Page 3 of 9 FirstFirst 123456 ... LastLast
Results 31 to 45 of 131
  1. #31

    • Banned User
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    San Francisco, CA
    Posts
    1,948

    Re: "Disneyland will never be completed." - Why the resistance to change?

    Disneyland needs to stay current and appealing to today's youth. Davy Crocket, Swiss Family Robinson, etc. aren't household names anymore. Back in the day, there was merchandise, just like there is today. Back in the day, there were movie and television tie ins, just like there is today.

    Disneyland has always been a living breathing advertisement for the Disney company, I'm not sure why people would complain about something that's been happening for 50+ years.

  2. #32

    • Senior Minion
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    8,890

    Re: "Disneyland will never be completed." - Why the resistance to change?

    Quote Originally Posted by SnorkletsMom View Post
    I am not against change at DL by any means. I'd be more happy if the changes seemed 'right' and here's the problem as I see it:
    Most of the DL attractions have a unique, magical sort of feel. They seem to exist in a place of their own. Within Disneyland, of course, but yet in their own world. IASW was like that. Sure, it was sort of cheesy and hokey but it was still special. The problem with the changes is that they seem to remove the viewer from IASW's special place and jarringly thump them back into marketingland.

    I have the same argument with putting Jack Sparrow into POTC. I am a HUGE fan of the films but the film POTC and the DL attraction POTC just didn't meld well. Instead of boarding the boats and entering a unique world, the film references and characters just keep poking the guest in the eye.

    "Plussing" an attraction should be done solely for the purpose of enhancing it. Not to increase toy sales or 'remind' guests where they are. LED lights, fiber optics, enhanced sound, whatever fx the imagineers can dream up...those might plus a ride. Removing any part that belonged in order to make room for things that do not? I don't see that as a plus at all. The characters belong in the park, yes. But not everywhere. The Disney magic sells. But it doesn't have to be presented in the form of a shopping list inside every attraction. I do not ever want to see a Hannah Montana AA 'singing' in Splash Mountain somewhere.

    Six Flags, Universal, even Knott's...they all have some sort of character/merchandising gimmick. What none of them have is the magical atmosphere that Disneyland has. I worry that the atmosphere, the magic that I (and many many others) feel will disappear and the park will devolve into a 'destination' and no longer be an 'experience'
    Bingo. Best post I've read on this subject, bar none.



    Quote Originally Posted by brenden View Post
    Disneyland needs to stay current and appealing to today's youth.
    You're confusing Disneyland with Six Flags and Universal. See SnorkletsMom's post above re Hanna Montana.
    "With the acquisition of Marvel and now of Lucasfilm,
    Disney may have finally found the grail. You don't need
    imagination or art. All you need is a brand."

    - Neil Gabler


  3. #33

    • I'm not really here
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Too Far From Disneyland
    Posts
    11,215

    Re: "Disneyland will never be completed." - Why the resistance to change?

    Quote Originally Posted by brenden View Post
    Disneyland needs to stay current and appealing to today's youth. Davy Crocket, Swiss Family Robinson, etc. aren't household names anymore. Back in the day, there was merchandise, just like there is today. Back in the day, there were movie and television tie ins, just like there is today.

    Disneyland has always been a living breathing advertisement for the Disney company, I'm not sure why people would complain about something that's been happening for 50+ years.
    No, back in the day there were not movie tie ins like today. If there were, the Walt would have put Mickey Mouse into Pirates. He didn't. Snow White would have been added into Jungle Cruise, but she wasn't. The movie tie-ins have their OWN attractions or shows, they are not put in after the fact to attractions that have a 4 decade history and are beloved by countless millions the world over.

    Relevance is not a good arguement for changing an attraction. That would be like saying that since everyone emails these days we should just get rid of all print media since it is no longer relevant. It is not a good reason. Relevance never is... it is an "easy way out" type of excuse. When people don't have a good REASON (the word reason actually implies logic) to do something, they always invoke relevance.

    Our revels now are ended. These our actors, As I foretold you, were all spirits and Are melted into air, into thin air: And, like the baseless fabric of this vision, The cloud-capp'd towers, the gorgeous palaces, The solemn temples, the great globe itself, Yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve And, like this insubstantial pageant faded, Leave not a rack behind. We are such stuff As dreams are made on, and our little life Is rounded with a sleep. mycroft16 on Twitter

  4. #34

    • MiceAge Columnist
    • Dateline Disneylander
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Disneyland, U.S.A.
    Posts
    8,138

    Re: "Disneyland will never be completed." - Why the resistance to change?

    Quote Originally Posted by ManaByte View Post
    "Disneyland will never be completed. It will continue to grow as long as there is imagination left in the world." - Walt

    “Disneyland is like a piece of clay, if there’s something I don’t like, I’m not stuck with it. I can reshape and revamp.” - Walt

    “There are many ways that you can use those certain basic things and give them a new décor, a new treatment. I’ve been doing that with Disneyland. Some of my things I’ve redone as I’ve gone along. Reshaped them.” - Walt

    “The way I see it, Disneyland will never be finished. It’s something we can keep developing and adding to. A motion picture is different. Once it’s wrapped up and sent out for processing, we’re through with it. If there are things that could be improved, we can’t do anything about them anymore. I’ve always wanted to work on something alive, something that keeps growing. We’ve got that in Disneyland.” - Walt


    “Disneyland is not a museum.” - WDI

    “When a new ride comes and an old one drops out, there are bound to be twinges. But it has to happen, or (Disneyland) becomes a museum and an arthritic collection of things people were attached to in the '60s." - Tony Baxter in 1997

    "The park needs to constantly change.... When Walt was around, attractions came and went like you wouldn't believe. He put in the Viewliner train of the future in 1957 -- then tore it down in 1958 to make way for the monorail. " Bruce Gordon

    WHY do people resist any change at all?

    Maybe Disney should open a third gate in Anaheim, which is a 100% faithful reproduction of Disneyland on July 17th 1955 and charge people $300 to get in so those who don't want anything to change can be happy.

    Considering the so-called "resistance to change" issue has been addressed numerous times on these boards and all the posts you've been throwing around in Small World threads today (re-posted below), I am unconvinced that you actually have any interest in this matter besides getting a rise out of people.

    This discussion is a waste of time.

    Quote Originally Posted by ManaByte View Post
    Unfortunately the American scene is seriously offending the anti-American communists who live in this country and vomit at the sight of the flag.
    Quote Originally Posted by ManaByte View Post
    December 21st 2012. It's all IASW's fault!
    Quote Originally Posted by ManaByte View Post
    Exactly.

    I've used this before today, and I doubt it will be the last time:
    Quote Originally Posted by ManaByte View Post
    Yes lets fire the creative people and hire stuffy people who will close every ride opened since 1955 and go back to using the ticket system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ManaByte View Post
    Wait, so all the panic and attempted suicides was for nothing?
    Quote Originally Posted by ManaByte View Post

    Photos, news, and commentary every week from Walt Disney's Magic Kingdom!

    | | |

  5. #35

    • Banned User
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    San Francisco, CA
    Posts
    1,948

    Re: "Disneyland will never be completed." - Why the resistance to change?

    Quote Originally Posted by mycroft16 View Post
    No, back in the day there were not movie tie ins like today. If there were, the Walt would have put Mickey Mouse into Pirates. He didn't. Snow White would have been added into Jungle Cruise, but she wasn't. The movie tie-ins have their OWN attractions or shows, they are not put in after the fact to attractions that have a 4 decade history and are beloved by countless millions the world over.

    Relevance is not a good arguement for changing an attraction. That would be like saying that since everyone emails these days we should just get rid of all print media since it is no longer relevant. It is not a good reason. Relevance never is... it is an "easy way out" type of excuse. When people don't have a good REASON (the word reason actually implies logic) to do something, they always invoke relevance.
    First of all, is this thread solely about the update of IASW or the park in general? I thought ISAW had its own discussion thread...

    You pretty much reiterated what I said with "The movie tie-ins have their OWN attractions or shows." I think relevance is a great argument for changing attractions. Disney has to capture the eye and souls of a whole new generation - a generation that isn't satisfied with a boat ride through an animatronic jungle, a generation that is captured by Astro Blasters and Toy Story Mania. A generation that is used to going ANYWHERE and seeing some kind of advertisement - it's not uncommon for any other business. Disney is using what they have to draw in a new audience that perhaps was never interested in the ride with the most annoying song in the world.

  6. #36

    • MiceChat Moderator
    • Starcruiser.. crash crash
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Los Angeles & Orange County
    Posts
    21,358

    Re: "Disneyland will never be completed." - Why the resistance to change?

    I grew up in the 80s. Somehow I knew what Swiss Family Tree House, Davy Crockett, Tom Sawyer, Mark Twain, etc etc. I know what they all were. This theory of kids not knowing so we should tear it out is EXACTLY what is wrong with today's society. They don't know and we continue to allow them to not know.

    What it comes down to is not that we are resistant to change. What I'm really getting annoyed by is how Disney management takes Walt Disney's quotes and uses them as a crutch or a force field. "he said Disneyland will never change! we're just fulfilling his wishes!"

    There's ALWAYS going to be imagination in the world. Disneyland will ALWAYS change. Walt Disney's quote has a double meaning. It's not just directed at Disneyland itself. It's directed at the entire world. He's telling us everything that's right will be right and everything that's wrong will be wrong. This "imagination" that the Disney company currently has isn't right.

    Walt also said that we should never forget the past. Funny how they never use that quote anymore.


    Visit my mice chat toy shop!
    http://micechat.com/forums/merchandi...oy-shoppe.html

    Track Disney Animation Presence in the Theme Parks Worldwide!
    http://micechat.com/forums/disneylan...ired-them.html

  7. #37

    • Banned User
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    San Francisco, CA
    Posts
    1,948

    Re: "Disneyland will never be completed." - Why the resistance to change?

    Quote Originally Posted by Coheteboy View Post
    I grew up in the 80s. Somehow I knew what Swiss Family Tree House, Davy Crockett, Tom Sawyer, Mark Twain, etc etc. I know what they all were. This theory of kids not knowing so we should tear it out is EXACTLY what is wrong with today's society.

    I didn't necessarily say things needed to be torn out, but I can understand UPDATING attractions to keep them relevant. I think it can be beneficial to all, those who don't WANT an attraction ripped out and those who need to relate to it. Example? Updating POTC or the treehouse - these things still exist in essence but have been tweaked to stay relevant. The whole "Disneyland will never be completed" thing is true in more ways than completely removing things and plugging in attractions for the sake of making money. Which god forbid, a company tries to do. Disney is all about brands, recognizable characters and faces, they need to make money and if they have to change their theme parks, then so be it.

  8. #38

    • MiceChat Moderator
    • Starcruiser.. crash crash
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Los Angeles & Orange County
    Posts
    21,358

    Re: "Disneyland will never be completed." - Why the resistance to change?

    Quote Originally Posted by brenden View Post
    I didn't necessarily say things needed to be torn out, but I can understand UPDATING attractions to keep them relevant. I think it can be beneficial to all, those who don't WANT an attraction ripped out and those who need to relate to it. Example? Updating POTC or the treehouse - these things still exist in essence but have been tweaked to stay relevant. The whole "Disneyland will never be completed" thing is true in more ways than completely removing things and plugging in attractions for the sake of making money. Which god forbid, a company tries to do. Disney is all about brands, recognizable characters and faces, they need to make money and if they have to change their theme parks, then so be it.

    While I completely understand in a marketing business synergy sort of way, when taking a step back years after those changes.... if you're able to go "okay, you know what? It's better now because of those changes" then that's great.

    But I look back at the majority of these changes in the past ten or 13 years and no, it wasn't for the better. I still rather have Pirates the way it was. I still rather have Swiss Family Treehouse the way it was (it was a far superior attraction no matter how relevant you think it is), I rather have the Subs using the old storyline but with updated show effects. I'd rather have the Tomorrowland of the 1980s. And it's not for nostalgic reasons. They were all better in design, show, effect, story... the very reason we all go to Disneyland.

    The only great change lately was the return of the Sleeping Beauty Castle.


    Visit my mice chat toy shop!
    http://micechat.com/forums/merchandi...oy-shoppe.html

    Track Disney Animation Presence in the Theme Parks Worldwide!
    http://micechat.com/forums/disneylan...ired-them.html

  9. #39

    •   
    • Skeevy Ray Vaughan
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Fullerton
    Posts
    37,942

    Re: "Disneyland will never be completed." - Why the resistance to change?

    "As long as there are MiceChatters left in the world, this tired arguement will never be completed." - Walt Disney

  10. #40

    • Banned User
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    San Francisco, CA
    Posts
    1,948

    Re: "Disneyland will never be completed." - Why the resistance to change?

    Quote Originally Posted by Coheteboy View Post
    While I completely understand in a marketing business synergy sort of way, when taking a step back years after those changes.... if you're able to go "okay, you know what? It's better now because of those changes" then that's great.

    But I look back at the majority of these changes in the past ten or 13 years and no, it wasn't for the better. I still rather have Pirates the way it was. I still rather have Swiss Family Treehouse the way it was (it was a far superior attraction no matter how relevant you think it is), I rather have the Subs using the old storyline but with updated show effects. I'd rather have the Tomorrowland of the 1980s. And it's not for nostalgic reasons. They were all better in design, show, effect, story... the very reason we all go to Disneyland.

    The only great change lately was the return of the Sleeping Beauty Castle.
    A lot of things weren't changed for the better. I believe Tomorrowland's makeover was a total fiasco. But what can you do? I have opinions on what is better or not, but really, it doesn't matter - I guess I can just see the literal side of a business needing to make money in order to stay in business.

  11. #41

    • I'm not really here
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Too Far From Disneyland
    Posts
    11,215

    Re: "Disneyland will never be completed." - Why the resistance to change?

    Quote Originally Posted by brenden View Post
    First of all, is this thread solely about the update of IASW or the park in general? I thought ISAW had its own discussion thread...
    Started out as solely iasw, but by the very nature of the thread became about change in general.

    I think relevance is a great argument for changing attractions. Disney has to capture the eye and souls of a whole new generation - a generation that isn't satisfied with a boat ride through an animatronic jungle, a generation that is captured by Astro Blasters and Toy Story Mania.
    Ok, so how does adding the classic Disney characters make iasw more "relevant" (using your definition as stated in the above quote) for current generations? It is still a boat ride through a bunch of sad, 4 decade old animatronics. Adding the characters doesn't make this ride any more relevant, so the whole update because, by very definition, irrelevant. The kind of relevance you are talking about is technical relevance. That involves making the ride experience and the way in which you experience it fundamentally different from the passive float through. Adding character AA's has nothing to do with this sort of relevance. Neither does adding Jack Sparrow to a ride for that matter. By your own definition, Disney has failed to make iasw relevant.

    A generation that is used to going ANYWHERE and seeing some kind of advertisement - it's not uncommon for any other business.
    Just because it is done everywhere else does not make it right. Just because there is genocide and racial slaughter all over the world does not mean we should do it here. Just because Coney Island and Magic Mountain do it does not mean Disney should. Disney became the gold standard by NOT doing what everyone else is doing. By being different. By being better than your average expectations. This is why relevance is not a good idea at Disneyland. Relevance means you need to make it like everyone else. What is relevant is what is the norm, the average, the mean. And Disney is so far above this that thinking you need to be relevant is almost a sickening thought.

    Disney is using what they have to draw in a new audience that perhaps was never interested in the ride with the most annoying song in the world.
    That song has a power that few songs in the world ever have. It doesn't matter who you are or where in the world you go, like it or hate it, everyone has an opinion of that song. There are very few things in this world that have that kind of power and penetration. The song itself is one of incredible simplistic beauty whose melody is maleable enough to be altered to fit any mode or theme imagineable. The words are timeless and are even more applicable and important today than they were the day they were first penned. Think about what these few words really mean and you understand exactly what the ride is supposed to be about:

    it's a world of laughter, a world of tears
    its a world of hopes, its a world of fear
    there's so much that we share
    that its time we're aware
    it's a small world after all

    There is just one moon and one golden sun
    And a smile means friendship to everyone.
    Though the mountains divide
    And the oceans are wide
    It's a small small world
    How on Earth do the Disney characters fulfill this simple, elegant and beautiful goal that the children of the world do? It doesn't matter to a child what color skin they have, or where they are from. They don't need to speak the same language to be friends. A smile means friendship to everyone. This song is about all of us putting aside differences and learning from the children of this world how to live in peace. It is probably the single most hopeful entertainment, in every element of its construction, in the world.

    Quote Originally Posted by Coheteboy View Post
    I grew up in the 80s. Somehow I knew what Swiss Family Tree House, Davy Crockett, Tom Sawyer, Mark Twain, etc etc. I know what they all were. This theory of kids not knowing so we should tear it out is EXACTLY what is wrong with today's society. They don't know and we continue to allow them to not know.
    Exactly... Instead of allowing people to continue to wallow in the mire of ignorance, let's instead educate them. Pass on the knowledge and love of these classic stories and characters. It honestly isn't that hard. I am a child of the 80s as well, and I too know and love all these characters.

    Our revels now are ended. These our actors, As I foretold you, were all spirits and Are melted into air, into thin air: And, like the baseless fabric of this vision, The cloud-capp'd towers, the gorgeous palaces, The solemn temples, the great globe itself, Yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve And, like this insubstantial pageant faded, Leave not a rack behind. We are such stuff As dreams are made on, and our little life Is rounded with a sleep. mycroft16 on Twitter

  12. #42

    • Senior Minion
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Posts
    5,454

    Re: "Disneyland will never be completed." - Why the resistance to change?

    I don't understand this relevance arguement. How are Pirates from several hundred years ago any more or less relevant to people from the sixties or today? The attraction seems nearly identically as busy now as before the changes to me. How you can describe any popular ride as not being relevant makes no sense. On the other hand why are other obviously irrelevant attractions like HISTA and Innoventions left for so long if relevance is Disney's motive for changing attractions?
    The Mickey audience is not made up of people; it has no racial, national, political, religious or social differences or affiliations; the Mickey audience is made up of parts of people, of that deathless, precious, ageless, absolutely primitive remnant of something in every world-wracked human being which makes us play with children’s toys and laugh without self-consciousness at silly things, and sing in bathtubs, and dream and believe that our babies are uniquely beautiful. You know…the Mickey in us.
    -Walt Disney

  13. #43

    • Vasooki-land Owner
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Vasooki-land/Disneyland. Dont we all??
    Posts
    711

    Re: "Disneyland will never be completed." - Why the resistance to change?

    Quote Originally Posted by Datameister View Post
    In brief: Change is not an inherently good or bad concept. Some of us are opposed to changes that do not improve the park. Some of us aren't. And everyone lived happily ever after.

    Next!

    I. love. everything. about. this. post.

    /thread
    We are currently imagineeing a new attraction for you!

    Please enjoy all the other attractions in fabulicious Vasooki-land!

  14. #44

    • I'm not really here
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Too Far From Disneyland
    Posts
    11,215

    Re: "Disneyland will never be completed." - Why the resistance to change?

    Quote Originally Posted by Vasooki View Post
    /thread
    LOL that's awesome. Can you tell what my job is now?

    Our revels now are ended. These our actors, As I foretold you, were all spirits and Are melted into air, into thin air: And, like the baseless fabric of this vision, The cloud-capp'd towers, the gorgeous palaces, The solemn temples, the great globe itself, Yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve And, like this insubstantial pageant faded, Leave not a rack behind. We are such stuff As dreams are made on, and our little life Is rounded with a sleep. mycroft16 on Twitter

  15. #45

    • rainy day girl
    • Offline

    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    walking in the rain
    Posts
    8,438
    Blog Entries
    68

    Re: "Disneyland will never be completed." - Why the resistance to change?

    Quote Originally Posted by HMF View Post
    Theres a difference between "Good Change" and change for the sake of change.
    This totally reminds me of an evil character in a beloved children's book series who decreed that "Progress for the sake of progress shall be discouraged."

    Quote Originally Posted by Datameister View Post
    In brief: Change is not an inherently good or bad concept. Some of us are opposed to changes that do not improve the park. Some of us aren't. And everyone lived happily ever after.
    But one person's "improve the park" is another person's "ruin the park". One person may feel strongly in their heart that the change IS improving the park, while the next guy may feel exactly the opposite. SO who's to say, in the end, whether it's an improvement or not? That's a dicey argument at best, IMO.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Wiggins View Post
    The protests happen when the change is for the worse.
    AGain, who is the end all, be all authority on whether the change is for the worse, or for the better?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tach View Post
    The one and only reason Disney film characters were added was cross-promotion. They are totally irrelevant to the ride and anti-thetical to it's message of peace from the children of the world.
    I've tried over and over, but I can't comprehend this argument. Is the addition of Disney characters on IASW really antithetical to that message? Does Mickey Mouse or Donald Duck or Stitch or any other Disney character signify hate-mongering and unrest? Can't the additions also promote the world peace message?

    Quote Originally Posted by brenden View Post
    Disneyland needs to stay current and appealing to today's youth.
    I kind of agree. If the kids aren't interested, Mom and Dad will look elsewhere for their family entertainment. I see nothing wrong with appealing to the younger audience.

    Quote Originally Posted by aashee View Post
    "As long as there are MiceChatters left in the world, this tired arguement will never be completed." - Walt Disney
    Word.

    I know I am a frequent supporter of change in the parks. I am always excited to see the new additions and updates to beloved rides. Do I always like them? No, but I don't go into the experience looking to be dismayed or let down. As stated previously, Disneyland is not a museum. And regardless of the reason for the changes, they are happening all over. The world is ever changing and fluid. Why should Disneyland be any different?
    Looking for the truth about giraffes? http://www.menacinggiraffes.blogspot.com/

Page 3 of 9 FirstFirst 123456 ... LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. "Change" - a dirty word for Disneyland?
    By TheManator in forum Disneyland Resort
    Replies: 193
    Last Post: 06-12-2007, 05:50 AM
  2. "Disneyland will never be completed
    By Disneyfanatic in forum Disneyland Resort
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: 12-15-2005, 11:03 PM
  3. Affleck brings "Resistance" to Touchstone
    By ALIASd in forum MiceChat News Archive
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 08-15-2005, 08:36 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •