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  1. #1

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    Pumbaa Parking Structure - when?

    When will Disney begin building the Pumbaa (Lion King?) Parking Structure?

    Driving to Disneyland from the south using northbound I-5, most drivers will get off at Disney Way, which is nicely integrated into the HOV lanes. There are other exits, Katella and Harbor/Ball.

    Now comes a journey. You take Disney Way west to the eastern entrance gate, drive all around the back of DCA (rarely do I get to park in Timon), then exit the park onto Disneyland Drive, drive the length of that (rarely do they have the DTD entrance to the parking structure open any more), make a u-turn, then head into the parking structure normally, the way southbound I-5 drivers do. That's a long convoluted drive!

    Once Cars Land is built, there's no need to run people behind DCA. So it's time to build that parking structure and let those of us from the south have an easy short way to get to parking!

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    Re: Pumbaa Parking Structure - when?

    Yeah, it's definitely going to be needed, and the parking is going to be bad on busy days untill it is done. Lets hope it really is happening and they get started right after the holidays.
    The Mickey audience is not made up of people; it has no racial, national, political, religious or social differences or affiliations; the Mickey audience is made up of parts of people, of that deathless, precious, ageless, absolutely primitive remnant of something in every world-wracked human being which makes us play with children’s toys and laugh without self-consciousness at silly things, and sing in bathtubs, and dream and believe that our babies are uniquely beautiful. You know…the Mickey in us.
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    Re: Pumbaa Parking Structure - when?

    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Bob View Post
    Yeah, it's definitely going to be needed, and the parking is going to be bad on busy days untill it is done. Lets hope it really is happening and they get started right after the holidays.
    Oh! The plan is to start that parking structure right after the holidays? So early 2009? Really?! Awesome!

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    Re: Pumbaa Parking Structure - when?

    Still a lot of permits and advance planning that need to be done.

    First off, Disney will have to keep the Timon Toll Booths open, to allow traffic coming from the North Bound I-5 onto Disney Way to get out of the city traffic.

    More than likely, the first thing Disney will address is the Simba parking lot, which more than likely will be converted into more Theme Park parking (right now, about 1/3 is designed primarily for Theme Parks). More than likely, the current area where CM's and DtD employees park will be switched over to Theme Park parking, forcing the current Cm's to use the Katella Parking Lot, and that Disney will have to start paying for Shuttle Buses to the Hotels/DtD area.

    Then they will have to address the Northern part of Simba. Hopefully the Grand California Expansion will be finished enough to open the Basement parking levels, allowing the Valets to once again park the GCH cars there, instead of the area fenced of at Simba. Then they need to figure out what to do about Downtown Disney and its need for expanded parking on occasion, do you use Lilo and some of the area that is also used by the Disneyland Hotel and/or Pinocchio next to the Parking Structure?

    If you can shift some of the current DtD overflow lot area (the current northern part of Simba), then you can have more Theme Park Parking in Simba.

    But the one thing Disney does not like about Simba, when they are directing people who paid at the Timon Toll Booths to Simba, they send them behind DCA to Disneyland Drive, and California Law requires that a City Traffic Control Officer directs the traffic over the city street. So Disney has to pay for a few Police Officers to do the job, and they get paid Overtime, and also a fee to the City to cover the additional support, such as vehicles and supervisors. So Disney tries to not use it unless they don't have other options.

    Once you get Simba converted, then they should have parking for most days for guests without using Timon. (And Disney will get a few CM parking spaces back when the new Bakery is finished on the North side of the Mickey and Friends Parking Structure).

    As with Pummba, no tram service will be offered at Simba (since the vehicle would cross the city street).

    Other options are available, Disney has a deal with the Anaheim Convention Center to use its parking facilities on days the Convention Center is slow, but they are planning to tear down the parking structure on Katella to convert the area to another Hotel and more convention meeting space. So guests would park in the West Structures, which face West St. (aka Disneyland Drive north of Katella). And more than likely Disney would have to arrange for Shuttle Buses, which is expensive. They currently have a deal with Coach USA to provide those services (Coach USA runs the ART system, the Disneyland Express Airport Bus and Gray Line Tours in Anaheim) to guests.

    And of course, there is Buzz Lightyear, which has the same shuttle bus issues as the Anaheim Convention Center West St. structures.

    (I also presume that Disney will be using more of the Buzz Lightyear lot for its own CM's and the DtD employees.) Of course, Disney could pave over more of the Strawberry Fields (already zoned for the use).

    But the worst thing about the use of Shuttle Buses, the large Coach USA buses only have one door, and it takes a long time to load/unload everyone, especially with children and strollers. But the vehicles have to be street legal, and the Disneyland Trams are not.

    Currently it seems that the Anaheim GardenWalk has some excess parking capacity, and Disney might look into using them on occasion, but Disney needs to be careful to not upset the Downtown Disney merchants too much, so I presume Simba would be the primary lot (since guests have to walk through DtD to access the parks) to keep them happy, and then use AGW as a backup.

    A lot of planning to get done (and as Al has reported today, work has started on the planning and permit process) before the Pummba lot get closed.

    (And who knows, maybe Disney has some tricks up its sleeve (or should I say money and/or title deeds to some of the buildings north of the Pummba lot to allow a larger Structure to be built.

    But it is clear, Disney HAS to do something, as Anaheim City Code requires a certain amount of parking spaces based on the size of your operation, and with the DCA expansion, Disney will need more parking spaces, and not just the ones they lost to build the expansion, but spaces to take care of the anticipated larger crowds.

    If everything goes well, I can see Pummba closing sometime in 2009 to start the project, though they might opt to wait until after mid-August to get past the Summer Season. Some pre-construction work could start earlier, especially if they get the rights to some of the land north of Pummba, so they are all ready to go in Mid-August. And if they can get it planned right, maybe be lucky enough to finish by Memorial Day, 2010. (Heck, it is just basically a Concrete structure, with the need for a few restrooms, elevators, escalators and a CM area to take care of Breaks, Management/Cash Control and Security). But if they want to go underground for additional space, I would add another year to the project, as it takes quite awhile to dig out the soil, and then shore up the inner walls.

    Of course, there are other issues, including ordering steel, which seems to need a long lead time lately due to the Steel Factories.

  5. #5

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    Re: Pumbaa Parking Structure - when?

    I don't know for sure when it will start. I'm just hoping that based on what I've been hearing, but it could definitely be longer.
    The Mickey audience is not made up of people; it has no racial, national, political, religious or social differences or affiliations; the Mickey audience is made up of parts of people, of that deathless, precious, ageless, absolutely primitive remnant of something in every world-wracked human being which makes us play with children’s toys and laugh without self-consciousness at silly things, and sing in bathtubs, and dream and believe that our babies are uniquely beautiful. You know…the Mickey in us.
    -Walt Disney

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    Re: Pumbaa Parking Structure - when?

    That was an excellent description of the issues Monday, thanks. I doubt they'll go underground, it adds a lot to the cost.
    The Mickey audience is not made up of people; it has no racial, national, political, religious or social differences or affiliations; the Mickey audience is made up of parts of people, of that deathless, precious, ageless, absolutely primitive remnant of something in every world-wracked human being which makes us play with children’s toys and laugh without self-consciousness at silly things, and sing in bathtubs, and dream and believe that our babies are uniquely beautiful. You know…the Mickey in us.
    -Walt Disney

  7. #7

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    Re: Pumbaa Parking Structure - when?

    Thanks Monday, that's excellent information!

    It sounds like many of these issues with parking, the Simba, AGW, Convention Center, hotels, DTD and CM lots can be avoided with building the Pumbaa lot. If there is a big lot just east of Disneyland then they don't need to worry about using those other listed lots and buses to get people around.

    What land north of the Pumbaa lot are you talking about? My understanding was that those office buildings there were going to stay and Disney wouldn't be able to purchase the land.

    Finally, what are the issues involved in either tunneling under or bridging over Harbor Blvd for trams? I remember reading in some thread here that Harbor is designated as some kind of evacuation route and therefore has special requirements. Does that include not allowing building over or under it?

  8. #8

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    Re: Pumbaa Parking Structure - when?


    It sounds like many of these issues with parking, the Simba, AGW, Convention Center, hotels, DTD and CM lots can be avoided with building the Pumbaa lot. If there is a big lot just east of Disneyland then they don't need to worry about using those other listed lots and buses to get people around.
    Yes, and that is the point of building a structure at Pumbaa, to increase the amount of available spaces that don't need much of a hassle. But while the construction work is going on, they will HAVE to rely on the other lots. Between the loss of Pumbaa and Timon, that is thousands of spaces that have to replaced.

    Once the Pumbaa lot is finished, then hopefully they can eliminate the need for the Timon Toll Booths and just convert the entire area to either attraction space, or backstage access.

    And Simba can be converted to Downtown Disney parking (Al did mention the possibility of the DtD expansion today) and maybe some overflow parking, using the Katella Ave Toll Booth (current the Security checkpoint for CM parking).

    And on very busy days, such as July 4th, New Years Eve, etc. using Buzz Lightyear and other overflow parking area.


    What land north of the Pumbaa lot are you talking about? My understanding was that those office buildings there were going to stay and Disney wouldn't be able to purchase the land.
    Land and property is always for sale, Disney could have used some normal tactics, like using holding companies to buy the land or even the company that owns the land to get access to the property. I have no proof, but in today's economy, some folks might be willing to sell when they were not a few years ago.

    Also, maybe the owners were hoping for a very successful opening of DCA, which of course, did not happen, hoping for higher land values.

    Even with the complete DCA makeover in a few years, I don't see the demand expected in 2001. So the land holders gambled and it didn't pay off, maybe it is times to cash in the remaining chips.....


    Finally, what are the issues involved in either tunneling under or bridging over Harbor Blvd for trams? I remember reading in some thread here that Harbor is designated as some kind of evacuation route and therefore has special requirements. Does that include not allowing building over or under it?
    Well, while I have heard the rumors of an airfield, I seriously doubt that.

    But I am pretty sure that city planners want to keep the route open and wide for other reasons, including dealing with extra wide loads, etc.

    The biggest issue with Harbor is that Disney would have to get permission from the city to do something like tunneling, and would more than likely have to pay the city for the rights to use the land under the street.

    Is it possible? Yes, but Disney has been doing just find letting people park at Pumbaa and making them walk to the parks.

    Once again, these are some of the types of decisions that Disney is working on, and a big one is cost. How much to run trams, shuttle buses, buying additional land, etc? What will be the return on the investment?

    When I see planning threads, many folks on the boards don't take into the consideration the costs, the impact on other nearby attractions and areas, etc. Things that Disney has to take into consideration on a regular basis.

    Also, some weird things, like the current Timon Parking Lot changes. The main reason is due to the Construction Contract and Union workers. They get priority on parking, and why they get their own lot next to the work-site, while the CM's have to park at Katella.
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  9. #9

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    Re: Pumbaa Parking Structure - when?

    Why not use the current Timon for DtD/CM parking (since those spots are going to be going away and use Simba for Theme Park parking??? That way you only need a shuttle from Timon to DtD/Hotels instead of all the way from the Katella lot.


  10. #10

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    Re: Pumbaa Parking Structure - when?

    I've heard rumor of walkways over Harbor like what they have in Vegas.
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    Re: Pumbaa Parking Structure - when?

    Quote Originally Posted by sir clinksalot View Post
    Why not use the current Timon for DtD/CM parking (since those spots are going to be going away and use Simba for Theme Park parking??? That way you only need a shuttle from Timon to DtD/Hotels instead of all the way from the Katella lot.
    Because by the time construction starts at Pumbaa, the rest of Timon will be closed for the Cars Land construction (and if there are any spots left, they would be for the construction workers.)
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    Re: Pumbaa Parking Structure - when?

    Quote Originally Posted by PirateMunkee View Post
    I've heard rumor of walkways over Harbor like what they have in Vegas.
    I have also heard rumors, but not very strong at all...

    First off, who would pay for it, more than likely it would have to be the Anaheim Resort District, and the funds from the Hotel Tax.

    Those overcrossings are expensive, but then the City of Anehim might do a "trade-out", in which Disney gets permission to do a few things such as building permits and changes to the amount of parking spaces it needs in return to help fund the overcrossing(s).

    The new planned entrances/exits to the Pummba Structure will have to be approved by the State (Cal Trans) since it impacts the freeways and the City (City Street impacts), so some sort of deal could be reached.

    But right now, Disney is only planning, and starting to talk to the city, no deals have been proposed or made yet (and those do have to be made public).
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    Re: Pumbaa Parking Structure - when?

    It's interesting, they really don't have an ideal solution for this. It seems like the most logical places for additional parking just from a space availability aspect would be Simba or the K-lot/field, but those both have major transportation issues. This is why I suggested another structure in Pinocchio first, then start on Pumbaa once Pinocchio is finished. It still would be a bit of a drive for southern people, but it would make the phasing a lot easier.
    The Mickey audience is not made up of people; it has no racial, national, political, religious or social differences or affiliations; the Mickey audience is made up of parts of people, of that deathless, precious, ageless, absolutely primitive remnant of something in every world-wracked human being which makes us play with children’s toys and laugh without self-consciousness at silly things, and sing in bathtubs, and dream and believe that our babies are uniquely beautiful. You know…the Mickey in us.
    -Walt Disney

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    Re: Pumbaa Parking Structure - when?

    Quote Originally Posted by Darkbeer View Post
    Yes, and that is the point of building a structure at Pumbaa, to increase the amount of available spaces that don't need much of a hassle. But while the construction work is going on, they will HAVE to rely on the other lots. Between the loss of Pumbaa and Timon, that is thousands of spaces that have to replaced.
    Exactly! So why have they waited so long to build the Pumbaa lot? It seems like something they should have done *before* starting construction on CL, because then you don't have two big lots out of commission at the same time.


    Quote Originally Posted by Darkbeer View Post
    Well, while I have heard the rumors of an airfield, I seriously doubt that.

    Is it possible? Yes, but Disney has been doing just find letting people park at Pumbaa and making them walk to the parks.
    What's that about an airfield and how does it pertain to Harbor Blvd?

    The thing about walking is that it creates an interruption in traffic flow and pedestrian safety hazards, especially when you're talking about 5 times as many people walking across Harbor. At the very least, they could push the lights about 20 yards up Harbor and allow trams to cross at the same time as pedestrians.

    Quote Originally Posted by sir clinksalot View Post
    Why not use the current Timon for DtD/CM parking (since those spots are going to be going away and use Simba for Theme Park parking??? That way you only need a shuttle from Timon to DtD/Hotels instead of all the way from the Katella lot.
    With CL construction starting next spring I think, the small remaining bit of Timon becomes basically useless for DtD or CMs.

  15. #15

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    Re: Pumbaa Parking Structure - when?

    I was thinking about allowing the tram to cross at grade too Mojave. I guess it would require the trams to get doors and some new lights. I could also see traffic issues with cars and trams backing up at the light and it becoming a mess. I supposed it's a possibility, but it would not be ideal. I agree though, the idea of that many people having to cross Harbor seems dangerous as well.
    The Mickey audience is not made up of people; it has no racial, national, political, religious or social differences or affiliations; the Mickey audience is made up of parts of people, of that deathless, precious, ageless, absolutely primitive remnant of something in every world-wracked human being which makes us play with children’s toys and laugh without self-consciousness at silly things, and sing in bathtubs, and dream and believe that our babies are uniquely beautiful. You know…the Mickey in us.
    -Walt Disney

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