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  1. #1

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    Where should the Villains Go?

    I've read a lot of threads recently about villains. Maybe it's because it's Halloween, and the villains are out more. Maybe people just want to see villains. I've read everything from restaurants to shops to attractions to meet n greets. My question is, where should they go? Should they reopen the Villains Shop? Perhaps they should dedicate a specific resturaunt? Or maybe they should have a specific attraction? Should they have their own show? Possibly have their own themed meet n greet?

    Personally I would like to theme Paradise Pier to villains (which would be fitting since it is a carni theme to begin with). Let the various stores and attractions take on a Villains theme with shops and games included as well. Consider it a mini "Pleasure Island" from Pinnochio. It will never happen, but that's my thought... so I open the floor... in your personal opinion where should the villains be? What, if anything should be a representation of the Villains, and which Villians should be represented?
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    Re: Where should the Villains Go?

    I've always thought there should be a Villains Land. This would be better suited for DCA I suppose. The possibilities for a land like this would be endless.


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    Re: Where should the Villains Go?

    They should be in prison where they belong.

    Actually, that was a joke, but a TT prison with a villains character M&G might be a good idea. As you know I've been suggesting adding more villains to the pier for a long time too. I don't think the whole pier, but if they eventually can use that space behind Screamin' for attractions that would be a perfect place for one or two Villain themed attractions and a villain sub-land area near the current Maliboomer area. I think that the dark side of the boardwalk with a creepy carni feel would fit perfect in that area.
    The Mickey audience is not made up of people; it has no racial, national, political, religious or social differences or affiliations; the Mickey audience is made up of parts of people, of that deathless, precious, ageless, absolutely primitive remnant of something in every world-wracked human being which makes us play with children’s toys and laugh without self-consciousness at silly things, and sing in bathtubs, and dream and believe that our babies are uniquely beautiful. You know…the Mickey in us.
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    Re: Where should the Villains Go?

    I still want to see some kind of villian attraction built in place of the current Skyway station in fantasy land and theme it to look like a minniature fortress on the hill with the ride being some kind of alterna version of events like wicked. it would be great to have a little shop up there as well as a meet and greet that would rotatate villians...

    I think the little walkway would be awesome cause it could be themed to be spooky and a little creepy.... and you would "ascend" up into the hills...

    That way its part of the greater story of fantasyland, but they have been exiled to the back hills...

    Anyway thats just me!
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    Re: Where should the Villains Go?

    There was an atricle over at the Blue Sky Disney in June that gave all the blue sky ideas that never came into play

    One of those ideas was a villains theme park. A whole theme park! I would love that. So they have thought about the villains before

    Persoally a restraunt would be intersting to add.

    Maybe even change Bug's Land into Villains Land

    Here's the really long article. Some you'll know so you might not know
    There's proably been other ideas that belong in here over the last couple of months with the whole remodel of DCA


    Saturday, June 14, 2008

    The Disney Lands That Time Forgot...



    With all this talk about Disney cutting back, I thought it might be appropriate to reflect on what Imagineers have worked on in the past few decades. Remember that they're a house filled with many ideas and unfortunately the Suits haven't always bought what they've tried to sell them. So let's reminisce about what was proposed before and could someday be again(in some form)...

    In no particular order:

    Dark Kingdom


    Also known as "Shadowlands," a theme park that was proposed as addition to Walt Disney World. It's never gotten far enough along to be approved, but this park would be a villain's theme park designed as a reverse of the Magic Kingdom. In this one, the Disney Villains are in charge and the center of the park was to have been Malificent's Castle. There was supposedly plans for a Captain Hook attraction, a Night on Bald Mountain roller-coaster ride, rides built around Ursula, Cruella De Ville and others. Personally, I would go crazy at this park were they to have given it the detail of Tokyo DisneySea.

    Discovery Bay


    A proposed new land for Disneyland in the late 70's. Discovery Bay was a Victorian place, a village or small town that was supposed to have cropped up in the north west around the turn of the nineteenth century. Imagine if Captain Nemo had escaped the disaster at the end of Leagues and had came across a mining town nestled in a bay in northern California in the middle of the Gold Rush. He and other reclusive inventors would have used the place as a base for experimenting and developing their ideas for a brighter future. The kind of place that Verne or Wells would have inhabited. An area where airships could be flown in seclusion(much like the Videopolis in Paris) or one could have dinner inside a luxury restaurant aboard the Nautilus(again, part of the original proposal for Discoveryland in Paris). Or you could have a Journey to the Center of the Earth ride... sounds familiar, don't it? Many of the concepts of "Discovery Bay" have made it into parks in Paris, Orlando or Anaheim. This land has also been talked about as a park unto itself. Some have suggested it could be one of the new theme parks proposed in Asia, but it's doubtful that this will be the Second Gate for Hong Kong.

    Disney's America


    Disney's attempt in 1993 to build a park celebrating the greatness of America which went down in flames a year later when preservationist and various interest groups began to protest the location of the park in Virginia. The design of the park, headed by Bob Weis(DCA's head Imagineer) was to be eight distinctly themed lands. The plans for Disney's America called for 8 distinctly themed areas:

    A Native American Village depicting an accurate Native American village reflecting the tribes that were known in this part of the country. And also enjoy interactive experiences, exhibits and arts and crafts, as well as an exciting white water river raft ride that would have gone all around the area, based on the Lewis and Clark expedition.

    Civil War, based around a Civil War Fort would have plunged guests into a more turbulent time of American history, and adjacent to it, a big battlefield, where Civil War re-enactments and water battles between the Monitor and the Merrimac would have once again be fought.

    Ellis Island, which moved into the 20th century, a replica of Ellis Island building where many immigrants came through, guests would have live the "immigrant experience" through music, ethnic foods and a great live show presentation.

    State Fair Area which was going to show how even during the big Depression of the '30s, Americans knew how to entertain themselves. With folk art exhibits and a live show on baseball, guests could have enjoy, too, classic wooden thrill rides in memory of Coney Island.

    The Farm, recreating an authentic farm where guests could have the opportunity to see different types of farm industries related to food production in addition to some hands-on experiences like milking cows and learning what homemade ice cream tastes like.

    President's Square, which was a celebration of the birth of democracy and those who fought to preserve it. The Hall of Presidents of Walt Disney World would have moved to Disney's America.

    Enterprise, representing a factory town, would have highlights American ingenuity and guests could have ride a major roller coaster attraction called the "Industrial Revolution" , traveling through a 19th century landscape with heavy industry and blast furnaces. And, on either side of the coaster, exhibits of famous American technology that have defined the American industry in the past, as new developments that will define industries in the future.

    Victory Field, celebrating aviation where guests would have experience what America's soldiers faced in the defense of freedom during the world wars. It would have look like an airport area with a series of hangars containing attractions based on America's military fight using virtual reality technology. The airport would have serve also as an exhibit area of planes from different periods, as well as a place for major flying exhibitions.

    Disney's MGM Studios Backlot

    This attraction, which was kind of a hybrid park/mall was to be situated on 40-acre park in Burbank, near the Walt Disney Studios. Many of the rides and attractions that would show up in Disney-MGM Studios were included in this design(Great Movie Ride, ect.). Some believe that the park would have never seen the light of day and it was only proposed as a threat to Universal Studios plans to open a version of their Hollywood park in Florida.

    Edison Square


    This new "land" for Disneyland would have been an expansion to Main Street USA designed as as side street that was themed around the addition of electricity into American homes. Would have featured a statue of Thomas Edison, and a stage show about harnessing electricity.(The Carousel of Progress would borrow from this plan).

    Hollywoodland


    Sounds kind of familiar to you guys that have read the latest "Blue Sky Buzz", eh? This was also known as "Roger Rabbit's Hollywood" at times and would have a 30's Hollywood theme that included representations of Walt's famed Hyperion Studios among others, located between Main Street USA and Tomorrowland. The side of Space Mountain facing the land would have been converted into the hill with the Hollywood letters on it. It would have featured The Great Movie Ride from Disney's Hollywood Studios and Dick Tracy's Crimestoppers along with several other attractions.

    Liberty Street

    This was an additional side street off of Main Street in Disneyland that would have been a side street expansion to Main Street USA themed around a New England town circa the American Revolution. It would featured themed period shops, The Hall of Presidents, a beautiful bay scene, and recreating many famous American landmarks(much of this idea would come to fruition at Walt Disney World's Magic Kingdom in Liberty Square).

    Mythia

    A new land addition to Disneyland that was based on Greek and Roman myths, it would focus on classic creations, Hercules was supposedly an idea floated around as one of the center attractions. Some of the ideas for this land were discussed as a possible theme park of its own, many of the ideas from this would influence the proposed land in Disney's Animal Kingdom that was known as "Beastly Kingdom."

    Lava Lagoon


    After designing the elaborately detailed Euro Disneyland park, WDI wanted to expand the Resort into a real resort that didn't just have a park with a bunch of hotels. Planning to create a European version of Walt Disney World, the guys in Glendale planned to create a water park as beautiful as the theme park they were just completing. The Imagineers came up with a Polynesian themed attraction that was built beneath a glass dome to handle the weather of Paris. Of course, once Euro Disneyland has such a bad first year the project was shelved. It would never see the light of day.

    Beastly Kingdom

    This was to be the third themed area of the new animal park that Disney Imagineer Joe Rohde was planning on opening. It's original intend(lost now to many) was to focus on: The actual design was animals that are extinct(Dinosaurs), animals that are living(those alive today) and animals that were fantasy(the stuff of myths and legend). As a cost cutting measure, Michael Eisner chose to cut this land to keep the budget down and instead put in a "meet and greet" area know as Camp Minnie-Mickey. The land would have had all sorts of elaborate rides and shops with two "E-Tickets" that explored fantasy. One would be a good ride known as "Quest for the Unicorn", while the other would be a foreboding roller-coaster that was a dark ride know as "Dragon Tower." There were plans(hopes) to add the attraction at a later date. It would eventually get shelved like so many other rides. If the economy stays good and WDW continues the good times over the next few years we may see a new version of it come to life. If you look at the logo for DAK you'll notice that it has a dragon on it to reflect that part of the park which was to be built.

    Mineral King Ski Resort

    To be located within a subalpine valley in southern Sequoia National Park, this project was to be an elaborately themed ski resort unlike anything before it. One of Walt Disney's last projects, Mineral King was to look like an old Alpine lodge resort that blended in with the surroundings of the beautiful nature that this valley offered. The Country Bear's Jamboree was going to play a part in this entertaining people. When the project was canceled in the 70's because of environmental concerns, those ideas moved on to become part of the parks.

    Tomorrowland 2055


    This was going to be the much hyped about retheming of TL that Tony Baxter and others planned on doing to give a new experience to the dated look that the area was becoming. It involved an elaborate show at where Innoventions is and would have turned TL into something out of the Star Wars cantina. The area would be teaming with detailed creations that Imagineers wanted to use to create the impression that you were in an alternate future. The cost of the project continued to rise until Michael Eisner, dealing with the fiasco that was Euro Disney started to cut back funding for the park. What we got was Tomorrowland 98, which was a very pale and anemic layover that resembled little of what WDI had planned on doing to this cherished part of Disneyland(a future article about TL 55 is coming).

    Port Disney

    A proposal known as the "Long Beach Project," that was to be located near the Queen Mary that would feature aquatically themed rides based around the ocean, seas and exploration. The project would have a terminal for the yet to be finished Disney Cruise Line, 300 slits in the marina, five ocean related resort hotels and a theme park called, what else: Disneysea in which the center icon would be "Oceana," a giant bubble-like structure that would have been the water equivalent of Spaceship Earth in EPCOT. Some believed that this was a park proposed just to intimidate Anaheim into ponying up more to have the Second Gate built there. It finally went down in flames after a couple years, but luckily for us parts of it were resurrected to form the basis for Tokyo DisneySea.

    WestCOT

    This West Coast version of EPCOT was to be built where DCA now resides. The limit of land would have made the majority of the park resemble the World Showcase section of EPCOT, only instead of individual countries there would be a focus on the "Four Corners of the World", with the Americas Corner, the European Corner, the African Corner and the Asian Corner. It would feature at its center a Spaceship Earth that was gold instead of the silver one we're all familiar with in Florida. Alas, it was not to be and went down in flames under the weight of the Euro Disneyland mess... and from it arose DCA and the mess we've been left with. Ahem...
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  6. #6

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    Re: Where should the Villains Go?

    next time, please just use the quote thing and only use the important parts.

    thanks.

  7. #7

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    Re: Where should the Villains Go?

    Oh, please NOTHING is so bad that it should be assigned to Paradise Pier.

    Do with the Villains, what they should have done for Pooh and Ariel, from the very start with DL's original parking lot. Make a 100 Acre Play area for Pooh, instead of going open fire on the Country Bears. Then Give Ariel a whole area, too, just like TDS did. Give the Villains their own land, in Disney's 3rd Anaheim Park, Then Give Jack Skellington a place to live all year long - With those two lands- you already have a Great start on an area that could hold more adult Halloween Parties in the DLR.

  8. #8

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    Re: Where should the Villains Go?

    Quote Originally Posted by techskip View Post
    I've read a lot of threads recently about villains. Maybe it's because it's Halloween, and the villains are out more. Maybe people just want to see villains. I've read everything from restaurants to shops to attractions to meet n greets. My question is, where should they go? Should they reopen the Villains Shop?
    Yeah, they never should've closed the shop in the first place!

    Quote Originally Posted by techskip View Post
    Perhaps they should dedicate a specific resturaunt?
    I'd say no because I wouldn't want to associate food with evil, even if it's just for pretend. The Disney Villains should be appreciated, certainly, but not with "poisoned apple" slices on the side for a healthy dessert, for instance.

    Quote Originally Posted by techskip View Post
    Or maybe they should have a specific attraction?
    Nah, they're already a part of animated features-based rides, as well as the animated features themselves, of course.

    Quote Originally Posted by techskip View Post
    Should they have their own show?
    They already have one--it's called WDW's version of Fantasmic!.

    Quote Originally Posted by techskip View Post
    Possibly have their own themed meet n greet?
    OK, now you're talking! For example, it could be themed as a club they regularly gather at called the Snake Pit or Viper Pit, and its architectural design could be based on snakes.

    Quote Originally Posted by techskip View Post
    Personally I would like to theme Paradise Pier to villains (which would be fitting since it is a carni theme to begin with).
    Well, it's already my worst nightmare as a land in a Disney theme park, so why not? This idea depends on what DCA's eventual overall theme will be. If instead of DCA it essentially becomes Disney's Disney Adventure , then I guess it could work. Part of it could be devoted to a sort of Bizarro Disneyland--evil versions of some Disneyland attractions and/or landmarks. I'm not sold on this idea, but it's fun to think about, anyway. This land could be called simply The Dungeon.

  9. #9

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    Re: Where should the Villains Go?

    If the Skway never returned, Maleficent's castle would look great on that hill, with the dragon sleeping inside (ala paris) and a shop. Better yet, use it as a queue for a ride where you escape Maleficent's dungeon and confront the dragon.

    in the meantime, put the Villains Shop back in Fantasyland where it used to be - the old Merlin's Magic Shop. Or in the castle where the Tinker Bell shop is now.

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    Re: Where should the Villains Go?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aladdin View Post
    Oh, please NOTHING is so bad that it should be assigned to Paradise Pier.

    Do with the Villains, what they should have done for Pooh and Ariel, from the very start with DL's original parking lot. Make a 100 Acre Play area for Pooh, instead of going open fire on the Country Bears. Then Give Ariel a whole area, too, just like TDS did. Give the Villains their own land, in Disney's 3rd Anaheim Park, Then Give Jack Skellington a place to live all year long - With those two lands- you already have a Great start on an area that could hold more adult Halloween Parties in the DLR.
    Huh, this sounds like a disjointed mess, no thank you. PP would be a vastly better choice, don't let your blind hatred of the theme limit what it could become.
    The Mickey audience is not made up of people; it has no racial, national, political, religious or social differences or affiliations; the Mickey audience is made up of parts of people, of that deathless, precious, ageless, absolutely primitive remnant of something in every world-wracked human being which makes us play with children’s toys and laugh without self-consciousness at silly things, and sing in bathtubs, and dream and believe that our babies are uniquely beautiful. You know…the Mickey in us.
    -Walt Disney

  11. #11

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    Re: Where should the Villains Go?

    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Bob View Post
    Huh, this sounds like a disjointed mess, no thank you. PP would be a vastly better choice, don't let your blind hatred of the theme limit what it could become.
    Even though they're making improvements to PP, I've never been a big fan of the area, nor even Screamin' - it's fun, but not Disney.

    So I could go for a wholesale redo of PP, as long as they keep some kind of lagoon there. A villains "land" would be fine, but what would become of TSMM? And would the villains land mean TLM and Beer Garden would be canceled? I don't see how they could fit a villains theme.

  12. #12

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    Re: Where should the Villains Go?

    Disneyland is for fantasy, adventure, tomorrow, etc. It's not supposed to be a place where you're constantly running into people trying to kill you with poisoned apples.

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    Re: Where should the Villains Go?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mojave View Post
    Even though they're making improvements to PP, I've never been a big fan of the area, nor even Screamin' - it's fun, but not Disney.

    So I could go for a wholesale redo of PP, as long as they keep some kind of lagoon there. A villains "land" would be fine, but what would become of TSMM? And would the villains land mean TLM and Beer Garden would be canceled? I don't see how they could fit a villains theme.
    If I were in charge I wouldn't change the entire theme of PP and much of what they're doing in the remodel could stay. I don't care for the existing PP, but I think the new direction can become really cool if they do it right.

    Like I said earlier, my villains area would be in the back corner of PP only, and would be part of PP, but it would be like the villains had taken over that area. It would be transition to the villain overlay near the new games of the boardwalk and end near the Beer Garden and use the space of Maliboomer and all of the space behind that end of Screamin' for a small extension of the walkways and shops and show buildings.

    In terms of the timeline and architecture it would hold together with the rest of PP, but the buildings would start looking a little more creepy as you entered the area. You could create a decent sized sub-land area back there if you were creative in how you fit things in. I talked about a few more of my ideas for this area in my DCA thread, here's some of what I said.

    A whole villains feel would be created for the area that hosts the ride, down a little back street behind Screamin’s west helix. From anywhere in PP you’d be able to see rocky peaks reminiscent of Big Sur integrated into and around the swing ride and Screamin’, and the higher parts of the hilltop “palace” looming beyond. This would again be part of “berm” creation. In that vain, I would also hope that the PP hotel could be remodeled to have a more era appropriate looking façade.

    I would also focus on doing a lot of place making throughout PP. Near the Villains Lair ride I would also add a big Victorian building that would house a lavish candy and ice cream parlor filled with comical villainous offers of tempting treats.
    The Mickey audience is not made up of people; it has no racial, national, political, religious or social differences or affiliations; the Mickey audience is made up of parts of people, of that deathless, precious, ageless, absolutely primitive remnant of something in every world-wracked human being which makes us play with children’s toys and laugh without self-consciousness at silly things, and sing in bathtubs, and dream and believe that our babies are uniquely beautiful. You know…the Mickey in us.
    -Walt Disney

  14. #14

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    Re: Where should the Villains Go?

    Great topic.

    I read something years ago (I want to say high school or early stages of my college years) about Florida doing a Splash Mountain-esque Villian's Mountain (it was right around the time Atlantis came out and they were going to do an Atlantis themed ride but they were debating which to do: villians or Atlantis and decided to do both...). I always thought that would be fun. Or have like Pleasure Island (from Pinocchio) where the villians hang out. With like "villiany" takes on the different rides. That could be a lot of fun. Maybe have a grown ups corner with beer/ale (because villians drink after all... ).

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    Re: Where should the Villains Go?

    Quote Originally Posted by bee1000 View Post
    Disneyland is for fantasy, adventure, tomorrow, etc. It's not supposed to be a place where you're constantly running into people trying to kill you with poisoned apples.
    You get chased by an Old Hag through a dark castle and forest. You encounter an evil puppetmaster and carnival owner who wants to make profit out of you. You crash into a train and go to h---. An evil queen wants to chop off your head. A yeti wants to take a swing at you. A starfleet almost takes over your starspeeder. Weasels(sp) want to cover you in this green stuff that kills animated characters. You almost get bitten by giants snakes, flying arrows, and a giant round stone.

    As my 1st Disneyland visit friend said "Why are all the Disneyland rides trying to scare you?"



    As for a villains land. A "Pleasure Island" in the area between Pizza-a-Moo-moo and Mullohand(sp) madness would be a neat villains sub-land within PP.

    "You're not thinking fourth dimensionally!" -Back to the Future

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