Page 10 of 135 FirstFirst ... 78910111213203560110 ... LastLast
Results 136 to 150 of 2011
  1. #136

    • now that i see you ♥
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Hill Valley, CA
    Posts
    1,620
    Blog Entries
    4

    Re: Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Episode 4 A New Hope

    Backstory is a tough thing for me to choose a side on. On the one hand, I love the disconnected pieces and individual stories each ghost must have; but on the other hand, well, I like trying to find things that connect them all together. (Hence why I started my still unfinished story. [Update on that: I lost my only copy of the manuscript. I was doing it by hand because it was easier, and now....sigh. I have to start over. HBG, are you indexing the other two threads, or would you possibly know where in what thread my little homespun Leota verses might be? The rest I can rewrite but I want those back.]) I think subtleties are best when it comes to incorporating master theming in the ride. Case in point, the Constance/George portraits. It wasn't until one of us went "Hey wait, isn't that...?" that we all realized the connection. Not that the change should be made, but I'd love to see the ballroom redone to be a wedding reception. Granted, that changes the entire ride, but if it could be done in a sly way...the cake to a wedding cake with the Birthday Girl* blowing the miniature groom off of the top of the cake....a banner of some sort that says "just married"....a pile of presents in the corner....The transition would be extremely easy, but again, something that would be better off undone.

    *I have a friend who got a copy of a 1975 operating guide for the Mansion and who let me have a look at it. In it there is an explanation of each scene and descriptions of the characters, effects, etc. There were a few things that I found interesting:
    --The endless hallway is described as being more of an impending doom thing than the house transforming itself. It says something along the lines of the hallway "beckons guests towards their doom" or something similar.
    --Leota is spelled Liotta. Yes, like Ray Liotta.
    --The Birthday Girl ghost is called the Ghostess in the OG. Really! I'd put up scans if the person let me, but alas, I don't think he will.
    So yeah. Interesting little tidbits there.
    Last edited by CaitlinMcFly; 01-26-2009 at 02:43 PM. Reason: double entendre that needed fixing because it was a double entendre and not what I meant AT ALL.
    dreams. come. true.

  2. #137

    • Inhospitable about happy
    • Offline

    Join Date
    May 2006
    Posts
    5,533

    Re: Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Episode 4 A New Hope

    Here y'are, darlin'

    Son of "Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect," or The Thread 2

    As for that 1975 SOP handbook, don't fret yourself if your friend won't make you a copy. It's been available at DB.com for years:

    DoomBuggies > Explore the history and marvel at the mystery of Disney's Haunted Mansion attractions!


    The thing about "no backstory" is not that it makes it shallower. Quite the opposite, it makes it deeper. We can't help trying to connect dots, to make sense of the data. By keeping tangible dots to a minimum, they invite more possibilities. That opens up a HUGE (and, personally, favorite) topic...

    +++++++++++++++++++

    The Haunted Mansion is blue. Phantom Manor is pink.

    Part One

    It is my opinion that the Haunted Mansion has an essentially masculine character, while Phantom Manor is essentially feminine. Note: this has NOTHING to do with appeal. I have to say that because, inevitably, I get a chorus of retorts along the lines of "Well, I'm a guy and I LOVE Phantom Manor," etc. That's irrelevant. That's not what I'm talking about.

    The "story" of the HM is not a story at all, it's you-going-through-the-haunted-house. The experience. That is the story. You are the main character. The story is...life, living, being here. That doesn't mean it's a non-fiction story, at least not quite.

    What it is, is allegory. Every haunted house ever made, from those rubber-mask garage quickies you made for Halloween as a kid, right on up to Disney's Haunted Mansion itself, is essentially the same: It's a one-way trip through a dark, twisted corridor past scary scenes, until you emerge on the other side, preferably through a different door than the one you came in, so as to keep it a corridor in form. Your only task is to keep going. The only way you can fail this task is if you collapse in panic and someone has to come and get you. That's an allegory of life itself. You're born, and you continue past one scary unknown after another until you leave this world. As long as you keep going, most people judge that you've succeeded in the basic task. Life—this world—with all its scary unknowns, didn't ultimately defeat you, because you didn't collapse: you kept going.

    Just like real life, you are never given enough data to make completely secure, informed decisions, but you have to make them the best you can anyway. You never know if the powers that be are benign or malign, or some mixture, but you have to put some trust in them regardless. (Those powers are the Ghost Host in the case of the HM, and at the other end of the spectrum, the bratty kid next door—the one you suspect has a sadistic streak—who made a haunted house in his garage and invited you to go through it. Neither of them has really earned your trust, but trust them you must if you are going to keep going after you've gone through the door.)

    "C'mon, let's keep going" is Mike's mantra all the way through the Story and Song script. He's following a male role (typical enough for 1969) and poor Karen is a stereotypical female, being dragged along for the most part by Mike. They see frightening, threatening, and inexplicable things, and have to make ad hoc decisions ("Quick, in this doorway!" "Hold the candles; I'll try to open one of these windows") without knowing in advance if the decisions will make things better or worse. You do the best you can. You act. You face down your fears, and you survive.

    Now, all of that really plays to an essentially masculine impulse, IMO. It's you against the world, and you have to act in it and against it. You. The world. Those are THE two characters in the masculine psyche.

  3. #138

    • Inhospitable about happy
    • Offline

    Join Date
    May 2006
    Posts
    5,533

    Re: Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Episode 4 A New Hope

    The Haunted Mansion is blue. Phantom Manor is pink.

    Part Two

    Females have a different outlook than males. The world is not entirely foreign. It's home. And relationships with all the other people going through life are just as essential to the mystery as anything else. Not action, but being is the thing.

    When little girls make haunted houses, what you typically get is theater. She's the mistress of some dark castle (or whatever) and she'll meet you at the door, and likely have you sit down (not "keep going") while some mystery or tragedy is unfolded before you. You're given lots of plot elements ("Here's the magic box where the witch's key was kept" or whatever.) You're invited to relate.

    Phantom Manor is all about relating. Poor Melanie. Why look, she's crying. What's that all about? Yep, we're tilting pink here. Relate, relate, relate. It's not your story: it's her story. PM is theater. If you don't give a crap about Melanie, then a lot of PM is as tedious as it can be, isn't it?

    When the debate about how much backstory (if any) the HM should have comes up, I can't escape the feeling that escalating backstory emasculates the HM. The more it "belongs" to Constance and her story, the less it is my story, my experience of survival within the spook-infested world. Oh boy, I get to be a spectator. Meh.

    Marc Davis, as we all know, was a big advocate of "experience, not story." We know too that he strongly disliked PM. Well, what did you expect from someone who thinks a guy in his unnerwear on a keg 'o dynamite is funny, and who tries to fill up the place up with drunks and dames?




    Guy.

  4. #139

    • Member of Baxter's Army
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Haunted Mansion
    Posts
    2,389

    Re: Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Episode 4 A New Hope

    Quote Originally Posted by goofypirate View Post
    Aside from the HBG what other changes would you like to see made that could strengthen the backstory of the HM? I'd like to see something done in the ball room or the loading area but I'm not sure what.
    As I mentioned in thread 3 the HM has no real back-story It is a retirement home for ghosts. There are story elements but there is no traditional story being told within the ride.

  5. #140

    • =)
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    13,290

    Re: Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Episode 4 A New Hope

    Excellent posts, as always, Dan. I can see inherent strengths in both approaches, which is why I'm all for HM and PM going all-out in their own ways and not attempting to do what the other already does perfectly well. (Of course, I haven't experienced PM in person, so maybe I'd hate it, but I suspect I would just think it was a very different attraction and a positive contribution to the Disney park canon, but not a replacement for or improvement upon the original HM in any way.)


  6. #141

    •   
      MiceChat Round-Up Crew
      MiceChat Moderator
    • Unnatural and dreadful
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    United States
    Posts
    7,936

    Re: Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Episode 4 A New Hope

    Forgive me, as at first this will seem unrelated, but I'd argue the "female" approach to creating a haunted house attraction can be disproved in case of a horror-themed maze they have been doing the past few years at Knott's Scary Farm, conceptualized and designed by a female park employee and designer. Granted, it isn't the same "haunted house" archetype as HM, but it is indeed a series of rooms with a loose overall backstory (serial killer with a doll obsession) that features zero characters you sympathize with, but a series of experiences, with characters that can alternately seem creepy and vulnerable at the same time. Granted, this isn't a ride, but a walkthrough, and I don't disagree with the HM and Phantom Manor being conceived differently as HBG2 theorizes...but just a observation I thought I'd make as a bit of evidence to the contrary of the male/female storytelling method.

  7. #142

    • now that i see you ♥
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Hill Valley, CA
    Posts
    1,620
    Blog Entries
    4

    Re: Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Episode 4 A New Hope

    Quote Originally Posted by HBG2 View Post
    You have NO idea how much this helps me. I couldn't remember my structure, which I wanted to duplicate when I rewrote it, and this helps immensely. Thank God I'm a chatterbox about stuff I'm enthusiastic about.
    Quote Originally Posted by HBG2 View Post
    As for that 1975 SOP handbook, don't fret yourself if your friend won't make you a copy. It's been available at DB.com for years:

    DoomBuggies > Explore the history and marvel at the mystery of Disney's Haunted Mansion attractions!
    Now see, I didn't know that. I was just enthusiastic that I was able to hold something I found historical.

    Quote Originally Posted by HBG2 View Post
    The thing about "no backstory" is not that it makes it shallower. Quite the opposite, it makes it deeper. We can't help trying to connect dots, to make sense of the data. By keeping tangible dots to a minimum, they invite more possibilities.
    I like the different thoughts on the topic, neither of which I had really thought about before in such a gender differentiation. I definitely see that though.
    dreams. come. true.

  8. #143

    • A Honorary Autobot
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Orange County, CA
    Posts
    564

    Re: Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Episode 4 A New Hope

    You heard it here, folks. HBG2 just called all of France female.

  9. #144

    • Legends never die...
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    20 Mins. from the DLR
    Posts
    267

    Re: Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Episode 4 A New Hope

    I could totally say something to that... but I will leave the French their dignity, haha.
    My Inspirations:
    Thurl Ravenscroft and Paul Frees
    AND
    Robert and Richard Sherman

  10. #145

    • Inhospitable about happy
    • Offline

    Join Date
    May 2006
    Posts
    5,533

    Re: Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Episode 4 A New Hope

    Quote Originally Posted by darkfairycthulu View Post
    Forgive me, as at first this will seem unrelated, but I'd argue the "female" approach to creating a haunted house attraction can be disproved in case of a horror-themed maze they have been doing the past few years at Knott's Scary Farm, conceptualized and designed by a female park employee and designer. Granted, it isn't the same "haunted house" archetype as HM, but it is indeed a series of rooms with a loose overall backstory (serial killer with a doll obsession) that features zero characters you sympathize with, but a series of experiences, with characters that can alternately seem creepy and vulnerable at the same time. Granted, this isn't a ride, but a walkthrough, and I don't disagree with the HM and Phantom Manor being conceived differently as HBG2 theorizes...but just a observation I thought I'd make as a bit of evidence to the contrary of the male/female storytelling method.
    No problem, and I'm throwing something out there that I realize is bound to be at least a little controversial. It isn't quite a matter of "storytelling," however. There are some women artisans who are pretty good at "thinking male," and vice versa (and I'm leaving the complication of hetero/homo orientation out of this, deliberately). It's not storytelling so much as what sort of mythical universe a work of art is evoking.

    The idea that men and women are the same except for some incidental plumbing, an idea that at one time was a dogma of modern feminism, has been abandoned by most everyone. Most people today do recognize that there is something essentially different in the way men and women think, feel, perceive.

    That being so, it is not surprising that ghostly stuff, like so much else, can come with pink or blue inclinations. Men tend to see the world as a place of testing, an implicit or potential foe, a risk. Women see the world as home, an extension of self, a web of relationships. Very different. When I notice that something is assuming one of these models of existence more than the other, I think that gender assignment is somewhere in the background, even if it's entirely unconscious.

    It's fun in the present case, because I think the two Disney HM models divide so neatly into the two genders. I also agree with Data that neither is "right" or "wrong," and that it's fun to have both.

  11. #146

    • Member
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    611

    Re: Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Episode 4 A New Hope

    On a different note...I just noticed that the Mansion is reopening on Feb. 14, Valentines Day.

    Could this be an intentional tie in to the Constance-Husband story arch?
    Siggy siggy sig sig.

  12. #147

    • now that i see you ♥
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Hill Valley, CA
    Posts
    1,620
    Blog Entries
    4

    Re: Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Episode 4 A New Hope

    Quote Originally Posted by Bubbadunne View Post
    On a different note...I just noticed that the Mansion is reopening on Feb. 14, Valentines Day.

    Could this be an intentional tie in to the Constance-Husband story arch?
    Hahaha, I thought about that too. Is there a specific day a ride is supposed to reopen, or just whatever estimated day they are to be finished? 'Cause the 14th is a Saturday.
    dreams. come. true.

  13. #148

    • Member of Baxter's Army
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Haunted Mansion
    Posts
    2,389

    Re: Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Episode 4 A New Hope

    An interesting observation I saw a George Washinton portrait identical to the Fort Wildernes /Attic one in a photo in the paper of President Obama meeting with somebody in the White House above the fireplace. Nothing too relevant just an observation.

  14. #149

    • Member
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    611

    Re: Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Episode 4 A New Hope

    Quote Originally Posted by BellhopPrincess View Post
    Hahaha, I thought about that too. Is there a specific day a ride is supposed to reopen, or just whatever estimated day they are to be finished? 'Cause the 14th is a Saturday.

    I'm not too sure. I saw the date on micechat's Dateline Disneyland article.

    Does anyone have any more info on the actual day the Mansion will re-open?
    Siggy siggy sig sig.

  15. #150

    • Inhospitable about happy
    • Offline

    Join Date
    May 2006
    Posts
    5,533

    Re: Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect Episode 4 A New Hope

    Quote Originally Posted by HMF View Post
    I saw a George Washinton portrait identical to the Fort Wildernes /Attic one in a photo in the paper of President Obama meeting with somebody in the White House above the fireplace.
    Seems like an uncomfortable place for a meeting.


    Back in the original Thread, we had an interesting discussion about the cabinet and drapes behind Mdm. Leota. I argued that what they represented was a "spirit cabinet," a standard fixture in many 19th-20th c. seances. The "cabinet" was usually more like a booth, with heavy drapery. Heh. Mighty convenient for hiding assistants and fake props. (If you want to look up that discussion, it pretty much begins here: Long-forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect? )

    Anyway, I've got a couple of items that pick up where that discussion left off. First, here's a TERRIBLE picture of some Séance circle concept art (looks like either X or Coats to me) that shows a ghosty shape emerging from the drapes. Maybe it confirms the "spirit cabinet" idea a little bit more? It's interesting, anyway.



    Second, I ran across this set of "spirit photographs" by a medium named William Hope, taken in 1920. Check it out as a slideshow; it's pretty entertaining.

    The spirit photographs of William Hope - a set on Flickr

    The only thing that's amazing about this "spirit photography" is that anyone could fall for such blatantly obvious fakery. Even if you're a true believer in ghosts and in seances, this is eye-rolling stuff.

    The real reason I've hauled up Mr. Hope's pictures, however, is that they provide unusually good, exact examples of the kind of thing the Imagineers had in mind when they designed the wandering Ectoplasm Ball in the Séance circle, both the old original (just a wandering light) and the new version (with a Face in it; debuted 6/12/06).



    Last edited by HBG2; 01-27-2009 at 07:13 PM. Reason: added date

Similar Threads

  1. [Chat] Long-Forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect vs The Army of Darkness, or the Thread 5
    By CaitlinMcFly in forum Disneyland Resort
    Replies: 2077
    Last Post: 10-08-2009, 02:45 AM
  2. Replies: 2011
    Last Post: 01-12-2009, 09:50 PM
  3. Long-forgotten Haunted Mansion Effect?
    By HBG2 in forum Disneyland Resort
    Replies: 2021
    Last Post: 07-24-2007, 11:15 AM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •