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  1. #91

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    Re: Fiasco to Park at the Parks - What can be done?

    As Zed sed :-)
    It seems most of the absolute, no-parking available days are the result of coincidence, like massive conventions, holiday weekends and very warm weather all happening simultaneously. Or the obvious crowded times of the year when plain common sense tells you that the park will be crowded, and attendee beware.
    The APs add cars, sure. But clearly they also add funds or Disney flat-out would cancel the program without a second thought. How many APers go to the parks and never buy a pin or a hot dog or a drink? I see a lot of APers do almost all of their gift shopping at the park. They bring friends and family, they keep interest in the parks up among their acquaintances, they keep the park busy on days when the tourists aren't around.
    I love the days we used to get when it was cold and cloudy and the park was virtually empty. But those days also remind me of the days when DL was going through a funding problem, when you could see patched ceilings and chipped paint on dozens of attractions and when nobody was loving the park, least of all its owners.
    Attendance=continued operation. It's a simple formula.
    I was at DL last Friday, the 16th. It was my son's birthday and we would have attended even if we didn't have APs (or even without the free BD thing) The lot was crowded, the park not as much. Busy, but not headache-inducing busy.
    Don't people expect Disneyland to be busy? Don't you think most people would pull in to an empty lot and think to themselves: "so what's wrong with this place, that nobody is showing up anymore?"
    So anyway, apologies for rambling here. Bottom line for me is that I think that if we expect the park we love to continue operating, we have to hope (and privately cringe) that the park continues to pull in maximum crowds.
    oh...I remember when I was a kid and there was just that one huge open parking lot. Now that was a lot of fun on a hot day!

  2. #92

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    Re: Fiasco to Park at the Parks - What can be done?

    Some interesting comments here.

    I can honestly say that we have only parked in the parking structure twice since it opened, and we have been AP'ers since the late 80's with a few of them being PAP's. Granted, we rarely stay for just a day.

    Since we mostly stay at the DLH or PPH, we just don't need to park in the structure.

    After reading some of these posts, the value of staying there (or anywhere with a shuttle) just increased!

    We just wrapped up our 4th MLK w/e with the NAMM convention as well, and it was a busy few days at the Parks. We couldn't see the parking structure from our room (DTD view), but we did notice the crowds near the Tram drop off area.

    I hope for you single-day'ers they figure something out. And quick!

    Yikes!

  3. #93

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    Re: Fiasco to Park at the Parks - What can be done?

    Quote Originally Posted by SnorkletsMom View Post
    As Zed sed :-)
    Don't people expect Disneyland to be busy?







    All of the "non AP'ers" that I know that occassionally visit the Park EXPECT two things.

    Crowds and expensive food.

    And every one that I know comes home saying what a great time they just had...

    They just don't worry about it. They go to have a good time.

    What a concept!!!


  4. #94

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    Re: Fiasco to Park at the Parks - What can be done?

    Well, I also know many people who will never go to DL because, "That place is so crowded and expensive." So I don't think that everyone just sluffs it off like that.
    The Mickey audience is not made up of people; it has no racial, national, political, religious or social differences or affiliations; the Mickey audience is made up of parts of people, of that deathless, precious, ageless, absolutely primitive remnant of something in every world-wracked human being which makes us play with children’s toys and laugh without self-consciousness at silly things, and sing in bathtubs, and dream and believe that our babies are uniquely beautiful. You know…the Mickey in us.
    -Walt Disney

  5. #95

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    Re: Fiasco to Park at the Parks - What can be done?

    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Bob View Post
    Well, I also know many people who will never go to DL because, "That place is so crowded and expensive." So I don't think that everyone just sluffs it off like that.
    I think some people can handle the crowds and still have a great time. It's just a matter of your own personnel comfort level. The same way some people thrive on the shopping insanity of black Friday, and others stay far away. I personally can't handle crowds that large, for me it's panic attack city. I prefer the park when it is quieter. Being an AP really helps so that I can still go to Disneyland but pick and choose the times when I am more comfortable going.

  6. #96

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    Re: Fiasco to Park at the Parks - What can be done?

    I spoke with a Non AP co worker today, he had traveled with out of town freinds to the park this past Sunday. While my co worker stated that the park was packed, they had gotten there early and had no problems parking in the main structure. They had a wonderful day and were able to ride all the attractions they wanted and utilized the fast passes as well (these are non regular non AP full paying visitors)
    When I was a younger I remember Disneyland always being crowded and that was before AP's and before fast passes, Way before. We stood in long lines and that was just part of the whole experience.

  7. #97

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    Re: Fiasco to Park at the Parks - What can be done?

    Quote Originally Posted by CAspace View Post
    When I was a younger I remember Disneyland always being crowded and that was before AP's and before fast passes, Way before. We stood in long lines and that was just part of the whole experience.
    I remember that too. I think the main reason is that admission costs were low enough to where many people could still go once every couple months or so. Not on the weekly level of many of today's APers, but frequent enough.

    Now single day admission prices are so astronomically high that it is impossible to visit Disneyland at the frequency people used to go prior to the AP.

    And to the poster who couldn't understand why people go to DL alone, many people go to DL alone myself included. Sometimes after a stressful day at work a spin on Space Mountain does just the trick! But usually it is to meet up with friends who are coming from other areas of so cal.

  8. #98

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    Re: Fiasco to Park at the Parks - What can be done?

    Quote Originally Posted by DisneyIPresume View Post

    And to the poster who couldn't understand why people go to DL alone, many people go to DL alone myself included. Sometimes after a stressful day at work a spin on Space Mountain does just the trick!

    But usually it is to meet up with friends who are coming from other areas of so cal.





    But then you wouldn't actually be going to DL alone??? LOL

    Yeah, I've been to the Park plenty of times solo (and for the duration) due to projects in the area, conventions, etc... Great time!

    It's all what you make of it!

  9. #99

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    It would be interesting to do a scientific survey of AP spending habits at DL. I have APs to both DL and Legoland so for comparison I can say:

    My family always eats at LL but rarely at DL simply because the food at DL is subpar, too heavy on meat and often has long lines or requires reservations to eat at a decent place (i.e. Cafe Orleans). We end up bringing food into DL to avoid the bad DL food. LL has some really good and healthy food options, and we actually look forward to eating there.

    My family rarely buys any merchandise at DL because most of it is poor quality. I would like to buy a nice Mickey Mouse tie but they're all cheap junk ones made in China. When they provide nice silk ones made in Italy then I'll buy one. The toys are similiarly cheap junk made in China with no little imagination or thought put into them. One of the few things I bough at DL, a couple of magic crystals, have just had their shops removed from the resort. Besides the crystals, I think we've just bought a couple of magnets and a couple of t-shirts for the kids over the past few years, and that's it.

    At Legoland, we always stop by the Big Shop to buy the well-crafted and high quality Lego sets or some other imaginative gift item the park provides for sale.

    For my family's experience, Legoland gets a lot of our money through their AP program, and Disney gets almost none. We wish we could spend more money at the park but Disney just doesn't provide good enough food or merchandise to buy. Your mileage may vary.

  10. #100

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    Re: Fiasco to Park at the Parks - What can be done?

    Quote Originally Posted by vfire View Post
    It would be interesting to do a scientific survey of AP spending habits at DL. I have APs to both DL and Legoland so for comparison I can say:

    My family always eats at LL but rarely at DL simply because the food at DL is subpar, too heavy on meat and often has long lines or requires reservations to eat at a decent place (i.e. Cafe Orleans). We end up bringing food into DL to avoid the bad DL food. LL has some really good and healthy food options, and we actually look forward to eating there.

    My family rarely buys any merchandise at DL because most of it is poor quality. I would like to buy a nice Mickey Mouse tie but they're all cheap junk ones made in China. When they provide nice silk ones made in Italy then I'll buy one. The toys are similiarly cheap junk made in China with no little imagination or thought put into them. One of the few things I bough at DL, a couple of magic crystals, have just had their shops removed from the resort. Besides the crystals, I think we've just bought a couple of magnets and a couple of t-shirts for the kids over the past few years, and that's it.

    At Legoland, we always stop by the Big Shop to buy the well-crafted and high quality Lego sets or some other imaginative gift item the park provides for sale.

    For my family's experience, Legoland gets a lot of our money through their AP program, and Disney gets almost none. We wish we could spend more money at the park but Disney just doesn't provide good enough food or merchandise to buy. Your mileage may vary.


    Hate China much?

    Tangent:

    I'm gonna have to say that MAJORITY of the merchandise at Disneyland is crap and not just because it's made in China. It's crap from the concept. Rainbow lightsabers? Chuck that stuff if they sell the official Star Wars ones in Tomorrowland! Spinning whatevers? All crap too.


    BUT, there's a lot of great stuff to get at disneyland if you know where to look. Unfortunately, most of it is pretty pricey.

    End tangent.


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  11. #101

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    Cool Re: Fiasco to Park at the Parks - What can be done?

    when you know its goin to be busy go early.we are ap holders and i check when there are convention or some other function goin on around DL.we then plan our day.if i think its goin to be to busy we plan a different day(but hey we went the first two days of the 50th celebration days wow with the people and the media thats was crazy and still had fun)

    when we do go we spend money.if you know where to look there are great items and food to buy.

  12. #102

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    Re: Fiasco to Park at the Parks - What can be done?

    Quote Originally Posted by Darkbeer View Post
    OK, there are less parking spaces at the Disneyland Resort now than a few years ago.

    The most obvious one is the shrinking of the Timon Lot. Just a couple of months ago it shrank again, this time for the World of Color equipment, supplies and parking for the construction workers.

    Part of the Simba lot (North end) that is usually used mainly for DtD parking is fenced off to allow for Grand California Valet Parking.

    And of course, the former location for the Grand Californian Valet Parking Lot is being used for the expansion to the Hotel and DVC units.

    And then there is the new Bakery building that is almost finished, located north of the current parking structure. (And on very busy days, Disney has used parts of the lot that is normally CM parking for additional guest parking).

    Add to that the fact that Disney has an agreement with the City of Anaheim to share parking lots. Many times Disney uses the convention center lot, but this weekend, the City needed parking for the NAMM show, and requested that part of the Simba Lot be made available to them, along with the Buzz Lightyear lot next to the Strawberry Field.

    So what to do?

    Long term, more parking will have to be built, and more than likely that will be going vertical with new parking structures.

    Short term.

    Working with the city to modify the parking lot sharing agreement is one possibility, and as mentioned above, using other large lots in the area, such as Angel Stadium and the Honda Center for overflow parking, and provide shuttles when you have a major convention and a busy holiday weekend at Disneyland.

    Add additional parking spaces at the Strawberry Field. That would require Disney to terminate its agreement with the Strawberry growers, and not sure how long the lease of the land for farming uses remains. It would be pretty easy to get the needed permits from the city, as the area is already zoned for parking.

    Speed up the completion of the Grand Californian Construction, as the hotel was built with underground parking, and the Valet Parking can move back, allowing the fences to come down in the Simba Lot and return the spaces to regular guest parking.

    Require more CM's to park at the Katella Lot on very busy days. This will open up some of the Simba Lot and make available much of the parking spaces to the north of the Parking Structure. But that would require Disney to make more shuttles available to the employees, and have more dropoffs than just the Lion King/Hotel Shuttle drop off area.

    If nothing gets done, the problem will get worse.

    When they start the CarsLand expansion, they will need the area currently fenced off in the Timon Lot for the project, and will need a place for equipment storage and Construction Worker parking (and Construction Workers have a clause in their union contracts that they get priority parking, as many of them bring heavy tools with them every day). I presume when that happens, that Disney will close off the remaining portion of the Timon to the public, and use that for the Construction workers.

    Also, when the DCA makeover is finished, the goal of the major improvements is to drive more ticket sells, aka crowds, which will need more parking spaces.

    Also, the city of Anaheim is planning to tear down the Parking Structure on Katella Avenue that is used primarily for Convention Center parking, and build a new hotel with a lot of additional convention meeting space, which is needed for the NAMM show and other events. Most folks expect that as part of the deal, the city will build more parking structure on the Convention Center property next to West Street (Which is the same street as Disneyland Drive, just a different name south of Katella). This might require one of the current structures to be torn down and replaced with a larger, taller structure.

    Also, if Disney green lights the Pumbaa parking structure, there will be the temporary loss of those spaces until the structure can be opened, so carefully timing and a quick build would be very helpful. Something like close the lot right after the NAMM show and try and have it built by Peak Christmas season. But if they want to go at least partially underground, similar to what GardenWalk did across the street, you would have to add another year to the schedule. Short term - not so good, but better in the long term, since you will have more spaces available.

    And of course, looking into the long term future, Disney has a major parking problem of they decide to build a third park. In that case, you would need to find parking for the Cast Members, both the current ones parking at Katella Lot, and for the additional CM's hired to work at the Third Park. Plus you lose your parking spaces currently used by guests on very busy days, and for the convention center (Buzz Lightyear).

    More than likely, the Third Park would have a parking structure built beside it for the guests, but Disney would have to relocate the CM parking area, more than likely moving it to the east side of Interstate 5, since there are some decent size lots available in the area. But then Disney would have to hire more shuttles for CM's as the length of time to get to the park would be longer.

    Lots of issues, and hopefully Disney is looking at some of the short term solutions to help prevent this from happening again.
    I think that about sums up everything.

  13. #103

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    Re: Fiasco to Park at the Parks - What can be done?

    Quote Originally Posted by Coheteboy View Post
    Hate China much?
    Love slave labor much?

  14. #104

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    Re: Fiasco to Park at the Parks - What can be done?

    Quote Originally Posted by perlster View Post
    Love slave labor much?
    Isn't it the best?

    Please don't reply unless you can add something worth while to the discussion.


    Wally, thanks for quoting Dark Beer's post... I completely missed it somehow so it's good to read what's going on.


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  15. #105

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    Re: Fiasco to Park at the Parks - What can be done?

    Quote Originally Posted by perlster View Post
    Love slave labor much?
    I do.

    Now if we could get some of that over here to build the Pumbaa structure pronto!

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