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  1. #76

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    Re: "Disneyland will never be completed." - Why the resistance to change?

    Quote Originally Posted by brenden View Post
    People understand the idea of a themed experience, definitely, there's no argument there.

    Of course films and cartoons aren't the sole reason why Disneyland is successful, but would you argue that they're a minimal part of it's success? Really?
    I already said that Disney films play an integral part in Disneyland -- but that they aren't the sole reason for the park's success. I never said anything about "minimal"

    Quote Originally Posted by brenden View Post
    I agreed that the Haunted Mansion is relevant on its own, but you completely ignored my point about having a holiday overlay based on a popular film. Tying attractions to films and cartoons and TV shows isn't uncommon in the parks, even for self-standing attractions. I'm sure if there was some kind of tie-in they could bring to Splash Mountain, they'd do it - but alas, it was already BUILT on the premise of a film, that, like you mentioned, pretty much faded into obscurity. If they could figure out a way to add some fresh zest to Splash Mountain, I wouldn't be surprised.
    Haunted Mansion Holiday is not a permanent replacement or change for the Haunted Mansion. The regular, and apparently, still-relevant, show still exist. But the same now can't be said for "it's a small world." These characters and the America scene are intended to be year-round, permanent additions that will now be integrated into the annual holiday overlay. So I ask again, if the Haunted Mansion is still relevant, then why isn't "it's a small world"?

    Quote Originally Posted by brenden View Post
    "Why try to fix something that isn't broken?" Because it's a business! Regardless of the warm fuzzy feelings that Disneyland brings to millions of people, it still needs to make money! I don't understand why this is so difficult to understand - by reinventing an attraction, it keeps existing audiences that are bored with the current coming back and attracts new audiences who could care less.
    Why fix something that isn't broken when there are plenty of other attractions that ARE broken and that NEED fixing? I.E.: Star Tours, Peoplemover track, Honey I Shrunk the Audience, Who Wants to Be A Millionaire building, Muppet*Vision 3D, Winnie the Pooh.

    All of those examples could be changed, overhauled, or replaced substantially enough to create a marketing campaign around, which would drive attendance. I'm willing to bet that "it's a small world" will get blurbs in vacation planning brochures, but I bet it won't be getting any billboards or commercials anytime soon, because a few characters isn't going to convince anybody to book a vacation.

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  2. #77

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    Re: "Disneyland will never be completed." - Why the resistance to change?

    Quote Originally Posted by MasterGracey View Post
    I'm willing to bet that "it's a small world" will get blurbs in vacation planning brochures, but I bet it won't be getting any billboards or commercials anytime soon, because a few characters isn't going to convince anybody to book a vacation.
    No, but it will sure give them an incentive to ride it.

  3. #78

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    Re: "Disneyland will never be completed." - Why the resistance to change?

    Quote Originally Posted by dizneyteen View Post
    No, but it will sure give them an incentive to ride it.
    Temporarily.

  4. #79

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    Re: "Disneyland will never be completed." - Why the resistance to change?

    Quote Originally Posted by HMF View Post
    Temporarily.
    Well lets see how long it lasts.

  5. #80

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    Re: "Disneyland will never be completed." - Why the resistance to change?

    Quote Originally Posted by dizneyteen View Post
    No, but it will sure give them an incentive to ride it.
    Why? So they can see Stitch or Ariel? People who didn't want to ride the ride before still have every reason not to ride it now. The song that people despise remains, and the child-like, glitter-laden sets are still in place. Just like Pirates of the Caribbean, the hype to see the new additions will die off. There will be no repeat value aside from what was already there. And in the process the theme of the show will suffer, and the message obscured.

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  6. #81

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    Re: "Disneyland will never be completed." - Why the resistance to change?

    Quote Originally Posted by brenden View Post
    Regardless of the warm fuzzy feelings that Disneyland brings to millions of people, it still needs to make money!
    What Disney has sold since the 1930's IS warm fuzzy feelings!

    It's having Disney marketing continually pop the warm-fuzzy bubble to poke us in the eye with their in-your-face "hey, look! here's another one of our characters!" that all the protest is about -- be it Stitch in Small World, Tarzan in the Treehouse, Nemo in the Submarines or Johnny Depp in Pirates.
    "With the acquisition of Marvel and now of Lucasfilm,
    Disney may have finally found the grail. You don't need
    imagination or art. All you need is a brand."

    - Neil Gabler


  7. #82

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    Re: "Disneyland will never be completed." - Why the resistance to change?

    Quote Originally Posted by MasterGracey View Post
    Why? So they can see Stitch or Ariel? People who didn't want to ride the ride before still have every reason not to ride it now. The song that people despise remains, and the child-like, glitter-laden sets are still in place. Just like Pirates of the Caribbean, the hype to see the new additions will die off. There will be no repeat value aside from what was already there. And in the process the theme of the show will suffer, and the message obscured.
    I doubt POTC is seeing crowds now that it did not see before the refurb. The enhancements caused a temporary attendance boost and then things went back to normal.

  8. #83

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    Re: "Disneyland will never be completed." - Why the resistance to change?

    Quote Originally Posted by MasterGracey View Post
    I already said that Disney films play an integral part in Disneyland -- but that they aren't the sole reason for the park's success. I never said anything about "minimal"


    Haunted Mansion Holiday is not a permanent replacement or change for the Haunted Mansion. The regular, and apparently, still-relevant, show still exist. But the same now can't be said for "it's a small world." These characters and the America scene are intended to be year-round, permanent additions that will now be integrated into the annual holiday overlay. So I ask again, if the Haunted Mansion is still relevant, then why isn't "it's a small world"?


    Why fix something that isn't broken when there are plenty of other attractions that ARE broken and that NEED fixing? I.E.: Star Tours, Peoplemover track, Honey I Shrunk the Audience, Who Wants to Be A Millionaire building, Muppet*Vision 3D, Winnie the Pooh.

    All of those examples could be changed, overhauled, or replaced substantially enough to create a marketing campaign around, which would drive attendance. I'm willing to bet that "it's a small world" will get blurbs in vacation planning brochures, but I bet it won't be getting any billboards or commercials anytime soon, because a few characters isn't going to convince anybody to book a vacation.
    "So I ask again, if the Haunted Mansion is still relevant, then why isn't "it's a small world"?" Because the Haunted Mansion has a crowd? It has a strong following and a pretty decent ridership. I love Disneyland as much as the next person, but riding IASW is a low priority on my totem pole - I don't feel the need to sit in a boat for 12 minutes listening to the same song the entire time. I'd rather ride Pirates before riding IASW, just like I'd probably hit HM before I considered IASW and I'm guessing a LOT of people feel the same way. IASW has traditionally been the butt of many theme park jokes for just that.

    Of course tons of things are broken, need to be improved, etc., but how much would redoing Star Tours cost? Or revamping the Peoplemover track to bring back the original attraction or fix the problem with the Rocket Rods? How much would crafting a new 3D movie to utilize all of the effects in the HISTA theater? Or removing the theater all together, for that matter? Adding Disney characters to an already existing attraction and adding a room seems much more cost effective to me and probably to TDA. And especially now, with money being tight, 32% drops in the company as a whole, 4% in theme parks, a cheaper, easier, less needed reinvention probably looks appealing.

    TDA is doing what it needs to do as a business, I doubt many bleeding hearts are on top, sad as that sounds.

  9. #84

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    Re: "Disneyland will never be completed." - Why the resistance to change?

    Quote Originally Posted by MasterGracey View Post
    Why? So they can see Stitch or Ariel? People who didn't want to ride the ride before still have every reason not to ride it now. The song that people despise remains, and the child-like, glitter-laden sets are still in place. Just like Pirates of the Caribbean, the hype to see the new additions will die off. There will be no repeat value aside from what was already there.
    Well its *new* so some people will at least ride it once just to say they have seen it. I remember as a kid everytime my sister and I went on it it always looked like something new was there even though there was never anything new. and now when people ride it once they will feel as thought they missed something and go back on it again. Pirates of the Caribbean had 4 animatronics (3 of which were of the same character) and a Davy Jones waterfall effect that were all pretty easy to spot. Now im not saying that the new characters on Small world are hard to find but since there are more of them on the ride people will assume there are more hidden.

    I just think this change breathes new life into the attraction just like the changes in POTC and the attic changes in HM.

  10. #85

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    Re: "Disneyland will never be completed." - Why the resistance to change?

    Quote Originally Posted by dizneyteen View Post

    I just think this change breathes new life into the attraction just like the changes in POTC and the attic changes in HM.
    The difference between the changes in the Haunted Mansion and the changes in POTC & IASW are that the HM changes emerged organicly from and remained true to the spirit of the original ride. POTC & IASW were both corporate marketing tie-ins which are out of place in the rides.

  11. #86

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    Re: "Disneyland will never be completed." - Why the resistance to change?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Wiggins View Post
    What Disney has sold since the 1930's IS warm fuzzy feelings!

    It's having Disney marketing continually pop the warm-fuzzy bubble to poke us in the eye with their in-your-face "hey, look! here's another one of our characters!" that all the protest is about -- be it Stitch in Small World, Tarzan in the Treehouse, Nemo in the Submarines or Johnny Depp in Pirates.
    Well, sadly, this isn't the 1930s anymore. This is a capitalist nation. The Disney Company has transformed from an animation studio to one of the world's largest conglomerates. And although there are core values Disneyland and the Disney company were based on, times change, management changes, direction changes, people change - Disneyland's primary goal is to make money, not to send you off into the world with a big grin. Sadly, the reality is that grin and Disneyland effect on people is a side effect from delivering a highly effective (and a highly expensive) product.

  12. #87

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    Re: "Disneyland will never be completed." - Why the resistance to change?

    Quote Originally Posted by HMF View Post
    The difference between the changes in the Haunted Mansion and the changes in POTC & IASW are that the HM changes emerged organicly from and remained true to the spirit of the original ride. POTC & IASW were both corporate marketing tie-ins which are out of place in the rides.
    And yet, they still tried to take HM to another level by releasing a film. Had that film been successful, I'm positive additions to HM would have been added to tie in with the movie.

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    Re: "Disneyland will never be completed." - Why the resistance to change?

    Quote Originally Posted by brenden View Post
    Well, sadly, this isn't the 1930s anymore. This is a capitalist nation. The Disney Company has transformed from an animation studio to one of the world's largest conglomerates. And although there are core values Disneyland and the Disney company were based on, times change, management changes, direction changes, people change - Disneyland's primary goal is to make money, not to send you off into the world with a big grin. Sadly, the reality is that grin and Disneyland effect on people is a side effect from delivering a highly effective (and a highly expensive) product.
    If Disney continues this trend and the memories dissappear and the park becomes a giant ad and the people lose the magic Disney feeling there will be no money for Disney to make.

  14. #89

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    Re: "Disneyland will never be completed." - Why the resistance to change?

    Quote Originally Posted by brenden View Post
    And yet, they still tried to take HM to another level by releasing a film. Had that film been successful, I'm positive additions to HM would have been added to tie in with the movie.
    Exactly. I could totally see Eddie Murphy replacing the old caretaker in the graveyard had the movie been successful.

  15. #90

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    Re: "Disneyland will never be completed." - Why the resistance to change?

    Quote Originally Posted by HMF View Post
    I doubt POTC is seeing crowds now that it did not see before the refurb. The enhancements caused a temporary attendance boost and then things went back to normal.
    Exactly my point.

    Quote Originally Posted by brenden View Post
    "So I ask again, if the Haunted Mansion is still relevant, then why isn't "it's a small world"?" Because the Haunted Mansion has a crowd? It has a strong following and a pretty decent ridership. I love Disneyland as much as the next person, but riding IASW is a low priority on my totem pole - I don't feel the need to sit in a boat for 12 minutes listening to the same song the entire time. I'd rather ride Pirates before riding IASW, just like I'd probably hit HM before I considered IASW and I'm guessing a LOT of people feel the same way. IASW has traditionally been the butt of many theme park jokes for just that.
    Disneyland itself has been the butt of many jokes over the years. Is Disneyland irrelevant? Disney recently said that 1 in 4 park guests make a point to go on the ride, and 6.7 million guests ride it annually -- and with the attraction being replicated at every Magic Kingdom, I hardly think that "it's a small world" was irrelevant or unpopular with guests.


    Quote Originally Posted by brenden View Post
    Well, sadly, this isn't the 1930s anymore. This is a capitalist nation. The Disney Company has transformed from an animation studio to one of the world's largest conglomerates. And although there are core values Disneyland and the Disney company were based on, times change, management changes, direction changes, people change - Disneyland's primary goal is to make money, not to send you off into the world with a big grin. Sadly, the reality is that grin and Disneyland effect on people is a side effect from delivering a highly effective (and a highly expensive) product.
    So because Disney has grown to be "on of the world's largest conglomerates" it's okay for the Company to forget how it go to where it is now?

    Sounds like more flawed logic to me.

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