Do Europeans Actually Think of the W.D.S.P. Concept as Being Legitimate?

[pussnboots]

Originally Posted by jml338

As a French guy who went to Disney MGM Studio before WDS was build, I can tell you that I was really disappointed by the 2nd gate in Paris. I remember being so excited to see the animators working as well as visiting part of a real movie studio in Orlando (they had just made an episode of ER there). It was so magic for me.

So, when I learn that they were going to build the WDS, I could not have been more thrilled. Plus, it was around that time that Tarzan was made almost exclusively in France. Things seemed to move in the right direction... until they decided to save money and closed their real "studio" in Paris (Eisner's decision). I was literally heartbroken. The whole concept of the second park was not holding up anymore for me. I knew that it could not work out. Without the main attraction, how could this be a success ? Well, it was not.

Maybe I am completely wrong with this but it seemed to me that this flaw was the downfall of the park. Not only because the public was disappointed (the rides were not that good and everything looked so cheap including the merchandise.... ) but also because the initial intention behind it disappeared. There was some kind of vacuum creatively. It seemed like the Imagineers did not know what to do with it anymore. It was not only because of money but also because it could not work no matter what. The main reason for the 2nd gate existence was not there. The Tram tour became ridiculous (except the Canyon part), Armageddon was out of place and I will not even talk about the "animation building"... a total shame... The stunt show and perhaps the TV studio were the only thing that were "in" the theme. Of course, now that I have been to Disney-MGM studio again, I have quite a different feeling since a lot has disappeared

Again, maybe I am wrong. But this the way I fell it.

I completely agree. Always have. If as much as an infomercial studio was to be built into the WDS, the place would have its raison d'etre back. But a fake studio is just pointless. Basically what you're left with is a Magic Kingdom that shows you the backside of everything (and not just the backside of water). Now what good is that.

[TDLFAN]

Originally Posted by PragmaticIdealist

I'm a California boy, so my perspective may be somewhat different from the average guest to Walt Disney Studios Paris. But, does the fake studio with the ersatz Hollywood actually appeal to Europeans?

You mean... the same way D/MGM (oops! DHS) appeals to Americans and many other nationalities?

To me, the fundamental concept of Walt Disney Studios Paris is fatally flawed because a fake studio tour will always seem like a tourist trap.

Isn't that what MGM really is? Come to think of it.. what WDW in general is?

I can't imagine anyone seeing the second gate in France as being particularly edifying or worthwhile, as long as the original concept remains the same.

They don't care. Check the queue wait times for the Crush Coaster. Besides... when EuroDisneyland opened in 1992, 95% of the CMs there had never stepped foot in a Disney park, nor had any clue what "Disney" was supposed to be like in relation to show, quality, cleanliness..what have you..
Therefore... the lack of enforcement of smoking and conduct policy, serving alcohol inside a "DL" park..(a major sin in my book), filthy facilities, and stupid announcements that include "et vouz les enfants!" as if the brats cared much..

So to answer your original headline question with my witty style.. the response is YES! Most europeans are finding Disney for the first time in their continent, therefore, YES, whatever they do at DLRP would actually be thought of as "Disney" in their book. And that includes WDSP as well.

[CaliforniaAdventurer]

Everything in Paris is cultural, historic, educational. Disneyland by contrast is new, fake and fun.

Walt Disney Studios doesn't need to be a monument to French cinema in a historic working movie studio with an educational purpose to bring you into the process of moviemaking. Would be cool if it did, but I bet they'd be really happy with a full day park of randomly collected attractions that are movie-based but which offered E- and D- ticket level excitement.

[DisneyMickey]

The topic of Disneyland Resort Paris is very interesting because of how so many things went wrong and how it is a living testimony of the optimism that Disney had in the early 90's. Walt Disney Studios only extends the complicated history line of the Euro Disney property.

[Acetone]

I find the studio concept to be laughable. Instead of taking you to fantastic worlds and exciting locales these studio parks take you to uhm, a fake movie set. It's boring, cheap, and devoid of any imagination. It's an excuse to cheap out on the Disney experience and build cheap facades and buildings with little to no detail, and you'll see the exposed beams that hold up those cheap cardboard looking facades on top of it.

You'll find that the best ride at MGM is the one that actually tries to be a fleshed out Disney experience, and not a "HOT SET", Tower of Terror. I think you'll find the same thing at Disney Studios Paris once their Tower of Terror opens.

And it just shows you how much Disney cheaps out on parks when they finance them. DCA, Disney Studios Paris, Hong Kong Disneyland (and only partially!). It's sad that the company Walt Disney founded can't even hold up to an International company when it comes to creating that Disney magic.

[soundtracker]

Originally Posted by pussnboots

I completely agree. Always have. If as much as an infomercial studio was to be built into the WDS, the place would have its raison d'etre back. But a fake studio is just pointless. Basically what you're left with is a Magic Kingdom that shows you the backside of everything (and not just the backside of water). Now what good is that?

I agree with Puss that a working studio facility would be ideal, but I don't think having a fake studio is necessarily a problem, as long as the Imagineers are willing to make a feature of it.

I think I've put this argument before, but if we're all quite happy wandering around a fake Wild West, or a fake Caribbean island, why not a fake Hollywood studio? Where Disney went wrong was in trying so terribly hard to convince us all that the WDS are as real as the real thing. The park should be a charicature of a real working studio - everything should be larger than life, and play up to people's expectations of what a movie studio should be like. Giving them the real thing is just going to disappoint them, and that's exactly what's been happening since day one.

Nathan and Fizzy have got it right - Toon Studio is a step in the right direction. There's no way on God's green Earth that it could be mistaken for a real working studio, but that doesn't matter because it's good fun, and the sort of thing you could only find in a Disney park. (And that, after all, is what Disney parks are all about, n'est-ce pas?)

Or, to look at it another way, the attractions in the Disneyland Park are (more or less) extensions of the environment in which they are found. They are part of a greater whole. The attractions in the Studios Park are the opposite - they are stand alone set pieces, unrelated to each other, and (more importantly) unrelated to their surroundings. There is no STORY! That, I feel, is the crux of the problem. The attractions have no surrounding context, and this is what Disney really needs to fix. When the park starts telling a story, then we will all have something to cheer about.

[pussnboots]

Originally Posted by soundtracker

I agree with Puss that a working studio facility would be ideal, but I don't think having a fake studio is necessarily a problem, as long as the Imagineers are willing to make a feature of it.

I think I've put this argument before, but if we're all quite happy wandering around a fake Wild West, or a fake Caribbean island, why not a fake Hollywood studio? Where Disney went wrong was in trying so terribly hard to convince us all that the WDS are as real as the real thing. The park should be a charicature of a real working studio - everything should be larger than life, and play up to people's expectations of what a movie studio should be like. Giving them the real thing is just going to disappoint them, and that's exactly what's been happening since day one.

Nathan and Fizzy have got it right - Toon Studio is a step in the right direction. There's no way on God's green Earth that it could be mistaken for a real working studio, but that doesn't matter because it's good fun, and the sort of thing you could only find in a Disney park. (And that, after all, is what Disney parks are all about, n'est-ce pas?)

Or, to look at it another way, the attractions in the Disneyland Park are (more or less) extensions of the environment in which they are found. They are part of a greater whole. The attractions in the Studios Park are the opposite - they are stand alone set pieces, unrelated to each other, and (more importantly) unrelated to their surroundings. There is no STORY! That, I feel, is the crux of the problem. The attractions have no surrounding context, and this is what Disney really needs to fix. When the park starts telling a story, then we will all have something to cheer about.

You make a good point. Not to bring this film into yet another discussion, but I for one would be quite happy strolling around the studio complex as imagined by Robert Zemeckis in Who Framed Roger Rabbit. I suppose a larger-than-life fake movie studio could have worked indeed, if it had a proper and consistent concept and back story. And yes, the other leash on life the park could have is, again, the real, working studios thing. The Disney-MGM Studios were never as beloved as the MK and Epcot, but back when it had actual animators in it working on the latest Disney features, everyone respected the place. Just that fact made it cool. Without it, again, you're left with an inferior, plated metal-filled MK park.

But where we disagree is the Toon Studio place. In my opinion, DLRP's Imagineers have committed the worst crime of all here -- randomness. It's such a shame. Sure, Crush looks like fun (I've yet to try that one). Sure, the Cars queue is nice. Sure, that blue rock work looks competently crafted. But does it come together? No.

But I've nagged and nagged and nagged about this before and I'm boring even myself. Go on, don't mind me.

[nathan detroit]

Was WDS@DLP ever planned to house the French animation department? I hadn't heard that and I doubt whether that was the main motivation behind opening a Studios second gate.

Ah! Roger Rabbit! Don't get me started!

IMO, WDS is at least better than it has ever been before (hardly high praise!) and Toon Studios may be random but fits together under a pretty wide umbrella. To my mind, an easier theme to carry through with the park is total randomness which is probably as close to what Joe Q Publc think a real studio looks like. As I've said before, I would love to see people walking around in suits of armour and top hat and tails alike ala the opening scenes of Looney Tunes Back in Action - the depiction of a movie studio in that film is a marvellously rendered cliche.

And as for an earlier comment that the 'brats' don't care about being addressed in announcements - I personally find it needlessly bitter and pedantic. Clearly made by a person who neither has children or likes them.

[pussnboots]

Originally Posted by nathan detroit

Was WDS@DLP ever planned to house the French animation department? I hadn't heard that and I doubt whether that was the main motivation behind opening a Studios second gate.

Ah! Roger Rabbit! Don't get me started!

IMO, WDS is at least better than it has ever been before (hardly high praise!) and Toon Studios may be random but fits together under a pretty wide umbrella. To my mind, an easier theme to carry through with the park is total randomness which is probably as close to what Joe Q Publc think a real studio looks like. As I've said before, I would love to see people walking around in suits of armour and top hat and tails alike ala the opening scenes of Looney Tunes Back in Action - the depiction of a movie studio in that film is a marvellously rendered cliche.

And as for an earlier comment that the 'brats' don't care about being addressed in announcements - I personally find it needlessly bitter and pedantic. Clearly made by a person who neither has children or likes them.

I was wondering about that opening scene in Looney Tunes Back in Action... So for everyone else who is, I found this wonderful clip (marvelously dubbed in Hungarian or something):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=http:...e=user&search=

[PragmaticIdealist]

Originally Posted by soundtracker

I think I've put this argument before, but if we're all quite happy wandering around a fake Wild West, or a fake Caribbean island, why not a fake Hollywood studio?

Well, the difference is that movie studios make "fake" Wild Wests and "fake" Caribbean islands. The studios aren't fake, themselves, though.

[fizzog]

I think Hollywood and Studios is as much of a theme as Wild West or Caribbean especially in France where Hollywood isn't right around the bend (much moreso than Florida). It just kidded itself a little. It'll be easy to 'fix' WDS, maybe even easier than DCA simply because it's a blank canvas more or less.

[nathan detroit]

I recommend sourcing LT Back in Action in English - a hugely entertaining and under-rated movie (am I allowed to say that on a Disney forum?!)

[fizzog]

You certainly are because I agree, it was great fun. Not that me saying it somehow allows you to

[soundtracker]

Originally Posted by nathan detroit

I recommend sourcing LT Back in Action in English - a hugely entertaining and under-rated movie (am I allowed to say that on a Disney forum?!)

Marvin The Martian gets exterminated by a pair of Peter Cushing movie Daleks! Pretty damn cool, by any standards.

[CaliforniaAdventurer]

Originally Posted by fizzog

I think Hollywood and Studios is as much of a theme as Wild West or Caribbean especially in France where Hollywood isn't right around the bend (much moreso than Florida). It just kidded itself a little. It'll be easy to 'fix' WDS, maybe even easier than DCA simply because it's a blank canvas more or less.

Hmmm good points