendo fans are DIEHARDS. There are so many editorials and articles pointing out the stagnant odor the Wii is leaving at the moment. Nintendo has sat firmly in third place for more than one generation. The only reason they're still here is because of the handheld gaming genre. Nintendo is almost like Ford in a way. There are a lot of people who will follow them to the end of the earth. The only difference is that Ford doesn't have some alternative source of funds that yields a high profit like Nintendo.

    Your arguement has been that these games will ruin gaming. Its just not going to happen... just like FPS didn't... just like RTS didn't... just like MMORPG didn't. If in your opinion it has already ruined Nintendo - SO WHAT - you don't like it don't use it. Move on... go play the games on other systems.
    I never made that argument, I always said if the market shifts towards one type, that's what the majority of gaming will be. Is that not happening right now? When the FPS was hot on the PS2, there were still lots of great games to be found. Sony routinely had high rated titles in a variety of genres from both its in house studios and from third parties. Nintendo doesn't.

    Well then they'll adapt. They'll either make stuff people want, or they won't make games for the Wii.
    Did you read what Rockstar recently said about Nintendo? Did you read the article? Most third party developers simply cash in on the Wii by making cheap ports. Doesn't matter how ugly the graphics or sloppy the gameplay, because the primary Wii gamer isn't familiar with any of that stuff. As long as something on the screen reacts to them flailing their arms about, they're happy.

    So you lump your precious PS2 in there? Because it continues to sell well.
    The PS2 was a gamer specific platform. It wasn't aimed at the general sugar eating public. The PS2 sold well because it had boatloads of titles, great exclusives, and lots of critically acclaimed games. Its target demographic expected quality. This is not true with the Wii. It aims at the same group of people that make Brittney Spears number 1 on the Billboard Charts.

    Ahh yes.. back to the elitest, 'artist' arguement. Chevy's aren't as good as Lexus - but they sell to. Why? Because they address a need in the market. You can stand on your soapbox and cry how everyone should be playing YOUR style of game - it doesn't change what other people desire. In your reality only the 'best' product should exist. Well sorry, in reality there is more then one axis in which products are designed and sold around.
    There must be a lot of "elitest" people then...

    The reality is that most gamers want variety. Do I care that the Wii has minigames? Not really. Do I care that almost ALL the games that are released are minigames? Of course, especially when there's so much untapped potential. Call it elitest if you want...

    And its not smoke and mirrors - these platforms have all been here for a least a year - and in the case of PS2 SEVEN years. Yet in thanksgiving, Nintendo continues to sell INSANE numbers.
    Mediocrity always does when you're dealing with the general public.

    Really? Then why aren't the $20 'plug in TV' games just steam rolling everyone? Get over it. There is more then one dimension to the market. Just like there is room for Chevy to make cars - and Ferrari, they recognize that each offers different things for different people. Ferrari couldn't sell a car at 10,000 if they even desired to - just like Chevy couldn't build a Enzo - the difference here is both sides know that and don't go on adnasum about who is 'superior' at everything and that the only reason someone buys the other guys product is because they are

    - a lemming
    - stupid
    - 'not a real car person'
    etc
    I'd say because of ignorance. People are paying up to $10 for an old game on the Wii when you can buy a compilation of games for far less.

    Yes there's room for both to exist, but why do we still have thread after thread comparing sells figures? The Wii doesn't deliver on what it was supposed to. Almost every point Reggie-Fils Aime, Miyamoto, and countles other talking heads at Nintendo has fallen flat on its face.

    Maybe the publications are out of touch as well with the audience Nintendo is addressing? It's called 'out of touch' - something you might be familiar with.
    How so when Nintendo still courts the gaming market? Nintendo couldn't hang, so now they choose to alter the game and bring in a neutral party. All of my friends hate Disneyland and would never go if they had the choice. Despite what they say, they can't make me somehow look at Magic Mountain and see quality. As long as they have a cheap thrill, they're happy. I like a little more.

    So how has the PS3 changed the market since it's launch?
    How has the 360?
    Who said they were going to? They delivered on what they said they would. The PS3 is a great multi-media system. The 360 is still the best online experience. They said games would look better and have more connectivity. I'd say they hit the nail on the head.

    None of these high end systems have had a break-through... an inflection point in the market... or dramatically changed how games are played. That's why neither of them has expanded the market, nor taken a dominating lead over the other, or managed to kill off a system with PATHETIC technical specs compared to theirs. Sony's R&D and Product Management was completely wrong on what the industry was after. Microsoft was more conservative and leaned heavily on their Live model and 'games for windows' initiatives and took a more reserved approach with their target price points and feature sets. Those choices have been decent to them, while Sony's have continued to be the albatross around the parent's neck when it was the one who was supposed to turn Sony around.
    They were right with the exception of price. As we can see from the sales figures.

    Meanwhile Nintendo is laughing all the way to the bank because they took a risk and its paying off in spades... and the other guys are scrambling to try to copy it (Xbox360 Arcade, PS3 price points, more retro games in emulation downloads, etc).
    Nintendo's getting paid, but everything the article stated was still true. All Nintendo is proving is that the average consumer does not think with much common sense. Sell old games at a premium price when they can be found elsewhere for VERY cheap. Sell a base console at a low price, but make everything that's needed to complete the experience a seperate price. Then watch as the consumer looks at the competitor as "expensive". Release the same game over and over with a slightly different look, and watch as consumers say it's innovation.

  15. #15

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    Re: GameDaily: Wii Won't Rock You Revisited; Were Wii Wrong?

    like talking to a wall
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