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  1. #16

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    Re: Disneyland Paris in Paris -- a Geographic Mistake by Disney?

    The Walt Disney Company has never been the majority shareholder. The SCA structure gives them the control.
    I misspoke - they are the largest shareholder. I see 39.78% of the company owned by Disney, 10% by a Saudi Prince, and >50% owned by public shareholders. I'm still not understanding then how this in turn removes them of any fault as to the condition of Disney Studios Paris (were they expecting the individual shareholders to cough up the money for it?) or the fact that they overbuilt the park's hotels, or any number of other issues that have arisen causing them to consistently lose money even as the attendance has increased.

  2. #17

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    Re: Disneyland Paris in Paris -- a Geographic Mistake by Disney?

    Quote Originally Posted by godsonsafari View Post


    I misspoke - they are the largest shareholder. I see 39.78% of the company owned by Disney, 10% by a Saudi Prince, and >50% owned by public shareholders. I'm still not understanding then how this in turn removes them of any fault as to the condition of Disney Studios Paris (were they expecting the individual shareholders to cough up the money for it?) or the fact that they overbuilt the park's hotels, or any number of other issues that have arisen causing them to consistently lose money even as the attendance has increased.
    Because there are contracts and regulations which Euro Disney SCA must follow. Euro Disney SCA was created and then The Walt Disney Company dumped the new over-built Resort and all of its debt in their laps and told them "Good luck." That has only changed recently with The Walt Disney Company buying Euro Disney SCA's debt from the various debt holders who had to approve any and all spending.

  3. #18

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    Re: Disneyland Paris in Paris -- a Geographic Mistake by Disney?

    Because there are contracts and regulations which Euro Disney SCA must follow. Euro Disney SCA was created and then The Walt Disney Company dumped the new over-built Resort and all of its debt in their laps and told them "Good luck." That has only changed recently with The Walt Disney Company buying Euro Disney SCA's debt from the various debt holders who had to approve any and all spending.


    Let's clarify here:

    Walt Disney Corporation decides to start Euro Disney SCA. The reason for this is not because they had to meet regulations in France. It was so that Disney could raise additional investor money to construct the park without having to spend it themselves while alternately promising French authorities when getting the resort approved that they would essentially be building Euro Disney World. Investors never brought in the sort of money Disney expected them to (apparently thinking that investors would simply pour money into anything called "Disney"), and they became even more skittish when the park initially had major attendance woes. Disney ends up reaching out to a Saudi Prince to basically bail them out, and they (using the bare minimum of their own money) build Disney Studios Paris, which turns out to basically flop and pull a hilariously low number of attendees.

    Obviously Disney didn't plan out any aspects particularly well from the start. They may not own >50% of the stock, but they did found the company and retain controlling interest. If something is to blame for the losses at the Disneyland Paris Resort, it is not the geographical location.

  4. #19

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    Re: Disneyland Paris in Paris -- a Geographic Mistake by Disney?

    Euro Disney SCA was not created at the start, but later on and very much as part of the negotiations with the French government to ensure more local ownership. The capital to build the Resort was acquired through loans made on the credit worthiness of The Walt Disney Company.

    The bare minimum was spent on the Second Gate because Euro Disney SCA had to get the money, not The Walt Disney Company. The debt situation put spending decisions more under the control of the banks that held the debt than it did Euro Disney SCA. If The Walt Disney Company had tried to give money to Euro Disney SCA to build a second gate, it just would have been taken by the banks to pay off the debts. That is why the requirements on the third gate were renegotiated and The Walt Disney Company just recently bought all of the debt of Euro Disney SCA. The structure was not sustainable. You can be required to spend more when you're also being required to spend less, what happened with the second gate.

  5. #20

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    Re: Disneyland Paris in Paris -- a Geographic Mistake by Disney?

    Sell the Newport Bay hotel to Four Seasons, Sheraton or Hilton, who've partnered with them at WDW.

  6. #21

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    Re: Disneyland Paris in Paris -- a Geographic Mistake by Disney?

    Europeans are used to the weather, winter happens here and it's fun to have a trip to Disneyland in the snow, especialy at Christmas time.

    Sure the weather does have an impact on the park, rides have to close due to ice and there are maintenance issues and attendace is low during January, February and March but that is when DLP carries out most of it's ride maintenace. DLP is also the only theme park in Europe to open all year around. Universal's Port Aventura / Universal Mediterranea now call just PortAventura in sunny Spain does not open in winter only during last March to January.

    The age old question is should it have been built in northern France? WDC got the best deal from the French Goverment. Souther France was looked at but the location they found was not suitable after test digs were done. Spain were interested but in the 1980s the countries poor transport links ruled the country out at the time.

    DLP must be doing somthing right as it has the highest attendace of any theme park in Europe. IMO the major mistake made was building all the hotels at once. They should have been built as demand required them. And they would not be planing on building the new hotels if the demand is not there.

  7. #22

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    Re: Disneyland Paris in Paris -- a Geographic Mistake by Disney?

    Quote Originally Posted by CaliforniaAdventurer View Post
    Sell the Newport Bay hotel to Four Seasons, Sheraton or Hilton, who've partnered with them at WDW.
    I've thought that for quite a while now. I'd even go as far to include the Seqoia and one of the values in with it as well.

    Sure it'd be a little embarrassing, but if it reduces the fiscal burden then why not?


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  8. #23

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    Re: Disneyland Paris in Paris -- a Geographic Mistake by Disney?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hathaway Browne View Post
    I've thought that for quite a while now. I'd even go as far to include the Seqoia and one of the values in with it as well.

    Sure it'd be a little embarrassing, but if it reduces the fiscal burden then why not?
    I don't think such measures are needed now that the debt is all owned by The Walt Disney Company. You're not going to have different banks deciding what can be spent on what and that expansion is unnecessary.

  9. #24

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    Re: Disneyland Paris in Paris -- a Geographic Mistake by Disney?

    When are they contractually obligated to build a third park? Because the problem wasn't all those hotel rooms la Walt Disney World.

    It was opening Disney World quantity hotel rooms for Disneyland (Calif.) quantity theme park.

    Half-Day park WDS didn't change much, it's DCA 1.0, a place for Passholders who've explored every inch of Disneyland Park.

    If the hotels aren't going away, perhaps it's logical it's time to remodel them and fill them with park goers at 3 full sized all-day parks.

  10. #25

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    Re: Disneyland Paris in Paris -- a Geographic Mistake by Disney?

    The third park was delayed not too long ago.

  11. #26

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    Re: Disneyland Paris in Paris -- a Geographic Mistake by Disney?

    I know that but I suspect DLR and DLP's third gates will probably be designed in a blue sky phase following the opening of Shanghai.

  12. #27

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    Re: Disneyland Paris in Paris -- a Geographic Mistake by Disney?

    If I remember right they didn't have to build a new one until '20 or '21 at the earliest. Probably will be on the table once Shanghai's design phase wraps up. Although I guess they might have already had some discussions in case they had to build a third gate a few years ago.


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  13. #28

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    Re: Disneyland Paris in Paris -- a Geographic Mistake by Disney?

    Quote Originally Posted by CaliforniaAdventurer View Post
    When are they contractually obligated to build a third park? Because the problem wasn't all those hotel rooms la Walt Disney World.

    It was opening Disney World quantity hotel rooms for Disneyland (Calif.) quantity theme park.

    Half-Day park WDS didn't change much, it's DCA 1.0, a place for Passholders who've explored every inch of Disneyland Park.

    If the hotels aren't going away, perhaps it's logical it's time to remodel them and fill them with park goers at 3 full sized all-day parks.
    The deadline recently moved from 2017 to 2030. And I agree with you, the best way to tackle the hotel problem would have been to provide (at least) 2 all-day parks. But thanks to the contractual obligations the incomplete Walt Disney Studios had to be built, and I do believe they've done the best they could at the time with their limited funds. Unfortunatly it simply wasn't enough, and all they could deliver was a park that had potential. (not going to discuss what happed to that potential...but it's still there)

    Although the resort would benefit from 2/3 all-day parks, nowadays it is not necessary to have them to fill up the hotels. DLP hotels have a higher occupationrate than the WDW hotels. And there are actually 2 more in the planning, that's gotta say something. Euro Disney S.C.A. has no fund to spill on useless hotels. And as been said before, DLP did suffer from a great deal of setbacks, but it's geographical location isn't (or wasn't) one of them.
    Determined to become an Imagineer. If you have the time please check out my home Imagineering project on my DeviantArt page: http://vdburg.deviantart.com/gallery/38207573

  14. #29

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    Re: Disneyland Paris in Paris -- a Geographic Mistake by Disney?

    The DLP hotels don't really feel "Disney"; while living in Paris, I looked into them and considered staying overnight but we were underwhelmed compared to what I've seen in the US.

  15. #30

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    Re: Disneyland Paris in Paris -- a Geographic Mistake by Disney?

    I read in Eisners autobiography how he was advised to open too many hotels, so those would be already there when they were needed when second themepark opened. This way the guests wouldn't have the nuisance of them building a dozen of hotels.
    Also they thought it would be cheaper to build them all at once.

    Geographically it's fine though. France is the first ranked international tourist destination. 79.5 Million tourists visited in 2011 (Number two, the US, had 62.3 million. Number four, Spain, had 56.7 million). France has been the most visited country in the world for decades now, harsh winters and all.


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