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  1. #1

    • Don't lets be silly! șoș
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    Hoist the sails!

    I know we had a topic on this not too long ago on why they didn't let the sails down on the Sailing Ship Columbia.

    Why Doesn't the Columbia Unfurl its Sails?

    What I would like to know is, where did the sails go? I can understand not letting them down, though not having them at all...?

  2. #2

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    Re: Hoist the sails!

    the columbia does have sails, they are tightly furled against the yards and bowsprit. Of course the yards have been removed for the rigging rehab that is going on, but they will be back. Then you can see the canvas on them.

    Before Fantasmic! the sails were unfurled, but were reefed up to reduce sail area. the engine on the columbia is not powerful enough to drive the ship against even a light wind in the sails. Also the running rigging that reefs the sails was removed because it interfered with the stunt performers in Fantasmic!
    Last edited by bucky; 09-13-2008 at 12:18 AM.

  3. #3

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    Re: Hoist the sails!

    Quote Originally Posted by bucky View Post
    the columbia does have sails, they are tightly reefed against the yards and bowsprit. Of course the yards have been removed for the rigging rehab that is going on, but they will be back. Then you can see the canvas on them.

    Before Fantasmic! the sails were unfurled, but only partially. the engine on the columbia is not powerful enough to drive the ship against even a light wind in the sails. Also the running rigging that unfurls and furls the sails was removed because it interfered with the stunt performers in Fantasmic!
    It's true that much of the rigging was removed, but the sails are furled and unfurled the old-fashioned way--by pure manpower hanging from the yards.

    In fact, there was a time when MANY of the sails were unfurled completely (the lower main sails furled because they would interfere with the view. But the upper sails on the three masts have been completely unfurled before.

    The sails were meant to be self-tacking, and self-regulating.

  4. #4

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    Re: Hoist the sails!

    Some have hoped that the sails could be returned following the Columbia return which focuses on the rigging. Designing new rigging with both Fantasmic! and the sails would make it possible, but, as Bucky pointed out, Columbia's engine still struggles to back the ship out of Fowlers in light winds.
    Perhaps when the engine is finally replaced, but who knows when that will happen?

  5. #5

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    Re: Hoist the sails!

    Quote Originally Posted by mrfantasmic View Post
    Columbia's engine still struggles to back the ship out of Fowlers in light winds.
    That seems doubtful to me, especially since there aren't any sails set. Time to check with the REAL expert--King of the Frogs.

    Stay tuned...

  6. #6

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    Re: Hoist the sails!

    Well, let us know... I get that from people who drive the boat every day.
    It's always amusing to hear Columbia revving but not going anywhere trying to get out in winds. Even at showspeed it can't get out!

  7. #7

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    Re: Hoist the sails!

    maybe it's not the winds but some kind of water resistance that's the problem there. a false current pushing into the harbor created by the other vehicles?

    i think showing the sails a little more looks lovely, but i also love the columbia scene in fantasmic, so i don't think i'd trade it back. at least they're not completely removed.
    "And all I ask is a tall ship and a star to steer her by" (John Masefield)



  8. #8

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    Re: Hoist the sails!

    Quote Originally Posted by twobluestripes View Post
    maybe it's not the winds but some kind of water resistance that's the problem there. a false current pushing into the harbor created by the other vehicles?
    Nah... There's barely a current to speak of in the River. The wake of Twain and the Rafts are certainly not enough to keep Columbia in.

  9. #9

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    Re: Hoist the sails!

    Might have more to do with the positioning of the "Kort nozzles." The "engines" are really electric motors driven of a CNG-powered engine running an generator. The props are probably just not as efficient in moving the vessel backwards (obviously, the stern isn't as "streamlined" as the bow).

    Still waiting to hear back from the King.

  10. #10

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    Re: Hoist the sails!

    No it is the wind, having been on the columbia when backing out of Fowler's in a moderate breeze and having to be pulled by the fantamic work boat to back past the tip of the island I can say for certain that the columbia's engine is not strong enough to move the ship in more than a light breeze. This is of course with the CNG powder engine and not the old diesel, which probably had no problem pulling the ship backwards.

    Also having climbed the rigging on Columbia many times, I can say that all of the running rig for the sails has been removed, except for the jib sail rig. but all of the running rig for the course, topsail and topgalant sails has been removed. You are correct, I misspoke I meant to say the rigging used to reef the sails have been removed, without which, you cannot safely unfurl the sails. nor does the columbia have the highly trained crew needed to furl and unfurl the sails.

  11. #11

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    Re: Hoist the sails!

    In all honesty, it doesn't matter to me that it doesn't unfurl its sails. I just want it to have sails again!

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    Re: Hoist the sails!

    Quote Originally Posted by bucky View Post
    No it is the wind, having been on the columbia when backing out of Fowler's in a moderate breeze and having to be pulled by the fantamic work boat to back past the tip of the island I can say for certain that the columbia's engine is not strong enough to move the ship in more than a light breeze. This is of course with the CNG powder engine and not the old diesel, which probably had no problem pulling the ship backwards.
    I'll still wait to hear from the expert, Bucky. No offense, but I'd rather hear from the marine architect who actually rebuilt the thing from the keel up, and has run ALL the "numbers."

    Besides, again, the mechanism driving the screws aren't diesel or CNG--they're electric motors, run off electricity generated by a CNG engine. Specifically, two (2) 15 horsepower DC electric motors coupled to 4.1 to 1 western gear reductors driving two (2) 30x18 propellers mounted in Kort nozzles.

    So...the CNG engine really has nothing to do with the equation, assuming it can generate just as much electricity as the original Detroit diesel (and there's so reason why it couldn't).
    Last edited by Steve DeGaetano; 09-13-2008 at 08:45 AM.

  13. #13

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    Re: Hoist the sails!

    The CNG powered generator is not as powerful as the old diesel, it constantly overheats and does not generate as much output as the diesel did. Before the CNG generator was installed, the columbia never had a problem backing out of fowlers in a light to moderate breeze. I never said the electric motors were a factor, only the engine that powers them.

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