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  1. #106

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    Re: First Look At the Blue Sky Cellar at California Adventure

    Hmmmm. I'm torn between absolute joy at seeing so many good things and absolute fear that the California theme is going to be lost forever.

    California is a very versatile theme, in my opinion. The whole 'you're already at CA' doesn't really cut it for me. If it's good, then people will come.

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  2. #107

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    Re: First Look At the Blue Sky Cellar at California Adventure

    Quote Originally Posted by Luke Manning View Post
    Cars Land is related in the fact that it stems off the whole Route 66 type theming.
    But Radiator Springs is more closely linked to Arizona than to California. It was never intended to be a celebration of California by any stretch of the imagination.

    TLM is related because they used to have very similar style dark rides (on a MUCH less grand scale) at old seaside amusement parks.
    Here are a few other rides you can find in California: the Matterhorn, the unthemed but enjoyable Top Gun coaster at Great America, the Universal Studios tram tour, and the Pharaoh's Revenge at Legoland. Would homages to all of these be appropriate in DCA?

    A lot can be found in California that doesn't support an homage to what the state is and has been. A lot can be found outside California that seems "close enough." Neither, if you ask me, has any place in a park that purports to celebrate California in the name of Disney.


  3. #108

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    Re: First Look At the Blue Sky Cellar at California Adventure

    Thoughts on Condor Flats...

    What the happened to the Condor Flats area? It has Soarin' a gift shop, a restroom that is the same size as the giftshop, and a diner. Oh... almost forgot they have a couple ODV carts and a few props. THAT'S IT. Talk about "un-Disney"... if a kid doesn't meet the height requirement then they have a great time WALKING through it. That's the sad part. Kid's dream of flying, they flock to anything that gives them the chance to be a pilot. Look at Dumbo, or Astro, or Pan, or Flick's... look at Red Baron at Knott's, or the dinky airport one at Adventure City. One of the greatest themes that directly connects to children has been completely overlooked.

    With minor modifications the Jellies can become parachute training. With a bit of imagination they could easily build a kid's plane ride and call that Goofy's Sky School... which would fit. I posted pics a while back of a design currently at Adventure City which lets the parent fly in a plane with the kid... that's the Disney philosophy right there. With just those two additions you would triple the attractions in Condor Flats and give kids an alternative. Instead, it's overlooked. So for starters that's an area that could be plussed without much effort.
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  4. #109

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    Re: First Look At the Blue Sky Cellar at California Adventure

    what other rides are going to be in carsland? from the one view I saw in a photo.. it looked like the crappy little rides that are in WDS in Paris.. and I didn't really see any of the scenes from radiator springs either. Anyone have some good close ups of that part of the map? What else is supposed to be there besides the test track ride?
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  5. #110

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    Re: First Look At the Blue Sky Cellar at California Adventure

    Quote Originally Posted by flynnibus View Post
    What else is supposed to be there besides the test track ride?
    If they follow the current DCA model seen in Hollywood, Golden State, and Condor then that's it... one large ride and possibly a couple little things and an ODV cart!
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  6. #111

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    Re: First Look At the Blue Sky Cellar at California Adventure

    Quote Originally Posted by techskip View Post
    If they follow the current DCA model seen in Hollywood, Golden State, and Condor then that's it... one large ride and possibly a couple little things and an ODV cart!
    Um, Hollywood Pictures Backlot has Playhouse Disney, Disney Animation, the Hyperion, Tower of Terror, Muppets, & Monsters. I don't think that follows the model you speak of.

  7. #112

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    Re: First Look At the Blue Sky Cellar at California Adventure

    Quote Originally Posted by Luke Manning View Post
    Um, Hollywood Pictures Backlot has Playhouse Disney, Disney Animation, the Hyperion, Tower of Terror, Muppets, & Monsters. I don't think that follows the model you speak of.
    Let's Look;

    • HTH- "E" ticket attraction
    • Hyperion- Show
    • Disney Animation- Show
    • Playhouse Disney- Show
    • Muppets- Show
    • Monsters- Dark Ride

    So... 4 shows and 2 actual attractions (1 for adults mainly and one for little kids) I'd say I described it pretty accurately. Let's Look at Golden State

    • GRR- "E" ticket
    • Redwood Creek Challenge Trail - activity area/show

    Umm... looks like it fits that description. How about Condor Flats

    • Soarin'- "E" Ticket

    fits again... in fact the only spots that actually have a lot of attractions are Bugsland and the Pier! Think about it.
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  8. #113

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    Re: First Look At the Blue Sky Cellar at California Adventure

    Quote Originally Posted by techskip View Post
    Let's Look;

    • HTH- "E" ticket attraction
    • Hyperion- Show
    • Disney Animation- Show
    • Playhouse Disney- Show
    • Muppets- Show
    • Monsters- Dark Ride
    So... 4 shows and 2 actual attractions (1 for adults mainly and one for little kids) I'd say I described it pretty accurately. Let's Look at Golden State

    • GRR- "E" ticket
    • Redwood Creek Challenge Trail - activity area/show
    Umm... looks like it fits that description. How about Condor Flats

    • Soarin'- "E" Ticket
    fits again... in fact the only spots that actually have a lot of attractions are Bugsland and the Pier! Think about it.
    Technically BL, CF, GR, Bay Area, Napa and the wharf are all one land, Golden State. So that's how they justify that. Why you'd ever think that mess is one land though, especially when it all has separate names is beyond me, but that's how it is. Also, the park has been very light on rides and heavy on shows, even after this remodel, the park will still be light on rides.
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  9. #114

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    Re: First Look At the Blue Sky Cellar at California Adventure

    Can you guys please stop using the term "E Ticket"?

    Let's instead concentrate on putting in good quality rides that contribute to the theme of an area. The red car trolleys are not going to particularly offer high-class thrill, but their mere existence is going to do wonders to the overall theme of Buena Vista Street and HPB. Over in DL the horse drawn trolleys only took an A ticket, but removing those would be disastrous to Main Street's theme.

    I think an abolition of the term "E Ticket" and the idea behind that term is required to see what is happening to DCA on a larger scale. It forces a person to not concentrate on a specific ride, but on the total experience -- something DCA severely lacks.

  10. #115

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    Re: First Look At the Blue Sky Cellar at California Adventure

    Quote Originally Posted by DisneyIPresume View Post
    Can you guys please stop using the term "E Ticket"?

    Let's instead concentrate on putting in good quality rides that contribute to the theme of an area. The red car trolleys are not going to particularly offer high-class thrill, but their mere existence is going to do wonders to the overall theme of Buena Vista Street and HPB. Over in DL the horse drawn trolleys only took an A ticket, but removing those would be disastrous to Main Street's theme.

    I think an abolition of the term "E Ticket" and the idea behind that term is required to see what is happening to DCA on a larger scale. It forces a person to not concentrate on a specific ride, but on the total experience -- something DCA severely lacks.
    I don't care if it's an "A" or an "E" the point remains... a lot to see not a whole lot to do. Disneyland has a similar concept but at least there is a lot more to do there!
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  11. #116

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    Re: First Look At the Blue Sky Cellar at California Adventure

    Quote Originally Posted by Datameister View Post
    Disney's never been perfect, but when I consider that Pirates, the Haunted Mansion, It's a Small World, Space Mountain, and Big Thunder Mountain all opened within just over a decade...well, those are big footsteps to follow. And Disney doesn't seem to be quite done playing the rebellious adolescent, though very significant improvement has been made.

    Much of that is due to the fact that, while WDI’s upper management went through some serious changes, most everyone in their lower echelons still have the power and control that they had under the former management. That means that those who designed the questionable attractions of the recent past are the ones doing the (questionable?) attractions of the future.

    That in no way means that everything coming out of WDI will be of similar poor quality. Some projects are being done by Imagineers that have the ability to put out some extremely well designed attractions. But they cannot be on every project.

    The creative shakeup they went through a couple of years has apparently done little to significantly change the pecking order at Imagineering.

  12. #117

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    Re: First Look At the Blue Sky Cellar at California Adventure

    Quote Originally Posted by Coheteboy View Post
    I know this has bothered many in WDI as well. But ultimately... how else could they have done it? I guess re-routing the monorail was out of the question considering all the problems they've been having with it.

    This i guess is the best middle ground. You don't see the monorail all that often so what you DO see there most of the time is a bridge in grand Los Angeles fashion.

    I can ignore that. I have bigger fish...er... BUGS to fry.

    I believe that there was a concept that actually re-routed the Monorail out of that area down to the south, running over the lagoon, through Bugs Land and up in front of Hyperion Theater. Of course, even that would still be a problem fitting in with ANYTHING in the “new” DCA’s era themes. It would have a much more interesting ride though.

  13. #118

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    Re: First Look At the Blue Sky Cellar at California Adventure

    I had a chance to actually look at the Blue Sky Cellar today. It's interesting, but overall I really wasn't overly impressed. I personally feel the movie is well crafted to pick and chose specific points, while avoiding the majority of the project. It's more or less a political piece which paints a rosy picture but fails to give more then an appetizer of what's to come.

    Examining the model (which given the parachute drop may or may not be accurate) reveals that Screamin' will either have an enclosed queue, or no queue. The rocks look nice. When we later walked over to look at the current rock jetti, the concept looked that much better. The current version is sad... literally sad... so the addition of the rockwork will do wonders just from an aesthetic standpoint. King Triton's will be a fully enclosed carousel which is eerily reminiscent of the Looff carousel that was once a staple of Shoreline Village in Long Beach. Screamin' may also have a new color scheme, as the trains all appeared the same color, but that may have been an oversight due to scale. Likewise the tubes were missing (but visible in all concept drawings).. The Sun Wheel appears to be getting a new color scheme, with yellow, red, and orange colored cars.

    They had a small portion of the movie dedicated to the swings. After looking at everything I decided to look at the current swings and realized quickly... the new swings are little more then a new queue, a new paint job, and the orange peel removed. I also fail to understand why they will have a conductor Mickey on top of the entire thing when no one will be able to see him. I think it would make more sense to have a clear top piece of the telescope with Mickey, fully animated, inside.

    They also dedicated a large portion of the film to the Little Mermaid, using this as the main carrot to entice the crowd to willingly accept all other changes. LM is essentially a happy version of the Haunted Mansion, complete with the old omnimover shells and AA's sprinkled everywhere. One could argue that it is well thought out, and it is, but that credit goes to the movies director more then the copy cat fashion portrayed in the film. This is to literally be a retelling of the movie. About the only silver lining I see in this, is the architecture of the building which according to the concept drawings will be similar to dance halls of the time. This would make sense given the musical numbers being played inside.

    Goofy's Sky School was limited to a small section of a small drawing board. It is very obvious that this is one change WDI hopes everyone will ignore. Because it is a change it was lumped in with everything else, but unless you specifically looked for it you wouldn't know it. This honestly concerns me because the one concept drawing, which is also shown on the thread, just showed MM with it's current facade removed and a couple buildings tossed in front of it. The vehicles appeared the same, but no close ups or concept drawings of them. It was literally a small drawing, and Goofy in an airplane on the map! I did make several inquries about this attraction, but each CM directed me back to that sad drawing. It was pretty obvious that WDI hoped everyone simply overlooked this.

    To show how much WDI hoped Goofy was overlooked, they had the Toy Story vehicles, and the new Boardwalk Games on display, front and center. That's right, WDI is proudly showing off new games while ignoring an attraction. To give credit the games appear very well adapted. The only one I am questioning is Goofy's fly fishing because I'd rather it be a secondary character. They are using "Casey at Bat" (pitching game), "Dumbo's Bucket Brigade" (using the clowns climbing a ladder and a water gun) and Bullseye racing as the other 3 games.

    World of Color will essentially be a combination of Fantasmic 2.0 and a standard Vegas water show. They are desperately trying to hype it up, but it looks like standard mist screen projections and jets of water spraying everywhere, all to choreographed music.

    I know a lot of people will say "Goofy's Sky School is temporary" and my biggest fear is that it will show. WDI is already trying desperately to hide it, and that may indicate a lack of creativity and effort. Likely it is the "punishment" assignment given to those who they probably already planned on pink slipping. Which, oddly, may mean that it could end up worse then it already is. It used to be that the greatest challenge was presented to those with the greatest skill to ensure that the work was up to Disney's standards. Now, the impression is that the choice assignments are the ones that Disney knows no one can screw up!
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  14. #119

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    Re: First Look At the Blue Sky Cellar at California Adventure

    The more I am hearing about the "new DCA" the less I hear about California.... The only tangible evidence that there is any connection is that DCA's main street is "walt's LA". Is everybody even entirely sure that the California Idea is going to be staying with this park, or is it possible they will be dropping it in favor of something that would pull all of this lands together more effictively, like I dont know Disney's Land... 2.0ish

  15. #120

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    Re: First Look At the Blue Sky Cellar at California Adventure

    I think in short.. we must remember this is a sprucing up a park - not an entirely new park.

    and the preview center is just that... a preview.. not a 2012 official guide book

    The point that if the LM is just going to be a retelling of the movie's plot.. that is going to be a huge negative IMO. I mentioned this before the subs reopened, and they did exactly the same thing.. try to tell the movie again. At least in the LM they are not trying to shoe-horn a story into an environment that didn't fit that story at all to start... but I still think this is a huge mistake. People already know the story well.. they'll be bored if you just want to retell it again.

    A ride like Peter Pan's flight takes the movie elements and immerses you in it, but doesn't force you through the movie's plot. It's more of immersing you in scenes you are familar with. Contrast this with Nemo which with the continuous voice track, basically leads you through the same plot as the movie. It's not 'stumbling upon' elements you are familiar with.

    I hope they don't follow the same trap that makes Nemo such a bore. Even the LM show in DHS or the Nemo musical puts new twists on things that makes the show it's own story to enjoy. Lets hope the LM attraction has enough character of its own!
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