Sadness at Snow White's Wishing Well

[scrappydawg]

Techskip: What a nitpickin' troublemaker you've become!

[aashee]

I don't think I've ever seen more alliteration in a thread before. I'm a bit tongue-tied and not really which is dirtier, the fish or the posters posting about the previously posted fish. =D

Filthy Fish are far fouler then fanatical freaky fans.

[MickeyMaxx]

Moderator Note:

OK, folks. You certainly can have an opinion that differs from the OP. And, yes, the essence of a discussion board is to discuss things, but you've gone far afield from the topic, and several of you are bordering on personal attacks.

Back on topic, please, if there is anything left to genuinely discuss about the original topic.

Thanks for your help!

[Matt Hamand]

The reality is... the fish is dirty... so they can either clean it or they can leave it as it is.

The reality is that when you saw the fish it was dirty. You have no knowledge of the maintenance schedule for that attraction. You have no knowledge of how long its been since the last cleaning.

And that's really the problem with taking a snapshot of something wrong and posting it the way you did. When I saw a post entitled "Sadness at Snow White's Wishing Well" I thought that maybe a kid had fallen in and almost drowned or something. Instead its just some gunk build up on an attraction that might be next in line for cleaning anyway?

And then other posters just carried on from there. There was the "Walt would never let this happen", the "some MiceChatters have been drinking the Disney Kool-Aid", the "current DL management is a bunch of penny pinching lawyers", the "we point out these blemishes because we love Disney" .

Its all been heard here before.

In your original post you stated:

sometimes I feel a responsibility to point something like this out.

Really? A responsibility to whom?

To us? Why? We know that sometimes cleaning an attraction can take a while. There's a schedule, emergencies come up, not everything can happen instantly every time.

To some random person on the internet? Who might happen to find MiceChat and happen to click on this thread?

To Disney management? Who knows that there is an attraction cleaning schedule and that the fish are on it somewhere?

Who do you feel responsible to?

[DisneyIPresume]

The reality is that when you saw the fish it was dirty. You have no knowledge of the maintenance schedule for that attraction. You have no knowledge of how long its been since the last cleaning.

And that's really the problem with taking a snapshot of something wrong and posting it the way you did. When I saw a post entitled "Sadness at Snow White's Wishing Well" I thought that maybe a kid had fallen in and almost drowned or something. Instead its just some gunk build up on an attraction that might be next in line for cleaning anyway?

And then other posters just carried on from there. There was the "Walt would never let this happen", the "some MiceChatters have been drinking the Disney Kool-Aid", the "current DL management is a bunch of penny pinching lawyers", the "we point out these blemishes because we love Disney" .

Its all been heard here before.

In your original post you stated:

Really? A responsibility to whom?

To us? Why? We know that sometimes cleaning an attraction can take a while. There's a schedule, emergencies come up, not everything can happen instantly every time.

To some random person on the internet? Who might happen to find MiceChat and happen to click on this thread?

To Disney management? Who knows that there is an attraction cleaning schedule and that the fish are on it somewhere?

Who do you feel responsible to?

I can't speak for TS but it is our responsibility to bring this up not only for myself, but for the guests who come from far away to experience the quality that is Disneyland.

Tourists like to go to the beaches here too. And trash littered all over the beach is an embarrassment to me. The difference is that I can directly help clean up the beach by physically picking up the trash and throwing it away.

I can't clean the fish at DL. First off, Disney doesn't pay me to do it. And if I decided to do it on my own and Disney found me trapsing around in that fountain with a toothbrush I would be kicked out of the park before I could even blink. The least someone can do is post a picture of it here in the hopes that the maintenence schedule will be pushed up on it.

While we're on the subject, can Disney arrange for someone to fix the exit speedramp on HM? Its been busted for a couple of months now.

[techskip]

I want to start by saying thank you to everyone. Due to all the posts this has remained on the front page where it would be more likely to get noticed.

The reality is that when you saw the fish it was dirty. You have no knowledge of the maintenance schedule for that attraction. You have no knowledge of how long its been since the last cleaning.

going off previous experience from Jungle which uses the same water and has similar sized animals I would say at least a month.

And that's really the problem with taking a snapshot of something wrong and posting it the way you did. When I saw a post entitled "Sadness at Snow White's Wishing Well" I thought that maybe a kid had fallen in and almost drowned or something. Instead its just some gunk build up on an attraction that might be next in line for cleaning anyway?

Just wanted to verify that everyone agrees the fish is dirty. If this post bumps up the schedule then great. If this post does nothing and it just gets cleaned when it gets cleaned then so be it. Either way the fish gets cleaned.

And then other posters just carried on from there. There was the "Walt would never let this happen", the "some MiceChatters have been drinking the Disney Kool-Aid", the "current DL management is a bunch of penny pinching lawyers", the "we point out these blemishes because we love Disney" .

Its all been heard here before.

Yeah I pretty much stepped in a bear trap with this one. I just posted a picture of a dirty fish that my 4 year old noticed. Suddenly I am trying to keep a balance between those who feel I am nitpicking, and those who feel standards have slipped with this being some glaring example. I don't nitpick and I can easily see this as being an oversight since the fish are only up when the show is playing, and that area isn't in the most prominent of areas. It is very possible that Management has walked through many times and never been there when the fish were up. It happens. And honestly they have more important things to worry about then a dirty fish. But when a fish is so bad that the original color looks like spots, and a 4 year old girl notices it, maybe someone should say something.

Really? A responsibility to whom?

To us? Why? We know that sometimes cleaning an attraction can take a while. There's a schedule, emergencies come up, not everything can happen instantly every time.

To some random person on the internet? Who might happen to find MiceChat and happen to click on this thread?

To Disney management? Who knows that there is an attraction cleaning schedule and that the fish are on it somewhere?

Who do you feel responsible to?

My responsibility first and foremost is to my daughter. She noticed the fish, and is perplexed at why "Snow White hasn't given her fish a bath in a long time" (her words not mine). It's been 2 days, and she wants to watch the movie to see if the fish had a bath. I am a little concerned that she will actually bring this up if we meet Snow White in the near future.

My responsibility is to my friends. Many of whom are still CMs. They encouraged me to post this because they felt it would gain more attention then if they said anything internally.

And to a lesser degree my responsibility is to my former Managers and Leads. They trained me better and I owe it to them to live up to that. "On the clock, or off the clock, Disneyland is only as great as those who maintain it"-- Jim Doyle ADV 1 June 1999... Jim has since moved up in the food chain of Disneyland management, amazing guy. I also have plenty of quotes from former Leads, several of whom are up for awards, some of which already hold them. What can I say I was trained by some amazing individuals.

I also owe it to others who visit. It's the same reason people feel compelled to pick up trash, or bus a messy table even if it isn't theirs. This isn't an obscure window sill with peeling paint, or some odd theme violation. It is the centerpiece of a wonderful little show.

I didn't post it to scream at Management about lower standards. I didn't post it to nitpick. I didn't post it to stand on a soap box and preach the greatness of Walt Disney. I definitely didn't post it so I could defend previous posts and statements. I posted it because I noticed it. Sorry, didn't mean to mislead anyone with the title.

My name is Techskip and I endorse this post.

[fo'c's'le swab]

While small show elements are not important to all, they are apparently to some. I have never understood the intolerance for DL criticism on this board. It's existence is meant to encourage a 'Different Look at Disney', yet many times the adoption of a 'different' view is met with derision.

The fish look dirty. It's an important element to a favorite attraction of the OP. Definitely thread-worthy. To those who find 'useless complaining' to be a pointless waste of time, they should follow their own advice, and refrain from posting (complaining) in threads such as these.

[hollywood1939]

Did you tell anyone at City Hall? Or are people at MiceChat going to be the one's doing it?

Not saying you nitpick all the time but like Matt said, how do you know it's not going to be cleaned today or already was?

If you felt it was your responsibility to say something, I think it would have been constructive to tell the proper people who can actually do something about it. Besides the park is beautifully maintained and this is not Paul Pressler all over again.

And for the other people at the park, I'm pretty sure that 99.9% of the other guests there could have cared less. It's a small detail that's not going to be dirty forever.

Lastly, if that's really bothersome to you, seriously don't go as much.

[flynnibus]

So when Space Mountain is brown instead of white - we should just hang on knowing it will 'eventually' be cleaned?

Isn't that part of the point... this 'wait' obviously is too long because the cycle between cleanings is affecting the show quality of the attraction.

Sure everything gets touched eventually - but shouldn't they be getting enough attention that the state in between is not below standards?

[mycroft16]

"On the clock, or off the clock, Disneyland is only as great as those who maintain it"

I also owe it to others who visit. It's the same reason people feel compelled to pick up trash, or bus a messy table even if it isn't theirs.

My name is Techskip and I endorse this post.

This is the kind of pride and love for Disney that needs to spread like wildfire through the entire resort, from the lowest on the pay scale all the way up to the highest echelons of management.

When Walt was around, he often walked the park and pointed out things that simply were not right, as small as a railing leaning over, or fallen debris where it should not be. With Walt gone, that duty falls to ALL the employees of the company he created. What is great about Disneyland though is that Walt gave it to the world, to all people. It therefore becomes the responsibility of EVERYONE to make sure the parks stay beautiful and at the top of their form, be it busing a table for a stranger, picking up garbage that is not your own, or helping point out areas of neglect.

I have never understood the intolerance for DL criticism on this board.

Nor have I really. It makes no sense. It is not bashing the park, it is simply a "work-order" request as it were. It's like your kids coming into the house covered in mud and you demanding that they get themselves cleaned up first. You don't love them any less because they are dirty. You aren't about to refrain from seeing them because they are dirty. You simply would like them to be clean.

Not saying you nitpick all the time but like Matt said, how do you know it's not going to be cleaned today or already was?

So if you see a downed power line you don't call Public Service simply because you don't know if someone else already has or not? If that attitude were taken by everyone, nothing would ever get done.

And for the other people at the park, I'm pretty sure that 99.9% of the other guests there could have cared less. It's a small detail that's not going to be dirty forever.

It is because of people complaining about how things look that Disneyland does not look like this: http://www.themeparkreview.com/japan2004/nara1.htm

Be grateful that some people have the courage and courtesy to point out problems. There is no such thing as a little problem. Once you start letting little problems slide, larger and larger ones become that much easier to let slip. One of my favorite quotes on compromise and where it leads to:

"You can look the other way once, and it's no big deal, except it makes it easier for you to compromise the next time, and pretty soon that's all your doing; compromising, because that's the way you think things are done."

Compromising on integrity of show starts with the small details, and it is a dangerous, slippery slope to be on. You can't compromise when you are the best. At all, period.

[Steve DeGaetano]

Forget the fish! The Frontierland stockade looks ridiculous! Those missing logs over the entrance practically scream, "Welcome, hostile Comanches! Come on in!"

The fish...the stockade...Unless cleaned and/or repaired in a timely fashion, we see just some more declination by degrees. These things NEED to be pointed out. If the show is affected negatively--even in a small way--they need to be rectified.

[dlandjimmy]

Did you tell anyone at City Hall? Or are people at MiceChat going to be the one's doing it?

Not saying you nitpick all the time but like Matt said, how do you know it's not going to be cleaned today or already was?

If you felt it was your responsibility to say something, I think it would have been constructive to tell the proper people who can actually do something about it. Besides the park is beautifully maintained and this is not Paul Pressler all over again.

Maybe you didn't read the whole thread. It's clearly stated, several times, that these boards are watched by people that can get things done. I really doubt that with the new complaint/compliment system that is in use at City Hall, that this "small annoyance" would really make it to the people it should.

Lastly, if that's really bothersome to you, seriously don't go as much.

Haha. That's good stuff. You really must not have read the entire thread. That topic has been covered.

*Bump so hopefully it gets clean quicker.

[Matt Hamand]

Maybe you didn't read the whole thread. It's clearly stated, several times, that these boards are watched by people that can get things done. I really doubt that with the new complaint/compliment system that is in use at City Hall, that this "small annoyance" would really make it to the people it should.

Clearly stated? I guess that makes it official.

Haha. That's good stuff. You really must not have read the entire thread. That topic has been covered.

Of course its been covered. Its covered every time. That doesn't make H1939's point any less valid. Just like with a TV show you don't like, turn it off or change the channel. The same option is available here.

*Bump so hopefully it gets clean quicker.

Yes, bumping this thread from the 5th spot in the forum to the 1st for a few minutes is definitely going to get those fish cleaned.

[dlandjimmy]

Clearly stated? I guess that makes it official.

Yeah, pretty much.

Of course its been covered. Its covered every time. That doesn't make H1939's point any less valid. Just like with a TV show you don't like, turn it off or change the channel. The same option is available here.

And when you turn on the tv and it's the same exact episode you've already seen 5 times, it gets a little annoying. All I'm saying is that it's obvious that Tech and his family go to the park and have a great time. His day wasn't ruined, he posted it in hopes that it would get cleaned quick.

Telling him "Lastly, if that's really bothersome to you, seriously don't go as much." doesn't make any sense. He already said that it didn't ruin his whole trip, he just noticed it and thought posting it might help the cause.

Yes, bumping this thread from the 5th spot in the forum to the 1st for a few minutes is definitely going to get those fish cleaned.

Every little bit helps

[Matt Hamand]

Isn't that part of the point... this 'wait' obviously is too long because the cycle between cleanings is affecting the show quality of the attraction.

Sure everything gets touched eventually - but shouldn't they be getting enough attention that the state in between is not below standards?

I guess my issue is that no one involved in this discussion has any idea what the schedule is, what the budget for these type of cleaning/maintenance issues is, or how different "emergency" show quality issues are prioritized.

The people in charge of these departments have to take all of those into account when fixing/cleaning stuff.

The stockade logs: yeah it looks bad to have those gaps, but would it be better to have a log fall off onto guests? So the logs get taken down, that's priority one, a lower priority is replacing them. I don't know what the issues involved in replacing those logs are, neither does anyone else here. But most people in this thread seem comfortable just decreeing that they must be replaced as soon as someone notices them.

Same with the fish. I would imagine that there is a schedule for cleaning them. But if an issue comes up that is a higher priority, maybe the fish get cleaned next week. i don't know. And neither does anyone else here.