First Look At the Blue Sky Cellar at California Adventure

[techskip]

I studied the LM concept drawings and paid extremely close attention to the movie. It is literally movie scene after movie scene that you roll by in a clam shell. I did a double take a few times because I wanted to make sure they weren't just recycling the old storyboards from when LM was made (they looked nearly identical). I know I know, wait until it comes out to pass judgement... but if it follows the movie to a T I won't be shocked.

[techskip]

I also want to say that the scale Steve and I developed for the trolley's was spot on! Literally... they are looking at 10ft x 8ft x 25ft! THAT concept drawing made me smile more then anything else in there. Which reminds me I specifically saw the words "Pacific Electric" on a booth (which looked like the info booth actually) in a concept. The name is obvious enough but are they planning on having a sponsor for the trolley?

Then again the large concept of Paradise Pier also has a movie theater (look in the center... nice to see the Majestic is still on a lot of people's minds). In the end a concept is exactly that, a concept, and the reality may or may not live up to the hype.

[Anders]

Originally Posted by techskip

I studied the LM concept drawings and paid extremely close attention to the movie. It is literally movie scene after movie scene that you roll by in a clam shell. I did a double take a few times because I wanted to make sure they weren't just recycling the old storyboards from when LM was made (they looked nearly identical). I know I know, wait until it comes out to pass judgement... but if it follows the movie to a T I won't be shocked.

I was at the Cellar Saturday and noticed somewhere in there was something like "based on the music of The Little Mermaid". We know it's going to be filled with the musical numbers, which pretty much tell the story.

[flynnibus]

Well, blue sky disney posted on some comments that ring against observations made by techskip - that don't take the model as the map of what is actually going to happen.

The model is the original one that the Imagineers used in their pitch. So not everything you see will show up in the final design... they don't call it "Blue Sky" for nothing now. I've seen many people excited about the "Green Army Men Parachute Drop," but that's not going to happen. This is from the original proposal. The current plan is to keep the Maliboomer until sometime in 2010 when the majority of the pier's construction is done. After that, some of the other plans they have for this helix could be approved, economics pending.

The exterior of the carousel is also not a go yet. If you recall an earlier post, I mentioned that WDI wanted to place an exterior that matched the TSMM attraction since the original look just sticks out so much. The approval hasn't been given yet, but depending on the budget, we may still see this or a variation of it.

As for Mickey's Fun Wheel, well you're going to be seeing what comes of it over the next few months. But when it opens in April don't expect it to look exactly like the model.

That is what the "Princess Palace" will resemble, along with a great deal of more detail around the PP area. Oh, and the games remake should start shortly. By the end of the year, there should be quit a collection of walls down in this area.

Blue Sky Disney: Model Behavior...

So remember - this a a PREVIEW center of the ideas, not the new park guide map

[techskip]

Originally Posted by flynnibus

Well, blue sky disney posted on some comments that ring against observations made by techskip - that don't take the model as the map of what is actually going to happen.

Blue Sky Disney: Model Behavior...

So remember - this a a PREVIEW center of the ideas, not the new park guide map

Flynn, what you quoted is pretty much what I said. I said the model may or may not be accurate because of the parachute... and the article confirms this isn't accurate citing the parachute... I commented on the enclosed queue for Screamin and the enclosed building for Carousel after the initial "accuracy" comment. From what was said in the article the Carousel may still get that exterior, because of the "sore thumb" effect it currently has in comparison to TSMM. As to Mickey's wheel... all concepts and everything pitched displays it as having a specific color scheme. What will be interesting is are they going with classic Mickey or modern Mickey? They have pitched both in concept drawings, even on the screen.

Bottom Line, they chose to give games and a currently open attraction (TSMM) more display space then Goofy's Sky School (which was one sad concept drawing). That alone is worry some. They also ignored Screamin, and Carousel, said nothing about Zephyer or Jellies. TLM which was a good piece of the movie had a sad little concept wall (and again they gave that plus floor space to TSMM). It was a dog and pony show. It was "Look at what we've done we're so proud of ourselves we got that TSMM right". Followed by "We'll redo all this stuff and put this new attraction in along with a couple games". And then glares if anyone asks about Goofy's Sky School... or wonders about why Zephyer and Jellies are there... or asks about Screamin... or the Carousel (which will resonate with a lot of Southern Ca residents if it has the correct architecture!)

You also see a lot of ticket booths, towers, and flags... which are plastered over all the concept drawings and were a staple of Boardwalks of the era.

[flynnibus]

My point was - don't take anything you see there as what was planned, is planned, or will be done. They are concepts and visions. Yes, there are tales to be told when you observe someone's pitches and concepts - but its all speculation at this point.. so lets keep perspective. It's fun to read between the lines... but such interpretations love to take on a life of their own in this community.

I also don't like the 'well the preview center should have been [x] or [y]' kind of talk. Remember this is not something that is required at all.. its an open door to guests to see parts of the creative process they may not normally see and to entice them with the park's 'additions'. This isn't intended to give the hard core fans the missing link they've been dying for in their fascination of the park's future. This is a bit of a lure for guests to return.. and to answer a bit for guests why their experience is taking such a serious hit over the next 4+ years. It's to smooth over guests and try to excite them with grand visions of what the future will be like.

Interpretation is fine - but lets not try to rewrite the 'fan's set of blueprints for the new DCA' based on what we see here. The point from honor hunter's blog is... you are seeing parts of the creative process - not the running status board.

[The Disneylander]

^Well said. I agree completely.

[techskip]

Originally Posted by flynnibus

My point was - don't take anything you see there as what was planned, is planned, or will be done. They are concepts and visions. Yes, there are tales to be told when you observe someone's pitches and concepts - but its all speculation at this point.. so lets keep perspective. It's fun to read between the lines... but such interpretations love to take on a life of their own in this community.

I didn't mean to possibly start threads based on conjecture.

I also don't like the 'well the preview center should have been [x] or [y]' kind of talk. Remember this is not something that is required at all.. its an open door to guests to see parts of the creative process they may not normally see and to entice them with the park's 'additions'. This isn't intended to give the hard core fans the missing link they've been dying for in their fascination of the park's future. This is a bit of a lure for guests to return.. and to answer a bit for guests why their experience is taking such a serious hit over the next 4+ years. It's to smooth over guests and try to excite them with grand visions of what the future will be like.

The annoyance stems from the willingness to show us what we have, and ignore attractions that are being plussed or overlayed. They are so willing to show us the games that people will spend money on and TSMM which is already open. That space could have gone to TLM, or Goofy, or concept drawings of Screamin and Carousel. TSMM had a wall of concept drawings PLUS the model... Games dominated several areas PLUS the model. It was the logistics and the choice of displays that prompted my underwhelming experience. With all the work going into Paradise Pier it would have been logical to devote this specifically to that. AL already stated that this is slated to be a rotating exhibit.

Interpretation is fine - but lets not try to rewrite the 'fan's set of blueprints for the new DCA' based on what we see here. The point from honor hunter's blog is... you are seeing parts of the creative process - not the running status board.

Which we all know... and when things open they will be compared to these models and concepts, not to the "running status board" so lets not loose perspective on that either. This is an unveiling, a peace offering if you will that says "hey we screwed up but give us a second chance to turn this around". As I said the current attitude towards Goofy's Sky School is worrysome. If they are simply hiding it that would be great, but if it is going to be done on the cheap in hopes of it being "temporary" and hopefully removed in the future then that could be a problem. What if it isn't removed... then we are left with a half conceived piece of crap with an equally crappy overlay.

[ROBONICS95]

Originally Posted by techskip

Bottom Line, they chose to give games and a currently open attraction (TSMM) more display space then Goofy's Sky School (which was one sad concept drawing). That alone is worry some. They also ignored Screamin, and Carousel, said nothing about Zephyer or Jellies. TLM which was a good piece of the movie had a sad little concept wall (and again they gave that plus floor space to TSMM). It was a dog and pony show. It was "Look at what we've done we're so proud of ourselves we got that TSMM right". Followed by "We'll redo all this stuff and put this new attraction in along with a couple games". And then glares if anyone asks about Goofy's Sky School... or wonders about why Zephyer and Jellies are there... or asks about Screamin... or the Carousel (which will resonate with a lot of Southern Ca residents if it has the correct architecture!)

Bottom line is that this display is not "fixed" in its current form and Disney has been pretty up front about that. I think it would be safe to assume that there will be will many variations of the "Paradise Pier" exhibit. After watching Bob Weis' introduction and tour of the Cellar, he made it very clear that what we see on display is all "Blue Sky," and then describes what, exactly, "Blue Sky" means... similar to Rafferty's explanation in the 6 minute video within the cellar itself. Weis then goes on to explain that the exhibit would be very fluid and each display would be cycled through as each project is completed and a new project is scheduled to begin. Yes, TSMM is an open attraction and we here on MC have all seen our fair share of Concept Art and know that the budget for TSMM was approved before the rest of the project was approved or announced. We have all had an opportunity to watch and share our opinions on the transition, both negative and positive. But to the average guest, this attraction is completely new, unfamiliar, and can be seen as the beginning of the "New DCA." This gives them an opportunity to see the full Blue Sky process, from concept to completion.

So, keeping into consideration Disney's explanation of how the exhibit would move in the order of the project timeline, it seems that Mickey's Fun Wheel and the Boardwalk Games are next in line for the remodel, which is what we currently see on display. Yes, there are hints of the other projects, but as you mentioned, there is an emphasis on the Boardwalk Games and Mickey's Fun Wheel. Once those projects are nearing completion, I would anticipate more concept for Goofy's Sky School, the Beer Garden, Screamin, TLM, etc. as each phase of the "Paradise Pier" remodel progresses. We caught a glimpse of TLM models in the cellar video, hopefully we can start seeing those on display in the Blue Sky Cellar.

Originally Posted by flynnibus

My point was - don't take anything you see there as what was planned, is planned, or will be done. They are concepts and visions. Yes, there are tales to be told when you observe someone's pitches and concepts - but its all speculation at this point.. so lets keep perspective. It's fun to read between the lines... but such interpretations love to take on a life of their own in this community.

I also don't like the 'well the preview center should have been [x] or [y]' kind of talk. Remember this is not something that is required at all.. its an open door to guests to see parts of the creative process they may not normally see and to entice them with the park's 'additions'. This isn't intended to give the hard core fans the missing link they've been dying for in their fascination of the park's future. This is a bit of a lure for guests to return.. and to answer a bit for guests why their experience is taking such a serious hit over the next 4+ years. It's to smooth over guests and try to excite them with grand visions of what the future will be like.

Interpretation is fine - but lets not try to rewrite the 'fan's set of blueprints for the new DCA' based on what we see here. The point from honor hunter's blog is... you are seeing parts of the creative process - not the running status board.

Great post!

[MagicWDI]

Originally Posted by ROBONICS95

So, keeping into consideration Disney's explanation of how the exhibit would move in the order of the project timeline, it seems that Mickey's Fun Wheel and the Boardwalk Games are next in line for the remodel, which is what we currently see on display. Yes, there are hints of the other projects, but as you mentioned, there is an emphasis on the Boardwalk Games and Mickey's Fun Wheel. Once those projects are nearing completion, I would anticipate more concept for Goofy's Sky School, the Beer Garden, Screamin, TLM, etc. as each phase of the "Paradise Pier" remodel progresses. We caught a glimpse of TLM models in the cellar video, hopefully we can start seeing those on display in the Blue Sky Cellar.

This is a great description of how the Cellar will work. However, even though this is a gist of what Blue Sky is, virtually all of the projects have moved on passed Blue Sky, far beyond the phase and are either at the fine tuning portion of the project, awaiting final approval, have been put on a pending list or shelved all together. However, projects that have been axes ages ago will not go on display unless another concept is taking its place, a reason other than "we wanted to move the funds to another project." Disney does not want to go too far into detail about projects that are not coming to the park in any form or variation. Those concepts will later make it into a nice book later on.

[Aladdin]

You know, when they FINALLY announce the update to Star Tours, everyone will realize how crappy and ugly Paradise Pier is (even with updates), again.

[flynnibus]

Originally Posted by techskip

I didn't mean to possibly start threads based on conjecture.

No, but both here in the other thread - you seemed to be moving onto conclusions based solely on the imagery and model presented. A dangerous area to move beyond postulation of what they were thinking at the time that piece of art or model was made. Concept art is not a blueprint.. often its just the visualization of a single person... other times when the concept is further refined, they do serve as the artistic guide in choices.. but you don't know from looking at the art presented at what stage its from.

Originally Posted by techskip

The annoyance stems from the willingness to show us what we have, and ignore attractions that are being plussed or overlayed.

Remember - they have YEARS they need to have this showroom be productive. I don't fault them at all for getting mileage out of the TSMM attraction which had become early moves towards the park's 'rev 2' so to speak. This also gives guests an idea to connect how this concept phase relates to the final product - which they can experience. Remember, for many, this showroom is not just a peak into DCA, but into Disney's creative process.

Originally Posted by techskip

They are so willing to show us the games that people will spend money on and TSMM which is already open. That space could have gone to TLM, or Goofy, or concept drawings of Screamin and Carousel. TSMM had a wall of concept drawings PLUS the model... Games dominated several areas PLUS the model. It was the logistics and the choice of displays that prompted my underwhelming experience. With all the work going into Paradise Pier it would have been logical to devote this specifically to that. AL already stated that this is slated to be a rotating exhibit.

Well - a movie doesn't climax 5 minutes in either... I wouldn't expect them to blow their wad on day 1. They have a long time to go with this exhibit.

Originally Posted by techskip

Which we all know... and when things open they will be compared to these models and concepts, not to the "running status board" so lets not loose perspective on that either. This is an unveiling, a peace offering if you will that says "hey we screwed up but give us a second chance to turn this around".

I think you are letting your hardcore fan dominate your thinking here. First, if you are going to do a side by side of concept art with final result for more then curiousity - you're going to be disappointed. I mean, we have 50 years of history to point at here, and countless volumes of released artwork to review. Concept Art does not line up to final results. If that's an expectation.. then I ask you reconsider how you felt about art before you visited this attraction.

Second, this isn't a peace offering to the mass guest - this a preview of upcoming attractions/concepts. It's marketing! Do you really think the average guest going through the turnstiles has been following the details of the DCA rev 2 press release? They may be aware of expansion plans.. but is it Disney's latest road map.. or is it fixing a screwup in their eyes?

I think fans with an expectation as yours are going to be disappointed period. This isn't a free pass to WDI to check on the status of things as repayment for screwing you over previously. This is marketing and soothing to address the fact the park will be running with major distractions and reduced attraction counts for a number of years.

Originally Posted by techskip

As I said the current attitude towards Goofy's Sky School is worrysome

And there is the underlying flaw. If you take what you saw in the exhibit as the 'current attitude', then you're taking away the wrong message.

Originally Posted by techskip

If they are simply hiding it that would be great, but if it is going to be done on the cheap in hopes of it being "temporary" and hopefully removed in the future then that could be a problem. What if it isn't removed... then we are left with a half conceived piece of crap with an equally crappy overlay.

Well you're going to have that problem in any project.. including how Disneyland was built originally. Some things are bridge, stop-gap solutions, whose future depends on factors that have not yet been decided. Very few things are done 100% for day one.

[Aladdin]

Quote:
Originally Posted by techskip
As I said the current attitude towards Goofy's Sky School is worrysome

And there is the underlying flaw. If you take what you saw in the exhibit as the 'current attitude', then you're taking away the wrong message.

Fly, obviously, there will be some changes to the proposed ideas in the preview center, and you can't get ALL the details from what is on display, BUT the preview center does and should be showing the best of what Imagineering has to offer. And that includes the makeover for Mull Maddness - and all concepts for the makeover on that attraction (as well as for CA Scream, the ferris wheel, and the stinger) completely miss the mark of what should be in that particular area - All of PP was so horribly conceptualized and executed, and this is Disney's chance to fix THE LARGEST ERROR of Disney Theme Park history - and any inkling the that future of this park is on the wrong track, and NOT doing ALL it should, will bring criticism.

Disney best look at the criticism, before it blows another Billion on the same BAD idea!

Quote:
Originally Posted by techskip
If they are simply hiding it that would be great, but if it is going to be done on the cheap in hopes of it being "temporary" and hopefully removed in the future then that could be a problem. What if it isn't removed... then we are left with a half conceived piece of crap with an equally crappy overlay.

Well you're going to have that problem in any project.. including how Disneyland was built originally. Some things are bridge, stop-gap solutions, whose future depends on factors that have not yet been decided. Very few things are done 100% for day one.

And THAT is EXACTLY the most troubling part of the entire DCA/PP makeover, in that even as they have already started changing up Paradise Pier, that they still are obviously oblivious to how they can make this area work- And IF they can't - they are better off with an entirely different theme. The County Fair/Boardwalk/6 Flags Theme has ALWAYS sucked, and WILL continue to suck.

Except for the little mermaid ride, in PP, it's all lipstick on a pig. And no one has the courage to say it.

[MagicWDI]

Originally Posted by Aladdin

You know, when they FINALLY announce the update to Star Tours, everyone will realize how crappy and ugly Paradise Pier is (even with updates), again.

I don't understand what you're trying to say.

[Aladdin]

There will be so much more excitement for an update to Star Tours, than the lack of change to existing rides in paradise puddle.