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  1. #16

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    Re: DCA down to just ONE FP during the week

    Quote Originally Posted by Giant Panda
    That's true for a lot of things in life. Hopefully the pain motivates you to learn something about what you do not know ..... nobody has to be ignorant about FP ....

    And what is the reason to throw out the whole program? I missed something ....... or are you saying "the pain" is the reason? I think too many people feel something other than pain when they know how to use FP.
    Well, I'm not ignorant about FP. I just don't like it.
    1. It takes away the queue experience, which is the MAJOR difference between a Disney Theme Park and other mildly amusing parks. The queue is meant to be part of the attraction. The queue keeps people inside and off the walkways, which should be very attractive to guests on hot or wet days.
    2. FP makes at least one person in the party (perhaps the whole party) have to walk twice to a remote attraction.
    3. It fills the walkways. The ironic part of this is that on very busy days, FP is "needed" but fills the walkways even more than usual. Meanwhile, on less crowded days, FP is not needed and the walkways are even more clear than they otherwise would be. Basically, the FP program is a crowd variance enhancer.
    4. It is unfair to the ignorant. Why should some ignorant tourist have to learn something that he might never need again after his visit? Meanwhile, the local APer finds this information extremely valuable for the frequent trips during the busiest times of the year, as he will use this information over and over and over. It's not an excuse to be ignorant about everything, but selective ignorance about topics of trivial use in order to be knowledge-filled about more important topics is perfectly rational. FP information has different value to different people. One reason why I suggest in many past threads that AP holders should not be allowed to use FP, except for possibly their first three or so visits (when the AP program is most valuable to Disneyland).
    Last edited by sediment; 09-14-2005 at 07:46 AM.
    "Here You Leave the World of California Today and Enter the World of, um, er, California Today."

  2. #17

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    Re: DCA down to just ONE FP during the week

    Quote Originally Posted by sediment
    Well, I'm not ignorant about FP. I just don't like it.
    1. It takes away the queue experience, which is the MAJOR difference between a Disney Theme Park and other mildly amusing parks. The queue is meant to be part of the attraction. The queue keeps people inside and off the walkways, which should be very attractive to guests on hot or wet days.
    Yeah, maybe. But if this were really so, then in the off-season when the lines are short, they should artificially slow down the lines so people can experience the queue. You know, there are only 100 people in front of you for Indy, but you will need to wait 20 minutes to get on so you can better enjoy the queue.

  3. #18

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    Re: DCA down to just ONE FP during the week

    Well, I've never used a FP in DCA yet, I usually just walk right on.... so no big deal to me

  4. #19

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    Re: DCA down to just ONE FP during the week

    Quote Originally Posted by HydroGuy
    Yeah, maybe. But if this were really so, then in the off-season when the lines are short, they should artificially slow down the lines so people can experience the queue. You know, there are only 100 people in front of you for Indy, but you will need to wait 20 minutes to get on so you can better enjoy the queue.
    "They" don't have to do anything.
    Don't think that I don't enjoy the queue, even if it is a walk-through. I'll let people pass me, in order to get fully immersed in the experience, since that was the Imagineers' goal of the queue. I'll get on the ride portion of the attraction eventually.
    "Here You Leave the World of California Today and Enter the World of, um, er, California Today."

  5. #20

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    Re: DCA down to just ONE FP during the week

    I think that what it is meant by pain is that lines have gotten substantially longer since the use of Fastpass. Now, most attractions have two lines. Splash Mountain, Thunder Mountain, Pirates of the Caribbean, Haunted Mansion, Jungle Cruise, Star Tours, Soarin' Over California, etc. (just to name a few). Before the use of Fastpass, both lines were used as regular stand-by lines. Because both lines are being used which means the line moved twice as fast. I remember when Splash Mountain's "crowded" day line was 60 minutes. Now, take the number of people in those two stand-by lines, close one of them to make way for Fastpass, then put all those people into one line, and you've just doubled the wait time. Now, I'm sure everyone knows now how Splash Mountain's usual "crowded" day line is almost always 120 minutes long.

    I went to Grad Nite in 2004. Fastpass was not being used. There were hundereds of thousands of students there from all over. The wait time for Splash Mountain was 55-60 minutes loong and never once reached the 75 minute mark or the 120 minute mark. My only conclusion on why the line went by so fast is because Fastpass was not being used and both stand-by lines were being used. Case in point, without Fastpass wait times could possibly be lessened by double. When I say possible, I mean since every day this past summer it has been extremely crowded at Disneyland so Fastpass or no Fastpass might not have made a difference.

  6. #21

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    Re: DCA down to just ONE FP during the week

    I agree that Disneyland without Fastpass would be great. It dictates your entire day at the park by telling you to be at a certain point at a certain time (Most tourists and even some locals probably don't know that you can use your fastpass after the written time and it will be accepted.)

    Just like the day that all the fastpass machines in the park were down due to a computer error, I can see that lines will become shorter. Also, I'm sure Disney will save money by removing the system. The cost of paper + having to have extra cast members have to explain fastpass and/or verify they are the correct time.

    It's good to know that ToT won't have Fastpass, maybe Disneyland can learn from DCA!
    "You tried your best and you failed miserably. The lesson is, never try." ~ Homer Simpson

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  7. #22

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    Re: DCA down to just ONE FP during the week

    I don't think the lines get as long because guests simply do not want to wait that long anymore. Go to Splash, see 90-minute wait, and go to HM or Pirates instead.

    Secondly, only when there are no FastPass guests in the queue at the spot where the lines join will there be a significant difference in the wait time at any given point in the stand-by queue.

    A couple more suggestions for FastPass:
    1. Fewer FP tickets handed out.
    2. Only so many FP tickets per hour are handed out, so there will be some available at 3PM.
    3. Only one FP ticket per person for each ride. No going back for seconds on the same day.
    4. Better mix-in control at the mix-in spot. Too bad if a FastPass guest is there. The mix is at least 5-1 in favor of stand-by, no questions. If guests returned in the recommended time slot, then there wouldn't be an issue with mix-in, since it would be the same ratio as the daily ride capacity to number of FP tickets. But people run late and by 7PM or so, the FastPass line is full of late arrivals.
    5. Require the return in the time slot. Make the time slot wider if necessary.

    Lastly, there wasn't FastPass at one time, for, say, the first 40 years or so. It wasn't as if the place was a failure before.
    "Here You Leave the World of California Today and Enter the World of, um, er, California Today."

  8. #23

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    Re: DCA down to just ONE FP during the week

    Quote Originally Posted by sediment
    2. Only so many FP tickets per hour are handed out, so there will be some available at 3PM.
    If they did this, I can totally see people lining up at, for example, 1:30 to get fastpasses beginning at 2:00. Then we will need fastpasses to avoid the line to wait for fastpasses.

  9. #24

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    Re: DCA down to just ONE FP during the week

    Quote Originally Posted by DLResident
    Before the use of Fastpass, both lines were used as regular stand-by lines. Because both lines are being used which means the line moved twice as fast. I remember when Splash Mountain's "crowded" day line was 60 minutes. Now, take the number of people in those two stand-by lines, close one of them to make way for Fastpass, then put all those people into one line, and you've just doubled the wait time.
    I may be wrong, but isn't this logic a bit faulty? Think about it. (I know these numbers are completely unrealistic, but I'm just using them as an example) Let's say Splash has an hourly capacity of 1000 people. I don't think it would make a significant difference if there were 1 or 2 lines. The number of people able to get on the ride at one time will remain the same. You would be waiting in a longer line if there was only 1, but wouldn't it move twice as fast? Conversely, if there were 2 lines you would be waiting in a line half the size, but it would halve the number of people being loaded from your line. Am I making sense? Let's say there was one line, and you were the 1000 person in line. It would take one hour to get on the ride. If there were two lines, then you would be the 500th person in one line, but the hourly capacity of the ride would remain 1000. So 500 people in each line. So you would still get on in an hour...

    Obviously, FP changes things, and does make the Standby line longer. I'm just pointing out that I think that particular arguemnt may not hold water. Did I make any sense?

  10. #25

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    Re: DCA down to just ONE FP during the week

    Quote Originally Posted by grvtydefy
    I may be wrong, but isn't this logic a bit faulty? Think about it. (I know these numbers are completely unrealistic, but I'm just using them as an example) Let's say Splash has an hourly capacity of 1000 people. I don't think it would make a significant difference if there were 1 or 2 lines. The number of people able to get on the ride at one time will remain the same. You would be waiting in a longer line if there was only 1, but wouldn't it move twice as fast? Conversely, if there were 2 lines you would be waiting in a line half the size, but it would halve the number of people being loaded from your line. Am I making sense? Let's say there was one line, and you were the 1000 person in line. It would take one hour to get on the ride. If there were two lines, then you would be the 500th person in one line, but the hourly capacity of the ride would remain 1000. So 500 people in each line. So you would still get on in an hour...

    Obviously, FP changes things, and does make the Standby line longer. I'm just pointing out that I think that particular arguemnt may not hold water. Did I make any sense?

    I had to read your post three times to understand it.

    I was just saying what I remember it being like before Fastpass came into play. That when two lines were used for stand-by, the line went faster. Now, because Fastpass takes up one line and stand-by takes one line, theoretically, those two stand-by lines got squashed into one and since Fastpass people get priority, the stand-by line takes longer because Cast Members have to let Fastpass people through first and sometimes there are dozens of fastpass people wating which means you have to wait for them to go through before you can, so that's why it takes longer.

  11. #26

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    Re: DCA down to just ONE FP during the week

    Quote Originally Posted by DLResident
    That when two lines were used for stand-by, the line went faster. Now, because Fastpass takes up one line and stand-by takes one line, theoretically, those two stand-by lines got squashed into one and since Fastpass people get priority, the stand-by line takes longer because Cast Members have to let Fastpass people through first and sometimes there are dozens of fastpass people wating which means you have to wait for them to go through before you can, so that's why it takes longer.
    Yeah, I get your post. It does make sense. All I was saying is that I don't think the NUMBER of lines has anything to do with, nor does the "squashing" of standby lines. If there were still 2 standby lines and they had built a 3rd FP line, I don't think anything would be different...

  12. #27

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    Re: DCA down to just ONE FP during the week

    If you keep your physical place in a stand-by queue constant, say, from the point that the queue enters the structure, then a not-FastPass World will allow a shorter wait from that point, vs a FastPass World.
    One thing a FastPass queue does is that it makes the wait from any point in the queue not an accurately predictable time. The wait time from any point depends on the number of FastPass holders that cut in line in front of you. To reduce complaints, the "approximate wait time" sign will always be conservative. By how much not too many know. "90 minutes" could mean 70 or 60 minutes. Some insider might know better.
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  13. #28

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    Re: DCA down to just ONE FP during the week

    Quote Originally Posted by spacemountain85
    If they did this, I can totally see people lining up at, for example, 1:30 to get fastpasses beginning at 2:00. Then we will need fastpasses to avoid the line to wait for fastpasses.
    Not one of my better ideas. There should be some way to allow the 2PM-arriving guest to get FastPasses, if it's supposed to be an equal-opportunity feature of the park.
    To continue with the barrage of "Improving FP" ideas (thread hijack):
    6. Limit the total number of FastPasses per guest per day.
    7. Allow guests to get all their FastPasses at kiosks located all over the park. You can get your 10:30AM Splash FP, your 1PM Space FP, your 3PM BTMRR FP, etc., all at the same time. There will be plenty of time between them to explore the non-FP parts of DL.
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  14. #29

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    Re: DCA down to just ONE FP during the week

    ^ In theory that's a good idea. But what about being spontaneous? I don't want my visits to be THAT structured. Sure, we all have rides that we want to go on first, or last, etc. But to have your whole day planned out ... not for me.


  15. #30

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    Re: DCA down to just ONE FP during the week

    Quote Originally Posted by DLResident
    I think that what it is meant by pain is that lines have gotten substantially longer since the use of Fastpass. Now, most attractions have two lines. Splash Mountain, Thunder Mountain, Pirates of the Caribbean, Haunted Mansion, Jungle Cruise, Star Tours, Soarin' Over California, etc. (just to name a few). Before the use of Fastpass, both lines were used as regular stand-by lines. Because both lines are being used which means the line moved twice as fast. I remember when Splash Mountain's "crowded" day line was 60 minutes. Now, take the number of people in those two stand-by lines, close one of them to make way for Fastpass, then put all those people into one line, and you've just doubled the wait time. Now, I'm sure everyone knows now how Splash Mountain's usual "crowded" day line is almost always 120 minutes long.

    I went to Grad Nite in 2004. Fastpass was not being used. There were hundereds of thousands of students there from all over. The wait time for Splash Mountain was 55-60 minutes loong and never once reached the 75 minute mark or the 120 minute mark. My only conclusion on why the line went by so fast is because Fastpass was not being used and both stand-by lines were being used. Case in point, without Fastpass wait times could possibly be lessened by double. When I say possible, I mean since every day this past summer it has been extremely crowded at Disneyland so Fastpass or no Fastpass might not have made a difference.
    I'm sorry, I can't let this go. How many students were there at your grad night? And the pre-FP wait on Splash on busy days was only one hour?
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