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  1. #151

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    Re: First Look At the Blue Sky Cellar at California Adventure

    Quote Originally Posted by surffnutt3000 View Post
    * The minor Cars Land attractions - I do believe the operative word here is "minor". It's O.K. to have smaller attractions along with the big, but I simply can't give them much credit for "off the shelf, but nicely themed".
    Resurrecting an original ride system that was well-loved by guests in its few years of operation is hardly "off the shelf", IMO.

    Rock formations??? Other than it being one part of the overall look, not impressed. There are rock formations in front of Tomorrowland, and most of us are awaiting the day they're removed.
    How would Big Thunder Mountain look without the mountain?

    A barrier between the park and the real world??? For DCA, it's about time.
    I agree wholeheartedly. How, then, is it not a valid or important or major part of the refurb?

    * The all-new entrance - Again, nice, but something that should have always been there.
    Again, if it always should have been there, it's obviously an important element, and one that deserves having money devoted to it. My point was that you didn't include these sorts of elements in your breakdown, when they're obviously sucking up huge amounts of money - and necessarily so.

    The particular design of it isn't groundbreaking at all; it's very similar to the entrance of one of the existing Florida parks.
    I wasn't aware that the new Main-Street- and hub-like areas were lifted from another park. I thought that only applied to the turnstyles, which are from DHS.


  2. #152

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    Re: First Look At the Blue Sky Cellar at California Adventure

    Quote Originally Posted by Luke Manning View Post
    Oh come now, Little Mermaid will be an E-ticket! Just like Haunted Mansion or Pirates.
    It will (hopefully) be an E-ticket in the earlier sense of the term. As Al noted recently, current expectations of "E-ticket" attractions are different. (Most people would not believe that both the Monorail and the Railroad were E-ticket attractions at one time.)

  3. #153

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    Re: First Look At the Blue Sky Cellar at California Adventure

    Quote Originally Posted by surffnutt3000 View Post
    * Cars Land itself - I expect this area to be terrific, but the emphasis will be on the Radiator Springs Racers attraction, something I noted in my previous post. Rock formations??? Other than it being one part of the overall look, not impressed. There are rock formations in front of Tomorrowland, and most of us are awaiting the day they're removed. A barrier between the park and the real world??? For DCA, it's about time.
    Do you really think that rock formations in a desert land are only useful as a barrier? Have you ever been to a desert in the south west? Mountains and rocks are integral. If Cars Land didn't have rocks, I'd be very worried. This has nothing to do with the botch rock job in Tomorrowland.

  4. #154

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    Re: First Look At the Blue Sky Cellar at California Adventure

    Quote Originally Posted by surffnutt3000 View Post
    It will (hopefully) be an E-ticket in the earlier sense of the term. As Al noted recently, current expectations of "E-ticket" attractions are different. (Most people would not believe that both the Monorail and the Railroad were E-ticket attractions at one time.)
    Even Disney hasn't been saying "E-Ticket" for TLM, they just say a very nice D-Ticket.

  5. #155

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    Re: First Look At the Blue Sky Cellar at California Adventure

    Quote Originally Posted by Aladdin View Post
    Even Disney hasn't been saying "E-Ticket" for TLM, they just say a very nice D-Ticket.
    Because Disney knows that most average guests think an E-Ticket is something like Space or Splash Mountain.

  6. #156

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    Re: First Look At the Blue Sky Cellar at California Adventure

    Yeah, but most people hear "E ticket" and think "thrill ride", so I can see why they wouldn't want to call TLM an E ticket.

    Edit: Hi Luke, you type faster than me!
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  7. #157

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    Re: First Look At the Blue Sky Cellar at California Adventure

    Quote Originally Posted by surffnutt3000 View Post
    I didn't forget those "major" elements at all......

    * The minor Cars Land attractions - I do believe the operative word here is "minor". It's O.K. to have smaller attractions along with the big, but I simply can't give them much credit for "off the shelf, but nicely themed".
    Can you tell me what makes these attractions "off the shelf"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aladdin View Post
    Even Disney hasn't been saying "E-Ticket" for TLM, they just say a very nice D-Ticket.
    Can you tell me where you heard Disney say this?

    I can tell you right now, the $120 million dollar attraction has enough goods to make this a very nice e-ticket attraction. It's going to be advertised as one, that's for sure.

  8. #158

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    Re: First Look At the Blue Sky Cellar at California Adventure

    Quote Originally Posted by Aladdin View Post
    Even Disney hasn't been saying "E-Ticket" for TLM, they just say a very nice D-Ticket.
    I actually think "The Little Mermaid" attraction will be the best surprise to come out of the makeover. It looks like a classic Disney attraction in every respect - from storytelling to extensive use of Audio-Animatronics. I only wish it wasn't three years away!
    Last edited by surffnutt3000; 10-19-2008 at 08:21 PM.

  9. #159

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    Re: First Look At the Blue Sky Cellar at California Adventure

    Quote Originally Posted by EmeralineDragon View Post
    Yeah, but most people hear "E ticket" and think "thrill ride", so I can see why they wouldn't want to call TLM an E ticket.

    Edit: Hi Luke, you type faster than me!
    No, most people would also include Pirates and Haunted Mansion.

  10. #160

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    Re: First Look At the Blue Sky Cellar at California Adventure

    Quote Originally Posted by flynnibus View Post
    Well I think the idea of having such games as part the attractions is a total waste anyways. Have that be some part of the environment, be it sounds, sights, smells, have it AAs playing the games... but I don't see guests ever playing these in ways that don't make them seem like the empty game stalls they have always looked like.
    Well then you are likely as thrilled as I am at the notion that the games dominate not only concept art but a substantial section of the models as well as a spot in the movie.

    Yes, and you are also using hindsight to focus on things that did make it to the final result, and not the countless elements that did not. I never said the concepts were 100% off - you just can't read between every line and hold that as a comparison when the product is complete. It's just not the intended use.

    Of course - especially when one is looking at MATURE material. But you can't hold all concept art to the same standard - especially when its material shown to you as an early phase. The art is almost always going to have key elements that do stick and are common - those tend to be the elements that have already been decided But many other elements may just be artistic freedom, or even undecided concepts. I don't see why anyone would consider comparing the result to the early concept art and try to grade the success of project based on that art. The art is usually a visualization of ideas - not necessarily plans that have yet to even be reviewed to see if they were even possible.
    Call me naive but I am fairly confident anything that is being displayed for the public in this fashion has met the approval of multiple individuals. You could also toss a little Darwin in here and say that anything not cut is generally built upon in follow concept art and later models. The indecision of which Mickey to use on the wheel is evident when you toggle between concept art, model, and film! That is essentially what I was doing with TLM, and then they showed the model (which generally follows the concept art) and you could glean at least one scene that appears to have made it.

    Disney wasn't snooping for AP approval when they do AP-previews for new attractions - they are stroking the AP base.
    And in stoking that base they are expecting feedback. Since the AP community as a whole has been home to some of the harshest critics... even a moot comment can be seen as positive.

    So even by that math - that is at least 8+ iterations of this showcase. That's a ton of work and material. I think you'll see smaller elements traded out all the time, but the large elements (like the model and movie) are going to be much longer tenants.

    That again assumes you are laying out a specific preview, a guide of what is happening.. which they aren't really. I bet you find entire concepts in there eventually that never happen period.
    We have no guarantee that anything will be swapped out, or maintained. At this point we don't even know what is real and what is merely concept. However in the haste to present a preview, they showed a hodge podge of everything.

    I think that is going to be hard to do in the local vicinity of the attraction given the emphasis and prominence given to the launch Much of the visuals given to Screamin' were to give the effect at a distance. I think that can be further expanded up.
    tsk tsk tsk... Flynn as an "East Coaster" who is extremely familiar with Boardwalks I am EXTREMELY disappointed in this statement. The answer to this quandary lies in history, or more specifically aeronautical history.

    Challenge: Link a modern coaster launch to a Victorian Themed time
    Solution: Wright Brothers counter-weight catapult system utilized to launch the Wright Brothers Flyer.

    The short version is to replace the launch sequence with an announcement that the Wright Brothers produced the launch system about to propel you in... [insert countdown here]. You could also technically add an AA that has a lever pulling action which would mimic the primitive controls of the time if you wish. Combine that with a new paint job, better queue, and ragtime soundtrack and there you go... Victorian theme to a modern coaster.

    I'll kick the soapbox over now so someone else can come up with another theme challenge.
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  11. #161

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    Re: First Look At the Blue Sky Cellar at California Adventure

    Quote Originally Posted by flynnibus View Post
    Originally Posted by techskip
    "Common sense would have been to break it up a land at a time... show people the little models and all the various concepts (which would be varied) and let everyone dream"

    That again assumes you are laying out a specific preview, a guide of what is happening.. which they aren't really. I bet you find entire concepts in there eventually that never happen period.

    While the theme of the Preview Center is "Blue Sky", it IS a PREVIEW center. For the most part, everything there is intended to indicate what they are going to build. While they may have some earlier art, it leads towards what they are actually building. If ANYTHING is there that doesn't eventually get built at least close to the artwork or models, then that would indicate that there have been some cutbacks AFTER the preview center was opened.

  12. #162

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    Re: First Look At the Blue Sky Cellar at California Adventure

    Quote Originally Posted by Luke Manning View Post
    Because Disney knows that most average guests think an E-Ticket is something like Space or Splash Mountain.
    Maybe this is the time to say that an E ticket is also Tiki Room, Haunted Mansion, and POTC.

    I highly doubt that they call those very nice D-Tickets.
    Friend walks into line of The Many Adventures of Winnie the Pooh-
    "Come on, Let's go see Country Bear- .......Oh."
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  13. #163

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    Re: First Look At the Blue Sky Cellar at California Adventure

    Quote Originally Posted by bfdf55 View Post
    While the theme of the Preview Center is "Blue Sky", it IS a PREVIEW center. For the most part, everything there is intended to indicate what they are going to build. While they may have some earlier art, it leads towards what they are actually building. If ANYTHING is there that doesn't eventually get built at least close to the artwork or models, then that would indicate that there have been some cutbacks AFTER the preview center was opened.
    That's simply not true. They show at least three different ideas for the orange retheme, are they not building two of them because of budget cuts? They are adding the sun detail to Screamin' to replace the Mickey that's not shown on the model. Which is a dispcrepancy that would increase the budget.

    They are clearly showing the things that are going to actually be under construction just before they go under construction so that what they're showing in more detail will be very close to the real thing. They also pretty clearly labled things telling if they were more conceptual and saying a coming this spring for the things that are starting now and saying more to come soon in the preview center about TLM, and the MM retheme.
    The Mickey audience is not made up of people; it has no racial, national, political, religious or social differences or affiliations; the Mickey audience is made up of parts of people, of that deathless, precious, ageless, absolutely primitive remnant of something in every world-wracked human being which makes us play with children’s toys and laugh without self-consciousness at silly things, and sing in bathtubs, and dream and believe that our babies are uniquely beautiful. You know…the Mickey in us.
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  14. #164

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    Re: First Look At the Blue Sky Cellar at California Adventure

    You know, I never really knew why there is such a big fit about the old entryway.

    Sure, make the sun bigger, less stucco, more detail.

    But really, the murals are so beautiful and everyone I'm with when I go agrees. The music is one of the best parts of the entire park for me. The sun fountain is probably one of the most gorgeous of Disney's modern art fountains, though it should have been a ton larger.

    Really, I don't want to see another main street stylistic street, one is enough and I have it at Disneyland. I've always loved this plaza.
    Friend walks into line of The Many Adventures of Winnie the Pooh-
    "Come on, Let's go see Country Bear- .......Oh."
    -August 1st 2010

    And this elevator traverls directly to The Twilight Zone The Gift Shop!
    -August 2nd 2010

  15. #165

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    Re: First Look At the Blue Sky Cellar at California Adventure

    Regardless of what hardcore fans define as an E-ticket or what actually took and E-ticket back in the day, the term E-ticket has taken on a slang meaning amongst much of the public to mean a wild or thrill ride. This is why there are probably some who are apprehensive at Disney about calling it an E ticket.
    The Mickey audience is not made up of people; it has no racial, national, political, religious or social differences or affiliations; the Mickey audience is made up of parts of people, of that deathless, precious, ageless, absolutely primitive remnant of something in every world-wracked human being which makes us play with children’s toys and laugh without self-consciousness at silly things, and sing in bathtubs, and dream and believe that our babies are uniquely beautiful. You know…the Mickey in us.
    -Walt Disney

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