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  1. #1

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    Has Disney learned its lesson?

    I wanted to know if you think Disney has learned its lesson about building inadequate, cheap, half-day parks like DCA, DSP, HKDL and even to some extent DAK and DHS? Does the new DCA project shows a recognition and admission of this broad failure and a new direction under new management or just an acknowledgement of the problems at DCA specifically? Will this have any effect on the future development of new parks?
    The Mickey audience is not made up of people; it has no racial, national, political, religious or social differences or affiliations; the Mickey audience is made up of parts of people, of that deathless, precious, ageless, absolutely primitive remnant of something in every world-wracked human being which makes us play with children’s toys and laugh without self-consciousness at silly things, and sing in bathtubs, and dream and believe that our babies are uniquely beautiful. You know…the Mickey in us.
    -Walt Disney

  2. #2

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    Re: Has Disney learned its lesson?

    I don't think anything in the league of DCA will happen again, and I'm seeing a nice positive trend in Disney's output in the DLR, but they've still got a ways to go. Apparently the bean counters are loosening up a bit and remembering that you can't make a profit in this business without spending some dough first, which is definitely a big deal, but we're also seeing a huge influx of movie-based attractions of dubious thematic appropriateness at best. Kind of a mixed bag.

    But like I said...I don't think they'd be foolish enough to do something like DCA again.


  3. #3

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    Re: Has Disney learned its lesson?

    What is DSP? xD

    I don't think anything like DCA can or will ever happen again. They have learned their lesson for good. I hope. The only thing I think we have to worry abour at DLR right now are the managers changing our classic to movie things. Other than thatt... I think we are safe.
    We are currently imagineeing a new attraction for you!

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  4. #4

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    Re: Has Disney learned its lesson?

    Yes.
    Finish each day and be done with it. You have done what you could. Some blunders and absurdities no doubt crept in; forget them as soon as you can. Tomorrow is a new day; begin it well and serenely and with too high a spirit to be encumbered with your old nonsense.

    ~Ralph Waldo Emerson

  5. #5

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    Re: Has Disney learned its lesson?

    Based on the plans Disney has previewed in their Cellar in DCA, I don't think so.

    Sun Wheel to Mickey's Fun Wheel is going to be pretty much the same ride with fresh paint and Mickey added.

    Orange Stinger to Silly Symphony Swings is more work but still the same ride when they're done.

    Same thing for Mulholland Madness if they go through with that.

    I don't think the new entrance will really add anything to the park, especially when you consider that one of the focal points, the Carthay Theatre will be eye candy only, it wont be a functional theatre. The Red Cars sound fun but why aren't they being used park wide to address the "flow" issue. As it stands now if you want to get from the entrance to Toy Story or Screamin' the only option is to hike. At least in DL you have to option of the Main St. vehicles to get you a 3rd of the way in many cases or hop on the RR and reach distant attractions that way.

    They've been left with a real mess to build on. It's expensive and painful to tear down working attractions but I think they're going to have to get a little more aggressive with the 'dozer if they want to end up with a really great park.

  6. #6

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    Re: Has Disney learned its lesson?

    I agree with my friend Data....the general lesson has been learned, that if you open a cheap park without immersive attractions and such, people won't pay for it. That being said...I am glad the money is flowing for the parks these days, but I have serious issues with some of the thematic routes being persued, in example of everything has to have a movie character slapped on it. If a ride is fun and noteworthy and unique, and they wanna include a Disney character...great. But if the character is an excuse to build a ride that isn't notable in other ways, or adding it in to a existing attraction where it doesn't fit that well thematically...then there's a issue. That's the current problem with the parks system, they seem to be over the lack of creative ideas or money to implement ambitious things.
    when the spooks have a midnight jamboree....

  7. #7

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    Re: Has Disney learned its lesson?

    Quote Originally Posted by Vasooki View Post
    What is DSP? xD
    I think it's Walt Disney Studios Park("Disney Studios Paris"?).

    DCA isn't the only park to be undergoing major changes, there's a rumor that HKDL will be getting $645 million to add three new lands, and Disneyland Paris and Walt Disney Studios Park will probably get some of the newer stateside attractions like TSMM and TLM. So, yes, I think they've learned their lesson, the Disney name won't sell inferior products.

  8. #8

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    Re: Has Disney learned its lesson?

    nothing can suck as much as original DCA

  9. #9

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    Re: Has Disney learned its lesson?

    Actually, have you seen a baby giraffe and its bottle? It might actually suck more that DCA did.
    We are currently imagineeing a new attraction for you!

    Please enjoy all the other attractions in fabulicious Vasooki-land!

  10. #10

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    Re: Has Disney learned its lesson?

    Quote Originally Posted by Grandicorney View Post
    Based on the plans Disney has previewed in their Cellar in DCA, I don't think so.

    Sun Wheel to Mickey's Fun Wheel is going to be pretty much the same ride with fresh paint and Mickey added.

    Orange Stinger to Silly Symphony Swings is more work but still the same ride when they're done.

    Same thing for Mulholland Madness if they go through with that.

    I don't think the new entrance will really add anything to the park, especially when you consider that one of the focal points, the Carthay Theatre will be eye candy only, it wont be a functional theatre. The Red Cars sound fun but why aren't they being used park wide to address the "flow" issue. As it stands now if you want to get from the entrance to Toy Story or Screamin' the only option is to hike. At least in DL you have to option of the Main St. vehicles to get you a 3rd of the way in many cases or hop on the RR and reach distant attractions that way.

    They've been left with a real mess to build on. It's expensive and painful to tear down working attractions but I think they're going to have to get a little more aggressive with the 'dozer if they want to end up with a really great park.
    GC, I really agree with you.

    Pressler and Eisner are the ones who made the mistakes with DCA, DSP, and HKDL, they were the ones who needed to learn the lessons, and even with both of them gone from Disney, neither have fessed up to messing up with their build on the cheap, if it's good enough for 6 Flags, and run 'til failure mentality. Now that they have left, DCA will still be struggling with the crappy park layout, no central hub that gets all guests to the center of the park, lack of a berm, lack of the magical tunnel entrance that DL has, lack of proper "Weenie" placement, Lack of a central hub iconic landmark, lack of sufficient viewing space for any type of water show, lack of cute little waterways with natural type settings, which are abundt in DL, huge part of the property which serves no purpose for ANY type of attraction during the majority of the operating day, and then only used for a nighttime show, parade route that has been visable before entering the gates will now cut across the park in an awkward manner. And still DCA lacks for sufficient trees shading and other vegetation, which is a MAJOR part of what make DL so special.

    Yes, current management has admitted the failure of DCA, also working on HKDL, and trying to do something with DSP. HKDL, although sparse, still has a good layout, and good plan for expansion, not sure about DSP, and with DCA, management STILL is not doing enough to correct the problems of the existing park space. And who is to know what lambasted mistakes future Disney Management might make. If Eisner and Pressler had Disney operating blindfolded and with both arms tied behind it's back, at least the blindfold is off now. BUT with DCA, both arms are still tied behind their back, because of the horrible infastructure that Pressler and Eisner bestowed upon it.

    The current management is doing just about all they can with DCA's entry, in order to turn it from the current "Contemporary Concrete" and "Ultra Ugly Lighting" theme in the entry area, into a 1930's era Hollywood. However, BECAUSE DCA was not given a proper entry area from it's inception, many of the problems with today's entry area will forever be much less welcoming and much less charming than what Walt fashioned, directly across the esplanade. Even with the ingenious idea from Imagineering to extend the entry of DCA out into the esplanade, it just will continue to be lacking.

    New management does appear to have some good ideas for the new parcel of land that will be usurped by DCA, with Radiator Springs (but PLEASE!!! DON'T call it Carsland) And some major new construction on existing DCA land sounds extremely promising for Ariel, and her new dark ride! BUT the rest of Paradise Pier????????? I am EXTREMELY disappointed in what Disney has planned! Paradise Pier will STILL basically look like the Carnival Crap we have today.

    IT is inexcusable for Disney to continue operating a ferris wheel and a coaster that make it look like 6 Flags, Knott's, or any other county fair. Slapping Mickey on the ferris wheel, and placing Goofy and Woody in the Carnival games is as good as Disney saying "I GIVE UP" with Paradise Pier". PP is A CRAPPY THEME AND HAS NO PLACE IN ANY DISNEY PARK!!! It is incredibly frustrating that no one at Disney has the guts to make ANY TYPE OF SERIOUS CHANGE to the one single area of DCA which is to blame for the majority of criticism for why DCA is not nearly as special or magical as DL.

    Mr. Iger, Tear Down this Pier
    1.COVER the Coaster! No Disney Coaster should look like a Coaster!
    2.FAREWELL to the Ferris Wheel! OrdinaryCounty Fair Crap doesn't belong in a DisneyPark!
    3.BOOM down goes the Maliboomer. Knott's and Six Flags are calling.
    4.BEE glad when you can say Orange you glad the Stinger's gone!
    So Bad that it fits the Tacky Route 66 theme AND the flimsy fair theme!

  11. #11

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    Re: Has Disney learned its lesson?

    Quote Originally Posted by Theophilus Carter View Post
    I think it's Walt Disney Studios Park("Disney Studios Paris"?).

    DCA isn't the only park to be undergoing major changes, there's a rumor that HKDL will be getting $645 million to add three new lands, and Disneyland Paris and Walt Disney Studios Park will probably get some of the newer stateside attractions like TSMM and TLM. So, yes, I think they've learned their lesson, the Disney name won't sell inferior products.

    A lot of the concepts that had been planned for the various parks may be reevaluated due to the economic downturn. We'll see how much actually survives. The Disney Decade was shut down during a less serious economic slump.

  12. #12

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    Re: Has Disney learned its lesson?

    Quote Originally Posted by Vasooki View Post
    Actually, have you seen a baby giraffe and its bottle? It might actually suck more that DCA did.
    hahaha! wow

  13. #13

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    Re: Has Disney learned its lesson?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aladdin View Post
    Pressler and Eisner are the ones who made the mistakes with DCA, DSP, and HKDL, they were the ones who needed to learn the lessons, and even with both of them gone from Disney, neither have fessed up to messing up with their build on the cheap, if it's good enough for 6 Flags, and run 'til failure mentality. Now that they have left, DCA will still be struggling with the crappy park layout, no central hub that gets all guests to the center of the park, lack of a berm, lack of the magical tunnel entrance that DL has, lack of proper "Weenie" placement, Lack of a central hub iconic landmark, lack of sufficient viewing space for any type of water show, lack of cute little waterways with natural type settings, which are abundt in DL, huge part of the property which serves no purpose for ANY type of attraction during the majority of the operating day, and then only used for a nighttime show, parade route that has been visable before entering the gates will now cut across the park in an awkward manner. And still DCA lacks for sufficient trees shading and other vegetation, which is a MAJOR part of what make DL so special.
    Agreed, with one addition: although Eisner and Pressler are gone, their management structure and many of their key management personnel remain, along with their corporate culture. They still act like a branding company interested in a quick ROI, and still have a major case of denial about what has creative legs long term. (It wasn't the tooth fairy who made John stand in front of the camera and gush glowingly over a certain recent direct-to-video. )
    Last edited by Mr Wiggins; 11-30-2008 at 06:42 PM.
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    - Neil Gabler


  14. #14

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    Re: Has Disney learned its lesson?

    Wow. Another DCA bashing thread. How very clever and original.
    Looking for the truth about giraffes? http://www.menacinggiraffes.blogspot.com/

  15. #15

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    Re: Has Disney learned its lesson?

    Quote Originally Posted by sunnygirl View Post
    Wow. Another DCA bashing thread. How very clever and original.
    I think this one is more focused on whether or not Disney is going to be giving us any further reasons to bash a single park that intensely, and the overall consensus so far seems to be a no, which I'd think would be good news to you.


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