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  1. #46

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    Re: Court of Angels to become another Shop Add-On in NOS

    Quote Originally Posted by Walt Jr. View Post
    If anyone truly cares about something in Disneyland,
    Unless you can somehow change how the 14 million people that come to Disneyland should act and think, then you can't change anything.

  2. #47

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    Re: Court of Angels to become another Shop Add-On in NOS

    Another problem with putting the same merch in too many locations is that at some point it becomes a disinsentive to enter more stores at all, if you just expect to see the same things as other locations. Then you end up not really having guests see more products. I don't fault Dis for wanting to maximize merch sales, but I'm just not sure that many of the things they've done really do this, and at what cost is it to the overall park experience.
    The Mickey audience is not made up of people; it has no racial, national, political, religious or social differences or affiliations; the Mickey audience is made up of parts of people, of that deathless, precious, ageless, absolutely primitive remnant of something in every world-wracked human being which makes us play with children’s toys and laugh without self-consciousness at silly things, and sing in bathtubs, and dream and believe that our babies are uniquely beautiful. You know…the Mickey in us.
    -Walt Disney

  3. #48

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    Re: Court of Angels to become another Shop Add-On in NOS

    Quote Originally Posted by MrLiver View Post
    Unless you can somehow change how the 14 million people that come to Disneyland should act and think, then you can't change anything.
    I don't understand... Are you saying that every person that comes into Disneyland is thinking about getting more Christmas ornaments?

    Disney is getting ridiculous. I can't see how throwing more of the same into a deserted corner of the park will boost the profit margins.

    Tisk, tisk, tisk. Shame on you Disney.

  4. #49

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    Re: Court of Angels to become another Shop Add-On in NOS

    ****THIS JUST IN****

    ---TDA has just announced that they will be filling the Rivers of America with cement to make way for a strip mall, 2 restaurant (only a small $5000/per year membership fee to eat there), and a new theater with a movie highlighting all of the best shopping and dining amenities around the resort.---

    Hasn't happened yet, but maybe for the 60th... When the next big merch push will begin.

    Oh Disneyland, you used to be so pure, so innocent...

  5. #50

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    Re: Court of Angels to become another Shop Add-On in NOS

    Quote Originally Posted by dlandjimmy View Post
    ****THIS JUST IN****

    ---TDA has just announced that they will be filling the Rivers of America with cement to make way for a strip mall, 2 restaurant (only a small $5000/per year membership fee to eat there), and a new theater with a movie highlighting all of the best shopping and dining amenities around the resort.---

    Hasn't happened yet, but maybe for the 60th... When the next big merch push will begin.

    Oh Disneyland, you used to be so pure, so innocent...
    I think I just threw up a little...

  6. #51

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    Re: Court of Angels to become another Shop Add-On in NOS

    As much a I disagree with Liver on a plethora of issues, he's made an EXCELLENT point.

    Disneyland won't change until they see a dramatic hit to their bottom line. That means turning in your APs, going to the park once or maybe twice a year like we used to, not purchasing every pin that comes out, and going across the street to eat come meal time (we used to eat at the Jolly Roger).

    That, friends, isn't going to happen. There isn't enough will power or determination among the "fans." Disneyland is a drug that must be ingested by some on a nearly daily basis. Our own gluttonous need to satiate our Disneyland appetites spells doom for the park as it once was. Sadly, you must get used to it.

    Letters? E-mails? City Hall complaints? RUBBISH!! The only documents Disney cares about have presidents' portraits on them.

    We have met the enemy. And he is US.

  7. #52

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    Re: Court of Angels to become another Shop Add-On in NOS

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve DeGaetano View Post
    As much a I disagree with Liver on a plethora of issues, he's made an EXCELLENT point.

    Disneyland won't change until they see a dramatic hit to their bottom line. That means turning in your APs, going to the park once or maybe twice a year like we used to, not purchasing every pin that comes out, and going across the street to eat come meal time (we used to eat at the Jolly Roger).

    That, friends, isn't going to happen. There isn't enough will power or determination among the "fans." Disneyland is a drug that must be ingested by some on a nearly daily basis. Our own gluttonous need to satiate our Disneyland appetites spells doom for the park as it once was. Sadly, you must get used to it.

    Letters? E-mails? City Hall complaints? RUBBISH!! The only documents Disney cares about have presidents' portraits on them.

    We have met the enemy. And he is US.

    WOW. That is harsh.

  8. #53

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    Re: Court of Angels to become another Shop Add-On in NOS

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve DeGaetano View Post
    As much a I disagree with Liver on a plethora of issues, he's made an EXCELLENT point.

    Disneyland won't change until they see a dramatic hit to their bottom line. That means turning in your APs, going to the park once or maybe twice a year like we used to, not purchasing every pin that comes out, and going across the street to eat come meal time (we used to eat at the Jolly Roger).

    That, friends, isn't going to happen. There isn't enough will power or determination among the "fans." Disneyland is a drug that must be ingested by some on a nearly daily basis. Our own gluttonous need to satiate our Disneyland appetites spells doom for the park as it once was. Sadly, you must get used to it.

    Letters? E-mails? City Hall complaints? RUBBISH!! The only documents Disney cares about have presidents' portraits on them.

    We have met the enemy. And he is US.
    That's it in a nutshell!
    Matthew

  9. #54

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    Re: Court of Angels to become another Shop Add-On in NOS

    I think we should make a few different T-shirts. Each one will have a picture of a beloved area, ride or show on the front of it. On the back it will say (ex.) "RIP Court of Angels. From 19-- to 20--. What's next Disney? What else will you sacrifice for an extra buck?"

    And we can have like 3 versions that we all wear when we go to the park. Then, management will see it and other guests will ask about it to raise awareness.

    Probably will never happen, but just a thought.

  10. #55

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    Re: Court of Angels to become another Shop Add-On in NOS

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve DeGaetano View Post
    As much a I disagree with Liver on a plethora of issues, he's made an EXCELLENT point.

    Disneyland won't change until they see a dramatic hit to their bottom line. That means turning in your APs, going to the park once or maybe twice a year like we used to, not purchasing every pin that comes out, and going across the street to eat come meal time (we used to eat at the Jolly Roger).

    That, friends, isn't going to happen. There isn't enough will power or determination among the "fans." Disneyland is a drug that must be ingested by some on a nearly daily basis. Our own gluttonous need to satiate our Disneyland appetites spells doom for the park as it once was. Sadly, you must get used to it.

    Letters? E-mails? City Hall complaints? RUBBISH!! The only documents Disney cares about have presidents' portraits on them.

    We have met the enemy. And he is US.
    I still disagree with Mr. Liver. On occasion, there have been other ways of getting through to the corporate people at the top besides the almighty bottom line. As I recall, Pressler, Harris, and finally Eisener weren't let go simply because they weren't able to pull in more cash for Disney. The perception that they were bad managers crept into the press, Roy Disney got involved, a website sprang up, and suddenly these people were gone. (Not necessarily in that order.) One of the reasons Eisener disappeared was because he "didn't play well with others," i.e. Pixar.

    And while Pixar was cranking out blockbuster movies, Eisener and his friends were cranking out Lion King VIII and Bambi: The Revenge of Thumper. If Iger and Grier become recognized for their corporate greed and poor decisions that are eroding the character of the park...and the right writer for the LA Times gets a hold of it, you can bet some serious pressure is going to fall on the rocket scientist who is behind the Dream Suite, Watch Shop, and now the Court of Angels. Common denominator behind all three of those decisions?

    Greed.

    Oh....and um... stupidity.


    Once the voice of outrage becomes louder than we who hang out on the Disney Boards all day, someone will start feeling some heat. A couple more unfortunate accidents because the maintenance schedule is cut, more paint coming off all parts of the park, more trash on the ground, scores of unchanged burnt out light bulbs....if these things happen again along with the colossal stupidity of IASW and the other asinine changes described above, the fit is really going to hit the shan. Bottom line or no.
    Last edited by Mac Daddy; 08-02-2008 at 07:03 AM.

  11. #56

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    Re: Court of Angels to become another Shop Add-On in NOS

    Quote Originally Posted by Mac Daddy View Post
    On occasion, there have been other ways of getting through to the corporate people at the top besides the almighty bottom line. As I recall, Pressler, Harris, and finally Eisener weren't let go simply because they weren't able to pull in more cash for Disney. The perception that they were bad managers crept into the press, Roy Disney got involved, a website sprang up, and suddenly these people were gone....
    Since Eisner, Pressler et al left, exactly what has occured at the park that's possitive? Aside from a brief Camelot-like period under the direction of the Once and Future King, Ouimet, we've seen nothing but the destuction of theme and diversity.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mac Daddy View Post
    Once the voice of outrage becomes louder than we who hang out on the Disney Boards all day, someone will start feeling some heat. A couple more unfortunate accidents because the maintenance schedule is cut, more paint coming off all parts of the park, more trash on the ground, scores of unchanged burnt out light bulbs....if these things happen again along with the colossal stupidity of IASW and the other asinine changes described above, the fit is really going to hit the shan. Bottom line or no.
    So, we have to wait until the Park turns into a pit and/or deathtrap again, before it gets slightly better? Two steps backward, one step forward?

    I certainly hope that isn't Disney's management strategy. But sadly you may be right.

  12. #57

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    Re: Court of Angels to become another Shop Add-On in NOS

    Quote Originally Posted by MrLiver View Post
    Unless you can somehow change how the 14 million people that come to Disneyland should act and think, then you can't change anything.
    Quote Originally Posted by Steve DeGaetano View Post
    ...Disneyland won't change until they see a dramatic hit to their bottom line. That means turning in your APs, going to the park once or maybe twice a year like we used to, not purchasing every pin that comes out, and going across the street to eat come meal time (we used to eat at the Jolly Roger)....
    Quote Originally Posted by Steve DeGaetano View Post
    Since Eisner, Pressler et al left, exactly what has occured at the park that's possitive? Aside from a brief Camelot-like period under the direction of the Once and Future King, Ouimet, we've seen nothing but the destuction of theme and diversity. ...
    All three quotes are sadly, but exactly, right.
    "With the acquisition of Marvel and now of Lucasfilm,
    Disney may have finally found the grail. You don't need
    imagination or art. All you need is a brand."

    - Neil Gabler


  13. #58

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    Re: Court of Angels to become another Shop Add-On in NOS

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve DeGaetano View Post
    Since Eisner, Pressler et al left, exactly what has occured at the park that's possitive? Aside from a brief Camelot-like period under the direction of the Once and Future King, Ouimet, we've seen nothing but the destuction of theme and diversity.

    So, we have to wait until the Park turns into a pit and/or deathtrap again, before it gets slightly better? Two steps backward, one step forward?

    I certainly hope that isn't Disney's management strategy. But sadly you may be right.
    Since the current system of "publicly" owned companies involved increasing the "quarterly Earnings" with any means neccessary. For high paid executives who may only last a few "Quarters" in there positions, long term thinking is not always a priority. This becomes apparent when we look at the decisions made in Florida and in Anaheim over the past number of years which proves that theming and preservation of the "Show" is not as important as selling more trinkets and generic DisneyCo. merchandise. If I was a suit sitting in a office with a nice MBA degree hanging on my wall for DisneyCo. I would probably think the same. Especially since as it has been brought up before.
    if the Annual Passes are a set price (low mind you) and you are having lots of repeat visitors entering the turnstyle without paying, you need to generate alternative revenue streams via, higher food prices and more Merchandising opportunities. Again, Disneyland is a high priced exclusive mall for the rich, you can either pay for a day to shop or pay a yearly "Membership" ala Costco or AmazonPrime for the opportunity to enter the store as many times as you would like to spend more money without the door charge.

    Truly, unless DisneyLand becomes listed as a Historic LandMark or sold off and run by a 3rd party (i.e TokyoDL and Orient Land Holdings Co.) , we are seeing the "mall"ification of the park occurring under our noses. Even if every single AP were to cancel, I don't think the train can be stopped.
    When you just look at running business on the immediate "Quarter" (3months) results, this is what happens. It occurs in every "Public" Company and I believe it is why innovation is many times hampered since true research and development takes lots of time and many "Quarters" without showing profit which equals not happy shareholders, no bonus pay etc. Hence Companies take the easy route to generate that much needed revenue. Based on this current system it is just how it works.

    Of course there are always smaller companies or individuals (mostly non public with funding) that still will take risks. DisneyCo, is sadly not that company anymore although how much longer Pixar will be able to withstand the pressure from big Brother is anyones guess.

    Anyways, we see it in the parks, loss of theme, loss of respect of the "Show", we see it at the "R&D" facilities with the deactivation of the Animatronics laboratories and shops at Imagineering, general increase in outsourcing, the relying of more on digital projection based attractions and more cost effective options. Of course from a business "Quarterly" perspective this all just makes good sense, but this does not necessarily make good show and does not introduce entire generations to the magic of the parks beyond being a cool shopping mall of which they are a dime a dozen these days. (i.e "The Grove", "GardenWalk" etc)

  14. #59

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    Re: Court of Angels to become another Shop Add-On in NOS

    It seems to me that if you want to get their attention and save your precious Courtyard of Angels (and I do believe it needs to be saved) than you have to push the power button. To me, that's John Lasseter. Maybe I'm wrong, but this guys knows how to make a buck for Disney and he loves the place. So flood HIS office with your letters.
    A picture is worth a thousand words. I've seen hundreds of photos of engagements, anniversaries, kisses, and new babies in the courtyards of angels. Send your pictures to Lasseter and anyone else.
    I am too much of a cynic to believe that this could save anything, but I guess you can't know if you don't try. My fellow Micechatter Cynics are right. Its about your dollar not your commitment. And it isn't even about OUR dollars (they've got our money) its about the dollars of those once in a lifetime visitors. They out number us and they out spend us.
    That doesn't mean give up, just means.....sigh.
    Bummer.
    To All Who Come to this Happy Place.... Welcome! Disneyland is Your Land!

  15. #60

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    Re: Court of Angels to become another Shop Add-On in NOS

    Quote Originally Posted by MrLiver View Post
    Unless you can somehow change how the 14 million people that come to Disneyland should act and think, then you can't change anything.
    Quote Originally Posted by Steve DeGaetano View Post
    As much a I disagree with Liver on a plethora of issues, he's made an EXCELLENT point.

    Disneyland won't change until they see a dramatic hit to their bottom line. That means turning in your APs, going to the park once or maybe twice a year like we used to, not purchasing every pin that comes out, and going across the street to eat come meal time (we used to eat at the Jolly Roger).

    That, friends, isn't going to happen. There isn't enough will power or determination among the "fans." Disneyland is a drug that must be ingested by some on a nearly daily basis. Our own gluttonous need to satiate our Disneyland appetites spells doom for the park as it once was. Sadly, you must get used to it.

    Letters? E-mails? City Hall complaints? RUBBISH!! The only documents Disney cares about have presidents' portraits on them.

    We have met the enemy. And he is US.
    You think it won't help and so you don't send letters, ect. Then you just hand over the park to Disney. What little you do helps you take a stand.

    If someone really cared, they would set up a protest like the VMK protest.

    Protest COA, ISAW, and Timepieces at the same time. Then you could change the views.
    Friend walks into line of The Many Adventures of Winnie the Pooh-
    "Come on, Let's go see Country Bear- .......Oh."
    -August 1st 2010

    And this elevator traverls directly to The Twilight Zone The Gift Shop!
    -August 2nd 2010

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