Disneyland Project Tracker

[MasterGracey]

Originally Posted by WDITrent

I actually agree with MG1969... There's a lot of dead horses being beaten. And once you beat the dead horse, you're only calling the flies to come fight over the dead horse. Think about what MFW turned into... and that was a VERY dead horse. It's only a matter of time before this becomes a dead horse. And it's kind of sad that it has the potential of being dead before even being born. So I say we let the horse live, have time for it to actually come into existence, then kill the horse if we need to, and once it's dead, we leave it.

And I understand all this about not liking the discussion, but you might want to take into account the amount of people reading and participating in this thread. It seems like anyone against beating the dead horse has been given the cold shoulder and literally told to not take part in this discussion anymore. I enjoy reading these threads. They are helpful tools for all of us curious MiceChatters who want to know what's going on in the Disney Parks. And there are plenty of people who disagree with you, so I think that on a high-traffic thread like this, they should be allowed to express their feelings of limitations without receiving a suggestion to go away.

If MasterGracey1969 wanted to actively contribute to the discussion by provided well-considered points and counter-points, then by all means. There would be no cold shoulder.

MasterGracey1969 got the "cold shoulder" because they didn't do that -- they posted an emoticon twice that didn't do anything to progress the discussion, but rather steered the entire thread off-topic.

[WDITrent]

Originally Posted by MasterGracey

If MasterGracey1969 wanted to actively contribute to the discussion by provided well-considered points and counter-points, then by all means. There would be no cold shoulder.

MasterGracey1969 got the "cold shoulder" because they didn't do that -- they posted an emotiocon twice that didn't do anything to progress the discussion, but rather steered the entire thread off-topic.

Just making a suggestion.
Thought you might be concerned.

Guess not.

[The Disneylander]

Okay, now this is getting really off topic.

Can we please stop hitting potshots at each other, please?

[Tomorrowland Tourist]

I would propose the question, does the existence of a gallery in a bank really portray that we aren't in a turn-of-the century town anymore?

I would argue no, because the display of art in a bank is not tied to a specific time period. However, should Disney place self-service kiosks that allow you to purchase art on demand, we would lose the thematic strength of having an old 19th century bank on Main Street. I thought the display of artwork in the Disneyland Opera House for the 50th was a nice touch, and did not weaken the theme.

Although the bank is not offering any type of service that represents banking (it hasn't been an actual "bank" thanks to the advent of ATM's and the departure of Bank of America fro the park), I think the bank can still be preserved while displaying gallery exhibits.

[MasterGracey]

Originally Posted by Tomorrowland Tourist

I would propose the question, does the existence of a gallery in a bank really portray that we aren't in a turn-of-the century town anymore?

While it may not ultimately reflect as thematically inappropriate as Pirates in Frontierland, the art gallery in a bank certainly doesn't support or strengthen the turn-of-the-century town theme. But it seems like you're getting at the "It's not that big of an issue" or "The previous use wasn't thematically appropriate, either" arguments, which aren't really arguments at all.

[Tomorrowland Tourist]

^On the contrary, I would argue thematic strength of Main Street is very important, and it is important that Disney ensures that any replacement for the bank is appropriately themed, regardless of how it was used in the past.

The problem lies in whether or not the theme becomes convoluted, which I think you have articulated well. I still contend that a gallery-in-the-bank is not a thematic violation of Main Street representing a town circa the early 1900's. However, I think saying that it doesn't strengthen or support the theme is a fair statement. Thus, I guess I am changing my opinion. We aren't transported into the future, but we are left wondering why the "Bank of Main Street" houses an art gallery. I think the issue isn't an inappropriate reference to time, but rather the contribution to a more confusing theme. A bank is a bank, not a gallery.

What kind of town has a bank, but instead of money, has a gallery inside? I think it is time for the bank to go to Yesterland. The vault and the teller counter are very sentimental to me, especially since it reminds of the bank scene in Mary Poppins, but I think sending it to the Walt Disney Family Museum is a great gesture.

Furthermore, if you think about it, Main Street U.S.A. is a bit of a socialist town. Ironic, considering Walt Disney's somewhat well-known opinions toward socialism. Think about it, all the merchants on Main Street aren't competing with one another, they are working in conjunction instead of competing. The disappearance of the bank makes the most sense, and a type of exhibition for Disney Gallery collections is a great idea. Make it a multi-level gallery, and the Gallery may find a permanent home (although I still miss the NOS location).

[MasterGracey]

Originally Posted by Tomorrowland Tourist

^On the contrary, I would argue thematic strength of Main Street is very important, and it is important that Disney ensures that any replacement for the bank is appropriately themed, regardless of how it was used in the past.

The problem lies in whether or not the theme becomes convoluted, which I think you have articulated well. I still contend that a gallery-in-the-bank is not a thematic violation of Main Street representing a town circa the early 1900's. However, I think saying that it doesn't strengthen or support the theme is a fair statement. Thus, I guess I am changing my opinion. We aren't transported into the future, but we are left wondering why the "Bank of Main Street" houses an art gallery. I think the issue isn't an inappropriate reference to time, but rather the contribution to a more confusing theme. A bank is a bank, not a gallery.

What kind of town has a bank, but instead of money, has a gallery inside? I think it is time for the bank to go to Yesterland. The vault and the teller counter are very sentimental to me, especially since it reminds of the bank scene in Mary Poppins, but I think sending it to the Walt Disney Family Museum is a great gesture.

Furthermore, if you think about it, Main Street U.S.A. is a bit of a socialist town. Ironic, considering Walt Disney's somewhat well-known opinions toward socialism. Think about it, all the merchants on Main Street aren't competing with one another, they are working in conjunction instead of competing. The disappearance of the bank makes the most sense, and a type of exhibition for Disney Gallery collections is a great idea. Make it a multi-level gallery, and the Gallery may find a permanent home (although I still miss the NOS location).

Great post

[disneyboii]

^^^^^
I agree.
so with that said, lets move on the bank is gone no ammount of blogging is gonna change that and it does fit, cause guess what TOWNS HAVE ART GALLERYS banks all so shut down, so it fits just fine. how does great moments with licon fit! i think we lost focus back to progress we have a week till summer nightastic starts!!

[MasterGracey]

I don't understand why some people are so adamant about ending discussions on theme and show.

What, are we only allowed to say how great new things are, but not discuss how new additions are thematically relevant?

[Alpoe001]

Originally Posted by MasterGracey

I don't understand why some people are so adamant about ending discussions on theme and show.

What, are we only allowed to say how great new things are, but not discuss how new additions are thematically relevant?

but thats just it...Main Street USA is no longer thematically relevant.

but what if thats the direction Walt was taking it? Walt himself chose to put Babes in Toyland, Mickey Mouse Club, and Lincoln all on Main Street in the Opera House. And all 3 had nothing to do with 1900 Midwest America.

If you look at the general guest of the park... they dont care about the accuacy of the theme. It is only us here on Micechat. Is that sad? YES! but its the sign of the times. as long as the majority of the guests dont care - neither will WDI.

[MasterGracey]

Originally Posted by Alpoe001

but thats just it...Main Street USA is no longer thematically relevant.

Really?

That's why it is still the way every Magic Kingdom park welcomes guests, and why DCA's Sunshine Plaza is being remodeled into the Los Angeles version of Main Street USA?

Main Street, U.S.A. is as relevant as ever. Disney just doesn't care about theme anymore because they've realized that guests will continue to pay for a thematically inferior product.

Originally Posted by Alpoe001

If you look at the general guest of the park... they dont care about the accuacy of the theme. It is only us here on Micechat. Is that sad? YES! but its the sign of the times. as long as the majority of the guests dont care - neither will WDI.

Walt Disney never underestimated the sophistication of his guests and refused to talk down to his audience.

Those are beliefs that Walt Disney Imagineering and the greater Walt Disney Company obviously no longer subscribe to, and that fans also think are irrelevant and unnecessary.

[FutureImagineer183]

I bet if Walt was behind this and did this when he was still alive, no one would say a thing...

[mycroft16]

Originally Posted by Alpoe001

but what if thats the direction Walt was taking it? Walt himself chose to put Babes in Toyland, Mickey Mouse Club, and Lincoln all on Main Street in the Opera House. And all 3 had nothing to do with 1900 Midwest America.

That's just it though, they were IN the Opera House, not out on Main Street. An Opera house is a place you go to see a show, to escape the world you are in. So when you enter the Main Street Opera House, you are transported FROM Main Street to Lincoln, or Babes in Toyland or Mickey Mouse Club, etc. The very theme of an Opera House allows them to put pretty much any type of "show" inside it.

Whereas the theme of a bank does not allow for that. A bank is a bank, not a gallery. That is convoluted theme.

Originally Posted by Alpoe001

If you look at the general guest of the park... they dont care about the accuacy of the theme. It is only us here on Micechat. Is that sad? YES! but its the sign of the times. as long as the majority of the guests dont care - neither will WDI.

No, it is not only us here on MiceChat. We just happen to be very vocal about it. Guests like the rides in Tomorrowland, but they almost ALL recognize that something is very wrong with Tomorrowland. They may not know what to call it or how to explain it, but they know that something isn't right. Subconciously, theme is noticed and paid very close attention to, and it is felt severely when it is wrong or gone.

[Alpoe001]

Originally Posted by MasterGracey

Really?

That's why it is still the way every Magic Kingdom park welcomes guests, and why DCA's Sunshine Plaza is being remodeled into the Los Angeles version of Main Street USA?

Main Street, U.S.A. is as relevant as ever. Disney just doesn't care about theme anymore because they've realized that guests will continue to pay for a thematically inferior product.

how do the news stands add to the theme? or Disney Showcase? or Disneyana? how does a bunch of boring Disney merchandise say 1900 america? how does walking into Candy Palace feel like a 1900 candy store?

the only other thing relevant to the theme is the idea that you are supposed to be in a turn of the century town... thats it! if it wasnt for Disney saying that it was 1900 america, would the average person know that was the theme?

Originally Posted by MasterGracey

Walt Disney never underestimated the sophistication of his guests and refused to talk down to his audience.

Those are beliefs that Walt Disney Imagineering and the greater Walt Disney Company obviously no longer subscribe to, and that fans also think are irrelevant and unnecessary.

of course he never underestimated the guests... if anything he overestimated. he created the park thinking that the guest would always respect his vision. As a CM at the Opera house I saw soo many average americans look at the Mickey and Walt mosaic mural in the entryway and not even know who Walt was. There are very few people in the world that actually understand his thinking anymore - the mass public just see Disney parks as amusement parks and treat them like the run-of-the-mill fair or carnival.

it seems that only the Disney nuts of the world (us Micechatters) respect the park for what it was and what it could be again. isnt that the soul reason we are on here? we are the only people who care about these discussions and choose to discuss them.

[Uncle Bob]

Originally Posted by Alpoe001

how do the news stands add to the theme? or Disney Showcase? or Disneyana? how does a bunch of boring Disney merchandise say 1900 america? how does walking into Candy Palace feel like a 1900 candy store?

the only other thing relevant to the theme is the idea that you are supposed to be in a turn of the century town... thats it! if it wasnt for Disney saying that it was 1900 america, would the average person know that was the theme?



of course he never underestimated the guests... if anything he overestimated. he created the park thinking that the guest would always respect his vision. As a CM at the Opera house I saw soo many average americans look at the Mickey and Walt mosaic mural in the entryway and not even know who Walt was. There are very few people in the world that actually understand his thinking anymore - the mass public just see Disney parks as amusement parks and treat them like the run-of-the-mill fair or carnival.

it seems that only the Disney nuts of the world (us Micechatters) respect the park for what it was and what it could be again. isnt that the soul reason we are on here? we are the only people who care about these discussions and choose to discuss them.

This is so ridiculous. How do you know what everyone who's not a micechatter thinks about DL? You have to have internet access and a computer and care to use it to be on Micechat. There are probably bigger Disney fans then many of us out there that don't know what a blog is. This idea that the public doesn't care about theme is obnoxious, untrue and seems to be becoming widely applied by MCer's to make these arguements that theme doesn't matter, which is scary. There is a reason why the public overwhelmingly chooses Disney parks over the competition, it's really not even a fight, and a large part of that is theme. If Disney wants to have a bunch of parks that have under 5 million guests a year, then by all means, ignore theme. If it works for Six Flags right?