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  1. #151

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    Re: No more astro Orbitor?

    Has anyone yet made the point that the Rocket Jets have about 1/2 the capacity of the AO, just with the amount or rockets, not to mention the elevator wait time. That's my theory on a reason it was moved.
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  2. #152

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    Re: No more astro Orbitor?

    I really don't see why this debate seems to present this as there being only two options, to keep the AO or return the RJ's. I think a third path is by far most likely and what should be done. I agree with Cohete in that the time to replace the RJ's should be done as part of the new PM project. But I don't think the new ride should be like the old one. TL needs to have new versions of the old concepts, not replacements. This should and I would think is almost certain to be a major part of any TL renovation plan.

    A new PM station should be built and a new "high and thrilling" spinner or carnival type attraction should take its rightful place above. Both these should be totally new ideas that take advantage of the beautifully designed original TL '66 layout, but also make it new, futuristic and exciting for the next 20 or 30 years. Additionally new elevated walkways should be created that connect this new platform to the SM patio and the second level of Starcade and possibly a new attraction in the old Innoventions building to create an entire connected second level.

    I agree with those that say simply returning an old attraction such as the RJ's alone would not be enough to generate much excitement and visits. However, a major renovation of most of TL is needed and would generate tons of interest and fix the most glaring problems in DL today. This is the only major project that DL really must do before opening a third gate, which is something WDI is well aware of, and will hopefully TDA as well.
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  3. #153

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    Re: No more astro Orbitor?

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric5675 View Post
    Has anyone yet made the point that the Rocket Jets have about 1/2 the capacity of the AO, just with the amount or rockets, not to mention the elevator wait time. That's my theory on a reason it was moved.

    I'm not worried about the capacity of the rocket jets because if they do update it, I'm sure they'd figure that out.

    And there was a wait area on the top platform after you went up the elevator. The lift gantry was all part of the show... similar to the Haunted Mansion's elevator going down, you still had to wait a bit when you got down there.


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  4. #154

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    Re: No more astro Orbitor?

    It's certainly a tough situation. Obviously, Disney never should have made the switch in the first place - if they felt the need for change, they should have either significantly refurbed the existing Rocket Jets or designed a new (thematically appropriate) version for the platform. But they didn't do that, and what's done is done. And the really unfortunate part is...MrLiver is right that it would be costly to make the change at this point, and the returns would probably not be as phenomenally high as the rockets would be. I'd very much like to see this happen eventually, of course, but I think the bigger priorities in Tomorrowland need to be the successor to the Rocket Rods, the overall look of the land, and perhaps a worthwhile replacement for Innoventions. The AO can be re-painted in the mean time - lipstick on a pig, certainly, but better than nothing - and eventually replaced.


  5. #155

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    Re: No more astro Orbitor?

    I personally didn't care for AO when I opened. I rode it once, and went BAh! It wasn't as exciting as when it was up as Rocket Jets before. And the height gives it more excitement! I always remember a line, waiting and waiting to get up there. Even as an adult with my kids. And they LOVED that ride, and didn't care for Dumbo. I love Dumbo for nostalgic sake, and won't ride unless I have a child with me.. ahha! I feel I'm too big for that ride, in size. I'm not huge, at all. I just rode it when my kids were REALLY small. They would want to ride the Rocket Jets when they got to be like 5 years old. My kids were daredevils. They were upset they weren't tall enough for the bigger rides for a long time!
    And I do know that it does lean to the outside on AO it feels weak. I felt safe on the RJ. But I do think that there is structural issues I'm sure for State code on that platform.
    I don't care for that umm what do you call it? Observatron? Whatever it is? It plays something from the Rocketeer movie? Not very exciting really. I hope that something can update Tomorrowland to something exciting! In this economy though.. wouldn't budget's be tight?
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  6. #156

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    Re: No more astro Orbitor?

    Well, it is one of the last tandem seaters.
    One of those rides that lets you know how a first date is going.
    I guess if the bobsleds get new cars, it may be the last of that style.

  7. #157

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    Re: No more astro Orbitor?

    Quote Originally Posted by Datameister View Post
    It's certainly a tough situation. Obviously, Disney never should have made the switch in the first place - if they felt the need for change, they should have either significantly refurbed the existing Rocket Jets or designed a new (thematically appropriate) version for the platform. But they didn't do that, and what's done is done. And the really unfortunate part is...MrLiver is right that it would be costly to make the change at this point, and the returns would probably not be as phenomenally high as the rockets would be. I'd very much like to see this happen eventually, of course, but I think the bigger priorities in Tomorrowland need to be the successor to the Rocket Rods, the overall look of the land, and perhaps a worthwhile replacement for Innoventions. The AO can be re-painted in the mean time - lipstick on a pig, certainly, but better than nothing - and eventually replaced.
    I basically agree, but as you say, two major needs of any TL rehab are a new RR/PM and the overall look of the land. I think this problem needs to be resolved in concert with those efforts. A new station structure will almost certainly be needed to incorporate modern seismic and ADA requirements if they only want it to serve as the station for the new RR or PM, so it makes sense at that time to also integrate a new attraction into the structure.

    I think to really fix the aesthetics and functional relationships in TL, the AO will need to go and the focus returned to the center of the land. I agree though, it might as well be left until its replacement is ready. But perhaps if it is removed it means that they're getting serious about the rumored TL renovation, so this might be really good news.
    The Mickey audience is not made up of people; it has no racial, national, political, religious or social differences or affiliations; the Mickey audience is made up of parts of people, of that deathless, precious, ageless, absolutely primitive remnant of something in every world-wracked human being which makes us play with children’s toys and laugh without self-consciousness at silly things, and sing in bathtubs, and dream and believe that our babies are uniquely beautiful. You know…the Mickey in us.
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  8. #158

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    Re: No more astro Orbitor?

    Quote Originally Posted by Datameister View Post
    It's certainly a tough situation. Obviously, Disney never should have made the switch in the first place - if they felt the need for change, they should have either significantly refurbed the existing Rocket Jets or designed a new (thematically appropriate) version for the platform. But they didn't do that, and what's done is done. And the really unfortunate part is...MrLiver is right that it would be costly to make the change at this point, and the returns would probably not be as phenomenally high as the rockets would be. I'd very much like to see this happen eventually, of course, but I think the bigger priorities in Tomorrowland need to be the successor to the Rocket Rods, the overall look of the land, and perhaps a worthwhile replacement for Innoventions. The AO can be re-painted in the mean time - lipstick on a pig, certainly, but better than nothing - and eventually replaced.

    It's just typical of Disney's mentality of the time (still continuing?), that of not spending the money that would rationally be expected for such a significant project. Providing a single attraction budget ($100 million) to cover an entire land was just penny wise, pound foolish.

    But, that was the mentality of the Pressler regime. Cut, close and reduce. So, now they are stuck with having to spend a lot more to correct the shortsightedness.

    The question is, will the current management just continue with the old strategies, or will they get their act together (at DL AND DCA) and actually provide a budget that will allow a quality update of the land?

  9. #159

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    Re: No more astro Orbitor?

    Quote Originally Posted by bfdf55 View Post
    It's just typical of Disney's mentality of the time (still continuing?), that of not spending the money that would rationally be expected for such a significant project. Providing a single attraction budget ($100 million) to cover an entire land was just penny wise, pound foolish.
    I'm not going to defend the amount of money spent on the new Tomorrowland as a whole, but I do want to say that at some point, the cost of beefing up the Rocket Jets just simply wouldn't be worth it. Like most people, when you're car gets too old to maintain, it just makes more economic sense to sell it off and get a new one.

    The Astro Orbitor as it is cost less than 10 million dollars. Assuming they wanted to build a bigger attraction on the platform, they would have had to tear out the original station, rebuilt it up to current codes and standards, and also with enough support to hold a bigger attraction. Lets say that the cost of the attraction, cost of the destruction, rebuilding of the platform and cost of the equipment required to lift the attraction into place cost somewhere in the neighborhood of 50 million dollars, would it still be worth it?

    Wouldn't you rather see a new attraction built somewhere else than see so much money spent on something that is mostly just the same?

  10. #160

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    Re: No more astro Orbitor?

    Quote Originally Posted by MrLiver
    Wouldn't you rather see a new attraction built somewhere else than see so much money spent on something that is mostly just the same?
    Did you ask that question about the Submarines back in 2005? Just wondering...

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  11. #161

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    Re: No more astro Orbitor?

    Quote Originally Posted by MrLiver View Post
    I'm not going to defend the amount of money spent on the new Tomorrowland as a whole, but I do want to say that at some point, the cost of beefing up the Rocket Jets just simply wouldn't be worth it. Like most people, when you're car gets too old to maintain, it just makes more economic sense to sell it off and get a new one.

    The Astro Orbitor as it is cost less than 10 million dollars. Assuming they wanted to build a bigger attraction on the platform, they would have had to tear out the original station, rebuilt it up to current codes and standards, and also with enough support to hold a bigger attraction. Lets say that the cost of the attraction, cost of the destruction, rebuilding of the platform and cost of the equipment required to lift the attraction into place cost somewhere in the neighborhood of 50 million dollars, would it still be worth it?

    Wouldn't you rather see a new attraction built somewhere else than see so much money spent on something that is mostly just the same?
    This is true but if they have to build a new PM station for a new version of the PM then it becomes a diffferent situation. If they could add a new attraction for 15 million more than the cost of making it back into a PM station then I would say it's certainly worth it. If the old station is to remain untouched and a new entrance to the PM simmilar to what they did for RR is built, then adding a new version of RJ might not make sense. It all depends on the overall plans for the land.
    The Mickey audience is not made up of people; it has no racial, national, political, religious or social differences or affiliations; the Mickey audience is made up of parts of people, of that deathless, precious, ageless, absolutely primitive remnant of something in every world-wracked human being which makes us play with children’s toys and laugh without self-consciousness at silly things, and sing in bathtubs, and dream and believe that our babies are uniquely beautiful. You know…the Mickey in us.
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  12. #162

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    Re: No more astro Orbitor?

    Quote Originally Posted by MrLiver View Post
    Wouldn't you rather see a new attraction built somewhere else than see so much money spent on something that is mostly just the same?

    Personally speaking, I'd rather see things that are broken get repaired or replaced before money was spent somewhere else. Tomorrowland has been broken since 1998 (in my opinion) and I think as cheap of a ride the Astro Orbiter / Rocket Jets may seem, it represents the spirit of the land, just the same as Fantasyland has its dumbo or mad tea cups.


    Removing the People Mover tracks would be a step in the wrong direction also as the land already lacks the ideal of having a future "on the move" and this is so important to have restored in the heart of Tomorrowland.



    It's true about what you said about old cars. Sometimes you just need to ditch them behind. But what do you do after that? You get a brand new car. A fancier one. A faster one. One that lasts longer if you took care of it.

    I think it would be a good use of money to put some life into Tomorrowland again. Right now I see two dead attractions right in the center of it all.


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  13. #163

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    Re: No more astro Orbitor?

    Quote Originally Posted by PeoplemoverMatt View Post
    Did you ask that question about the Submarines back in 2005? Just wondering...
    Yeah actually I did. I think it was a dumb idea to bring the old sub vehicles back. Finding Nemo would have worked much better as an omnimover attraction and the amount of money they spent to bring those subs back is atrocious.

    I would have rather seen another E ticket Indy type ride build than the subs returned.

  14. #164

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    Re: No more astro Orbitor?

    Quote Originally Posted by MrLiver View Post
    . Finding Nemo would have worked much better as an omnimover attraction .
    They have that' Its called the Seas with Nemo & Friends.

  15. #165

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    Re: No more astro Orbitor?

    Quote Originally Posted by MrLiver View Post
    Yeah actually I did. I think it was a dumb idea to bring the old sub vehicles back. Finding Nemo would have worked much better as an omnimover attraction and the amount of money they spent to bring those subs back is atrocious.

    I would have rather seen another E ticket Indy type ride build than the subs returned.


    Out of curiosity though, how much more money would a different E-ticket cost?

    I imagine it would cost a whole lot more to tear it all out and design something new to fit that space. It probably wouldn't even be done yet had they gone forward with it.


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