120 000 000 Euro loss for EuroDisney

[TimmyTimmyTimmy]

Semes EuroDisney had a bad half fiscal year. New paint and refurbs cost alot when something have been rotting away for years.
The resort recieved a few new rides in a brand new land in WDS. That should have shown improvement in numbers by now if the expansion was a succes. Such a huge loss can not be seen as anything else but as a disaster.
It is now proven that Toy Story Playland is a failure and that not only true Disneypark fans hate the expansion but also the normal public. A new land should not only boost WDS but also DLP. But no...

Correct me if I am wrong, I hope I am. I´d like to hear what the buzz is about at that european forums now that praised the Stinky dog and the other toys as the DLP saviours.

I wonder if Disney in France and Mr Gas realizes that they messed up again?

[Fultimate]

Semes EuroDisney had a bad half fiscal year. New paint and refurbs cost alot when something have been rotting away for years.
The resort recieved a few new rides in a brand new land in WDS. That should have shown improvement in numbers by now if the expansion was a succes. Such a huge loss can not be seen as anything else but as a disaster.
It is now proven that Toy Story Playland is a failure and that not only true Disneypark fans hate the expansion but also the normal public. A new land should not only boost WDS but also DLP. But no...

Correct me if I am wrong, I hope I am. I´d like to hear what the buzz is about at that european forums now that praised the Stinky dog and the other toys as the DLP saviours.

I wonder if Disney in France and Mr Gas realizes that they messed up again?

Well. Toy Story Playland opened in 2010. We are in 2012. 2 years later. Of course, TSPL rides are B-tickets (and clever fans don't consider them as E-tickets). Remember Ratatouille is coming in 2014, the near future is exciting.

The problem is absolutely not the attendance. The problems are the charges, the debts and other financial items.

[TimmyTimmyTimmy]

Well. Toy Story Playland opened in 2010. We are in 2012. 2 years later. Of course, TSPL rides are B-tickets (and clever fans don't consider them as E-tickets). Remember Ratatouille is coming in 2014, the near future is exciting.

The problem is absolutely not the attendance. The problems are the charges, the debts and other financial items.

The new rides came in 2010 and it takes some time for people to head out as the "news" spreads. New rides means that people outside France have to plan visits.
The sum of all actions made by EuroDisney is... BAD.
Attendance is THE key in operating a park. Attendance is what they work for, it´s why they built the place to start with. We know that debt is killing and that hotels are too plenty. But we now also know that people do not want ride the toys enough to help or do anything for the resort. A bump in numbers the first year is not a longterm solution. What the parks in France need is a longterm solution to a big... enormous problem.

Paris is one of the if not THE most visited places on earth. Even if they made some bad planning at start of the life of the resort it is remarkable that a company can be run the way it is run... year after year, decade after decade. Whatever anyone will say about it... they have failed. Terrible shows, no refurbs, bad taste when doing changes in the parks and the resort is not the way to save money.

As for the future... the french rats are forgotten and unknown enough to not be such a guest magnet as they hope. It will give the numbers a bump in some places but I can promise that the bump will not be enough.
I think a DCA type of makeover is the only thing that can save the face of DLP and that brand new ways of saving money is the chance for DLP to recover. They can´t wait another 20 years to repaint Disneyland just to "save" money again.

20 years of failure!

[TravisMT81]

so sad, they will never catch a break.

[KingEric]

I am just surprised they haven't done something more radical like, shutter most of the hotels to make the place profitable. Personally if I was in charge of DLPR I would close down all but two hotels, operate them at 100% occupancy pay down debt, open new attractions, expand DTD area and then slowly phase the hotels back into operation as business demands.

[Magic Lamp]

And they're still planning to build two more hotels, remember that. They're throwing themselves into even more debt.

I like your idea, KingEric. I think what they need to focus on is turning WDS into the park is should be, give it the DCA makeover it so deserves, maybe even squeeze in a Little Mermaid ride into FL at Parc Disneyland

[Riebi]

Sorry...but I never read a such unprofessional analysis...are we here just to write down some stuff that didn´t is even a bit near the reality?

They always have such a big loss at the first half. Of course they can sell some land and get some money back. But this fiscal year they haven´t done such things.

The problem is absolutely not the attendance. The problems are the charges, the debts and other financial items.

Exactly. They have a very high attendance. Also if you see other theme parks in the world. but the high debt was and is a problem of dlp. And it´s a problem because they built seven hotels in 1992. Shut them down? And then? They cost the same money. Cause they are there! They built them already so they have to pay for them.

And another point for the hotel shut down thing: ...they have always around 80 % of the rooms full of people. that´s for hotel business a wonderful mark. And they have shut down NPBC in the first years during winter. That was in times where the attendance was very low.

The effect of TSPL is - if that matter here - in 2011...that was last year...not now...the 2012 effect can be the 20th. But they started it not in the first fiscal period so you don´t see any effect of it by now.

Maybe it sometimes helps just to get first a look at the figures:
http://corporate.disneylandparis.com...ation-2012.pdf

[TimmyTimmyTimmy]

I think Disneyland has high attendance... but the studios park only looks crowded because it handles crowds a bad way.

The Toy Story effect should be long lasting. They market it as a new land and not just a ride.

We´ll see how great DLP does in 7-9 months due to the 20th celebrations... that they have marketed like they always do...

They built it all 20 years ago... we have herd the hotel story a 100 times... just fix the resort and get on with it! WDS should draw about 60 - 80 of what DLP, but it does not. There you have some huge losses that could have been avoided.

If they keep expanding with hotels... and don´t care to clean them like now. I promise you that in 20 years I´ll write.

40 years of failure!

No other company would live for 20 years and fail a hundred times ech year like this. 2 parks... 1 empty.

But I might be wrong... things might be just great... as always in DLP. Remember... in 3 - 4 years it will be time to repaint the entire park again. Time to cash up!

[wedmad]

Is it only me who is bored of some peoples focus on the negative?

also interesting how the same people where very negative about 'dreams' in the run up to it starting but after it opened, while every one else is impressed, nothing.... from said people.... just the same old 'TSPL is bad look the figures prove it'.......

the resorts problems, financal and other wise are complex, but are being worked on, how about the glass being half full for a change?

[TimmyTimmyTimmy]

Is it only me who is bored of some peoples focus on the negative?

also interesting how the same people where very negative about 'dreams' in the run up to it starting but after it opened, while every one else is impressed, nothing.... from said people.... just the same old 'TSPL is bad look the figures prove it'.......

the resorts problems, financal and other wise are complex, but are being worked on, how about the glass being half full for a change?

I´ll judge Dreams when I have seen it. From the videos it looks perfect... but who knows... a video is just a video.

I would like apologize for posting bad news about DLP. I´ll never do it again.

...wait! I take that back. More bad news about DLP to come soon! (provided by Gas & co)

[JiminyCricketFan]

There is no question that the original design of Paris Disneyland was horribly flawed. The overbuilt hotels have caused a huge mortgage on the whole future of the resort. Even the basic decision to locate a EuroDisney at Paris should've been questioned more thoroughly. The average temperature there is the coldest of all the Disney parks. Basically the resort is suffering from poor decisions made right from beginning. The only way to deal with their debt crisis is to reduce costs and increase income. With all of Europe seem to be going into recession, increasing income is going be very difficult. So reducing costs seems to be the best next move. It does seem logical to close a hotel or two if it were to save costs.

[Riebi]

There is no question that the original design of Paris Disneyland was horribly flawed. The overbuilt hotels have caused a huge mortgage on the whole future of the resort. Even the basic decision to locate a EuroDisney at Paris should've been questioned more thoroughly. The average temperature there is the coldest of all the Disney parks. Basically the resort is suffering from poor decisions made right from beginning. The only way to deal with their debt crisis is to reduce costs and increase income. With all of Europe seem to be going into recession, increasing income is going be very difficult. So reducing costs seems to be the best next move. It does seem logical to close a hotel or two if it were to save costs.

Yes and no. I think the main problem during the year 2002 - 2007 was that they reduce cost in everything. Also maintenance. Timmy says it right: The resort was in a horrible state for years. At some parts you can see this state also today (mainly at the resort part: look at the elephants of lake disney (Hotel New York side) or the reducing of flowers on the main avenue of the resort)

In 2001 the whole resort was on a very good way. But another poor decision was a poorly detailed studio park (Why a berm?? Why high class facades?? Why details?? - All the things that they needed so much in 1992 to get europeans in an american park) next to one of the most beautiful theme parks in the world. That was a totally wrong step. And no one of the european audience really liked WDS. Now they made much to get a real disney park. But not enough. It´s not the big California Adventure upgrade - it´s just some halfhearted steps to look what the europeans do now. I think they really need a master plan again!

For the hotel costs: The have a really really good hotel capacity. So they make money there now. Every other hotel would be happy with hotel capacity of 70 %, DLP has around 80-90 % every year. That´s why they think about new hotels. So closing hotels (they´ve done this in the first period around 1994 for the winter season because the figures of the hotels weren´t right) means not a reduction of costs. It just means that they have to pay more debt for empty hotels and guests that spent their night at the partner hotels.

So saving cost....where? Where can DLP save cost? They done nothing more for 6 years and the result was, that the guest satisfaction was not very disney. Maybe they can find some cost cutting like WDW do it...but I don´t think that anyone would be happy aaand I don´t think that this would regenerate more guests.

I think they should do something in the marketing dep. It´s really hard to see that DLP is focusing all their adverts to the spanish, the french and the UK market. The spanish economy isn´t really good at the moment. The french also. The UK seems to get very very slow a bit better....
Why not find guests from other countries in europe? Spain, UK and France isn´t europe. It´s just a small part and at the moment not the part with the strongest economy. For example: They do nothing in germany. It´s direct next to france and from my home town paris is just 2 hours with the tgv. You can read everywhere in the city "Visit Paris - just to hours away!" but why can´t anybody read "Visit Disneyland Paris!". They made no advertising in germany for years now. The germans even don´t know that DLP has two parks...And the germans are the one that spent money for short trips at the moment. Other european theme parks have another thinking: You can see Europa Park in every TV channel and even parks like efteling make big campains on television. Again: poor decisions.

But back to topic: For the report here...that normal for DLP it´s not "OH MY GOD!!!" They always have a big loss in the first half. And most time also in the second.

[jortlaban]

I think they should do something in the marketing dep. It´s really hard to see that DLP is focusing all their adverts to the spanish, the french and the UK market. The spanish economy isn´t really good at the moment. The french also. The UK seems to get very very slow a bit better....
Why not find guests from other countries in europe? Spain, UK and France isn´t europe. It´s just a small part and at the moment not the part with the strongest economy. For example: They do nothing in germany. It´s direct next to france and from my home town paris is just 2 hours with the tgv. You can read everywhere in the city "Visit Paris - just to hours away!" but why can´t anybody read "Visit Disneyland Paris!". They made no advertising in germany for years now. The germans even don´t know that DLP has two parks...And the germans are the one that spent money for short trips at the moment. Other european theme parks have another thinking: You can see Europa Park in every TV channel and even parks like efteling make big campains on television. Again: poor decisions.

But back to topic: For the report here...that normal for DLP it´s not "OH MY GOD!!!" They always have a big loss in the first half. And most time also in the second.

Very true... the current marketing campaign sucks.
But when you think about it, they've just finished some MAJOR refurbishments... those cost money, money that is not earned back over night.
So is it actual loss??? or just money they've spend to make the park "nice" again and that hasn't come back yet???

Also, as for Toy Story Playland.... when you look at the attendance levels there and the reactions from kids... this is an actual success... just because "die-hard-Disney Fans" and adults don't like the look, doesn't make it a failure.
And when you look at all the details that are put in there... I kinda like it too.

[TimmyTimmyTimmy]

Very true... the current marketing campaign sucks.
But when you think about it, they've just finished some MAJOR refurbishments... those cost money, money that is not earned back over night.
So is it actual loss??? or just money they've spend to make the park "nice" again and that hasn't come back yet???

Also, as for Toy Story Playland.... when you look at the attendance levels there and the reactions from kids... this is an actual success... just because "die-hard-Disney Fans" and adults don't like the look, doesn't make it a failure.
And when you look at all the details that are put in there... I kinda like it too.

I don´t think DLP can survive on reactions from kids. Kids smile and from happiness when they get an ice cream.

What details are you thinking about? It´s the very lack of details that many oppose. If it is not a failure, what is it then?. A succes?

My point on this is that DLP is loosing money... fast no matter expansions and other changes. The refurb costs. Probably alot more than it would if they had done something about it years ago.

The resort is a money sucking vortex. That has been proven for 20 very long and hard years. I find it very strange to say that anything going on in there is a succes. It´s like they have shut their eyes and ears for all this time.

...and now... they will build even more hotels.

What DLP needs is something that draws big numbers of guests for a long time to WDS for a long period. THAT is not what Toy Stoy has achived. From what I have heard WDS is still the most unpopular of all Disneyparks in the world. They are not even close to what is expected from a Disneypark that has been in operation for a few years.

I do hope it changes until the next time they reveal some numbers, but I have my doubts. It´s easy to say "here he goes being negative again". But what do you think a loss of over 120 000 000 EUROS means?

Disaster ...AGAIN!

[Baloo]

TSPland was mainly built to help extend guest park hours and to fill a gap of llimited attraction in the park. The land was not built to save the studio park or Disneyland Paris for all it's problems. People might. Not like the addition but it has accomplished what it was meant to do, increase time guest spend in park which might translate to more food sales. There is a reason they are considering more hotels and that is ecause they increase revenue. The problem with the resort is the high debt which only will be solved once guest feel they have enough to keep them busy for at least two days. Sometimes those long queues, and minor expansions do just that.