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  1. #1

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    DL's future impact on WDW

    With so much coming to DLR over the next few years, the problems that WDW has, and the lack of improvements and new attractions expected at WDW, things don't seem to bode well for the mouse's biggest kingdom.

    There are many on the boards who would argue that DL is already the superior resort. While I think that's debatable and a little dubious, clearly the gap in terms of number of offerings is going to close over the coming years, and I think that a strong arguement could be made that, though still smaller, DL's quality will certainly be much better.

    Eventually it would seem like the word will get out about how cool the DLR is, and the new DCA should help spread that word even faster. More and more people from around the country and world may start choosing DL over WDW. Obviously the hope is that Disney sees more total guests, but how much of an impact will this have?

    Also, imagine if in 2016 or so DL adds an amazing third gate. Then you'd really have a competion with DL having three quality gates, compared to WDW's four more mediocre parks. Additionally, WDW seems to be facing the same problem that EuroDisney faced, of over building on hotels, which makes it a financial liability in some ways. It also soon will have more competition coming from its Florida neighbors and new parks around the globe. Will Disney be forced to continue to keep DLR a west coast secret?

    So how do you see the DLR effecting WDW as it grows? Is the competition going to hurt WDW or force it to meet the quality standards we want to see? Or will it have little impact at all?
    The Mickey audience is not made up of people; it has no racial, national, political, religious or social differences or affiliations; the Mickey audience is made up of parts of people, of that deathless, precious, ageless, absolutely primitive remnant of something in every world-wracked human being which makes us play with children’s toys and laugh without self-consciousness at silly things, and sing in bathtubs, and dream and believe that our babies are uniquely beautiful. You know…the Mickey in us.
    -Walt Disney

  2. #2

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    Re: DL's future impact on WDW

    First off, WDW doesn't have 4 mediocore parks. Magic Kingdom, Epcot, Animal Kingdom, and Hollywood Studios are 4 well done parks that had a lot of effort and budget put into them. Now there have been some glaring errors in use of the money and effort, such as Animal Kingdom's remarkable talent for having an overbuilt queue for an underwhelming ride (Kali River Rapids), or Magic Kingdom's outright refusal to have any theme that isn't based on a recent animated movie just to name a couple. We might have giant diagreements with what actually gets put out, but to call it 'mediocore' is not deserved IMO. Even Stitch's Great Escape, such as it is, took a certain amount of planning and work that I don't think you'd see in any other non-Disney American park. I'm not trying to defend anything by saying that, but I'm very careful not to lose perspective.

    That being said, WDW knows what's going on in Disneyland. What Jay Rasulo's done with the management of the Parks & Resorts division has made WDW not knowing what's going on Disneyland nearly impossible.

    What we also need to remember is that basically from 1995-2004, WDW grew by leaps & bounds in terms of attractions & entertainment while Disneyland basically fell into stagnation and disrepair. The period from 1999-2004 was especially tough with any and all efforts pointed towards Resort Expansion at the expense of what was crumbling, fading, breaking down & burning out inside Disneyland. Now it looks like 2005-2013 will be a terrific time for the Disneyland Resort in terms of growth of quality of attractions & entertainment.

    So what will WDW do in the face of that? Will WDW fall into similar stagnation and disrepair? Well, if you look at WDW today, the seeds of that are sure being sown. All they need to do is continue to do absolutely nothing for another 4-5 years, and WDW will see its own version of Disneyland's Pressler days when pricing schemes, instead of actual content, was the primary driver of attendance. You say that couldn't happen? Looking at construction schedules, for a major attraction of some kind to open in the next 4-5 years, it needs to be being planned out now and there isn't one single word of anything. I think great concern about that is indeed warranted.

    American Idol will arrive just in time to be an over-marketed flash in the pan that'll give the marketeers a wonderful chance to put still more trademarks in WDW marketing, but what exactly is it going to add to a WDW experience? Not a whole lot. It's going to take a great deal of con-artistry to get people to come to WDW for that. Can't wait to see it.

    These pricing schemes and discounted packages being offered is only the beginning for WDW if it continues down the road it appears to be on. Waiting a few years is only make the problems much worse than they already are. The time for concern is now before the real embarassment starts.

    "Who among you is wise and understanding? Let him show by his good behavior his deeds in the gentleness of wisdom." -- James 3:13

  3. #3

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    Re: DL's future impact on WDW

    Ok, perhaps mediocre is too harsh of a word, but clearly you understand the concerns and when you have to fill up tens of thousands of hotel rooms, and you have that much property, a little neglect will do much more damage than it did at DL and take much longer to fix. Add in a bad economy and it starts to make you have serious concerns about WDW. TDO seems concerned too, but I worried that they're not just concerned, but that they're scared, and that's a bad state of mind to be in when trying to plan for the future.

    Anyways, my bigger question is really. If WDW does stagnate, and DLR with its better DL and possibly two very good parks to go along with it, does have a really good next ten years; how big of a hole might WDW find itself in, and will the country as a whole start to see DLR as the superior resort?
    The Mickey audience is not made up of people; it has no racial, national, political, religious or social differences or affiliations; the Mickey audience is made up of parts of people, of that deathless, precious, ageless, absolutely primitive remnant of something in every world-wracked human being which makes us play with children’s toys and laugh without self-consciousness at silly things, and sing in bathtubs, and dream and believe that our babies are uniquely beautiful. You know…the Mickey in us.
    -Walt Disney

  4. #4

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    Re: DL's future impact on WDW

    As long as Disneyland is OK than great.

    I think WDW will do just find, once DCA is all finished then WDW will proably do something drastic to improve there park.

    Times are tuff right now can't judge during this time!
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  5. #5

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    Re: DL's future impact on WDW

    UncleBob, how realistic is this 3rd gate for 2016? I think WDW should worry even without it.

    And PeopleMoverMatt mentioned that this being WDW's version of the Pressler era. But the problem with that is.. Pressler is gone. So why is this "mediocre" treatment of WDW taking place?

    And by mediocre, I mean attractions like American Idol and nothing else. Universal's Harry Potter machine is cranking. What's WDW's answer? Surely they're cooking up SOMEthing right?


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  6. #6

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    Re: DL's future impact on WDW

    Since I have never been to the Walt Disney World Resort in person, I have no right to say whether the DLR is superior to WDW on any level.

    So take the following commentary with a grain of salt.

    In the short term WDW will be feeling more hurt than DLR because a larger portion of guests there in Florida are having a full-blown vacation, compared to a large reliable population of SoCals making the Disneyland Resort their 'staycation' of choice. I know I fall under that category. The DLR has more of a local following to carry it through a recession which appears to be far from over.

    But the recession won't change the fact that the resorts are 3,000 miles away from each other. How much money would Disney have to throw at DCA to make a Florida resident decide to visit DLR instead of WDW for the year 2012 or 2015? It works the opposite way too: what is WDW going to do to finally convince me, a SoCal resident less than 15 minutes away from DLR, to visit their Florida resort? I can tell you that my parents' opinion hasn't changed in ten years' time. They are still convinced that "It's all the same there!" (and the irony is, every year that sentiment is becoming more and more true).
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  7. #7

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    Re: DL's future impact on WDW

    Both resorts have little new announced for next year. At WDW we're getting two new stage shows, AI and the Stitch show. That's all right, I suppose, but when will we get new rides? At least DCA has exciting new attractions in the next decade. What about WDW? Are they really ready to let their biggest resort stagnate? What kind of a business plan is that?

    I heard even the Little Mermaid clone for WDW may not show up. It wouldn't cost that much more to build one in WDW too, but we may never see it. Unbelievable; we can't even get clones, let alone original rides? And speaking of clones, they put Star Tours II on hold. A Star Tours sequel will be an enomorous shot in the arm for both resorts. The project is currently on the shelf. Flabbergasting.

    This is a company with enormous resources and no guts. A $60 billion company that is running scared and seems to think that sitting on your laurels -- while the competition improves -- is the smart way to go. Incomprehensible.

    I'm planning to go to both resorts next year. But after that, if I can only afford to go to one early in the next decade, why on earth would I go to WDW when DLR will be the only one with cool new rides?

  8. #8

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    Re: DL's future impact on WDW

    I'm not too worried about WDW. The are moving in the right direction. Have you seen EPCOT without the giant wand? It's like a brand new park! Plus, their Magic Kingdom has a tree house without fiberglass figures and a working People Mover. If the maintence trend continues, they'll be fine.

    I'm far more worried about Disneyland. While WDW loses with their Fantasyland, they win with their Tomorrowland and their Frontierland. Disneyland still needs major areas restored and/or improved, whereas WDW just needs some maintence.
    it's a sale of candy and a sale of plush, it's a sale of toys and disney stuff
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    Re: DL's future impact on WDW

    Quote Originally Posted by Lore View Post
    While WDW loses with their Fantasyland, they win with their Tomorrowland and their Frontierland. Disneyland still needs major areas restored and/or improved, whereas WDW just needs some maintence.
    Perhaps they win with having a fully operational Tomorrowland, but they lose major points from me for having too many tooned up, uninspiring attractions that aren't begging me to do again.


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  10. #10

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    Re: DL's future impact on WDW

    Quote Originally Posted by Coheteboy View Post
    Perhaps they win with having a fully operational Tomorrowland, but they lose major points from me for having too many tooned up, uninspiring attractions that aren't begging me to do again.
    I didn't say they win by much We have too much cartoony stuff too like Buzz and Nemo, and HISTA and Innoventions aren't that repeatable. Both Tomorrowlands have dropped in theme and maintence, but without the People Mover and the rockets behind rocks on the ground, Disneyland's Tomorrowland has it's weenie broken.
    it's a sale of candy and a sale of plush, it's a sale of toys and disney stuff
    there's so much that we sell, that it's time we tell, it's a plush plush sale!

  11. #11

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    Re: DL's future impact on WDW

    ^ Yeah, broken weenies are never a good thing...

    Is WDW making a bad decision by choosing to remain stale for so long? Yes.
    Is DLR going to have a boost in sales over the next few years? Yes
    Does WDW have anything to really worry about in the near future? NO.

    A vacation to the Walt Disney World Resort is a staple of American culture and it has become that way by persistently providing quality, unique, and magical (not to mention countless) guest experiences that cater to every denomination imaginable. That will never change.

    There is a certain draw to WDW that exists in our society today that whether you believe it or not, is etched into our psyche, and coming from someone who's 20 minutes from the DLR, I feel it too. My first trip to WDW was in 2005 and although my family and I had burned ourselves out on research and planning and budgeting, we were still excited. We weren't excited about the rides we were going to get on or the shows we were going to see, we were excited about going to "Disney World," an almost etherial entity that up until that point was all but unreachable.

    My point is, us Americans will always strive for a vacation at "Disney World" and so, there will always be a steady cash flow for our sister-parks on the eastcoast. I don't believe that they are in any danger of buckling whatsoever.

    That being said, BRING ON DCA 2.0!
    Last edited by Sir Didymus; 12-05-2008 at 02:34 AM.

  12. #12

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    Re: DL's future impact on WDW

    Yes, Sir Did, WDW has become an institution, and not just for Americans, either. For Quebecers, Florida is like our winter home. I heard so much french spoken in WDW, I thought I was back in Montreal, lol.

    But is the resort's status destined to never change? I think the danger is in Disney starting to believe the things you wrote, to a point where they they think they can just neglect WDW, in the smug assurance that "they'll always come to Disney World."

    WDW became an institution by earning that status, not by sitting on its laurels. The tourism and theme park business is more competitive than ever, with almost evey corner of the globe vying for a piece of that giant pie. I think the company better start looking at the complaints about WDW on this site and elsewhere, and wonder if this is the canary in the coal mine, warning about future trouble.

    I think it is.

  13. #13

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    Re: DL's future impact on WDW

    Personally, I don't think it'll have alot of effect. People who live close to WDS will keep going there. People who live close to DL will keep going there. As far as tourists are concerned, they might not break with their tradition of going either to WDW or DLR but they might. I think that there might be some impact but that impact will be small.
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  14. #14

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    Re: DL's future impact on WDW

    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Bob View Post
    With so much coming to DLR over the next few years, the problems that WDW has, and the lack of improvements and new attractions expected at WDW, things don't seem to bode well for the mouse's biggest kingdom.

    There are many on the boards who would argue that DL is already the superior resort. While I think that's debatable and a little dubious, clearly the gap in terms of number of offerings is going to close over the coming years, and I think that a strong arguement could be made that, though still smaller, DL's quality will certainly be much better.

    Eventually it would seem like the word will get out about how cool the DLR is, and the new DCA should help spread that word even faster. More and more people from around the country and world may start choosing DL over WDW. Obviously the hope is that Disney sees more total guests, but how much of an impact will this have?

    Also, imagine if in 2016 or so DL adds an amazing third gate. Then you'd really have a competion with DL having three quality gates, compared to WDW's four more mediocre parks. Additionally, WDW seems to be facing the same problem that EuroDisney faced, of over building on hotels, which makes it a financial liability in some ways. It also soon will have more competition coming from its Florida neighbors and new parks around the globe. Will Disney be forced to continue to keep DLR a west coast secret?

    So how do you see the DLR effecting WDW as it grows? Is the competition going to hurt WDW or force it to meet the quality standards we want to see? Or will it have little impact at all?
    So many assumptions, so little time to giggle at their lack of veracity.... Amazing new third gate....
    Hotels can be closed or refurbished in down times. Hotels cannot be booked over capacity during up times.
    Just a few examples.

    WDW gets improved whenever its real competition starts upgrading. DL is not competition. Geographic demographics determine each's market.
    For example, assume HarryPotterLand is a rousing success. Expect a few Narnia attractions to pop up.

    And do remember, so much is coming to DLr because DCA sucked so badly that it was not ever going to return its invesment without a near-complete overhaul.
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  15. #15

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    Re: DL's future impact on WDW

    Quote Originally Posted by dl_appurtenant View Post
    Personally, I don't think it'll have alot of effect. People who live close to WDS will keep going there. People who live close to DL will keep going there. As far as tourists are concerned, they might not break with their tradition of going either to WDW or DLR but they might. I think that there might be some impact but that impact will be small.
    Well, obviously that would be the hope, and the more I think about it the more I think that's probably true. But I could also see a lot of people in the middle of the country who usually go to WDW every few years deciding instead to go to DLR for all the new offerings. Obviously Disney hopes that they will increase the total number of guests visiting the US parks, so that as DLR's attendance grows it doesn't cause WDW's to go down. Hopefully that will be the case, and WDW does have a lot to offer outside of its parks and many other theme parks in the area that actually act somewhat synergistic with it.

    In some ways all the expansion at Universal may actually help WDW's business and could even hurt DLR. I'd hate to see DCA becoming a really nice park and everybody but Cali locals visting Harryland instead. If they get a bunch of people coming to Orlando for HP, many will visit WDW too even if it doesn't have any huge new attractions. They just need to give good enough reason to stay at a WDW resort, and discounts work for that. I know people don't like that strategy for WDW, but it probably will hold them over in what seems like is going to be a slower period for a while. I just hope DCA is busy enough for them to keep pushing ahead with expansion at the DCA and DL and reason further expand the DLR.
    The Mickey audience is not made up of people; it has no racial, national, political, religious or social differences or affiliations; the Mickey audience is made up of parts of people, of that deathless, precious, ageless, absolutely primitive remnant of something in every world-wracked human being which makes us play with children’s toys and laugh without self-consciousness at silly things, and sing in bathtubs, and dream and believe that our babies are uniquely beautiful. You know…the Mickey in us.
    -Walt Disney

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