French Market switches from Silverware to Plastic Utensils

[Quacky4Donald]

Originally Posted by bfdf55

I'd rather pay $60 to visit a park that was worth it as opposed to $5.42 for one that wasn't. So, I'd rather that Disney eliminate all the discounts and get their quality back up to the level that made the parks special in the first place!

Not saying you're not being truthful, but it's a lot easier to say/type something like that when the chances of what you're stating above happening are slim to none.

- Joe

[techskip]

I went from this...

Originally Posted by MrLiver

To quote Yogi Berra, ""Nobody goes there no more, it's too crowded!"

Call me crazy, but wouldn't the long lines DESPITE the high prices be proof of success?

To this...

Really? You don't even get table service at French Market. French Market reminds me more of the cafeteria at K-Mart than a real restaurant. Food is about the same quality too.

And all I could think of was "which costs more... Kmart's cafe or French Market?" At which point I laughed because long lines are proof that a lot of people are hungry at the same time. I've been there when it is DEAD... does that mean it's a failure?

Originally Posted by rgrant999

Passed on to the consumer? It is "passed" on to the union pay increases (in a declining revenue environment which makes them even more ridiculous), the ever increasing cost base, the higher percentage of AP's vs. domestic tourists (who spend both less on admission and food/merch per cap), the increased OI needed to hit the compounded ROI numbers for all of the recent investments (yes, Fantasmic! upgrades, Pixie Hollow, etc. aren't free), etc., etc.

prices were raised 30% and according to Liver the crowds continue to come which is why I asked about the necessity of this decision if it is on a permanent basis. 30% increase and we have all expressed that 30% was not an increase in food quality or service quality (the menu is a rehash of ingredients found throughout the park, if anything they cut costs with a more uniform menu). As to the unions... union hourly pay is crap in comparison to salary... which leads me to...

As costs increase and revenue decreases, you look for every way to cut expenses to try to continue to grow profits. You will see much more of these cuts in the coming year (not just at DL, but in all companies) just trying to keep pace with the revenue declines. The next shoe to drop will be significant cast reductions - always the fastest way to have a dramatic impact on a budget. Look for much smaller parade staffs, entertainment reductions, elimination of greeter positions, etc, etc.

There are always shift cuts every off season. The "next shoe to drop" will likely be salary because they can't ditch the union. They tend to have a mass exodus of management every time the economy tanks... happened every time before so I am pretty confident it would happen again if the economy is that bad. As to the contracts... if the unions are lucky they will get a 3% raise... that was pretty much the standard... and the unions are not nearly as strong as you give them credit for but that is another topic entirely. Disney really doesn't pay much for it's staff, be it salary or hourly. As they point out if you don't want the job, plenty more want to work for the Mouse. And they're right... plenty of people always want to work for the Mouse.

It's really a sign of a bad economy when CM's cling to their jobs. The pay is horrible, hours can be long, in many cases you would make a great deal more working for McDonalds and put up with a lot less crap. But when times are tough you can rely on the Union because all you have to do is the bare minimum and not be stupid and they can't fire you... low pay but job security... that is why people stay there in tough times.

Again I don't want to drag this discussion into either the Debate Lounge or the Litterbox with a prolonged commentary on Unions and their effect on Disneyland... I think it's comical that a 30% increase in the price of food followed by the decision to go to plastic (again if it is permanent, no clue if it is or not)... isn't in any way perceived as greed.

As to AP's I would LOVE to see the numbers on how much they spend and how much of a percentage of the daily attendance they are. Obviously Disney doesn't need them year round... the lower (and likely most popular) echelons have block out dates. You also have the effect of "I got in free so I can afford to buy x and y". Which seems like a drop in the bucket on a single trip but when continual purchases are made throughout the year I would venture to say Disney turns a profit. Given the tough times I would even question who spends more on the resort, the vacationing family or the AP who continually goes. Obviously the AP's turn a profit, or they would cancel the program... after all crowds are buying AP's so logically it's a success.

[Mr Wiggins]

Originally Posted by aashee

The prices were recently raised by quite a bit, they take away refills on the beverages and now they give us plastic utensils? AT what point to guests realize they are getting screwed? All of these recent changes are making it rather obvious.

Amen.

[bfdf55]

Originally Posted by techskip

As to AP's I would LOVE to see the numbers on how much they spend and how much of a percentage of the daily attendance they are. Obviously Disney doesn't need them year round... the lower (and likely most popular) echelons have block out dates. You also have the effect of "I got in free so I can afford to buy x and y". Which seems like a drop in the bucket on a single trip but when continual purchases are made throughout the year I would venture to say Disney turns a profit. Given the tough times I would even question who spends more on the resort, the vacationing family or the AP who continually goes. Obviously the AP's turn a profit, or they would cancel the program... after all crowds are buying AP's so logically it's a success.

The thing concerning AP's is that the company gets a lot of money up front, which gives them a sense of satisfaction. They apparently don't consider the long-term detrimental effects of excessive wear on the park from the large number who make the most of their AP's. So, they get $200 up front but then give away many times that value.

The assumption that they will make up the difference by increased guest purchases is probably a fallacy. But while they may claim that benefit, all they are really looking at is the ~$60-100 million they get up front.

Certainly the crowds are buying the AP's. They loose nothing in that. The only way the Disney can benefit from them is if the guests use them less than their actual value. And the chances of that are very remote.

So, as time goes by, Disney will continue to get less and less, more guests will get into the parks cheaper, and the quality of the parks will suffer.

[SCUBAbe]

Originally Posted by techskip

As to AP's I would LOVE to see the numbers on how much they spend and how much of a percentage of the daily attendance they are. Obviously Disney doesn't need them year round... the lower (and likely most popular) echelons have block out dates. You also have the effect of "I got in free so I can afford to buy x and y". Which seems like a drop in the bucket on a single trip but when continual purchases are made throughout the year I would venture to say Disney turns a profit. Given the tough times I would even question who spends more on the resort, the vacationing family or the AP who continually goes. Obviously the AP's turn a profit, or they would cancel the program... after all crowds are buying AP's so logically it's a success.

I spend far less on food and drinks in he park. They have changed it so much I enjoy eating away from the parks now.

As far as spending...it depends. i have gone and spent $300+ on a day trip and I have gone for three days and only spent about $100.00 in the parks...like I said, due to their changes I spend elsewhere now.

[TacAlert]

Originally Posted by DisneyIPresume

Even though Tomorrowland Terrace and Hungry Bear were the McDonalds of Disneyland, even they were one step better because the CMs actually bussed your tables versus the guest having to throw the trash out themselves.

You throw your trash away at these two restaurants? I just leave it on the table. That is why they have people there to clean the tables. You must be the one who returns the shopping cart to the cart return area, right?

[techskip]

Originally Posted by bfdf55

The thing concerning AP's is that the company gets a lot of money up front, which gives them a sense of satisfaction. They apparently don't consider the long-term detrimental effects of excessive wear on the park from the large number who make the most of their AP's. So, they get $200 up front but then give away many times that value.

The assumption that they will make up the difference by increased guest purchases is probably a fallacy. But while they may claim that benefit, all they are really looking at is the ~$60-100 million they get up front.

How is it a fallacy?

Simple logic; people purchase AP's because it is cheaper for them if they wish to visit multiple times. Remember not everyone who owns an AP is a local, there is a mix of both local and out of state... but for the sake of this discussion we'll consider everyone local. It can then be considered logical that they will in fact visit more often, and a standard visit of once a year or every other year would then increase to multiple visits in one year. Prior to their purchase how much did they spend on their one or two visits per year, or one visit every other year? Now that they have the option of multiple visits how much do they purchase? How often do they purchase food? How often do they purchase souvenirs, be it collectibles or birthday presents, or Christmas presents... because without the AP Disney would be out ALL of that money. Now add that into the initial upfront cost given to Disney, and suddenly it is comparable to the expenditures of a family on vacation. If anything it crowds the park to the point of needing blackout dates. Per Mr Liver's logic a crowd is a measure of success. This means that AP's pad the numbers providing the illusion of a crowd, and what they lack in spending on ticket sales they make up for on the expenditure of food, souvenirs etc. You also have the "hourly" visitors who do not even spend a full day at the parks. They may go once a week, ride for a couple hours, and go home. Their presence is an opportunity for revenue that Disney would otherwise not have.

Certainly the crowds are buying the AP's. They loose nothing in that. The only way the Disney can benefit from them is if the guests use them less than their actual value. And the chances of that are very remote.

As you can see from my example above the revenue generated by repeat visits would allow Disney to maintain a constant source of income even in the toughest of times. The existence of black-out dates further proves that Disney is not fully reliant on AP's, but requires their support in the off season to supplement the lack of traditional tourism income.

So, as time goes by, Disney will continue to get less and less, more guests will get into the parks cheaper, and the quality of the parks will suffer.

I agree that the quality of the parks has suffered, but in the years past that you speak of the company was not turning a double digit profit while raising all prices and not reinvesting in the parks. If the profit margins weren't so high I would be in complete agreement that it was AP's who have caused the issue. However AP's are repeat patrons and their dollars supplement the slow times and inflate the good times... otherwise people wouldn't say "vote with your wallet and don't go" because if their dollars didn't matter why would that be said? What I have seen recently is a surge in re-investment that previously was almost non-existent. I watched the park almost die, and then come back to life as new paint was applied and a little TLC was given to each attraction and each land.

As a final note I would lay odds that non-blackout dates that have AP's supplementing the numbers generate a great deal more income then they would without the AP's there.

[techskip]

Originally Posted by SCUBAbe

I spend far less on food and drinks in he park. They have changed it so much I enjoy eating away from the parks now.

As far as spending...it depends. i have gone and spent $300+ on a day trip and I have gone for three days and only spent about $100.00 in the parks...like I said, due to their changes I spend elsewhere now.

So in 4 days you spent $400... and how often would you go to the park if you didn't have an AP? Every time someone enters Disneyland it is an opportunity for Disney to make money. The more often one is present, the better Disney's chances of making a couple bucks. Blackouts are there because when it's crowded Disney doesn't need the padded numbers the AP's provide. But when the attendance is down that AP cushion is welcomed back in again.

I knew a ex Skip who was in the park for 45 minutes to purchase a $300 Christmas present... without his AP he would have gone elsewhere. I've known couples who have a romantic dinner at the Blue Bayou, without their AP they wouldn't have bothered to go and Disney would not have their contribution. Birthday presents, romantic short trysts, Chirstmas presents, the list goes on... these are the "exceptions" these are the times when they are in the park for a matter of hours and make a decent purchase that otherwise would not have been made. This isn't counting those who continually buy drinks, or food, or their own collectibles and souvenirs. That's my point... it adds up... and given the number of AP's and Disney's continued success in these tough times it appears to be adding up nicely for Disney.

[Disneyland Daddy]

Originally Posted by Quacky4Donald

However, dealing with reality and the price it costs to pay someone to wash and clean said silverware, buy new silverware after it has been "accidentally" thrown away (as was said above), and the like as opposed to being able to save money by purchasing plastic utensils I'd opt for the latter over the former.

Hey Joe! How goes it.

In regard to this portion of what you stated earlier my response is: Don't you think Disneyland Resort might have industrial dishwashers as opposed to people washing the dishes? Maybe not initially in 1955, but I'd say that today in 2009, they probably do.

[aashee]

So because it's so affordable to go to Disneyland we should expect everything to be done on the cheap? I guess when I use a coupon at a restaurant I should expect lesser service or plastic settings.

Disney has set the bar for their product. If you like the bar to be constantly lowered then I'm sure Disney appreciates it.

[Disneyland Daddy]

Originally Posted by aashee

So because it's so affordable to go to Disneyland we should expect everything to be done on the cheap? I guess when I use a coupon at a restaurant I should expect lesser service or plastic settings.

Disney has set the bar for their product. If you like the bar to be constantly lowered then I'm sure Disney appreciates it.

I agree with you Chad. Dustysage made a great post earlier too.

My thought is that Walt Disney didn't skimp. Walt Disney was QUALITY with a capital Q. Walt would see this as, 'done on the cheap', to quote you.

[techskip]

Originally Posted by aashee

So because it's so affordable to go to Disneyland we should expect everything to be done on the cheap? I guess when I use a coupon at a restaurant I should expect lesser service or plastic settings.

Disney has set the bar for their product. If you like the bar to be constantly lowered then I'm sure Disney appreciates it.

I will concede that an AP is a loss of ticket sales revenue but I counter with the comment that an AP is a continued patron, a long term investment, which can be counted on unlike the fickle tourism crowd. Without AP's the park would at times be less crowded... and at other times likely empty since the AP is usually purchased because the individual enjoys Disneyland but would otherwise be unable to afford frequent visits. I HIGHLY doubt that ticket prices would drop even if the AP was completely eliminated... so you would be left with a high ticket price and even less people inside in the off season to spend money. If you ask me that would be a loss, not a gain...

[SCUBAbe]

Originally Posted by techskip

So in 4 days you spent $400... and how often would you go to the park if you didn't have an AP?

If I did not have an AP We would go maybe once a year. i would probably buy a park hopper and only spend one day. Maybe $100.00 on food and drinks would be spent, but I doubt it.

So i will concede Disney make more off me through the AP. We only started having multi day trips and staying in the hotels after getting an AP. We never used to leave the parks, but as the quality goes down i will seek it elsewhere....as far as dining goes. If the entire parks reaches a level I don't like I will stop going all together. After all...it's only a theme park. there is more to life.

oh, and how often do i go? Not very often. I have a PAP and we go once every few months...we went on may once. We went in October jus6 about every weekend and one of those was for three days. We went in December once for a day trip and our next trip will be sometime this month. So from may08 when we got the Ap we have been for a total of 7 days.

[disneyfan07]

i second the thought of as long as the food is good (which it usually is any time I am at disneyland) I dont care if the silverware is plastic.
Seriously folks. its not going to ruin my experience at the park(s) I will still have a good time and enjoy my meal(s)

okay, i admit. two exceptions: plaza inn and blue bayou: those two restaurants probably should not make the changeover from actuall place settings to plastic. however, the changeover(again the two exceptions ) makes sense:
look on the bright side: less money, water, and soap used in washing the dishes

[Kasey]

Originally Posted by SCUBAbe

I spend far less on food and drinks in he park. They have changed it so much I enjoy eating away from the parks now.

As far as spending...it depends. i have gone and spent $300+ on a day trip and I have gone for three days and only spent about $100.00 in the parks...like I said, due to their changes I spend elsewhere now.

We don't eat at the Park as much as we once did. We tried Storyteller's on December 18th and my son was served five ravioli with six cloves of garlic...for almost sixteen dollars. My 6'4" twenty-three year old son looked at the plate and started laughing.