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  1. #1

    • "I Break Things"
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    Should Disneyland copy Knott's?

    I was thinking about this the other day. Here on Micechat we poke fun and joke about other parks that try to copy various aspects of Disneyland. However, when Disneyland decides to potentially copy something the response is usually "well it's a good idea and Disney will do it better". It's a frustrating bias, but worth noting specifically for this instance. SunWheel was based off of Coney Island... not bad... turned out nice... then Al noted that John L. wanted to rip out Maliboomer and toss in a Parachute Drop. Currently that idea is being shelved, but most on here never even brought it up. The reality is Walter Knott "borrowed" the idea from Coney, and now Disney wanted to "borrow" it from him... But when you consider Maliboomer itself was a cheesy rip then things begin to make sense.

    So the question arises, should Disneyland borrow and improve upon the ideas, concepts, and ride systems of other parks... or should it simply drive it's own course and be original?
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  2. #2

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    • Skeevy Ray Vaughan
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    Re: Should Disneyland copy Knott's?

    Only thing I think Disneyland should look at is Knotts' (ever-shrinking) ghost town and take elements of that and bring it to Frontierland. I could care less about the other stuff but their ghost town feel authentic. Oh, take the fried chicken & boysenberry punch too. LOL!

  3. #3

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    Re: Should Disneyland copy Knott's?

    Absolutely.

    Look at what Disney did with the ordinary flume ride: Splash Mountain. As much as
    I love the Log Ride at Knott's, it would be hard to argue Splash Mountain not being
    better.

    Grizzly Peak, though I feel is a bit underwhelming for Disney is still leagues beyond Bigfoot Rapids.

    Especially in seeing what Cedar Fair is doing to Knott's, I would love to see Disney
    take a few of the original ideas and run with them...especially if they begin by bringing back Knott's Berry Tales.

  4. #4

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    Re: Should Disneyland copy Knott's?

    Take Splash Mountain.

    When Disney thought a water ride would be appropriate at Disneyland, what they had to work with from what existed at other parks was a simple log ride, mostly or all outdoors, that guests rode to go down the drop and get drenched, and little else. Or if there was theming, it usually had something to do with the west and loggers chopping wood, a la Knott's. Simple movements, gives riders something to look at, but hardly realistic or impressive.

    So folks including Tony Baxter kept plussing and building upon it, designed a mountain for the logs to wind around with rockwork and briar patches and landscaping, a whole show building populated with the audio animatronics recast from America Sings and more from the Uncle Remus stories, with character and music and movement and lighting, and you have Splash Mountain. For me, the big drop is only icing on the cake.

    That's what Disney should do with previously used attractions and ideas all the time: plus 'em to death until the experience is so unique and amazing it can be found nowhere else in the world.


  5. #5

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    Re: Should Disneyland copy Knott's?

    Quote Originally Posted by 2DieFR View Post
    Take Splash Mountain.

    When Disney thought a water ride would be appropriate at Disneyland, what they had to work with from what existed at other parks was a simple log ride, mostly or all outdoors, that guests rode to go down the drop and get drenched, and little else. Or if there was theming, it usually had something to do with the west and loggers chopping wood, a la Knott's. Simple movements, gives riders something to look at, but hardly realistic or impressive.

    So folks including Tony Baxter kept plussing and building upon it, designed a mountain for the logs to wind around with rockwork and briar patches and landscaping, a whole show building populated with the audio animatronics recast from America Sings and more from the Uncle Remus stories, with character and music and movement and lighting, and you have Splash Mountain. For me, the big drop is only icing on the cake.

    That's what Disney should do with previously used attractions and ideas all the time. Plus 'em to death until the experience is so unique and amazing it can be found nowhere else in the world.
    But then you look at things like Maliboomer which is an underwhelming Supreme Scream. Or GRR which, for all it's aesthetic beauty, really doesn't soak you as MM or Knott's always has! I am fine with Disney taking a concept and "running with it" but when the concept is little more then a carbon copy I begin to ask "why bother".
    "Happiness is a Low Water Level"


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  6. #6

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    Re: Should Disneyland copy Knott's?

    Quote Originally Posted by techskip View Post
    But then you look at things like Maliboomer which is an underwhelming Supreme Scream. Or GRR which, for all it's aesthetic beauty, really doesn't soak you as MM or Knott's always has! I am fine with Disney taking a concept and "running with it" but when the concept is little more then a carbon copy I begin to ask "why bother".
    Hence a big chunk of the criticism aimed at DCA. Agreed.


  7. #7

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    Re: Should Disneyland copy Knott's?

    This is certainly not the first time Disney copied Knott's. In the early 80s Disney copied Knott's in the most dramatic way ever: It got rid of their ticket books in favor of an all-inclusive day pass.

  8. #8

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    Re: Should Disneyland copy Knott's?

    nope disney needs to come up with new ideas and new attractions.

  9. #9

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    Re: Should Disneyland copy Knott's?

    Quote Originally Posted by DisneyIPresume View Post
    This is certainly not the first time Disney copied Knott's. In the early 80s Disney copied Knott's in the most dramatic way ever: It got rid of their ticket books in favor of an all-inclusive day pass.
    But that was more or less an industry trend, not a specific ride or ride system.
    "Happiness is a Low Water Level"


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  10. #10

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    Re: Should Disneyland copy Knott's?

    Quote Originally Posted by techskip View Post
    So the question arises,
    1. should Disneyland borrow and improve upon the ideas, concepts, and ride systems of other parks... or
    2. should it simply drive it's own course and be original?
    1. No.
    2. Yes.

    I wish all questions were so easy.
    "Here You Leave the World of California Today and Enter the World of, um, er, California Today."

  11. #11

    • Minion
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    Re: Should Disneyland copy Knott's?

    Quote Originally Posted by DisneyIPresume View Post
    This is certainly not the first time Disney copied Knott's. In the early 80s Disney copied Knott's in the most dramatic way ever: It got rid of their ticket books in favor of an all-inclusive day pass.
    Yup. Disney also borrowed and expanded on the "front of the line" idea with Fastpass.

    Quote Originally Posted by techskip View Post
    But that was more or less an industry trend, not a specific ride or ride system.
    It is your thread of course, tecky, but I will point out that the all-inclusive day pass and Fastpass radically changed the way guests visit Disneyland.


  12. #12

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    Re: Should Disneyland copy Knott's?

    Quote Originally Posted by sediment View Post
    1. No.
    2. Yes.

    I wish all questions were so easy.
    It isn't so quick and clean I'm afraid. If you look around, the theme park industry has done some pretty friggin amazing things. It's getting more and more challenging to come up with something that won't at least partially borrow from or look like something else.


  13. #13

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    Re: Should Disneyland copy Knott's?

    Quote Originally Posted by 2DieFR View Post
    It is your thread of course, tecky, but I will point out that the all-inclusive day pass and Fastpass radically changed the way guests visit Disneyland.
    Which is entirely true, but in doing this they merely followed a trend. They did not specifically point at another ride and say "we should build that"... ala Splash vs Log Ride or Maliboomer vs Supreme Scream. The nice thing is that Disney doesn't charge for it's Fastpass, but the downside is that it is mass production so you do not have the flexibility of Universal Studios.
    "Happiness is a Low Water Level"


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  14. #14

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    Re: Should Disneyland copy Knott's?

    While superficially, Splash Mountain may seem like it's copying elements of Knott's flume ride, the underlying technology is firmly rooted in Disney's past.

    Arrow Dynamics' research into and experimentation with the technology behind these rides led not only to the first log flumes at Six Flags' parks, but to it's a small world, Pirates, Knott's log ride and, much later, Splash Mountain.

    It's interesting to watch around here as people call for more attractions that are like those from the park's earliest days -- particularly with respect to their technology -- as much of that technology was developed out of house by Arrow in the first place.

    Disney has, in reality, designed few ride systems. The Tower of Terror rides, the EMV system, and the Peoplemover spring to mind; but most of the biggies were developed with involvement by Arrow.
    Last edited by Madison; 07-25-2008 at 01:26 PM.

  15. #15

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    Re: Should Disneyland copy Knott's?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rex Dopey24 View Post
    nope disney needs to come up with new ideas and new attractions.

    I agree. Disney has some great imaginers. Look at Toy Story Mania. We do not need to copy any other parks. Although I do agree with Ghost Town thing I read in the post. And also the Fried Chicken and boysenberry punch. LOL. So good.
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