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  1. #16

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    Re: Are AA's Antiques?

    Poor Potato Head gets no respect...
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    : Stroll through downtown Duckburg, making sure to tour Scrooge's Money Bin, then cross the Audubon Bay Bridge to St. Canard. Visit Liquidator's Splash Pool, and don't forget a stop by Bushroot Gardens!

  2. #17

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    Re: Are AA's Antiques?

    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Bob View Post
    The "big evil corporation" has actually done some cool things since Walt's passing.
    The question is, what has it done since Eisner's arriving? What creative standards has it set? What fame has it earned? What entertainment concepts has it innovated that others have rushed to copy?

    What creative Disney visionary is at the top of the corporation, guiding Disneyland and the DLR into the future as the premiere theme park of the world? Bob Iger? Jay Rasulo? Ed Grier?

    (And it's not evil -- just big. )
    "With the acquisition of Marvel and now of Lucasfilm,
    Disney may have finally found the grail. You don't need
    imagination or art. All you need is a brand."

    - Neil Gabler


  3. #18

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    Re: Are AA's Antiques?

    The funny thing is that sometimes they've created amazing state of the art AAs (most of the AAs in Dinosaur, Sparrow, Buzz Lightyear in the queue, the yeti etc.) and other times short changed us. No consistency. One possible explanation is that certain attractions cost so much to make that there wasn't as much left for the AAs.

    Whatever their excuse, any new AA should be state of the art. They've had decades to improve the art of the AA, and they have more than enough money to keep perfecting it and make sure they don't become antiques.

  4. #19

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    Re: Are AA's Antiques?

    A bit OT of techskip's OP (with apologies, as the following has been debated in other threads): I wonder if state of the art AA = state of the art theme park showmanship.

    AA as a theme park entertainment medium had its roots in Walt's fascination with victorian clockwork-animated figures, animated miniatures, picture/sound synchronization, and his overall love of techno/art meldings in general.

    What is the visionary leap for today that is equivalent to the leap to AA in the 60's (Tiki Room thru HM)?

    What is the modern corporate equivalent of "Walt & his Imagineers" that has the ability, organizationally as well as creatively, to make it happen?

    And the most important question IMO: what corporation has the fire in its collective belly to do it?

    To me, Disney has amply demonstrated that it is none of the above. It never raises its creative visionairies to the level of Bob Iger or Dick Cook. It lets its creative teams go, rather than assembling and sustaining them. And it shows no desire to move beyond a philosophy of "It's cool, it's bringing in the bodies, it's making us money, and that's good enough." Hence underwater video screen rides, video shooting galley rides, and endless promotional gimmicks and marketing tie-ins.

    I agree with Uncle Bob that it's not hopeless. But I disagree that there's any hope of getting real theme park innovation, of the sort that made Disneyland famous, from the current management structure -- much less from the current managers themselves.
    "With the acquisition of Marvel and now of Lucasfilm,
    Disney may have finally found the grail. You don't need
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  5. #20

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    Re: Are AA's Antiques?

    Potato Head is an example of what AAs have come to. Also take a look at the lava-worm-thing in Journey to the Center of the Earth at DisneySea. These are both amazing AAs. I'm not sure why Disney doesn't use these more... however, we might see more new AA technology in the Cars characters in the Radiator Springs Racers attraction and the surrounding D-Ticket attractions. Same goes to TLM. We shall see if Disney decides to use this amazing technology much more effectively as it should be.



  6. #21

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    Re: Are AA's Antiques?

    AA's are part of what makes DL so great. It's a shame they've moved away from them in the newer attractions.

  7. #22

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    Re: Are AA's Antiques?

    Quote Originally Posted by vfire View Post
    AA's are part of what makes DL so great. It's a shame they've moved away from them in the newer attractions.
    I agree with the first sentence, and strongly disagree with the second. Yes, AAs are PART of what makes DL so great. But does that mean that every new attraction should be based on AAs? I strongly feel that the essence of a theme park is the variety of experiences it has to offer. It would be a terrible mistake if Disney failed to use new technology that allows them to offer different kinds of experiences (interactive rides, 3D rides, rides that employ motion simulators, etc.)

    Mr. Wiggins asks where the breakthrough innovations are coming from. Well, we have had improvements in AA technology over the years, and now we have technology that has made all new kinds of experiences possible. The real shame would be not using them to push the envelope. I love Pirates as much as the next guy, but if DL was nothing but slow moving dark rides full of animatronics, it would get boring.

  8. #23

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    Re: Are AA's Antiques?

    I don't think every new attraction should be filled with AA's but there hasn't been an old-fashioned AA driven attraction since Splash so it's kind of overdue. I don't count Monsters Inc since the "statues" hardly move, though it's not a bad ride, especially considering the limitations the imagineers had to work with.

  9. #24

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    Re: Are AA's Antiques?

    There is a unique "quality" to the human AA's that I think is oddly magical. Spooky.... disconcerting.... but magical.

    I hope they continue to add more as attractions open in the future.

  10. #25

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    Re: Are AA's Antiques?

    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Bob View Post
    Like with everything AAs just need to find the right advocate who has a huge hit with them and suddenly Disney will realize they're not antiques and be asking for more AA attractions again. People can still be amazed by AA's if they're top of the line but people can also tell when Disney does things at a level that's less than their best, and that's just disappointing.
    Well said. It really is easy to tell when something has been done half-heartedly. I hope they have a current champion. From all accounts, someone working on TLM loves AAs.

    Our revels now are ended. These our actors, As I foretold you, were all spirits and Are melted into air, into thin air: And, like the baseless fabric of this vision, The cloud-capp'd towers, the gorgeous palaces, The solemn temples, the great globe itself, Yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve And, like this insubstantial pageant faded, Leave not a rack behind. We are such stuff As dreams are made on, and our little life Is rounded with a sleep. mycroft16 on Twitter

  11. #26

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    Re: Are AA's Antiques?

    Quote Originally Posted by shirleyfilms View Post
    There is a unique "quality" to the human AA's that I think is oddly magical. Spooky.... disconcerting.... but magical.

    I hope they continue to add more as attractions open in the future.
    You might be referring to something known as the "uncanny valley" and not even knowing it.

    Quote Originally Posted by wikipedia
    Mori's hypothesis states that as a robot is made more humanlike in its appearance and motion, the emotional response from a human being to the robot will become increasingly positive and empathic, until a point is reached beyond which the response quickly becomes that of strong repulsion. However, as the appearance and motion continue to become less distinguishable from a human being, the emotional response becomes positive once more and approaches human-to-human empathy levels.[3]

    This area of repulsive response aroused by a robot with appearance and motion between a "barely-human" and "fully human" entity is called the uncanny valley. The name captures the idea that a robot which is "almost human" will seem overly "strange" to a human being and thus will fail to evoke the empathetic response required for productive human-robot interaction.[3]

    Of course it's highly polarized as to if the uncanny valley is real, there isn't a lot of science to it.

    As for my opinion I enjoy AA I hope the continue to develop the technology.

  12. #27

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    Re: Are AA's Antiques?

    Quote Originally Posted by disneyfann121 View Post
    ...now we have technology that has made all new kinds of experiences possible. The real shame would be not using them to push the envelope.
    Bingo. 60's era AA took sculpture, animation character design, hardware from the space race, the idea of cam control systems from sewing machines and other pre-digital industrial controls, and used them to create entertainment forms that people had literally never seen before.

    Today Disney sticks video screens underwater and essentially replays a movie on them, or trundles you past video screens where you play video arcade games. Cool? Sure, for lots of people.

    Innovative use of technology? No way.
    Last edited by Mr Wiggins; 01-21-2009 at 09:12 AM.
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  13. #28

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    Re: Are AA's Antiques?

    For some reason, Disney thinks each new AA it develops has to display some wildly advanced technolgical gizmo in order to be built.

    Mr Potatohead removes his ear. The Ariel AA in development is supposedly very advanced as well. It almost feels as if they do not want to green-light an AA unless it is going to do something different or unique.

    However this is not necessary. Take the auction scene in POTC. Aside from the auctioneer and maybe the drinking pirate on the bridge, the rest of the AA's display very little movement. And this isn't necessary because the story being told is very compelling that extreme movement, while icing on the cake, is not necessary.

    Create a compelling story first, then create AA's in order to tell the story. They only need to be advanced enough to convey whatever part of the story they are trying to deliver.

  14. #29

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    Re: Are AA's Antiques?

    There are so many well thought out statements in this thread, that my opinion is almost entirely expressed. I just hope that AA based attractions are coming back, especially in Little Mermaid. The static figures really bug me. Also, people have mentioned the Yeti and the Lava Worm and Mr. Potato Head as examples of the potential, but if you notice, these are the only AA's used in the entire attraction. It seems to me the "bean counters" are willing to fund advanced AA's, but in limited quantities.
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  15. #30

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    Re: Are AA's Antiques?

    Quote Originally Posted by Outlander View Post
    There are so many well thought out statements in this thread, that my opinion is almost entirely expressed. I just hope that AA based attractions are coming back, especially in Little Mermaid. The static figures really bug me. Also, people have mentioned the Yeti and the Lava Worm and Mr. Potato Head as examples of the potential, but if you notice, these are the only AA's used in the entire attraction. It seems to me the "bean counters" are willing to fund advanced AA's, but in limited quantities.
    Exactly, Its all limited use but still impressive... I wonder what type of attractions could be thought up if the right amount of funding was given to them. Obviously there is the attractions that rely on pimarily video technology [Finding Nemo, Toy Story Midway Mania], Then there is the attractions that rely too much on some innovative thrill gimmick [and I use the term gimmick as basing the experience around the thrill as Kevin Yee writes about] like Tower of Terror, California Screamin... Or there are attractions that are based with primarily AA's [such as Jungle Cruise, Its a Small World, Most of the Dark Rides in Fantasyland and Toontown]

    While all of the things listed are impressive, they are all 1/3 of what the ideal attraction should be. You cant have one without the other and if you keep in mind, some of our most beloved attractions like Pirates and Mansion utilize all 3 effects in their remastered versions and are very amazing. I personally think a good attraction takes a bit of those 3 elements to be awesome. Anyhow here is what I am talking about.

    Pirates...

    *Lots of AA's drive the story across

    *While the dips were only added to go under the berm, they utilized a new innovative thrill or ride technology at its time [in the fact it was going to be a flume boat ride rather than a walkthrough]

    *The new remastered version features the davy jones video effects that transition you to the portion with the AA's

    Mansion...

    *Lots of AA's in the ride drive the story and lots in the graveyard

    *The omnimover was new technology for its time, the stretching room was pretty innovative as a large sized elevator to get you under the berm

    *The new refurbishment brought on video effects for the Bride in the attic

    Think of the advancements of what a full blown attraction could be with the heavy use of AA's, some video effects, some innovative and new thrill or ride technology, and some IMAGINATION!!!

    The problem is that I dont think the Disney company is willing to spend it when they have other operating costs, other merchandise, and stock holders to impress... The real question should really be, Is there anyone at the top running the company that is willing to greenlight and take a gamble on delivering a well thought out show? So at the moment I cant really complain because we still get "good" attractions, they just usually wind up being 1/3 of what "Excellent" attractions they had the potential to be.

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