First Look At the Blue Sky Cellar at California Adventure

[Uncle Bob]

The existing entrance is aweful, and nobody I've even been with has liked those murals. I think they're hideous. Bring on Buena Vista St! It can't come soon enough.

[Datameister]

Originally Posted by Walt Jr.

You know, I never really knew why there is such a big fit about the old entryway.

Sure, make the sun bigger, less stucco, more detail.

But really, the murals are so beautiful and everyone I'm with when I go agrees. The music is one of the best parts of the entire park for me. The sun fountain is probably one of the most gorgeous of Disney's modern art fountains, though it should have been a ton larger.

Really, I don't want to see another main street stylistic street, one is enough and I have it at Disneyland. I've always loved this plaza.

You're suggesting that the mission-style architecture of the new entrance should be mixed with the very modern murals and fountain? (Which, by the way, everyone I'm with agrees are quite ugly.)

[Walt Jr.]

Originally Posted by Uncle Bob

The existing entrance is aweful, and nobody I've even been with has liked those murals. I think they're hideous. Bring on Buena Vista St! It can't come soon enough.

Well I am in the minority who likes it, and no, its not a DoM.

Originally Posted by Datameister

You're suggesting that the mission-style architecture of the new entrance should be mixed with the very modern murals and fountain? (Which, by the way, everyone I'm with agrees are quite ugly.)

Absolutely not. I am just saying that I love the current entry way.

[midlockland]

i think the games of the midway have the potential to be something very cool. while the games themselves look to be standard carnival money pits with a disney theme, the difference could be the prizes.

pixar has an awesome, yet small, company store at their studio. besides the standard clothing items with their logo, they always have plush toys and dolls from their shorts that can only be bought in emeryville.

if the midway games have unique items from disney and pixar that can not be bought on main street (pins, toys, etc..) i have a feeling like many people will be reaching for their wallets in paradise peir.

[Coheteboy]

Originally Posted by DisneyIPresume

Can you guys please stop using the term "E Ticket"?

No. And I'll tell you why.

Though the actual useage of these tickets have been abandoned, the terminology has transcended into pop culture lexicon when it comes to theme park speak or any experience that involves a goal of wowing the audience.

WDI continues to use terminology like E-Ticket or D-Ticket when they are proposing these rides. That's how they can ask for a certain budget, that's how they can tell marketing just what to tell the guest. If they're building an A-Ticket, they need to know that so that the guest is not mis-informed, thinking that it's an E-Ticket attraction.

Radiator Springs Racers is clearly an E-Ticket attraction. Little Mermaid, during its production has always been classified as a D-Ticket. Even Bob Weiss in a presentation to cast members had it on the slide. Al Lutz has recently mentioned though that the ride will be impressive on the Haunted Mansion scale... so we're in for a quality E-Ticket experience even though in these days, it may only be a D-Ticket.


Whatever it ends up being, knowing what ticket classification certainly helps us with our expectations of things and it also helps clarifying just what kind of ride something will be.

[flynnibus]

Originally Posted by techskip

Well then you are likely as thrilled as I am at the notion that the games dominate not only concept art but a substantial section of the models as well as a spot in the movie.

I can't complain they dedicate a portion of the exhibit and movie to elements they've obviously commited to... just that I don't like the concept period. I do not think guests will pay to play these carnival games. Now if they integrated some of these games as part of a preshow, queue, etc to help build the atmosphere, I think that would be an interesting spin to try to pull off.. but walk up and pay $4 to play a horse game? Parents aren't going to do that often.

Originally Posted by techskip

Call me naive but I am fairly confident anything that is being displayed for the public in this fashion has met the approval of multiple individuals.

Yes, but you were also focusing on portions that aren't the main point of the piece. You're off on the fringes trying to interpret what it means by the lack of detail shown on something in the background, etc.

Originally Posted by techskip

And in stoking that base they are expecting feedback. Since the AP community as a whole has been home to some of the harshest critics... even a moot comment can be seen as positive.

Sure they want feedback - as they always do - but I doubt they put anyone on a pedestal. If anything, they probably classify the AP feedback differently because of the skew. They also gather feedback once the attraction is open and complete! This isn't a trial run to decide if they should trash what they got and start over.

Originally Posted by techskip

We have no guarantee that anything will be swapped out, or maintained.

We could all die in a cataclysmic asteroid strike tomorrow too... What we do know is this project is slated for years, and every source, including Disney itself has been saying the exhibit will be a rotating one. This one is here for the long haul.

Originally Posted by techskip

tsk tsk tsk... Flynn as an "East Coaster" who is extremely familiar with Boardwalks I am EXTREMELY disappointed in this statement. The answer to this quandary lies in history, or more specifically aeronautical history.

An interesting spin - but the coaster is way too modern in its ride layout and experience to pull the effect off up close I think. A modern version of a classic could be done - but Screamin' ain't it. Screamin' was set as a backdrop for that part of the park, focus on letting it serve that role in the best way possible.

Originally Posted by bfdf55

If ANYTHING is there that doesn't eventually get built at least close to the artwork or models, then that would indicate that there have been some cutbacks AFTER the preview center was opened.

Cutbacks or CHANGES? Many of these projects are several years off with many reviews left to go. Plus, as I said before, what was put in the preview center was not necessarily the 'latest and greatest' the day the place opened. As you all have seen, there are several iterations of ideas in the exhibit itself. Things will morph, from both changes, and in the move from visualizations to practice.

[techskip]

Originally Posted by flynnibus

I can't complain they dedicate a portion of the exhibit and movie to elements they've obviously commited to... just that I don't like the concept period. I do not think guests will pay to play these carnival games. Now if they integrated some of these games as part of a preshow, queue, etc to help build the atmosphere, I think that would be an interesting spin to try to pull off.. but walk up and pay $4 to play a horse game? Parents aren't going to do that often.

True, parents will not do that often, but on the bright side you get models, a wall of concept art, and part of a movie dedicated to what parents won't pay to play.

Yes, but you were also focusing on portions that aren't the main point of the piece. You're off on the fringes trying to interpret what it means by the lack of detail shown on something in the background, etc.

Actually I was focusing on the overall instead of specific highlights. The model in the center was that of Paradise Pier, in fact all models in there were of Paradise Pier except a small one tucked in the exit corner which was of the trolley. The majority of the concept art was also of Paradise Pier. This would indicate that the "theme" of this portion of the Blue Sky Cellar was... drumroll please... Paradise Pier. You could argue that the additional concepts and model were in place due to a lack of changes in Paradise Pier, but then you would be neglecting Screamin, Jellyfish, Zephyr and Carousel. The counter-argument would then be "well they wanted to show major changes and refurbishments"... ok I'll buy that... then where's Sky School? More important if it is a preview center... let me stress this a PREVIEW center... then wouldn't the model, movie section, and concept art of TSMM be a post view and therefore out of place? At the very least shouldn't the TSMM material be used as filler material to support the Paradise Pier theme? And why would they give precedence to games and an open attraction instead of showcasing an upcoming preview of a remodeled attraction? I am eagerly awaiting the next exhibit which will likely carry a specific theme. I'm sure Disney will cover Sky School in detail when they show off Carsland

Sure they want feedback - as they always do - but I doubt they put anyone on a pedestal. If anything, they probably classify the AP feedback differently because of the skew. They also gather feedback once the attraction is open and complete! This isn't a trial run to decide if they should trash what they got and start over.

They would obviously classify it differently. I'd say two or three positive bumps up... so if the comment is average then it will likely blow away a visiting Guest. The Previews serve three purposes; a soft opening, a chance to show off to some of the harshest critics, and free advertising as AP's are a chatty bunch and will tell their friends what they saw. The perceived exclusiveness could also be seen as a justification for an individual to buy an AP but I have yet to hear of someone buying an AP just for a chance to attend a specific preview

What we do know is this project is slated for years, and every source, including Disney itself has been saying the exhibit will be a rotating one. This one is here for the long haul.

Please remind me... how long was Light Magic slated for? How many Indy decoder cards were supposed to be in the set? For that matter wasn't Main Street Electrical Parade retired and it's light bulbs sold off? Or we could talk about Rocket Rods and the "soon to reopen" sign that was placed in front of it.

An interesting spin - but the coaster is way too modern in its ride layout and experience to pull the effect off up close I think. A modern version of a classic could be done - but Screamin' ain't it. Screamin' was set as a backdrop for that part of the park, focus on letting it serve that role in the best way possible.

The coaster appears modern, and the majority of that is due to the design and paint job on the cars. A TSMM style painjob with paneling and pinstripe details would do wonders to enhance the "vintage" look. Victorian was all about the details. Paint the cars, retheme the queue, add in that AA I talked about with the new countdown and the ragtime soundtrack and you have a "vintage" coaster. Ask people what they think sets TSMM in the Victorian era, I doubt anyone will say the modern computer graphics and 4D screen and effects found inside.

Cutbacks or CHANGES? Many of these projects are several years off with many reviews left to go. Plus, as I said before, what was put in the preview center was not necessarily the 'latest and greatest' the day the place opened. As you all have seen, there are several iterations of ideas in the exhibit itself. Things will morph, from both changes, and in the move from visualizations to practice.

I underlined that part for a reason. If there are several versions of an idea, then there should be similarities as well as differences. One could argue that these similarities are likely going to be in the final version... and what is different between the artworks may not be... SO... once again the devil is in the details! You can make fun of me for noticing, but as I said the exact same pattern can be seen in the concept art for just about everything dating back to the concepts of Disneyland itself... or maybe they just decided to put a train around the park at the last minute and it being in ALL of the concepts was a coincidence!

[bfdf55]

Originally Posted by Uncle Bob

Originally Posted by bfdf55
"While the theme of the Preview Center is "Blue Sky", it IS a PREVIEW center. For the most part, everything there is intended to indicate what they are going to build. While they may have some earlier art, it leads towards what they are actually building. If ANYTHING is there that doesn't eventually get built at least close to the artwork or models, then that would indicate that there have been some cutbacks AFTER the preview center was opened."


That's simply not true. They show at least three different ideas for the orange retheme, are they not building two of them because of budget cuts? They are adding the sun detail to Screamin' to replace the Mickey that's not shown on the model. Which is a dispcrepancy that would increase the budget.

They are clearly showing the things that are going to actually be under construction just before they go under construction so that what they're showing in more detail will be very close to the real thing. They also pretty clearly labled things telling if they were more conceptual and saying a coming this spring for the things that are starting now and saying more to come soon in the preview center about TLM, and the MM retheme.

I said: “While they may have some earlier art, it leads towards what they are actually building.” The versions that lead up to the final concept are part of the exhibit.

As an aside on the orange retheme, the cyclone graphics they indicate for the central column will most likely change because the graphic they show won’t work on a cylindrical object. That will have to be dealt with once they get someone to work on it that understands 3D, not just flat graphics.

[bfdf55]

Originally Posted by Uncle Bob

Regardless of what hardcore fans define as an E-ticket or what actually took and E-ticket back in the day, the term E-ticket has taken on a slang meaning amongst much of the public to mean a wild or thrill ride. This is why there are probably some who are apprehensive at Disney about calling it an E ticket.

Well, while some people may have put that connotation on the E-Ticket, in Disney parlance, it indicates a TOP LEVEL attraction that requires the highest ticket price. And that does NOT always mean a thrill ride. So, it’s best to look at an E-Ticket attraction as one that will showcase an highly entertaining experience, thrill or not.

[Sir Didymus]

I visited the cellar on monday (it's first official day open), and received this nifty button:



Anybody else get one?

[Wally]

Originally Posted by techskip

The exhibit will be going for a few years but it isn't a daily or monthly change out. From what Al has described (which appears accurate given my sources as well) you are looking at six month change overs. So anything out there will be out there a minimum of four or five months, possibly longer depending on changes. Common sense would have been to break it up a land at a time... show people the little models and all the various concepts (which would be varied) and let everyone dream. Instead we have a current attraction, and a bunch of games that we will have to pay to play.

There is reason for this. The main area of the cellar is of basically what is coming next. The walls and outer areas are reserved for things further down the road and get much less attention.
TSM gets a showcase because it unofficially is the start of the revival of the park. Sure, it's not part of the renovation, but it was the start of things heading in the right direction.
The Games of the Boardwalk get a whole section because they are being done soon. That's also why the Sun Wheel is featured so heavily. Those 2 projects are the first of what is happening, and most likely will be the only big projects heavily in construction during this first changeout of the Cellar since they will be done in the next few months.
The NEXT time the Cellar has a changeout will feature stuff further down the development path. The Games and the Sun Wheel are merely getting the spotlight now because they will be the 1st of the facelift of the park.

[Wally]

Originally Posted by Sir Didymus

I visited the cellar on monday (it's first official day open), and received this nifty button:



Anybody else get one?

No. But I sure want one. COOL!

[wettham1783]

Originally Posted by glendalais89

I would agree with you, except for one thing...

Anyone else notice the similarities here?





It seems that Management is intent on turning DCA into DHH West. *sigh*

That's exactly what I thought, nothing like a clone of an entrance to a mediocre theme park.

[Imagineerfan]

Originally Posted by wettham1783

That's exactly what I thought, nothing like a clone of an entrance to a mediocre theme park.

To me, this is completely fine for the following 3 reasons.

1. The new turnstiles are theme appropriate. The design is based on the Pan Pacific Theater which was a long time Southern California icon and sadly burned down and is no longer with us.
2. The new turnstiles are period appropriate. I will agree that the new turnstiles give the new entrance a juxtoposition of styles between the Art Deco style of the new turnstiles to the Mission architecture of the rest of Buena Vista Street. However, the early to mid 20's when Walt arrived in Los Angeles is the time period in which Art Deco was beginning to become in vogue with newer building being built in this style. Although the actual Pan Pacific Theater was built over a decade later, Art Deco buildings did exist and were being built in L.A. at the time of Walt's arrival. I also believe based on some of the artwork that there will also be another Art Deco themed facade in the hub area across the circle from the Crthay Circle Theater.
3. Given the above 2 items, which meet the requirement of theme appropriate, the blueprints are largely complete which allows WDI to put their time, effort, and budget elsewhere.

Given that, I don't have an issue with getting cloned turnstiles. One could even argue they fit much better at DCA than DHS given their stong historical ties to Southern California.

[lazyboy97O]

Anybody notice though that the turnstiles for California Adventure only say, "California Adventure"? No "Disney's" on there.