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  1. #31

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    Re: Uncle Bob's Disneyland Resort Expansion Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Bob View Post
    There would be too many issues with fire seperations, core drilling for plumbing, structural concerns, for it to be practical to put another use like hotel rooms on top of the parking garage, if that's what you're saying. It would have had to been designed to be this way, or it likely wouldn't be feasible.
    Maybe they could put up a facade to make it look like a real building? i would think that something would have to be done, lest we have a view of the parking structure right above that wing of DTD...

  2. #32

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    Re: Uncle Bob's Disneyland Resort Expansion Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by tllsknywhtboy View Post
    Maybe they could put up a facade to make it look like a real building? i would think that something would have to be done, lest we have a view of the parking structure right above that wing of DTD...
    Oh, I agree, the something definitely needs to be done in this regard. I actually did take this account in my plan. I mentioned that I would build some buildings in front of it to shield most of it from view. Though I haven't really laid out the details for most of these areas, I do have a rough idea of how I would accomplish this.

    I would create an access road that would run along the front of M&F behind these new buildings, both to set the buildings forward, thus blocking more of the parking structure, but also to provide service access to the buildings. I would probably make these buildings about 100 feet deep and two to three stories in height. This would be deep enough for most commercial uses, but not too deep to take up too much space. It would also block most of the structure, there would be some of it exposed above, but if these buildings were detailed and at human scale, you’d really hardly notice the relatively simple parking structure in the background. And would only be able to see it all from a vantage point pretty far south in DTD, from a distance you really wouldn’t pay much attention to it. Part of the reason why my design also transitions into an Art Deco feel in this northern DTD corridor is that it would blend ok with the modern parking structure behind it.
    The Mickey audience is not made up of people; it has no racial, national, political, religious or social differences or affiliations; the Mickey audience is made up of parts of people, of that deathless, precious, ageless, absolutely primitive remnant of something in every world-wracked human being which makes us play with children’s toys and laugh without self-consciousness at silly things, and sing in bathtubs, and dream and believe that our babies are uniquely beautiful. You know…the Mickey in us.
    -Walt Disney

  3. #33

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    Re: Uncle Bob's Disneyland Resort Expansion Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Bob View Post
    Oh, I agree, the something definitely needs to be done in this regard. I actually did take this account in my plan. I mentioned that I would build some buildings in front of it to shield most of it from view. Though I haven't really laid out the details for most of these areas, I do have a rough idea of how I would accomplish this.

    I would create an access road that would run along the front of M&F behind these new buildings, both to set the buildings forward, thus blocking more of the parking structure, but also to provide service access to the buildings. I would probably make these buildings about 100 feet deep and two to three stories in height. This would be deep enough for most commercial uses, but not too deep to take up too much space. It would also block most of the structure, there would be some of it exposed above, but if these buildings were detailed and at human scale, you’d really hardly notice the relatively simple parking structure in the background. And would only be able to see it all from a vantage point pretty far south in DTD, from a distance you really wouldn’t pay much attention to it. Part of the reason why my design also transitions into an Art Deco feel in this northern DTD corridor is that it would blend ok with the modern parking structure behind it.
    That and they could detail the front of the M&F structure to be art deco...

  4. #34

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    Re: Uncle Bob's Disneyland Resort Expansion Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by Dustysage View Post
    What a wonderful and well thought out plan!
    Thanks! That means a lot coming from someone with your knowledge of Disney.
    The Mickey audience is not made up of people; it has no racial, national, political, religious or social differences or affiliations; the Mickey audience is made up of parts of people, of that deathless, precious, ageless, absolutely primitive remnant of something in every world-wracked human being which makes us play with children’s toys and laugh without self-consciousness at silly things, and sing in bathtubs, and dream and believe that our babies are uniquely beautiful. You know…the Mickey in us.
    -Walt Disney

  5. #35

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    Re: Uncle Bob's Disneyland Resort Expansion Plan

    Great ideas, Uncle Bob. I'd be happy if even half of these ideas are incorporated to the resort. Looking forward to hearing your ideas for the 3rd gate. I hope WDI is reading your posts and stealing your plans!


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    Re: Uncle Bob's Disneyland Resort Expansion Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by scrappydawg View Post
    Great ideas, Uncle Bob. I'd be happy if even half of these ideas are incorporated to the resort. Looking forward to hearing your ideas for the 3rd gate. I hope WDI is reading your posts and stealing your plans!
    Well I have to admit I stole about half my ideas from them.
    The Mickey audience is not made up of people; it has no racial, national, political, religious or social differences or affiliations; the Mickey audience is made up of parts of people, of that deathless, precious, ageless, absolutely primitive remnant of something in every world-wracked human being which makes us play with children’s toys and laugh without self-consciousness at silly things, and sing in bathtubs, and dream and believe that our babies are uniquely beautiful. You know…the Mickey in us.
    -Walt Disney

  7. #37

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    Re: Uncle Bob's Disneyland Resort Expansion Plan

    UncleBob, your imense efforts on this post are appreciated however I cannot say that I agree with your perspective of the ideal concepts of how the resort should be expanded.

    WHY, WHY , WHY WHY, WHY WHY WHY should we turn the beloved, sacred, pure, DL that we hold SO VERY near and dear in our heart of hearts, into another ::shudder:: Disney World?

    The transportation system there and how it stops at every hotel is a complete pain in pooper!! The walk from Grand Californian.. not that bad! The conveniences that we have in life are over bearing to the point that we are becoming lazier and lazier.

    My largest disagreement with your concept was the Hotels. Disneyland is personal and heartfelt as opposed to DW in which you must boat, tram, bus everywhere you go. The All star resorts are NOT of Disney quality and give the resort a rather tacky appeal.

    Lastly, I don't recall Disney WORLD being Walt's dream. I recall in the early stages of development according to scale models, concept art I've seen, DW was planned to be a 'world of the future.' Kind of like a real world tomorrowland but not so much with the future-ized technology but with the greater functionality and being peaceful unified existance. Walt obviously didn't make it that far into carrying everything out.. and eventually it did become "another DL" as some came to call it and it was built up from there.
    How many times have the following two been said: Don't put words into Walt's mouth, and We don't want another DW!
    Please don't take any of this in a harsh tone, it's just that we all seem to be in agreemen that one of the many things that we love about the Disney Parks is how different they all are and have different things to offer. So why then do we want another DW?

    I really do NOT want to turn this into a DL vs. DW debate because everyone can have their own opinion and like whatever they want to like however this is strictly concerning the "evolutionary step" that you speak of.

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    Re: Uncle Bob's Disneyland Resort Expansion Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by WendyBird View Post
    UncleBob, your imense efforts on this post are appreciated however I cannot say that I agree with your perspective of the ideal concepts of how the resort should be expanded.

    WHY, WHY , WHY WHY, WHY WHY WHY should we turn the beloved, sacred, pure, DL that we hold SO VERY near and dear in our heart of hearts, into another ::shudder:: Disney World?

    The transportation system there and how it stops at every hotel is a complete pain in pooper!! The walk from Grand Californian.. not that bad! The conveniences that we have in life are over bearing to the point that we are becoming lazier and lazier.

    My largest disagreement with your concept was the Hotels. Disneyland is personal and heartfelt as opposed to DW in which you must boat, tram, bus everywhere you go. The All star resorts are NOT of Disney quality and give the resort a rather tacky appeal.

    Lastly, I don't recall Disney WORLD being Walt's dream. I recall in the early stages of development according to scale models, concept art I've seen, DW was planned to be a 'world of the future.' Kind of like a real world tomorrowland but not so much with the future-ized technology but with the greater functionality and being peaceful unified existance. Walt obviously didn't make it that far into carrying everything out.. and eventually it did become "another DL" as some came to call it and it was built up from there.
    How many times have the following two been said: Don't put words into Walt's mouth, and We don't want another DW!
    Please don't take any of this in a harsh tone, it's just that we all seem to be in agreemen that one of the many things that we love about the Disney Parks is how different they all are and have different things to offer. So why then do we want another DW?

    I really do NOT want to turn this into a DL vs. DW debate because everyone can have their own opinion and like whatever they want to like however this is strictly concerning the "evolutionary step" that you speak of.
    WendyBird,

    I can fully understand your perspective and respect it, but do disagree somewhat. I assumed I would get more of this type of response to this post than I actually have so far. First, DLR will never be like WDW. It will become more like it in some ways, really taking the most successful parts, but DLR will always have its own, extremely different identity, which I would never want to take away. I understand Walt’s grand visions for what EPCOT was to become, yet I think if he were here today, he’d love the idea of using modern planning concepts in the context of expanding DL into a resort. I agree that there is much about what WDW has become that he probably wouldn’t like, but that doesn’t mean he wouldn’t support expanding DL.

    In my plan DLR would not have any budget hotels like WDW, which I haven’t experienced personally, but do think look a little tacky. The cheapest would be in WDW’s mid-range level. I also have designed it such that walking from every hotel is not only possible, but it will be very nice and welcoming to do so. DLR would have a very different feel than the very spread out WDW. I don’t think I’m putting words in Walt’s mouth, which was never my intention.
    The Mickey audience is not made up of people; it has no racial, national, political, religious or social differences or affiliations; the Mickey audience is made up of parts of people, of that deathless, precious, ageless, absolutely primitive remnant of something in every world-wracked human being which makes us play with children’s toys and laugh without self-consciousness at silly things, and sing in bathtubs, and dream and believe that our babies are uniquely beautiful. You know…the Mickey in us.
    -Walt Disney

  9. #39

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    Re: Uncle Bob's Disneyland Resort Expansion Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by WendyBird View Post

    My largest disagreement with your concept was the Hotels. Disneyland is personal and heartfelt as opposed to DW in which you must boat, tram, bus everywhere you go. The All star resorts are NOT of Disney quality and give the resort a rather tacky appeal.
    Ugh, tell me about it. Between the three I think All-Star Music is probably the least tacky-looking. The most tacky-looking though has to go to All-Star Movies. Too kiddy for my taste. Plus the room I stayed at in Movie stank of sweaty laundry and the bathroom looked like one of those bathroom you would find in a struggling college kid's apartment.

    Quote Originally Posted by WendyBird View Post
    Lastly, I don't recall Disney WORLD being Walt's dream. I recall in the early stages of development according to scale models, concept art I've seen, DW was planned to be a 'world of the future.' Kind of like a real world tomorrowland but not so much with the future-ized technology but with the greater functionality and being peaceful unified existance. Walt obviously didn't make it that far into carrying everything out.. and eventually it did become "another DL" as some came to call it and it was built up from there.
    Actually the reason that Walt Disney World was created was because of Walt's fatal mistake that he made when developing Disneyland...he overadvertised it (with his Disneyland TV show) while the place was under construction resulting in an overdose of businesses such as third-rate and hotels, restaraunts, and other generic entertainment facilities buying off all the land around DL before the park opened resulting in Disneyland being surrounded by a tacky over urbanized atmosphere. Walt intended to make Walt Disney World a more private and not to mention larger atmosphere so he could make the Disneyland in FL the one he more envisioned for Anaheim (and he avoided any mention of the project until after he bought as much land as possible). I recently saw a video which showed Walt's intentions for making WDW into a full fledged private vacation resort. The future world concept was in it too but to be truly honest, as great and neat as Walt's future world idea was a lot of the ideas Walt had for future world would not have realistically and technogically worked today anyway. And of course we all know about how the second WDW park only used the name of Walt's initial dream concept and nothing more.

    As for Disneyland becoming another WDW, I do agree that the corporates need to be really careful with this. Many people from the west coast visit WDW because of the unique large private atmosphere it has and I'm sure that they dont want WDW to lose more customers. DL is too cramped anyway so there's really little chance of it becoming another WDW in this lifetime unless they really do buy more land. I can see potential for a water park (and a need for more on property hotels) but not a third gate! Given the whole deal with California Adventure. I dont think they should even consider the thought until after they see results from the park makeover. I'm not surprised though. The corporates have to many mistakes to deal with. Considering how Disneyland Paris first opened as a huge flopped, you've got to wonder what the heck they were thinking when they decided to go forth with a second park which only followed the same fate. Or what the heck they were thinking when they decided to make Hong Kong Disneyland a mini Disneyland with the intention of building a second park. They can forget it, a second park at Hong Kong is just unimaginable at this point!
    Last edited by toonaspie; 08-04-2008 at 08:25 AM.
    Toonaspie: I have Asperger's. I like cartoons. Toonaspie!

  10. #40

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    Re: Uncle Bob's Disneyland Resort Expansion Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by toonaspie View Post
    Ugh, tell me about it. Between the three I think All-Star Music is probably the least tacky-looking. The most tacky-looking though has to go to All-Star Movies. Too kiddy for my taste. Plus the room I stayed at in Movie stank of sweaty laundry and the bathroom looked like one of those bathroom you would find in a struggling college kid's apartment.



    Actually the reason that Walt Disney World was created was because of Walt's fatal mistake that he made when developing Disneyland...he overadvertised it (with his Disneyland TV show) while the place was under construction resulting in an overdose of businesses such as third-rate and hotels, restaraunts, and other generic entertainment facilities buying off all the land around DL before the park opened resulting in Disneyland being surrounded by a tacky over urbanized atmosphere. Walt intended to make Walt Disney World a more private and not to mention larger atmosphere so he could make the Disneyland in FL the one he more envisioned for Anaheim (and he avoided any mention of the project until after he bought as much land as possible). I recently saw a video which showed Walt's intentions for making WDW into a full fledged private vacation resort. The future world concept was in it too but to be truly honest, as great and neat as Walt's future world idea was a lot of the ideas Walt had for future world would not have realistically and technogically worked today anyway. And of course we all know about how the second WDW park only used the name of Walt's initial dream concept and nothing more.

    As for Disneyland becoming another WDW, I do agree that the corporates need to be really careful with this. Many people from the west coast visit WDW because of the unique large private atmosphere it has and I'm sure that they dont want WDW to lose more customers. DL is too cramped anyway so there's really little chance of it becoming another WDW in this lifetime unless they really do buy more land. I can see potential for a water park (and a need for more on property hotels) but not a third gate! Given the whole deal with California Adventure. I dont think they should even consider the thought until after they see results from the park makeover. I'm not surprised though. The corporates have to many mistakes to deal with. Considering how Disneyland Paris first opened as a huge flopped, you've got to wonder what the heck they were thinking when they decided to go forth with a second park which only followed the same fate. Or what the heck they were thinking when they decided to make Hong Kong Disneyland a mini Disneyland with the intention of building a second park. They can forget it, a second park at Hong Kong is just unimaginable at this point!
    I believe the resort has enormous growth potential, without having some of the negatives of WDW, and without cannibalizing its business. I agree with you that the intent of WDW was clearly to build a resort just a much as to build experimental communities. That was something that fascinated Walt, but technologically and as a business model, clearly had some flaws. I just don’t see any of your examples as being valid with regard to the development of new parks at DLR. Each situation is totally different and you have to understand the specifics. Just saying management has messed up in the past, so Disney should just stop trying to grow its business is ridiculous. I agree, they should wait to see the results of the DCA makeover, but ultimately, I would be surprised if the third gate doesn’t happen eventually. There is still plenty of market for Disney, and the problems with DCA are many, and to believe that the struggles at DCA are because there are not sufficient customers is false. It’s just not a very good park by Disney’s standards, and the results reflect that.

    In the case of Paris there were many other problems, and probably that resort was not yet ready for a second gate. However, DL is still busier than I’m sure Disney would like it to be, so there are a lot of customers that just need to be spread out better. From a business perspective, I think Disney would like 3 gates with about 10-12 million each in annual guests. If they could reach this, it would fill the entire resort, and be most efficient and thereby most profitable. I really don’t see why any management team wouldn’t aim to achieve this completely realistic goal.

    Take this ring analogy for example. The way I see it is they have DL, a beautifully cut diamond, and DCA is an uncut Diamond. Right now, they’re in a cheap setting and one of the diamonds isn’t even polished. This is not good. By expanding the resort, they’ll finish the un-cut diamond, add another diamond, and set them in a beautiful setting to make a complete ring, worth much more then the raw diamonds. I really don’t see why DL fans would be opposed to this. More success for DLR means more maintenance for DL, and justifies more investment. I don’t see how this would be bad for fans. I guess some people are so frustrated with Dis they assume anything new will be bad.
    The Mickey audience is not made up of people; it has no racial, national, political, religious or social differences or affiliations; the Mickey audience is made up of parts of people, of that deathless, precious, ageless, absolutely primitive remnant of something in every world-wracked human being which makes us play with children’s toys and laugh without self-consciousness at silly things, and sing in bathtubs, and dream and believe that our babies are uniquely beautiful. You know…the Mickey in us.
    -Walt Disney

  11. #41

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    Re: Uncle Bob's Disneyland Resort Expansion Plan

    In the case of Paris there were many other problems, and probably that resort was not yet ready for a second gate.
    While we're on the DLP topic, Disney has an agreement with the people in Paris that they would build DLP, then another park by another date (WDS), and they still have another park to build as stated by the agreement (which the date is approaching in 5-10 years).

    However, DL is still busier than I’m sure Disney would like it to be, so there are a lot of customers that just need to be spread out better. From a business perspective, I think Disney would like 3 gates with about 10-12 million each in annual guests. If they could reach this, it would fill the entire resort, and be most efficient and thereby most profitable. I really don’t see why any management team wouldn’t aim to achieve this completely realistic goal.

    Take this ring analogy for example. The way I see it is they have DL, a beautifully cut diamond, and DCA is an uncut Diamond. Right now, they’re in a cheap setting and one of the diamonds isn’t even polished. This is not good. By expanding the resort, they’ll finish the un-cut diamond, add another diamond, and set them in a beautiful setting to make a complete ring, worth much more then the raw diamonds. I really don’t see why DL fans would be opposed to this. More success for DLR means more maintenance for DL, and justifies more investment. I don’t see how this would be bad for fans. I guess some people are so frustrated with Dis they assume anything new will be bad.
    I agree with you Uncle Bob. Having more parks would definitely spread people out among the parks (but only if they're the same quality) and would bring better thing about for DL, and the DLR in general. I would be surprised too if they did not build another park eventually. In fact, I could actually see them wanting to find land for a fourth park someday (on either side of the convention center?)

  12. #42

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    Re: Uncle Bob's Disneyland Resort Expansion Plan

    Plus in Paris they were disrespectful to the culture in some ways and provided way too many hotels for a park of that size, with limited other reasons to stay there, and competing with staying in Paris, where there are many nice hotels. (This is not exactly on property vs. cheap motel in Anaheim or Orlando.) Then once they finally started to solve some of these issues and turn the park around, they built a second gate stinker, just to meet those promises you mentioned.

    In regard to a fourth gate I think it could be possible. I don't think finding enough land would be easy, and I think three might be enough, but if three are doing well I think they'd consider a fourth for sure. I do think that three plus a water park and all the other entertainment could keep you busy at least five days, and I do think a lot of people traveling from far away would also be going to other Cali tourist attractions, so three might be enough for DLR. Obviously, at some point they'll start competing with each other rather than bringing more guests to the resort, and people will end up skipping one gate if there are too many for the time they have. In some ways WDW may be pushing this limit with all the stuff there, most people only have so many days of vacation. The up side of that is if they miss things, there's a reason to come back, so it's hard to say what's best, and WDW's numbers have been fairly good lately acording to last quarter's report. (Europeans are likely helping.) In some ways I think a variety just increases the chances that there's a must see for every member of the family too, so that's also important for marketing. (And a reason why the removal of PI @ WDW is questionable.)
    The Mickey audience is not made up of people; it has no racial, national, political, religious or social differences or affiliations; the Mickey audience is made up of parts of people, of that deathless, precious, ageless, absolutely primitive remnant of something in every world-wracked human being which makes us play with children’s toys and laugh without self-consciousness at silly things, and sing in bathtubs, and dream and believe that our babies are uniquely beautiful. You know…the Mickey in us.
    -Walt Disney

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    Re: Uncle Bob's Disneyland Resort Expansion Plan

    I need to re-read everything in here carefully but I thought I comment on the first thing that made me go "no no no, you can't..."

    None of the hotels that you propose either new or otherwise are called: DISNEYLAND HOTEL. This I believe is a big mistake. I know the towers that are currently there don't cut it but the resort needs to have Disneyland Hotel be the most amazing hotel resort in the entire resort.

    that is all.

    I'll be back to comment on other stuff.


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    Re: Uncle Bob's Disneyland Resort Expansion Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by Coheteboy View Post
    I need to re-read everything in here carefully but I thought I comment on the first thing that made me go "no no no, you can't..."

    None of the hotels that you propose either new or otherwise are called: DISNEYLAND HOTEL. This I believe is a big mistake. I know the towers that are currently there don't cut it but the resort needs to have Disneyland Hotel be the most amazing hotel resort in the entire resort.

    that is all.

    I'll be back to comment on other stuff.
    The hotel on the existing DLH site will still be called the DLH, look at the pic, I just didn't list any of the existing hotels in the legend, sorry if that was confusing, but reading the whole plan will clear that up.
    The Mickey audience is not made up of people; it has no racial, national, political, religious or social differences or affiliations; the Mickey audience is made up of parts of people, of that deathless, precious, ageless, absolutely primitive remnant of something in every world-wracked human being which makes us play with children’s toys and laugh without self-consciousness at silly things, and sing in bathtubs, and dream and believe that our babies are uniquely beautiful. You know…the Mickey in us.
    -Walt Disney

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    Re: Uncle Bob's Disneyland Resort Expansion Plan

    I like your ideas uncle bob but this would cost disney 10 billion dollars

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