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  1. #31

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    Re: LA Times: Imagineering says report of Obama in Lincoln show is "patently false"

    Quote Originally Posted by MasterGracey View Post
    Proper investigation? Come on, Imagineering isn't going to release anything they don't want to release to traditional media outlets, especially the Los Angeles Times. I think Brady probably did as much as he could with Disney, considering the big-name media outlet he's attached to.
    I think the one thing that would make me feel more comfortable with his story is if he had a name to attach to WDI. Something along the lines of "Joe Blow, a spokesperson for Walt Disney Imagineering, said:"

    "WDI officials" could really mean anything.

  2. #32

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    Re: LA Times: Imagineering says report of Obama in Lincoln show is "patently false"

    Didnt thery also deny that Tom Sawyer Island would be redressed as a pirates of the caribbean tie-in?

  3. #33

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    Re: LA Times: Imagineering says report of Obama in Lincoln show is "patently false"

    ...
    a Barack Obama animatronic figure will NOT be added to the “Great Moments with Mr. Lincoln” show at Disneyland

    Could be taken at face value, or it could be brilliance in semantics (like the rain forest removal deal).

    No, we're not adding him to "Great Moments with Mr Lincoln", rather, we're getting rid of GMWML and creating a new show including the president elect.

    Their initial quote would officially be accurate, but Mr Lutz would be correct, too.


    The talk of this story being a way to flush out moles is reminding me of Mission Impossible, a scene of which I just saw again the other day...."red light...green light..."

  4. #34

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    Re: LA Times: Imagineering says report of Obama in Lincoln show is "patently false"

    Let's bring back Lincoln first and THEN talk about other crap!

  5. #35

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    Re: LA Times: Imagineering says report of Obama in Lincoln show is "patently false"

    Quote Originally Posted by MasterGracey View Post
    They could have easily said they have no comment -- or just not returned Brady's call. Instead, they replied by saying that the rumor was "patently false." Strong words. Seems like damage control to me rather than quietly ignoring a rumor and letting it disappear. Instead, they acknowledge it, comment on it, and let it remain relevant.

    Maybe it isn't damage control.. maybe Imagineering just needs some new PR people.
    Or maybe their PR people know how to keep the buzz going. Admit it on one hand, deny it on the other, divide and conquer. Remember Angela Lansbury in "The Manchurian Candidate"? "People aren't saying are there Communists in the State Department; they're saying how many Communists are in the State Department." In DL's case, people aren't saying are they going to change the Lincoln show or It's a Small World; they're saying how are they going to change the Lincoln show or It's a Small World.
    Last edited by Broadway Guru; 11-19-2008 at 11:03 PM. Reason: because
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  6. #36

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    Re: LA Times: Imagineering says report of Obama in Lincoln show is "patently false"

    Some of you are asking how "Al the Internet Guy" could possibly know more about what's happening in WDI than WDI does. I'm asking how anyone could take WDI management's word as the truth -- especially when reported in an L.A. Times blog!

    Even if the truth was that WDI hauled Blaine out of retirement and he finished the clay sculpt of Obama's face a week ago, do you guys seriously think WDI would admit it in the press? Say "yup, Al scooped us"? Empower Al's sources for even more leaks?

    Of course they'd say "no!"
    Last edited by Mr Wiggins; 11-19-2008 at 11:17 PM.
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  7. #37

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    Re: LA Times: Imagineering says report of Obama in Lincoln show is "patently false"

    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Bob View Post
    While I agree with you Tech, I also think your removed arguement is a little weak. I mean they probably removed many pieces so they could be fixed and then put them back in. The act of removing them as part of the refurb has nothing to do with with removing them permanently, other than the fact that something was removed in general.
    If it was a direct transplant, piece for piece then I would say that it was not removed. However it was severely downsized, and multiple pieces have been removed. Also in it's place a USA scene is being built. Per the letter that USA scene was a rumor and was not being installed, and the rainforest was not being removed. The rainforest was relocated, and portions of it were removed, and USA is being installed in it's place. Looks like Small World suffers from the same issue of rainforest deforestation and haphazard replanting as the real world...

    As to "smoking out the moles" it is a pretty common tactic to feed individuals misinformation about a project to determine what actually leaks out. By feeding different individuals different pieces you can follow the flow of information out the door. Disney is a very large company, with many hands working on different aspects of the same project. In the past they were able to keep a lid on things, but with the "faceless internet" anyone can leak anything and catching them is often difficult. I take any posting with a grain of salt until the individual establishes their experience, and knowledge in that area. Many individuals claim to know what they are talking about, some actually do!
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  8. #38

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    Re: LA Times: Imagineering says report of Obama in Lincoln show is "patently false"

    'modified' 'changed' - but it wasn't removed. People could argue it was 'put back' but none of us really know. Skylar could have just been very choice with his words all along knowing it was going to be CHANGED, but not removed.
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  9. #39

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    Re: LA Times: Imagineering says report of Obama in Lincoln show is "patently false"

    Quote Originally Posted by flynnibus View Post
    'modified' 'changed' - but it wasn't removed. People could argue it was 'put back' but none of us really know. Skylar could have just been very choice with his words all along knowing it was going to be CHANGED, but not removed.
    So then how do you classify the sections that are not there? Are they invisible? Do they merely defy the laws of physics and not take up any space? Are they merely manifestations of ones imagination... because I am imagining a lot of what was there is not there... I believe that defines those pieces as being removed? Likewise the rainforest is no longer in the room it once occupied... which means... it was removed from that room, downsized, some pieces were placed elsewhere others were removed entirely! In short some of it was removed...
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  10. #40

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    Re: LA Times: Imagineering says report of Obama in Lincoln show is "patently false"

    Quote Originally Posted by techskip View Post
    So then how do you classify the sections that are not there? Are they invisible? Do they merely defy the laws of physics and not take up any space? Are they merely manifestations of ones imagination... because I am imagining a lot of what was there is not there... I believe that defines those pieces as being removed? Likewise the rainforest is no longer in the room it once occupied... which means... it was removed from that room, downsized, some pieces were placed elsewhere others were removed entirely! In short some of it was removed...
    They are in the Twilight Zone, look for them the next time you're on ToT.
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  11. #41

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    Re: LA Times: Imagineering says report of Obama in Lincoln show is "patently false"

    Quote Originally Posted by techskip View Post
    So then how do you classify the sections that are not there? Are they invisible? Do they merely defy the laws of physics and not take up any space? Are they merely manifestations of ones imagination...
    You're arguing a pointless semantic.

    When you change your hairstyle... do you go and tell everyone you 'removed your hair, and put some back' or did you simply 'change your hairstyle'... even tho some hair was removed, and some was moved from one part to another.

    When you rearrange your home's furniture.. do you tell everyone you removed it and put it all back? No, you said you changed it.. even if that means some pieces didn't come back.

    The point is... a rainforest scene still exists, even in a different form. We can only speculate if that was the plan all along, or it changed and that's what Skylar was being sly on, or if it was changed still after after Skylar's comments.

    Arguing if 'removed' includes taken out, and put back in, in the same actions is pretty stupid IMO.
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  12. #42

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    Re: LA Times: Imagineering says report of Obama in Lincoln show is "patently false"

    Quote Originally Posted by MrLiver View Post
    I think the one thing that would make me feel more comfortable with his story is if he had a name to attach to WDI. Something along the lines of "Joe Blow, a spokesperson for Walt Disney Imagineering, said:"

    "WDI officials" could really mean anything.
    The convention in journalism is that you usually don't mention someone's name on first reference unless it is someone very well known. The idea behind it is that their name is irrelevant, since it really makes no difference to the reader. That's why you see headlines like: "Local man wins big jackpot at casino," instead of "Joe Smith wins big jackpot."

    The only time Brady mentions a source in WDI is on first reference in the blog post, and then on first reference in the update.

    So the name isn't put in the blog because no one will recognize it and it doesn't matter. The source spoke on behalf of WDI, so you just credit it as "Walt Disney Imagineering officials."

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  13. #43

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    Re: LA Times: Imagineering says report of Obama in Lincoln show is "patently false"

    Keeping in mind that I've only been reading Al's articles since 2005, I have found him to be spot on FAR more than he's missed. And even when he is wrong about something, he's usually got a perfectly good explanation, i.e. the budget was slashed, etc, etc. I'm going with Al on this one as the LA times Brady guy seemingly walked up to Imagineering, knocked on the door, and asked them to confirm a Rumor. I have to wonder if Disney is fearing the same type of backlash they got when Al posted the original info about TSI turning into Pirate Island. People went nuts, and suddenly they found a way to tie the whole Pirate thing into Tom and Huck. The point is, Al was right, and initially, Disney PR folks flat out denied it, or wouldn't comment.

    Then came IASW. Same story. Overweight guests sinking boats, which was no secret on Micechat with more than one thread on boats getting stuck, caused another furor. Disney again went into damage control. Al was right.

    They flat out DENIED that the USA room and disney characters were coming to Disneyland. And yet, here they come. Disney Gallery, Jack Sparrow in POTC, changes to DCA, (which a certain personality on another Disney site empatically denied and who has since disappeared) .....I'm really beginning to see a pattern here. Seems like Al has been right about 90 percent of the time by my reckoning.

    After awhile, Al and his sources begin to establish a reputation. I'm with Al on this until proven otherwise. After the whole Marty Sklar thing, Imagineering PR folks are going to have to earn my trust before I believe their denials again. I'm sure the Al bashers have their reasons, and maybe some of those are related to something pre 2005. But from my vantage point, Al has been knocking these rumors out of the park. If I'm wrong on the 90 percent thing, feel free to give me specific examples on where he has been wrong since 2005.

  14. #44

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    Re: LA Times: Imagineering says report of Obama in Lincoln show is "patently false"

    Quote Originally Posted by Mac Daddy View Post
    After the whole Marty Sklar thing, Imagineering PR folks are going to have to earn my trust before I believe their denials again.
    Amen. That piece of spinsmanship from Mr. Sklar was so unprofessional that I first flat-out refused to believe he wrote it. Turned out not only was I wrong, it was A+ wordsmithing compared to the statements that followed from other Disney sources.

    Having read Al since the a.d.d. days, the thing I value most about his stuff has little to do with his accuracy on individual reports. It's that overall -- and over years -- he consistently strives to tell the truth to the public on a subject of personal concern to him.

    In that regard he has absolutely nothing in common with Disney, which in corporate fashion twists truth to serve itself, and is concerned primarily with how its public statements affect its bottom line.
    Last edited by Mr Wiggins; 11-21-2008 at 06:44 AM.
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  15. #45

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    Re: LA Times: Imagineering says report of Obama in Lincoln show is "patently false"

    Quote Originally Posted by flynnibus View Post
    You're arguing a pointless semantic.

    When you change your hairstyle... do you go and tell everyone you 'removed your hair, and put some back' or did you simply 'change your hairstyle'... even tho some hair was removed, and some was moved from one part to another.
    When I change my hairstyle I say I got my hair cut... "cut" implying some of it was removed...

    When you rearrange your home's furniture.. do you tell everyone you removed it and put it all back? No, you said you changed it.. even if that means some pieces didn't come back.
    When people ask about specific pieces "where's your old coffee table" or "what happened to that bookcase" I say I got rid of it or I donated it... implying it was removed...

    The point is... a rainforest scene still exists, even in a different form. We can only speculate if that was the plan all along, or it changed and that's what Skylar was being sly on, or if it was changed still after after Skylar's comments.
    The point is the rainforest has been removed from it's original scene and downsized. The point is the USA scene is going in (which the article said it would not be, and everyone would rather argue "removed" then address that part). The point is that the letter at the very least is deceptive, and to many people appears to blatantly lie! The point... flynn... is that people banked on the reputation of Uncle Marty and scolded anyone who questioned it, and now find that those soothing words hid the very changes they were against. The point is that some people feel betrayed by the very "stars" in WDI they had hoped they could trust. Now that those true colors are shining some would prefer to look away rather then admit what has happened.

    Arguing if 'removed' includes taken out, and put back in, in the same actions is pretty stupid IMO.
    You have "removed" in the sense that it was removed from it's original scene and replaced by another scene (USA which the letter stated wasn't going in). You also have "removed" in the sense that some of the forest was permanently removed due to a lack of space.
    Last edited by techskip; 11-21-2008 at 07:54 AM.
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