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  1. #76

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    from "somewhat ridiculous"

    Quote Originally Posted by BoogaFrito View Post
    I find the notion that Disneyland is some sort of commune to be somewhat ridiculous. Someone always wants to dust off the class warfare rhetoric.

    In Walt's day, people had to pay per ride...
    Back when people paid separately for rides, the tickets were within the budgets of Disneyland's and Walt Disney World's middle-class guests.

  2. #77

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    Angry WARNING: Don't read my posts; I'm an idiot!

    Quote Originally Posted by pussnboots View Post
    Gray stuff? Served with flair? That's not Orwell, that's Lumiere the talking candlestick.

    But I do understand the worries about class divisions. If Deluxe hotel guests were to be given club jackets and shiny golden UberFastPasses to special entrances with valets and red carpets and led onto spacious first-class cars on the Railroad with the commoners forced to watch from their overstuffed queues... I too would be a little sick to my stomach. Even if I were the one with the club jacket and the shiny UberFastPass.

    As it is, things feel reasonably fair. I might feel like a poor ******* when I'm at an expensive hotel in which I might never be able to afford a night's stay, but at the parks things are considerably more proletarian
    . . .
    Eloquent, incisive and funny post, pussnboots! Now I'm going to have to search for all the posts you've written.

    I wasn't aware that I had twice quoted "Beauty and the Beast." With "flair" I thought I was referencing "Office Space," but it's possible I am going through my life unaware that almost everything I say has been implanted by Big Mickey.

  3. #78

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    Re: Disney's Fast Pass is not free anymore !

    Quote Originally Posted by TimmyTimmyTimmy View Post
    Should drug users get free drugs to prevent crime?
    i don't see how drugs and fastpass compare. I also do not see people buying illegal drugs on ebay.

  4. #79

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    Re: Disney's Fast Pass is not free anymore !

    Quote Originally Posted by Baloo View Post
    i don't see how drugs and fastpass compare. I also do not see people buying illegal drugs on ebay.
    I ment that should and could are different.

    What ever they do IŽd never pay pay to cut the line. But if they fix that dirty park perhaps it would be more worth it... in some way.
    The world according me: http://www.youtube.com/user/TimmyME

  5. #80

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    Re: from "somewhat ridiculous"

    Quote Originally Posted by jcruise86 View Post
    Back when people paid separately for rides, the tickets were within the budgets of Disneyland's and Walt Disney World's middle-class guests.
    The middle class was smaller back then than it is today, even in the early 80's. Even so, the per-ride payment scheme meant they had to budget out the number of rides (and repeats) they could experience, all depending on their income. Those filthy rich people were able to ride Jungle Cruise over and over, higgledy-piggledy!

    In this case, FastPass would still be free (despite what the deceptive thread title would have you believe). To hear the people here tell it, Disney will be erecting huge iron fences behind which a crowd of destitute little ragamuffins will gather, pressing their dirty little faces to the bars just to catch a glimpse of the prim and proper well-to-do, with their top hats, manservants, and what-not, strolling leisurely down the carpeted queue path to board their Space Mountain rocket ship, a high-speed roller coaster-type ride through space the poor children will now never themselves have an opportunity to see...
    .


  6. #81

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    Re: Disney's Fast Pass is not free anymore !

    Here's my problem with this: Yes, in Walt's day, more money bought you more experiences. If you had money you could buy more tickets, but THEN you had to stand in line with everyone else. This isn't about how many rides you get to ride, it's about guest comfort. What's next, charging for monorail, benches, shade? Whereas Walt desired to exceed guest expectation Disney Inc. is bordering on exhibiting contempt for its guests.

  7. #82

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    Re: Disney's Fast Pass is not free anymore !

    Quote Originally Posted by Awe_inspired
    What's next, charging for monorail
    This already happens in Tokyo Disneyland directly, and Disneyland in CA indirectly as Disneyland admission is required to board Disneyland's monorail.

    Another example of Disney clearly creating second-class guests by forcing them to pay money. Greedy capitalists!!!

    "Who among you is wise and understanding? Let him show by his good behavior his deeds in the gentleness of wisdom." -- James 3:13

  8. #83

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    Re: Disney's Fast Pass is not free anymore !

    Walt also desired to build an observed experminetal community, let's not romanticize it. This isn't about human rights, it doesn't really matter, it just means that some hotel guests who are rich will benefit. One could argue that free FP is unfair because stupid people don't know it exists and don't use it. Is that unfair on stupid people? No. Of course I use 'stupid' with a large dose of salt! Also, this may be completely wrong, but regarding the increasing queues over time, isn't that because more people are visiting Disneylands over the years as well?

  9. #84

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    Quote Originally Posted by Awe_inspired View Post
    Here's my problem with this: Yes, in Walt's day, more money bought you more experiences. If you had money you could buy more tickets, but THEN you had to stand in line with everyone else. . .
    I thought I heard that Walt himself would wait in lines, at least when he wasn't with VIPs.

    I like the magical Jesus "last shall be first" vibe that the great equalizing lines promote.
    And I think the current Fast Pass system is a cool exception because it discriminates only by knowledge. It's not often I get rewarded just for knowing a lot about Disney, but Fastpass makes me almost cool when I take friends and relatives to the park.

    I'm a teacher and on at least half a dozen occasions I've heard students annoyed by teachers who cut in the front of food lines, and I've heard teachers praised for waiting their turn. Disneyland is supposed to be more kid-friendly than other places, but young kids haven't had the chance to become hand surgeons or Target employees, so financial disparities like having others go ahead of them might seem particularly unfair.

    Of course, outside the park at the hotels, we're closer to the real world, while the park should seem more magical. The Dream Suites at Disneyland and at WDW were exciting to all guests who were aware of them, because any guest had a shot at it.

    Off track: Last night I heard an actor say that he left Poland while it was communist. Now Poland is capitalistic while he works as a waiter at a restaurant in Los Angeles where all the waiters pool their tips. He imagined Karl Marx laughing at him.
    Last edited by jcruise86; 07-01-2009 at 07:51 AM.

  10. #85

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    Re: Disney's Fast Pass is not free anymore !

    Quote Originally Posted by fizzog
    but regarding the increasing queues over time, isn't that because more people are visiting Disneylands over the years as well?
    There is a small increase, but there's also been a decrease in the total sum of ride capacity over the years. Many top-tier attractions are not pulling the same amount of riders through per hour that they used to due to age, lack of maintenance, etc.

    It's also commonplace now to find at least a few attractions closed for refurbishment at any given point during the year, including the busy seasons. This is another departure from decades past. In the past, parks would do all they could to ensure the park was at its brightest & best as a whole for their showcase seasons of the year. Not so anymore. The last time this was seen, and probably will ever be seen, was Disneyland's 50th Anniversary. Without Matt Ouimet, that probably wouldn't have happened either.

    "Who among you is wise and understanding? Let him show by his good behavior his deeds in the gentleness of wisdom." -- James 3:13

  11. #86

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    Wink Re: Disney's Fast Pass is not free anymore !

    Quote Originally Posted by PeoplemoverMatt View Post
    But remember what I said in the very beginning - this already happens in the USA!! It happens with celebrities, and anyone else who calls up the DLR and promises to spend oodles of cash if Disney accommodates them this way or the other.
    Yes this does happen, I can attest to it. The last time we visited DL we were kicked out at 6:00 pm due to a 'private party'.

    Now speaking of the pay fast pass system; speaking from someone that geographically does not live near any of the parks, I see no issue with paying for a fast pass. When I get the chance to visit one of the park's I would like to have as full of an experience as I can. If I lived in the area and could visit the park every day, I wouldn't care as much as if I didn't get to it today, there is always the next time - but for me the next time could be 5+ years down the road, so if I want to pay a little extra for a bit more convenience then I am all for it.

    Does this make me selfish? Perhaps, but, I could also say that those of you that buy a annual pass and can go at anytime you wish to enjoy the park could also be construed as being selfish as well.

    After all, did I enjoy being booted out of the park early because of a private party? In all honesty I have to say no, but such is life and I didn't get all bent out of shape over it - I just wish I was part of the 'group' that did have the park all to myself.

    Just too bad that this will be offer to resort guests only. We will be in DLP in 19 more sleeps, but unfortunatly not be staying at a resort hotel. Since it is our first (and maybe only trip) to Paris, we opted to stay in Paris and travel back and forth to DLP as there are other things that we want to do and see as well and want to limited moving our 'home' as little as possible.
    Last edited by Mickey_Moose; 07-02-2009 at 09:52 AM.

  12. #87

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    Re: Disney's Fast Pass is not free anymore !

    Disneyland Paris has dropped the price of a VIP Pass from 100 Euros to 80 Euros for one day per person . This pass can only be found at the Disneyland Hotel .

  13. #88

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    Re: Disney's Fast Pass is not free anymore !

    Maybe they'll sell enough to avoid the next regularly-scheduled ticket price hike. It's not likely, but we can hope...
    Fight On! Beat the Cardinal!

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  14. #89

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    Re: Disney's Fast Pass is not free anymore !

    Is this pass only available to people that are staying at the hotels?
    Jeff Wayne







  15. #90

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    Re: Disney's Fast Pass is not free anymore !

    People Mover said this:

    The premise that half a park's population should be stuck in queues at any given moment is especially troubling to me, and makes absolutely no sense to theme park owners/managers. If their guests are stuck in line, they aren't riding rides. They are not eating in restaurants. They are not perusing gift shops. They're not doing what they came to the park to do, which is have fun. They're stuck in line. I don't know how it is for you guys, but by and large, guests don't like to be stuck in line. They want options to avoid the wait. Businesses by their very nature have an obligation to give the public what they want. Disney's doing exactly that here. It makes total sense.

    I was going to respond, but then I had read Baloo's response below and 100% agree with it. This is not just an assumption on what has happened because of FastPass, it is a fact. As Baloo pointed out, look at Pirates of the Caribbean with FastPass and now look at it since they removed it. Both sides of the que are now utilized, the wait is typically 25-30 max instead of the 50 minutes it used to be. That is a HUGE difference. Also, the quote PeopleMover said was that people were stuck in line...well, FastPass kept those of us who didn't/couldn't/opposed/etc. get one stand in line longer. Space Mountain and Big Thunder are also culprits of this. The waits are longer. So it defeats the point of what I quoted.


    Quote Originally Posted by Baloo View Post
    that really isn't the reason why some of us want the system removed or minimized. We know very well how it works and how to use it. The thing is that we see the disadvantages of having it on most if not all attractions.

    Fastpass has literally changed the theme park experience starting with the mentality with many in management.


    1) Why pay all the extra money on nicely themed queues when many people will just run through it when they get fastpass? lets just add lots of switchbacks and chains.


    2) In Anaheim another problem that fastpass created was to radically change the already built queues in many attractions. Attractions like Indiana Jones, Rogger rabbit cartoon spin, Star tours, Haunted Mansion, Space mountain, Thunder Mountain and Pirates of Carribbean which have or had fastpass had to be radically altered causing the standby lines to pour outside their already themed queues unto walkways.

    The standby lines for Pirates of Caribbean were so bad after they added fastpass that the line would go out into the walkway and up over the bridge. Half of the indoor queue and courtyard was empty while fastpass people ran through it. The same scenerio happened with haunted Mansion which later went to having it only for the Holidays. Even the Indy queue was altered to the point that the lines now spill out into adventureland even though it has a very long queue space

    One of the worst fastpass integrations happened when they added it to Roger Rabbit. They literally turned the outside courtyard into the standby queue while the elaborate and extremely detailed queue sat empty to allow fastpass guests. That change also caused another small attraction to slowly see it demise. The jolley trolley could no longer run because the queue wrapped around the plaza where the trolley tracks were. Eventually when the queue was re-arranged with a simple change and standby was again allowed to go through the queue and fill it up TDA just decided to slowly find excuses to eliminate the trolley for ever.


    No matter what people say Fastpass has altered the guest experience and has made the crowd control problems even worse. One of the biggest problems with fastpass is that it is not properly controlled. All tickets have time slots which should be enforced. People have gotten used to not obeying the time slots on the tickets and many show up later then they should.

    Now imagine the already scheduled guests on a fastpass line plus the delayed fatspass guests wanting to get on the attraction. All that does is make the standby line longer because the CM knows very well that if they do not clear out the fastpass line soon then the next group will begin to show up causing that line to fill up. Then there are the times when an attraction goes down and people are asked to come back. The CM's will most likely have to deal with all the guests that had fastpass from previous hours when the attraction went down.

    All that creates longer lines that spill out unto walkways filled with frustrated guests.


    Maybe Fastpass works well in a couple parks at WDW but the truth is that it does not work well in the Anaheim parks or parks like DHS, Disney studios Paris or even the Tokyo parks

    Baloo, thank you for plainly explaining the deficit of FastPass. I tend to go overboard in my thoughts on it, but then you bring it back to reality.

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