^ I agree. It's not like F! takes up the whole night.
Actually, it pretty much does. From dusk 'til almost closing, the west side is pretty much a crowd nightmare. If it's not actually during the show, it's between shows when the huge Fantasmic! crowds are trying to trade places with the huge Fireworks show crowds from Main Street.
Essentially, the west side of the park is just not pleasant after dark.
You say it sucks; that's your opinion. Thousands of others LOVE Fantasmic and some even plan trips just to see it. Majority rules.
So, we'll just have to let those "thousands" that love the show fight it out with those "thousands" who want it gone. There is no obvious majority that you can claim. Those who plan their trips because of a water show can now plan their trips to see WOC.
Originally Posted by stevo505
It only takes away from the atmosphere for about an hour of the night. The rest goes back to calm and quiet NOS. Just go on some rides during that time if you hate it so much. You can always enjoy the atmosphere of the area in Fantasmic's off-season.
It pretty much takes away from the atmosphere of the west side of the park from dusk until almost closing. Between shows, there's the crowd nightmare of Fantasmic! crowds trying to get to Main Street for the Fireworks while the Fireworks crowds are trying to get to the Fantasmic! viewing area. All the while that the general guests are just trying to get to the various attractions (you know, what DIsneyland was based on) on that side of the park.
All the while that the general guests are just trying to get to the various attractions (you know, what DIsneyland was based on) on that side of the park.
Sorry to bust your bubble, but I'd bet big money that the majority of guests aren't trying to ride anything on that side during Fantasmic or the fireworks. And really, that's nothing but a help to the ones who decide to ride anyway since line times are probably short.
1. If WOC is as successful as they expect, then shutting Fantasmic! will result in the Fantasmic Crowds being totally eliminated from Disneyland.
2. The Golden Horseshoe was a show that totally fit in the Frontierland theme and in no way negatively impacted the Frontierland environment.
3. Those who want the excitement of the water show will now be able to get their fix over at DCA which, will allow Disneylandís west side to again become a pleasant environment in the evenings.
4. WOC will go through a learning phase concerning operation and maintenance just as Fantasmic did. But, as the whole WOC show was conceived from every angle and has ease of maintenance and repair as one of the key elements in itís design, it should be less problematic than F!.
5. Since they've made a huge investment in WOC, by eliminating F! Disney would be able to save the huge overhead costs of that show, thereby improving profits (of which F! probably eats up more than it provides).
1. The entire point of WoC is NOT to shut Fantasmic!, but to spread the crowds around. On a 3 night performance of Fantasmic! roughly 30,000 people watch it. WoC with it's one performance a night has a 9,000 person viewing area. At best it will accomodate maybe 11,000 people. Those 19,000 other people will fill ride lines and complain about lack of entertainment at the resort. Leaving Fantasmic! open alongside WoC will actually lessen crowds because a significant portion of those that would otherwise watch F! will be watching WoC making the RoA less crowded.
2. A discussion of theme is totally outside the scope of the current discussion. The current discussion is about the age of a show determining if it should be retired. I merely brought up GHR because it was more than a decade older than F! and still going strong. The MSEP ran 24 years and was even brought back by popular demand and is still going. Age of a show has nothing to do with it was the point I was making... it's demand. And there is still massive demand for F!.
Now, the ambiance destroying nature or theme arguments are kind of pointless because they are very heavily based in opinion most of the time. Does F! fit the theme of the area? Maybe not so much... but that's where DIsney chose to put it and that's where it will stay. Reality of a theme park trumps our debates every time. Especially when it was a decision made nearly 20 years ago. Bad or not... that's where it is and that's where it will stay. Some simply miss the quiet nights in RoA and that is understandable. There are other quiet areas of the park though. Some miss the night cruises on the MT or SSC, and that also is understandable... but things change and always will. Favorite things come and go.
3. But WoC can't absorb the entire crowd that views F! every single night. They simply haven't got the room to handle 2 or 3 shows full of F! people. And with several key rides having to be shut down before the show (according to several sources on here), it's doubtful they will keep the park open past a single showing.
4. Agreed. At first it will have it's bugs, though hopefully minimal after a lengthy (many many months) programming period.
5. F! is actually one proof of the fact that it isn't all about profits. And while $30k a show sounds expensive... Disney makes rakes in a massive massive amount more than that every single day in food, retail, tickets, etc at the resort. This is one of those things where it's worth it to them to continue spending because it makes so many happy... as evidenced by the massive numbers at every showing.
Originally Posted by bfdf55
Fantasmioc is drawing crowds because THATís what Disneyland is offering. I do hope that there will be such a significant drop in Fantasmic! crowds that DL will eliminate the show.
There won't be... simply because WoC isn't designed to hold that many people. And it's also not what Disney wants. They want 2 nighttime shows to spread the crowds around.
Originally Posted by bfdf55
Entertainment is fine when it doesnít destroy the overall ambiance of the park. Parades have been somewhat tolerable except for the hour or so around their presentation. The fireworks have become worse since Disneyland entertainment decided to focus the show on the Castle, causing crowd nightmares on Main Street and the Hub.
Fantasmic! really only gets bad for about an hour or so before and after. And on a multi-show night, they clear the entire area before another showing anyway. Since it's at the same time as the fireworks, the crowds either go ride rides, or watch the fireworks.
And when were the fireworks not viewed from the hub by the majority of people? Sure they didn't use the castle as a focal point of the show, but the main viewing location for them has bee the hub, Main Street has it not? Could it simply be that as attendance has increased over the years, so too have the crowds at major entertainment offerings? Could it also be that as we have gotten older, crowds have become less tolerable for us? I know this is true of me. I used to not care one white about crowds... now they irk me somewhat and I really have to work to just let it slide and pay attention to the fun I'm having. Gets harder as I grow older.
Originally Posted by bfdf55
But Fantasmic! is totally the worst, causing almost total crowd control nightmares on the entire west side from dusk Ďtil closing.
Disney does a pretty amazing job of keeping people flowing though. Yeah it's crowded... yes there are a ton of people in very close proximity, yeah they have minimalized walkways... but it isn't total gridlock. Slow, but not stopped. And once WoC opens, those walkways will open up noticeably as many people go to see WoC. F! will still run for those that can't get into WoC, but possibly only a single nightly showing. I think the ideal would be to have one of each show, at the same time, each night. If there is enough of a demand, they could do 2 of F!. Crowds will probably be anywhere from 1/3 to 1/2 what they are now for F!. That's if it goes according to their plan. But if you imagine the crowds being that much thinner, it is a huge improvement.
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