Page 2 of 9 FirstFirst 12345 ... LastLast
Results 16 to 30 of 131
  1. #16

    • Closed Account
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    5,897

    Re: "Disneyland will never be completed." - Why the resistance to change?

    Quote Originally Posted by ManaByte View Post
    About nine months before deciding to do this refurb, Disney had Guest Research CMs stopping people as they left the park and their survey specifically asked Character-related questions regarding the park. The survey results said that people wanted more characters in the parks and on the rides.
    Can you cite a source for this?

  2. #17

    • враг народа
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    13,985
    Blog Entries
    3

    Re: "Disneyland will never be completed." - Why the resistance to change?

    Quote Originally Posted by ManaByte View Post
    About nine months before deciding to do this refurb, Disney had Guest Research CMs stopping people as they left the park and their survey specifically asked Character-related questions regarding the park. The survey results said that people wanted more characters in the parks and on the rides.
    It is all about how a question is asked. "Do you want to see more characters in the parks?" is a vastly different question from "Do you want to see characters in 'it's a small world'?". Just as "Do you want more shopping and dining at Downtown Disney?" is not the same as "Do you want more shopping and dining to replace the Pleasure Island clubs?". Disney has perfected the game of creating surveys that yield pre-desired results.

  3. #18

    • Member
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Menomonie, Wisconsin, United States
    Posts
    811

    Re: "Disneyland will never be completed." - Why the resistance to change?

    Quote Originally Posted by mycroft16 View Post
    MARKETING, SYNERGY, TIE-IN. The trifecta of corporate buzzwords that should invalidate any creative decision being made should they appear anywhere in the project.
    But aren't these the same words that made Disneyland what it is? As far as I can see, it was the corporate tie-ins and movie marketing that made Disneyland as popular as it was. Sure there were attractions built that had originality, but not many. Think about every possible classic Disney attraction and I guarantee you can find a movie reference. Jungle Cruise had the African Queen, the Matterhorn has Third Man on the Mountain, heck, even the Submarine Voyage was first envisioned as a 20,000 Leagues Ride, it was a request of the sponsor that it be changed.

    Now as a designer and an avid amateur historian about Imagineering, I have a few thoughts on the most recent It's a Small World design. People are quick to blame the imagineers for changes like these, but look at the big picture people. There is always a struggle, a huge creative negotiation. This incarnation of IASW has given us Disney characters, but it also gave us new lighting effects, general maintenence and spit-shining, and new audio. How would these have been accomplished otherwise. How does a designer go to the powers that be and say, "hey, we want to spiffy up this ride, because it needs it and it would be a great legacy to it's message", without offering a return on that investment. What reason does a competent businessman have for approving such a request. Now, if that request includes a possible merchandise sales return, then it becomes more interesting. Creatively, I think the ride is more interesting for little one's who frankly aren't old enough to know or care about the message. Those old enough to understand still get it, it's not that hard, the song says it all. Overall, this only makes the ride more enjoyable for all. The Disney characters are international and universal, just like the sun, the moon, and a smile. I see no problem in any of the additions, and I can empathize and respect the imagineers in their decisions and struggles.
    In view, a humble vaudevillian veteran, cast vicariously as both victim and villain by the vicissitudes of fate.

    DoppelV

  4. #19

    • I'm not really here
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Too Far From Disneyland
    Posts
    11,080

    Re: "Disneyland will never be completed." - Why the resistance to change?

    Quote Originally Posted by ManaByte View Post
    This change came down from the top.
    This does not make it right. Even Walt, who is the top of the top, made mistakes and knew he did.

    About nine months before deciding to do this refurb, Disney had Guest Research CMs stopping people as they left the park and their survey specifically asked Character-related questions regarding the park. The survey results said that people wanted more characters in the parks and on the rides.
    See, that I didn't know about... but here is the thing... I'm all for having the characters be known and loved, but this does not mean you just plop them into any ride. They do not fit and do not belong on iasw which is a celebration of the children of the world. It is not a celebration of the children of the world and assorted Disney film characters.

    Does this mean that if iasw is a success we can expect to see the Disney characters in HM? Or in PotC? Or Jungle Cruise? Or Indy? Just because people want it doesn't make it right. Instead of Barbossa will it be Captain Hook attacking the fort from the Wicked Wench?

    If Disney wants the classic characters to be known and loved, then Disney has a million ways they can do it that don't involve bastardizing a classic attraction that has nothing to do with Disney characters. They can *gasp* release the movies to the theater for a limited time run. That would get everyone in our generation back into the theaters with our kids who would then be wanting that merchandise, etc. And you would reach a significantly wider audience by doing that than you ever will by putting them into iasw, achieving a much better result.

    Our revels now are ended. These our actors, As I foretold you, were all spirits and Are melted into air, into thin air: And, like the baseless fabric of this vision, The cloud-capp'd towers, the gorgeous palaces, The solemn temples, the great globe itself, Yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve And, like this insubstantial pageant faded, Leave not a rack behind. We are such stuff As dreams are made on, and our little life Is rounded with a sleep. mycroft16 on Twitter

  5. #20

    • When Will It Return?
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Valencia, CA
    Posts
    1,348

    Re: "Disneyland will never be completed." - Why the resistance to change?

    I love how someone completely resistant to an opinion differing from their own is wondering why people are resistant to something. Even though the ones allegedly resistant to any change really are not, it doesn't matter. I can't even use the word 'discussion' to describe this. It's not a discussion. This is a 100% one-way editorial piece.

    "Who among you is wise and understanding? Let him show by his good behavior his deeds in the gentleness of wisdom." -- James 3:13

  6. #21

    • =)
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    13,290

    Re: "Disneyland will never be completed." - Why the resistance to change?

    Quote Originally Posted by DoppelV View Post
    Think about every possible classic Disney attraction and I guarantee you can find a movie reference.
    Pirates of the Caribbean. The Haunted Mansion. Big Thunder Mountain Railroad. The Disneyland Railroad. The monorail. Autopia. Space Mountain. The Matterhorn*. The Jungle Cruise*. Mine Train thru Nature's Wonderland*. Shall I continue?

    But this thread is not about the validity of movie tie-ins. This thread is about the same age-old straw man that's been refuted beyond belief...the idea that being opposed to a given change makes one opposed to ALL change.


    * These were inspired by pre-existing franchises, but not based on them. There is nothing about the attractions that is/was specific to the franchises.


  7. #22

    • Vikings > Everything
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Long Beach
    Posts
    114

    Re: "Disneyland will never be completed." - Why the resistance to change?

    Disneyland Railroad has tie ins to Song of the South and Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade by default.
    Do you like pictures of Disneyland at night? Check out my thread of epic photos here.

    Updated 3/17

    Do you like pictures of DCA at night? Sure you do, check them out here.

    Updated 2/28

  8. #23

    • Why work when you can MC?
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Burbank
    Posts
    51

    Re: "Disneyland will never be completed." - Why the resistance to change?

    The problem I have is that I think causes and effects are being mixed up in justifying these changes. In the short term, I am sure attendance will spike (mostly APs) as people will come and see the controversial changes, which Disney would have probably gotten with any change. That will quickly fade. If there are any actual attendance shifts, then is due to the character additions or that fact that the ride looks better now than it did last year? In other words, how much boost can you attribute to the characters?

    The points I have seen made here by others in many threads are valid. Namely, couldn't you have spent the same money plussing the ride, without adding characters. I mean wouldn't Disney have gotten the same publicity stating that they were going to add the American scene which was based on designs from Mary Blair as adding Disney characters. There is a risk that Disney is taking. Disney is assuming that characters matter more than theme. When you consider the popularity of IASW, I argue it is a risk not worth taking. If you can get the same benefits, without offending anyone, then why risk offending anyone.

    The argument that is made is that Disney's success is based on the characters, which I think is true as a whole. However, what equity is really being added to those characters by the inclusion in an already popular ride? If anything, you are trading equity for characters at the expense of the equity built with IASW.

    Certainly, Disney currently has a franchise waterfall strategy. Content creation units create franchises that all of the other business units (including Parks and Resorts) use. I think this limits creativity. Why not have any creative entity try to be creative as it can? POTC the attraction lead to a successful movie and merchandising franchise. Why limit the potential creation of new ideas by telling a largely creative unit (WDI) that they have to pick from the franchises created by another unit. It seems like a waste of resources.

    More risk + a waste of resources = bad business.

  9. #24

    • Having an Unbirthday
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    30

    Re: "Disneyland will never be completed." - Why the resistance to change?

    Here's my thought on the changes.

    It's A Small World was a unique attraction, and had a character all it's own. It has been lampooned, beloved, and bemoaned for decades because of it's catchy tune and iconic visuals- both inside and outside. Mention IASW to anyone, and they can sing the chorus, and laugh about how the dolls are really lost kids chained to the floor. Love it or hate it, it was as well known as Disneyland itself. Again, it was original, it was classic, and it was totally relevant to the park and visitors the world over.

    The one and only reason Disney film characters were added was cross-promotion. They are totally irrelevant to the ride and anti-thetical to it's message of peace from the children of the world.
    I'm making a note here: HUGE SUCCESS.

  10. #25

    • Waiting 4 DCA Demolition
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Chickapin Hill
    Posts
    1,494

    Re: "Disneyland will never be completed." - Why the resistance to change?

    Alright, here is my 101, Walt once said that Disneyland will never be completed as long as there is imagination left in the world. Now a days, imagination is limited and the imagineers have brilliant minds but they can only go so far with the terrible budgets that they are on, examples being DCA, Winnie the Pooh, Tomorrowland 1998, etc. Yes, Disneyland will never be completed and change is always good but not when our imaginations are limited, that we can't come up with anything exciting and origianal anymore. We the fans will be mad when we are wronged, when the product they are building is only incorporated to tie in with with something in order to make an extra buck. It's all a planned out scheme somewhat. Walt never did that, he and his imagineers always worked from scratch with theyre ideas and didnt work with Walt's brand names. So see it this way, the only way the disney executives can do things right and not upset the true Disney fans is by doing things the way Walt once did. But you and i know that will never happen becuase these days, it's all corporate and everything lead's to money somehow and how they can profit off what they are working on next. I wish one day we can go back to the days where Walt said so moderately "I spared no expense".
    "Walt Disney World may have more than Disneyland, but Disneyland has quality, and quality triumphs over quantity" -DL_CRAZE
    __________________________________________________________

  11. #26

    • Rock Star Minion
    • Online

    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    13,250

    Re: "Disneyland will never be completed." - Why the resistance to change?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Wiggins View Post
    The protests happen when the change is for the worse. When rides are shuttered, unique merchandise is made generic, marketing is pushed in your face, showmanship drops, and Disneyland's decades-long quality standards are shoved aside in the name of making quick bucks.
    The Number 1 Answer.

    While giving the guest what he knows he wants is easiest, giving the guest what he DOESN'T know he wants is more difficult, but better for business.
    "Here You Leave the World of California Today and Enter the World of, um, er, California Today."

  12. #27

    • Rock Star Minion
    • Online

    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    13,250

    Re: "Disneyland will never be completed." - Why the resistance to change?

    Quote Originally Posted by DL_CRAZE View Post
    I wish one day we can go back to the days where Walt said so moderately "I spared no expense".
    Not said afterward, but still true: "Because no one can fire me."
    "Here You Leave the World of California Today and Enter the World of, um, er, California Today."

  13. #28

    • I'm not really here
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Too Far From Disneyland
    Posts
    11,080

    Re: "Disneyland will never be completed." - Why the resistance to change?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tach View Post
    It's A Small World was a unique attraction, and had a character all it's own. It has been lampooned, beloved, and bemoaned for decades because of it's catchy tune and iconic visuals- both inside and outside. Mention IASW to anyone, and they can sing the chorus, and laugh about how the dolls are really lost kids chained to the floor. Love it or hate it, it was as well known as Disneyland itself. Again, it was original, it was classic, and it was totally relevant to the park and visitors the world over.
    Very well stated Tach! The ride really was a character in and of itself, and just as well known, by itself, as the Disney name. It had no need of the other Disney characters. iasw IS a Disney character.

    Our revels now are ended. These our actors, As I foretold you, were all spirits and Are melted into air, into thin air: And, like the baseless fabric of this vision, The cloud-capp'd towers, the gorgeous palaces, The solemn temples, the great globe itself, Yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve And, like this insubstantial pageant faded, Leave not a rack behind. We are such stuff As dreams are made on, and our little life Is rounded with a sleep. mycroft16 on Twitter

  14. #29

    • I'm not really here
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Too Far From Disneyland
    Posts
    11,080

    Re: "Disneyland will never be completed." - Why the resistance to change?

    Quote Originally Posted by DoppelV View Post
    But aren't these the same words that made Disneyland what it is? As far as I can see, it was the corporate tie-ins and movie marketing that made Disneyland as popular as it was.
    I would disagree with this. I would say that what made Disney so popular was the fact that it was something completely new and unique. A theme park had never been done before. The whole experience was something that no one had ever been a part of before. The level of detail that went into creating the themed lands was so deep that you really felt you were there and were able to leave behind your day to day worries and cares. It was a bit of Fantasy made real and tangible and you were allowed to enter and become a child again.

    Sure, they used content from their film properties to populate the world, but they are not the reason people came to Disneyland. People didn't come for Snow White or Peter Pan... they came to experience something you couldn't get anywhere else.

    Our revels now are ended. These our actors, As I foretold you, were all spirits and Are melted into air, into thin air: And, like the baseless fabric of this vision, The cloud-capp'd towers, the gorgeous palaces, The solemn temples, the great globe itself, Yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve And, like this insubstantial pageant faded, Leave not a rack behind. We are such stuff As dreams are made on, and our little life Is rounded with a sleep. mycroft16 on Twitter

  15. #30

    • I see mouse people
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Too far from Disneyland
    Posts
    3,768
    Blog Entries
    3

    Re: "Disneyland will never be completed." - Why the resistance to change?

    I am not against change at DL by any means. I'd be more happy if the changes seemed 'right' and here's the problem as I see it:
    Most of the DL attractions have a unique, magical sort of feel. They seem to exist in a place of their own. Within Disneyland, of course, but yet in their own world. IASW was like that. Sure, it was sort of cheesy and hokey but it was still special. The problem with the changes is that they seem to remove the viewer from IASW's special place and jarringly thump them back into marketingland.
    I have the same argument with putting Jack Sparrow into POTC. I am a HUGE fan of the films but the film POTC and the DL attraction POTC just didn't meld well. Instead of boarding the boats and entering a unique world, the film references and characters just keep poking the guest in the eye.
    "Plussing" an attraction should be done solely for the purpose of enhancing it. Not to increase toy sales or 'remind' guests where they are. LED lights, fiber optics, enhanced sound, whatever fx the imagineers can dream up...those might plus a ride. Removing any part that belonged in order to make room for things that do not? I don't see that as a plus at all. The characters belong in the park, yes. But not everywhere. The Disney magic sells. But it doesn't have to be presented in the form of a shopping list inside every attraction. I do not ever want to see a Hannah Montana AA 'singing' in Splash Mountain somewhere.
    Six Flags, Universal, even Knott's...they all have some sort of character/merchandising gimmick. What none of them have is the magical atmosphere that Disneyland has. I worry that the atmosphere, the magic that I (and many many others) feel will disappear and the park will devolve into a 'destination' and no longer be an 'experience'
    Then again, I could be just insane. It's certainly possible. :-)

Page 2 of 9 FirstFirst 12345 ... LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. "Change" - a dirty word for Disneyland?
    By TheManator in forum Disneyland Resort
    Replies: 193
    Last Post: 06-12-2007, 05:50 AM
  2. "Disneyland will never be completed
    By Disneyfanatic in forum Disneyland Resort
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: 12-15-2005, 11:03 PM
  3. Affleck brings "Resistance" to Touchstone
    By ALIASd in forum MiceChat News Archive
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 08-15-2005, 08:36 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •