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  1. #1

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    What defines a Disneyland park vs. a Disney park?

    While reading that interview with Tom Delaney, one comment he made really struck a chord with me in regard to a lot of discussions here on MC. He said that DCA was designed to not be like DL, but compliment it. It's pretty obvious that's what they attempted. What struck me about it though is the idea of what defines a Disney park vs a DL or MK park?

    Obviously eveything that makes a Disney park is part of a DL park; but what aspects of a DL park don't need to be part of a Disney park while still keeping it recognizeable as a Disney park? Conversely, what things that are part of DL cannot be abandoned without leaving the park no longer recognizable as a Disney product?
    The Mickey audience is not made up of people; it has no racial, national, political, religious or social differences or affiliations; the Mickey audience is made up of parts of people, of that deathless, precious, ageless, absolutely primitive remnant of something in every world-wracked human being which makes us play with children’s toys and laugh without self-consciousness at silly things, and sing in bathtubs, and dream and believe that our babies are uniquely beautiful. You know…the Mickey in us.
    -Walt Disney

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    Re: What defines a Disneyland park vs. a Disney park?

    That is a REALLY good question. The thread gets an immediate 5 stars from me, though I'm really too conflicted on the issue to have any coherent input yet. I'll really look forward to reading (and, realistically, participating in) the ensuing discussion.


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    Re: What defines a Disneyland park vs. a Disney park?

    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Bob View Post
    what defines a Disney park vs a DL or MK park?
    Walt...
    First Visit at the age of 12, July 17, 1968.
    First Ride, The Disneyland and Santa Fe Railroad.
    BRING BACK THE PEOPLE MOVER!

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    Re: What defines a Disneyland park vs. a Disney park?

    Quote Originally Posted by ttrocc7007 View Post
    Walt...
    Good point. =/


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    Re: What defines a Disneyland park vs. a Disney park?

    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Bob View Post
    While reading that interview with Tom Delaney, one comment he made really struck a chord with me in regard to a lot of discussions here on MC. He said that DCA was designed to not be like DL, but compliment it. It's pretty obvious that's what they attempted. What struck me about it though is the idea of what defines a Disney park vs a DL or MK park?

    Obviously eveything that makes a Disney park is part of a DL park; but what aspects of a DL park don't need to be part of a Disney park while still keeping it recognizeable as a Disney park? Conversely, what things that are part of DL cannot be abandoned without leaving the park no longer recognizable as a Disney product?
    Um, he likely meant complement it.

    I think Tom Delaney attempted defense of the complementary parks is specious. Most have themed lands. most have highly themed attractions. They break the mold in layout and general them: While Disneyland/MKs are "all things Walt Disneyish," DCA is all things California-y," Disney Studios is all things Studio-y,' EPCOT is "all things Worldly."

    Another way of viewing the complementary parks is "All things that we can't physically fit into the DL/MK park close by, held together by the general theme and partitioned into separate themed lands."

    The characters are the real key here. You don't find them at non-Disney-brand parks, and Disney being sold to some other company that only wants the TV/Film side and sells off the vacation destinations to Company B will be hard-pressed to find a buyer that will acqiesce to any arm-twisting on the use of characters that Company B doesn't own.
    Legendary failure has met the Disney park that initially eschews the Disney characters. Recovery occurs when the light is seen.
    "Here You Leave the World of California Today and Enter the World of, um, er, California Today."

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    Re: What defines a Disneyland park vs. a Disney park?

    Sorry, I've always been a terrible speller. Spell check is my friend.
    The Mickey audience is not made up of people; it has no racial, national, political, religious or social differences or affiliations; the Mickey audience is made up of parts of people, of that deathless, precious, ageless, absolutely primitive remnant of something in every world-wracked human being which makes us play with children’s toys and laugh without self-consciousness at silly things, and sing in bathtubs, and dream and believe that our babies are uniquely beautiful. You know…the Mickey in us.
    -Walt Disney

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    Re: What defines a Disneyland park vs. a Disney park?

    Well, spell check won't catch "compliment" - that's the word for saying nice things about someone. "Complement" is the appropriate word in this case, like sed said. But it was misspelled in the article, too, so don't beat yourself up over it.


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    Re: What defines a Disneyland park vs. a Disney park?

    While Sediment makes some real good points, I think I should maybe expand my answer a bit.
    The gift that was Walt Disney himeslf, was the gift of a fully mature man with the heart of a child, and with that heart the understanding of waht magic is and can appear to be to children of all ages.
    Yes, it took a money master like brother Roy to realise the dream, but the dream itself is what made the original Disneland happen.
    The concept of what can appeal to both adults, as well as children SIMUTANEOUSLY is what is most lacking.
    First Visit at the age of 12, July 17, 1968.
    First Ride, The Disneyland and Santa Fe Railroad.
    BRING BACK THE PEOPLE MOVER!

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    Re: What defines a Disneyland park vs. a Disney park?

    I agree that characters are important, but they were never a big part of Epcot and it always felt like a Disney park to me. So I don't think that the answer is just that it needs Disney characters to be a Disney park. I think a park with very few characters could feel far more like a Disney park than DCA does.
    The Mickey audience is not made up of people; it has no racial, national, political, religious or social differences or affiliations; the Mickey audience is made up of parts of people, of that deathless, precious, ageless, absolutely primitive remnant of something in every world-wracked human being which makes us play with children’s toys and laugh without self-consciousness at silly things, and sing in bathtubs, and dream and believe that our babies are uniquely beautiful. You know…the Mickey in us.
    -Walt Disney

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    Re: What defines a Disneyland park vs. a Disney park?

    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Bob View Post
    I think a park with very few characters could feel far more like a Disney park than DCA does.
    I agree wholeheartedly. While the characters aspect of the experience is very important to some people - and validly so - I'd argue that they could also turn some people away. If you want to build a theme park that's more "mature" than Disneyland, part of the solution would be, IMO, reducing the character presence. (Not at trying to call character-lovers immature, just so we're clear.) The fact of the matter is that much of the general public associates Disney cartoons with childhood. If you want to appeal to those people without compromising what it means to be a Disney theme park, you need to explore a largely untouched market and develop themed attractions that have a more "adult" form of magic.

    But I'm still avoiding answering the fascinating question this thread poses. Meditate on this I will.


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    Re: What defines a Disneyland park vs. a Disney park?

    That's an excellent point Ttrocc, I do think that appealing to multiple generations is one of the keys. That might be a fundamental requirement to be a Disney park, as it really is something that defined Walt's entire philosophy in so many ways. Anyone think it's not?
    The Mickey audience is not made up of people; it has no racial, national, political, religious or social differences or affiliations; the Mickey audience is made up of parts of people, of that deathless, precious, ageless, absolutely primitive remnant of something in every world-wracked human being which makes us play with children’s toys and laugh without self-consciousness at silly things, and sing in bathtubs, and dream and believe that our babies are uniquely beautiful. You know…the Mickey in us.
    -Walt Disney

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    Re: What defines a Disneyland park vs. a Disney park?

    The castle.

    It's not a Disneyland park without having guests walk down Main Street and see a castle at the end.

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    Re: What defines a Disneyland park vs. a Disney park?

    Quote Originally Posted by stitchon View Post
    The castle.

    It's not a Disneyland park without having guests walk down Main Street and see a castle at the end.
    Agreed, that's definitely a big requirement for a Disneyland-style park. But what are the requirements for a non-Disneyland Disney park?


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    Re: What defines a Disneyland park vs. a Disney park?

    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Bob View Post
    While reading that interview with Tom Delaney, one comment he made really struck a chord with me in regard to a lot of discussions here on MC. He said that DCA was designed to not be like DL, but compliment it. It's pretty obvious that's what they attempted. What struck me about it though is the idea of what defines a Disney park vs a DL or MK park?
    I didn't read the interview. But forgive me. This is the dumbest thing I've ever heard about DCA.

    HELLO -- isn't that what the other major park Knott's Berry Farm is?

    Instead of complimenting DL they should have made a park that is very similar to it. If I want to go to a park that's not like DL I'll go to Knotts, Magic Mountain, or USH. Just continue making quality parks like DL and not some competitor park knock-off and Disney might find that the crowds will come.

    Sorry for the rant. But purposely building a park to not emulate the quality of DL was imo a mistake.

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    Re: What defines a Disneyland park vs. a Disney park?

    Quote Originally Posted by Datameister View Post
    Agreed, that's definitely a big requirement for a Disneyland-style park. But what are the requirements for a non-Disneyland Disney park?
    Immersive areas with attractions based around a cohesive theme that plugs into the overall theme of the parks.

    I'll use California Adventure and an example:

    Sunshine Plaza: Not Disney. California isn't a concrete wasteland.

    Hollywood Pictures Backlot: An Inbetweener. California is the capital of movies, and the main street area is immersive, but the movie-based attractions don't fit with a Backlot theme. How hard is it to have a props display in Hollywood and Dine?

    Condor Flats: Disney. Soarin' fits with the theme of the area, which in turn fits with the theme of the park. The rockwork and airstrip (if you aren't paying attention to the Grand Californian in the background) are the right type of theming for Disney.

    Grizzly Peak: Disney. Grizzly River Run fits with the California Forest theme, and is arguably the most immersive area in the park.

    Paradise Pier: An inbetweener. The character additions and cheap looking facades throw off the idea of a Victorian Seaside Pier, but the idea is "Disney-ized Pier" right now I guess. Most of the rides on the pier both fit and don't fit. The new Fun Wheel and Swings will fit the theme, as will Goofy's Sky School and Little Mermaid, but the current attractions are too cheap-looking to fit in a Disney park. However, the area DOES fit into the idea of California's history, as boardwalks and the beach are well known in CA.

    Bugs' Land: Immersive, yes. Fitting in with the DCA overall theme? No.

    Carsland: Immersive? It'll most certainly be. But, as with Bugs' Land, it has nothing to do with the message of the park.

    Pacific Wharf, Golden Vine, and Bay Area fit the overall theme of the park and actually do feel immersive, especially Pacific Wharf, but they have no major attractions or anything to further the theme in any way. Especially since Golden Dreams and Seasons of The Vine closed.

    So in Disney terms, DCA is only partially a Disney park. It's immersive in lots of places, but some of the attractions make no sense in their current environment.

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