Disneyland Project Tracker

[themur]

At times, this has been and interesting discussion. I guess much of the real question does the interior of the buildings have to support the exterior.

Main Street has never been an historical recreation. The street is intended to evoke the feeling of a turn of the century, mid-american city. In fact one of the definitions of theme is "artistic representation." Does an exterior facade for a bank do that? Surely. Would it be overalll stronger if it actually was a bank as it was when the park opened? Of course. Is it necessary, my opinion is that I don't think so. I still get the feeling of what the town square would include.

Since due to the modern miracle of ATMs and credit cards, the park doesn't really need a bank, I like the idea of leaving some of the bank elements in place even in a space used as a gallery because we get a peek at what a turn of the century bank might have looked like. Most people coming to DL wouldn't care at all about little elements like this but it is something that I would appreciate.

[Ryancr78]

Originally Posted by themur

At times, this has been and interesting discussion. I guess much of the real question does the interior of the buildings have to support the exterior.

Main Street has never been an historical recreation. The street is intended to evoke the feeling of a turn of the century, mid-american city. In fact one of the definitions of theme is "artistic representation." Does an exterior facade for a bank do that? Surely. Would it be overalll stronger if it actually was a bank as it was when the park opened? Of course. Is it necessary, my opinion is that I don't think so. I still get the feeling of what the town square would include.

Since due to the modern miracle of ATMs and credit cards, the park doesn't really need a bank, I like the idea of leaving some of the bank elements in place even in a space used as a gallery because we get a peek at what a turn of the century bank might have looked like. Most people coming to DL wouldn't care at all about little elements like this but it is something that I would appreciate.

Thank you - very well put.

[MasterGracey]

Originally Posted by Alpoe001

how do the news stands add to the theme? or Disney Showcase? or Disneyana? how does a bunch of boring Disney merchandise say 1900 america? how does walking into Candy Palace feel like a 1900 candy store?

the only other thing relevant to the theme is the idea that you are supposed to be in a turn of the century town... thats it! if it wasnt for Disney saying that it was 1900 america, would the average person know that was the theme?

You're making the fatal mistake of underestimating your guests. That's what Paul Pressler did and the end result was Disney's California Adventure, Tomorrowland '98, and a lot of damage done to Disneyland.

Originally Posted by Alpoe001

of course he never underestimated the guests... if anything he overestimated. he created the park thinking that the guest would always respect his vision. As a CM at the Opera house I saw soo many average americans look at the Mickey and Walt mosaic mural in the entryway and not even know who Walt was. There are very few people in the world that actually understand his thinking anymore - the mass public just see Disney parks as amusement parks and treat them like the run-of-the-mill fair or carnival.

it seems that only the Disney nuts of the world (us Micechatters) respect the park for what it was and what it could be again. isnt that the soul reason we are on here? we are the only people who care about these discussions and choose to discuss them.

So because you believe people have forgotten Walt Disney, it's okay for the park to forget him, too?

I think that is one of the most flawed arguments I have ever read on these boards.

It's in Disney's best interest to make sure Walt Disney remains a relevant part of their company, and that his vision, ideals, and methods continue to lead the company's progress. Replacing everything Walt Disney did that worked with new methods simply because they're too costly or because it is perceived that the public no longer knows who Walt Disney is, is asking for eventual failure.

Originally Posted by Uncle Bob

This is so ridiculous. How do you know what everyone who's not a micechatter thinks about DL? You have to have internet access and a computer and care to use it to be on Micechat. There are probably bigger Disney fans then many of us out there that don't know what a blog is. This idea that the public doesn't care about theme is obnoxious, untrue and seems to be becoming widely applied by MCer's to make these arguements that theme doesn't matter, which is scary. There is a reason why the public overwhelmingly chooses Disney parks over the competition, it's really not even a fight, and a large part of that is theme. If Disney wants to have a bunch of parks that have under 5 million guests a year, then by all means, ignore theme. If it works for Six Flags right?

Agreed. Good post.

Originally Posted by themur

Main Street has never been an historical recreation. The street is intended to evoke the feeling of a turn of the century, mid-american city. In fact one of the definitions of theme is "artistic representation." Does an exterior facade for a bank do that? Surely. Would it be overalll stronger if it actually was a bank as it was when the park opened? Of course. Is it necessary, my opinion is that I don't think so. I still get the feeling of what the town square would include

A certain level of suspension of disbelief is being aimed for in every area of Disneyland. Main Street, U.S.A. is arguably one of the most significant areas of the park, as it sets the tone for the beginning of your Disneyland experience and wraps it up. It's extremely important that every area of Disneyland has enough realism, no matter how romanticized, so that the illusion is believable, and that is even more true of Main Street, U.S.A.

Unfortunately, that realism continues to be chipped away at -- it seems for Disney, the attention to theme and suspension of disbelief is an expendable leftover from their eccentric founder.

[Imagineerfan]

Wow, there has been some good, well reasoned discussion in the last few pages. I hardly know where to begin and I honestly think I'm left with more questions than answers.

Someone asked in an earlier post if the outside needs to match the inside. What's interesting with that question is how do you see Disneyland in relation to theme. On the one hand, you can look at the theme similar to a movie set. In fact, that is the background of a lot of the original Imagineers. Walt hired off the studio lot. He hired set designers and set dressers and all the workers needed, which essentially are the same folks who built the movie sets and Hollywood backlots.

If you look at theme from the standpoint of Hollywood backlot, then no. On a Hollywood backlot, there is nothing on the other side of the facade. That is exactly part of the problem with the Hollywood area of DCA nothing on the other side. You also can't say that Hollywood movie sets and backlots are not highly themed because they abolsutely are. They are highly themed exteriors that can transport you to a different time and place. From that standpoint, in the case of Main Street, the theme is largely intact. "cough"

From a movie set exterior standpoint, it's pretty much all there, although a lot of the set dressing has gone missing over the years. I don't think the colors of Main Street are acurate and it's all a bit too "fairy dust" for me. From a strict set design standpoint, it certainly feels less authentic than parts of Adventureland, or Frontierland. A big part of that for me is the current color palette. I also think a lot of the little details have gone missing. The mantles in the streetlamps is one of many little things.

Anyway... you can then think of theme more as being a historical recreation then, yes, the inside should match the outside. In many cases, on Main Street it does. Unfortunately, more and more are getting lost and that is what is hard.

Back in the day, from what I've heard, there were a bunch of little individual shops on Main Street all selling different more period appropriate merchandise. While I can think it would be incredibly cool and I'd love to have the opportunity to browse through them for myself, I can't imagine how much stuff anyone would really buy at Disneyland? Let's face it, it might have been incredibly cool that there was a bra shop on Main Street, c'mon, how many women went to Disneyland to buy a bra?

So when it comes to theme, where do you draw the line between a fully immersive theme and maximizing the profit potential of the park? I think that is where the crux of the argument is coming from. The ying and yang between those two viewpoints.

If you look at the insides matching the outsides, then Main Street is a mess, but even so, where do you draw the line? On the one hand, I can completely appreciate the little touches they put into the interior design of the shops. However, most of it is lost on me because of all the modern stuff and such in the shops. So suppose you replace the merchandise with more period appropriate or land specific merchandise, how much of it would sell?

Bottom line, I'm glad the art gallery is coming back, I'm sorry we're losing the bank. But even as an AP, I can't ever remember going into the bank. I suppose once it becomes the gallery, I will finally get in to see the inside.

[Alpoe001]

Originally Posted by MasterGracey

You're making the fatal mistake of underestimating your guests. That's what Paul Pressler did and the end result was Disney's California Adventure, Tomorrowland '98, and a lot of damage done to Disneyland.

so your saying that every bit and piece of Main Street will make a person who knows nothing of the park or Walt Disney know that the theme is turn of the century middle america, based on Marceline, Missouri?

Main Street Standard Operation Procedure Manual
“Main Street, U.S.A. is America at the turn of the century – the crossroads of an era. The gas lamps and electric lamp, the horse-drawn car and the auto car. Main Street is everyone’s hometown, the heartland of America.”

Walt Disney

Main Street, U.S.A. recreates the unique charm of small town America over a century ago. Standing at the crossroads of two eras, gas lamps are being replaced by Edison’s new electric lights, horse-drawn streetcars vie for the right of way with puttering motorcars. New inventions, such as the Victrola, telephone and ice cream cones have been embraced by this town, which is filled with hope and optimism for the twentieth century.

and heck yeah I underestimate guests... ive had people waiting in line at the Tiki Room thinking it was the line for Indy. "what time is the 3 o'clock parade?" "where are the skies above disneyland?"

Pressler & Harris undereatimated guests thinking they would understand their idea... what i am saying is that WDI can't underestimate that they will get it without a well detailed theme.

Originally Posted by MasterGracey

So because you believe people have forgotten Walt Disney, it's okay for the park to forget him, too?

I think that is one of the most flawed arguments I have ever read on these boards.

It's in Disney's best interest to make sure Walt Disney remains a relevant part of their company, and that his vision, ideals, and methods continue to lead the company's progress. Replacing everything Walt Disney did that worked with new methods simply because they're too costly or because it is perceived that the public no longer knows who Walt Disney is, is asking for eventual failure.

and where did I say anyone should forget about Walt Disney?

in laymen terms I said... if a guest is too ignorant to know who Walt Disney is, then they are too ignorant to know the theme of a land without slapping them in the face with all the details.

I was stating that Disney needs to tighten the themes of each land for people to completely get what it is. Tomorrowland has lost its Tomorrow and Main Street has lost its Past.

I mean heck Knott's has gone to hell but Ghost Town has kept its theme... it may have tons of shops and eateries that arent period, but it has kept all the window displays that show the theme, embrace the theme, and are the theme.

Main Street is just "The Old Town Mall" but at Disneyland. So yes I say its lost alot of its theme.

so if you are content with the same generic Disney items up and down main street... then :-P

[kaliwolf]

Originally Posted by Alpoe001

of course he never underestimated the guests... if anything he overestimated. he created the park thinking that the guest would always respect his vision. As a CM at the Opera house I saw soo many average americans look at the Mickey and Walt mosaic mural in the entryway and not even know who Walt was. There are very few people in the world that actually understand his thinking anymore - the mass public just see Disney parks as amusement parks and treat them like the run-of-the-mill fair or carnival.

it seems that only the Disney nuts of the world (us Micechatters) respect the park for what it was and what it could be again. isnt that the soul reason we are on here? we are the only people who care about these discussions and choose to discuss them.

So, what's your point? That Walt was an old kook who had far too much faith in people? That the general population only wants and deserves lowest common denominator entertainment? That we should just give up and suffer through the dumbing down of the world?

Just because cynicism seems to be the favor of the decade doesn't mean I have to succumb to it.

That said, I don't have a real problem with the idea of a turn of the century bank closing and and art gallery taking over. Who's to say the bankers didn't move their business to a larger building with more vault space somewhere just out of sight? As LLCMC has said, sometimes it takes a good bit of imagination and suspension of disbelief to see how the themes and details can all fit together. I don't think Disneyland was ever meant to be some bastion of historical accuracy. For the first time, I've found a good use for this phrase: "Disneyland is not a museum." Museums are generally charged with getting all their dates and facts right, Disney's parks are not. I think these theming discussions start to go way off base when people start championing a slavish adherance to exact periods and history, rather that an evocation of how an era couldv'e been, or should've been.

Sometimes you have to make concessions to reality. There are only so many spots the Gallery could've gone in, and I think throwing it into the Bank as part of the Lincoln project was possibly a major reason they actually got the green light. So, would you rather they remove all the details of the Bank? The woodwork, the teller cages, the vault? Things that added some actual history and authenticity to Main Street, not to mention charm? It seems like some of you would like to do just that... I prefer the compromise myself.

Originally Posted by Uncle Bob

This is so ridiculous. How do you know what everyone who's not a micechatter thinks about DL? You have to have internet access and a computer and care to use it to be on Micechat. There are probably bigger Disney fans then many of us out there that don't know what a blog is.

I've often wondered if Japanese Disney fans have similar conversations to what is seen here? I've never really found any dedicated park forums like the english or french sites out there, but perhaps I'm just not sure what I'm looking for since I don't speak the language (which means it would do me little good even if I did find one). Still, from my own observations while at TDR, Japanese fans seem like they could outdo any Micechatter any day on sheer enthusiasm for the parks. Could they also outdo us on "watchdog" type topics? Maybe there's less of a need, since WDI seems to get things right in Tokyo the first time out. Not always, but most of the time. I wonder if there's much criticism on the ill placement of their new Monsters Inc. attraction (I personally think that could be solved if they rethemed Tomorrowland into a Sci-Fi concept, like Eddie Sotto wanted to)?

[MasterGracey]

Originally Posted by Alpoe001

so your saying that every bit and piece of Main Street will make a person who knows nothing of the park or Walt Disney know that the theme is turn of the century middle america, based on Marceline, Missouri?

Main Street's various elements should work together to make a show that is strong enough to allow guests to suspend disbelief and believe that they are in a real location and not an Anaheim, California theme park in 2009.

Originally Posted by Alpoe001

and heck yeah I underestimate guests... ive had people waiting in line at the Tiki Room thinking it was the line for Indy. "what time is the 3 o'clock parade?" "where are the skies above disneyland?"

Pressler & Harris undereatimated guests thinking they would understand their idea... what i am saying is that WDI can't underestimate that they will get it without a well detailed theme.

Sounds like you're jaded by a bad work experience. Sorry, but every customer service job seems to attract the most ridiculous customers - that's just how it is. That doesn't mean that every customer is the same, though. Be careful making broad generalizations.

Originally Posted by Alpoe001

and where did I say anyone should forget about Walt Disney?

It seemed there was an implication that Walt Disney was no longer an important figure for Disneyland, U.S.A. when you described guest reactions to the Walt and Mickey photo mural at the Opera House.

Originally Posted by Alpoe001

in laymen terms I said... if a guest is too ignorant to know who Walt Disney is, then they are too ignorant to know the theme of a land without slapping them in the face with all the details.

I was stating that Disney needs to tighten the themes of each land for people to completely get what it is. Tomorrowland has lost its Tomorrow and Main Street has lost its Past.

Your previous posts certainly read differently than this, especially when you said that Main Street, U.S.A. was no longer relevant.

Originally Posted by Alpoe001

so if you are content with the same generic Disney items up and down main street... then :-P

I'm not sure where you ever got the idea that I was. I'm not, but that isn't what this discussion is about; it's about the Bank of Main Street.

Originally Posted by kaliwolf

So, what's your point? That Walt was an old kook who had far too much faith in people? That the general population only wants and deserves lowest common denominator entertainment? That we should just give up and suffer through the dumbing down of the world?

For the jaded ex-CM, that's certainly what it seems like.

Originally Posted by kaliwolf

That said, I don't have a real problem with the idea of a turn of the century bank closing and and art gallery taking over. Who's to say the bankers didn't move their business to a larger building with more vault space somewhere just out of sight?

That argument would certainly work if Main Street, U.S.A. wasn't thematically frozen in time. The year on Main Street never changes - the Bank would still have no reason to move to a bigger location.

Originally Posted by kaliwolf

As LLCMC has said, sometimes it takes a good bit of imagination and suspension of disbelief to see how the themes and details can all fit together. I don't think Disneyland was ever meant to be some bastion of historical accuracy. For the first time, I've found a good use for this phrase: "Disneyland is not a museum." Museums are generally charged with getting all their dates and facts right, Disney's parks are not. I think these theming discussions start to go way off base when people start championing a slavish adherance to exact periods and history, rather that an evocation of how an era couldv'e been, or should've been.

I don't think anybody is saying Disneyland is supposed to be "bastion of historical accuracy." But I also think it would be disservice to imply or say that historical accuracy at some level isn't necessary to make the show work.

[Alpoe001]

Originally Posted by MasterGracey

Main Street's various elements should work together to make a show that is strong enough to allow guests to suspend disbelief and believe that they are in a real location and not an Anaheim, California theme park in 2009.

Sounds like you're jaded by a bad work experience. Sorry, but every customer service job seems to attract the most ridiculous customers - that's just how it is. That doesn't mean that every customer is the same, though. Be careful making broad generalizations.

It seemed there was an implication that Walt Disney was no longer an important figure for Disneyland, U.S.A. when you described guest reactions to the Walt and Mickey photo mural at the Opera House.

Your previous posts certainly read differently than this, especially when you said that Main Street, U.S.A. was no longer relevant.

I'm not sure where you ever got the idea that I was. I'm not, but that isn't what this discussion is about; it's about the Bank of Main Street.

Unfortunatly I come from a theatrical and artistic background... and yes I guess you can say I am jaded by ignorant guests... but to me the theme of Main Street contradicts itself. And when I said it wasnt relevant... its not relevant to the theme. Everything is smeared together into 1 giant shop. I mean why does Main Street have to be a giant World of Disney shop? Where are the exhibits and displays of turn of the century small town life? I go for the details and decoration the rest is scrap. The only reason I even go into the Emporium is to look at the Vignettes.

so..........

the props and decor are just dots - the rest of Main street needs to be the lines connecting them all together to create the picture(aka Theme)

so until I see more then just dots Main Street is not relevant to the theme or its intent - because everything else is just intrusion...which we all know Walt did not want, thats why he made the berm

[MasterGracey]

Originally Posted by Alpoe001

Unfortunatly I come from a theatrical and artistic background... and yes I guess you can say I am jaded by ignorant guests... but to me the theme of Main Street contradicts itself. And when I said it wasnt relevant... its not relevant to the theme. Everything is smeared together into 1 giant shop. I mean why does Main Street have to be a giant World of Disney shop? Where are the exhibits and displays of turn of the century small town life? I go for the details and decoration the rest is scrap. The only reason I even go into the Emporium is to look at the Vignettes.

so..........

the props and decor are just dots - the rest of Main street needs to be the lines connecting them all together to create the picture(aka Theme)

so until I see more then just dots Main Street is not relevant to the theme or its intent - because everything else is just intrusion...which we all know Walt did not want, thats why he made the berm

So then, what, ultimately is your point?

Is the Bank-turned-Disney Galley thematically appropriate? Or is it acceptable only because the rest of Main Street is a thematic mess?

If you go with the latter, then I think your argument is null. Just because there are other problems doesn't mean that we should complacently allow more problems to be added onto the pile. We should be advocating that each new addition should work to re-strengthening the theme and show. And we should be encouraging Disney to fix past mistakes.

[Alpoe001]

Originally Posted by MasterGracey

So then, what, ultimately is your point?

Is the Bank-turned-Disney Galley thematically appropriate? Or is it acceptable only because the rest of Main Street is a thematic mess?

If you go with the latter, then I think your argument is null. Just because there are other problems doesn't mean that we should complacently allow more problems to be added onto the pile. We should be advocating that each new addition should work to re-strengthening the theme and show. And we should be encouraging Disney to fix past mistakes.

Ultimatly...

The Bank should remain as a Bank - I miss being able to go there and buy my Disney Dollars. The AP center should be in DTD and the Pavillion should have been made into the Gallery.

Town Square should be Municipal... if the Gallery was to be put anywhere in Town Square it should just be in the Opera House as there is alot of room for both permanent displays and rotating exhibits - especially with the removal of Walt's Offices. If your wondering why there.... Opera is an art and even larger high class opera houses of the time displayed art in their lobby's

Disney needs to focus on bringing sense and order to each land by following the theme set by each land... other wise before we know it we will have a pixar shop in NOS and a pirate shop in Tomorrowland

[Alpoe001]

Here is what the SOP for Main Street says

Overview

“Main Street, U.S.A. is America at the turn of the century – the crossroads of an era. The gas lamps and electric lamp, the horse-drawn car and the auto car. Main Street is everyone’s hometown, the heartland of America.”

Walt Disney

Main Street, U.S.A. recreates the unique charm of small town America over a century ago. Standing at the crossroads of two eras, gas lamps are being replaced by Edison’s new electric lights, horse-drawn streetcars vie for the right of way with puttering motorcars. New inventions, such as the Victrola, telephone and ice cream cones have been embraced by this town, which is filled with hope and optimism for the twentieth century.

Theme

Unique to all the lands of Disneyland, Main Street, U.S.A. was designed to play on the guests’ sense of nostalgia. It is a bygone era that was still familiar to early Disneyland guests. Main Street, U.S.A. looks back to an innocent and leisurely era, where the pace was slow and everyone in town knew each other by name. Teenagers sipped sodas at the local ice cream parlor, barbershop quartets were all the rage, and just sitting on a porch was an important part of the day.

This small town atmosphere provides a fitting backdrop to a wide range of live music and daily parades for which Disneyland is famous.

Main Street, U.S.A. is the only original land at Disneyland that has never been significantly altered. Although the businesses along the street have changed over the years, guests who had not visited the park since 1955 would find it comfortably familiar if they returned today.

Main Street, U.S.A. is comprised of three thematic areas.

The first area you enter at Disneyland, Town Square recalls of town squares and central plazas once found in small communities across America. The civic buildings and public services all face the small park-like square. On the South side of Town Square, near the Main Entrance, is the Main Street Station for the Disneyland Railroad. Here, authentic steam powered trains carry passengers to and from Main Street, U.S.A. On the West side of Town Square are the key civic buildings – City Hall and the Fire Station. On the East side are the Bank of Main Street and the Disneyland Opera House.

Town Square also serves as a center for the town’s public transportation. Here, visitors can board any of the Main Street Vehicles, such as the Horse-drawn Streetcar, the double-decker Omnibus, a turn-of-the-century Fire Engine or a Horseless Carriage, for a trip up Main Street to the Plaza.

In the center of Town Square is a tree-shaded, park-like area that is perfect for band concerts, strolling, or just watching people go by. Beneath its towering flagpole is the Disneyland Dedication Plaque, which carries these words:

Disneyland


To all who come to this happy place


-Welcome-


Disneyland is your land.


Here, age relives fond memories


of the past…and here youth may savor


the challenge and promise of the future.


Disneyland is dedicated


to the ideals, dreams and the hard facts that


have created America…


with the hope that it will be a source of joy


and inspiration to all the world.

July 17, 1955

Walt Disney

The second key thematic section is Main Street itself. This commercial street houses the merchandise, restaurants, commercial services and entertainment found in typical turn of the century small towns.

Bordering Town Square is the Emporium, a grand department store set in time somewhere between 1898 and 1910. It carries the broadest selection of goods for the bustling town, making it first or last stops for many visitors. As visitors travel up the street, they will find a diverse range of small town shops including a music store, china shop, camera shop, jewelry shop, book store, bakery, clothing stores, a general store, silhouette studio, and even a glass and crystal gift shop.

The town also features popular entertainment of the day. The Main Street Cinema shows silent films on six separate screens. At the Penny Arcade, kids of all ages can test their skills on vintage arcade games. On the street each day, barbershop quartets and other live musicians provide upbeat rhythms of the era.

The third key area of Main Street, U.S.A. is Central Plaza. At the center of the Plaza is a bronze statue of Walt Disney and Mickey Mouse called “Partners,” a tribute to Walt Disney and his most famous creation. From this park-like area, pathways lead directly into the other original lands of Disneyland. Designed like a spoke of a wheel leading from a central core, this “hub” design helps guests maintain a sense of orientation while visiting Disneyland. No matter where they are, pathways will lead them back to the Plaza.

On the South side of the Plaza are two of the most elegant restaurants of the era. The large white Victorian Plaza Inn featuring “Riverboat Gothic” architecture includes highly detailed period accents inside and out, from bronze lampposts and Baccarat crystal lighting fixtures to wall coverings and terrazzo-style flooring.

Across the way, the porch of the Plaza Pavilion remains a favorite place to enjoy light refreshments, watch the people go by, or take in the daily parade.

The crisp, clean buildings lining Main Street recall the small town American architecture of the era. Facades are completed in wood and brick, with generous storefront windows and the occasional porch.

Cast Member Role

Cast members on Main Street are residents of a small American town in the early 1900s who work in the shops, restaurants or service areas of their town. Their attitude is friendly and warm, quick to show visitors the best mid-western hospitality. Their turn-of-the-century costumes vary depending upon their role, but all are crisp, clean, and as cheery as the land itself.

Reference

Main Street, U.S.A. is inspired by Walt Disney’s own childhood memories of Marceline, Missouri

As in any American town, businesses along Main Street have changed over the years. In the early years of Disneyland, Main Street, U.S.A. hosted the most diverse range of shop imaginable. A guest wandering down Main Street might stop in the Upjohn Pharmacy, a detailed recreation of an apothecary at the turn of the century. In addition to 1,000 pharmaceutical antiques, it also featured a large jar of live leeches, and guests could pick up tiny free samples of vitamins. The Wurlitzer Music Hall showcased the latest in player pianos and demonstrated Wurlitzer organs. A lady could purchase undergarments at Hollywood Maxwell’s Intimate Apparel Shop, located where the China Shop is today. Sheet music from nearly every Disney film of the day was carried at the Wonderland Music Store. Tobacco and smoking accessories from around the world could be purchased from the Tobacco Shop. And for a time the Flower Market, located where the Carnation Café is today, carried a wide array of unusual man-made flower and floral pieces.

FILMOGRAPHY:


Here are a few films that depict small town America in the early 20th century.

Meet Me In St. Louis


Pollyanna


The Happiest Millionaire


Summer Magic


The Music Man


Easter Parade

[kaliwolf]

Originally Posted by MasterGracey

That argument would certainly work if Main Street, U.S.A. wasn't thematically frozen in time. The year on Main Street never changes - the Bank would still have no reason to move to a bigger location.

I think that's my problem right there, that some feel it needs to be locked into an exact date or year. Why? Why can't it be more of a depiction of a somewhat fluid era? The turn of the century was not a stagnant period by any means. It was a time of building, a time of invention, industrialization, electrification. Why else would Walt use it as the jumping off point for his show about American progress? To view the turn of the century township as a sleepy place with no movement forward, no building or change, would be a disservice to the spirit of the period. So again, why couldn't the town's Bank, perhaps overwhelmed by the growth of the town and the prosperity the train line brings, build a new large bank building just out of sight to our eyes, thus allowing the affluent of the town to set up an art gallery in the vacated building? Main Street could be viewed as a snapshot in time, but that doesn't negate all the history that occurred before that snapshot was taken.

EDIT: Interestingly enough, just as I posted, Alpoe posted that very interesting SOP above that in some ways agrees ("Standing at the crossroads of two eras, gas lamps are being replaced by Edison’s new electric lights, horse-drawn streetcars vie for the right of way with puttering motorcars..." etc.) and some ways disagrees ("Main Street, U.S.A. looks back to an innocent and leisurely era, where the pace was slow and everyone in town knew each other by name.") with what I was saying.

[mycroft16]

Originally Posted by kaliwolf

So again, why couldn't the town's Bank, perhaps overwhelmed by the growth of the town and the prosperity the train line brings, build a new large bank building just out of sight to our eyes, thus allowing the affluent of the town to set up an art gallery in the vacated building?

It could happen that way, but if a gallery moved in to the old bank, the first thing they would do is re-purpose the space by removing counters and other banking accoutremon, redo any electrical to allow for better lighting conditions, etc. They wouldn't leave the bank stuff just sitting there taking up valuable gallery space. Yes, it could be called "The Old Bank Gallery" to pay homage to the bank that went before. Wall fixtures and such could be left, but everything else "banky" would be gone. The vault door could be left and the vault, again stripped of everything banky but the door, just gallery space. If done in this manner, the idea can work within the theme. The bank aspect has to be incredibly subtle and totally in the background. There can be no real overt references to it besides the vault door.

[MasterGracey]

Originally Posted by kaliwolf

I think that's my problem right there, that some feel it needs to be locked into an exact date or year. Why? Why can't it be more of a depiction of a somewhat fluid era? The turn of the century was not a stagnant period by any means. It was a time of building, a time of invention, industrialization, electrification. Why else would Walt use it as the jumping off point for his show about American progress? To view the turn of the century township as a sleepy place with no movement forward, no building or change, would be a disservice to the spirit of the period. So again, why couldn't the town's Bank, perhaps overwhelmed by the growth of the town and the prosperity the train line brings, build a new large bank building just out of sight to our eyes, thus allowing the affluent of the town to set up an art gallery in the vacated building? Main Street could be viewed as a snapshot in time, but that doesn't negate all the history that occurred before that snapshot was taken.

You make a strong argument, and I see where you're coming from. I would argue that the rest of Main Street would need to support the idea that the town is getting too big for itself, necessitating a larger bank elsewhere. As it is, I think Main Street, while booming, isn't yet to that point, as evidenced by the design, size, and presentation of the buildings on Main Street.

I think Main Street's overall show would benefit from being as free from convolution as possible. I think a bank-turned-gallery backstory of any sort, especially with WDI's knack for putting too much unnecessary story in projects (See: Toy Story Midway Mania, etc.), is unnecessary. It would suit Main Street's idealized nature to simply have the bank removed altogether and replaced outright with the Gallery and pretend the former never existed. Afterall, does the China Closet use old props from Hollywood-Maxwell's Bra Shop and overlay them with snow globe displays?

[kaliwolf]

I can understand that point of view. I think partially where I'm coming from is due to my admiration of the complex and at times convoluted backstories of some of the lands at Disneyland Paris. All of Frontierland's elements being tied together by the story of the Ravenswood family for instance. Now, this Bank changeover doesn't reach for those lofty goals obviously, and I do favor simplicity over nonsensical backstories (as you said, TSMM), but I guess I just find it a suitable solution that doesn't require a complete gut and rebuild.