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  1. #16

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    Re: Pinocchios Daring Journey Lampwick Hologram.

    Quote Originally Posted by mycroft16 View Post
    I'm pretty sure after doing a lot more looking at ride through videos and whatever images I can find online that you are right. There is simply a hologram placed in the mirror frame and a light is shone on it. Just where this illuminating light is I'm not sure yet.

    The mouth is a really good guess! I'll bet that's where it is.


    It really kind of bothers me when people call something a hologram when it's not. I don't know much about them, but it's pretty easy to identify things that are definitely not holograms, such as the Pepper's Ghost effect, and projections onto smoke (rats in Indy, Davy Jones).

    The apple in Snow White that is not actually there: is this a hologram on not? Just some kind of reflection, right? It looks a little like those tricks you see at kid's museums where there is an illusion of cookies or something reflected in a bowl up into the space/surface above it, and but it's not actually there when you try to touch it. It's very 3-d looking, and in 360 degrees. Are the museum cookies a hologram, or is it called something else?
    "And all I ask is a tall ship and a star to steer her by" (John Masefield)



  2. #17

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    Re: Pinocchios Daring Journey Lampwick Hologram.

    My perception of this effect has always been the effect is very simple. Personally, I think the effect is accomplished using a two models and a pane of glass. I will describe my idea of the effect using terms of a 3-D movie. There is one Lampwick model in the front (real world) and one behind the pane of glass (movie world). The model in real world has a donkey face, and the one in the movie world has a human face. Both models turn at the same time, and it appears as if the front model has changed from a donkey to a human. --Just my perception...


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  3. #18

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    Re: Pinocchios Daring Journey Lampwick Hologram.

    Quote Originally Posted by twobluestripes View Post
    The apple in Snow White that is not actually there: is this a hologram on not? Just some kind of reflection, right? It looks a little like those tricks you see at kid's museums where there is an illusion of cookies or something reflected in a bowl up into the space/surface above it, and but it's not actually there when you try to touch it. It's very 3-d looking, and in 360 degrees. Are the museum cookies a hologram, or is it called something else?
    Not a hologram. Holograms can't float in space. A hologram only exists with in a surface of some sort, glass, plastic, etc. Holograms are "etched" (not-really but a good analogy to avoid technical mumbo-jumbo) into the surface so that when you look at the surface you see them.

    Effects like the toys where the coin or what not appears to float in the space above something is called a "real image." Mirrors reflect light in very specific ways. If the point in space where the reflected image appears to be is behind the surface of the mirror, it is a virtual image. This is what you get when you look into your bathroom mirror. The image is clearly behind the mirror. However, with combinations of curved mirrors it is possible to have the reflection appear in FRONT of the mirror and in real space. This is called a real image. This is what you get with those toys where the coin or whatnot is really down inside the thing, but it appears to be floating right on top of it.

    Disney actually has several patents on various uses of this technique for interactive displays (I'm assuming for use in queues or games).

    Now, this link here (http://www.eskimo.com/~billb/amateur/holo1.html) is not for making REAL holograms which require a laser, but it does give you an idea of how they work and allows you to sort of make your own. Just remember, holograms MUST be images in some sort of a surface. If there is no surface, then it is NOT a hologram. But just because there is a surface does not mean that it must be a hologram either.

    Our revels now are ended. These our actors, As I foretold you, were all spirits and Are melted into air, into thin air: And, like the baseless fabric of this vision, The cloud-capp'd towers, the gorgeous palaces, The solemn temples, the great globe itself, Yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve And, like this insubstantial pageant faded, Leave not a rack behind. We are such stuff As dreams are made on, and our little life Is rounded with a sleep. mycroft16 on Twitter

  4. #19

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    Re: Pinocchios Daring Journey Lampwick Hologram.

    I found a REALLY good video of the ride here: YouTube - Pinocchio's Daring Journey, Disneyland. January 2009

    Make sure you are viewing it in HD. Go to 1:20 into the ride and you will see the effect. The more I look at it and read the comments, the more I do believe that there IS a hologram in play here, and it's the image in the "mirror". Yes it is kinda green, and has a 3-D effect to it. So, what I said about NO holograms in Disneyland is false.

    BUT, the big question is....where is the light coming from? I don't believe it is coming from his mouth, nor is it possible that there is a projector in his mouth; that would not leave any room for the mechanics of his growing ears. In watching the video over and over, the light seems to stay fixed. As Lampwick turns with the "mirror" it goes out, and you can see the fading edge of the fixed light move across the "mirror". Also, you can just get a small glimps of the side of his face as he is turning and see that the side of his face is illuminated...sort of. SOOOO, I belive that the light source is a pin spot that is directly above and possibly to the left of Lampy.
    Last edited by disney-fan-reborn; 03-17-2009 at 12:55 PM.

  5. #20

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    Re: Pinocchios Daring Journey Lampwick Hologram.

    Quote Originally Posted by disney-fan-reborn View Post
    In watching the video over and over, the light seems to stay fixed. As Lampwick turns with the "mirror" it goes out, and you can see the fading edge of the fixed light move across the "mirror". Also, you can just get a small glimps of the side of his face as he is turning and see that the side of his face is illuminated...sort of. SOOOO, I belive that the light source is a pin spot that is directly above and possibly to the left of Lampy.
    You're right... the light does seem to stay fixed. The diffuse glow is probably reflection off the mirror itself. It's a very well done effect.

    Our revels now are ended. These our actors, As I foretold you, were all spirits and Are melted into air, into thin air: And, like the baseless fabric of this vision, The cloud-capp'd towers, the gorgeous palaces, The solemn temples, the great globe itself, Yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve And, like this insubstantial pageant faded, Leave not a rack behind. We are such stuff As dreams are made on, and our little life Is rounded with a sleep. mycroft16 on Twitter

  6. #21

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    Re: Pinocchios Daring Journey Lampwick Hologram.

    Quote Originally Posted by dland_lover View Post
    Calling Datameister! Datameister, you're needed in this thread!

    He has made the point in the past that this is the only instance of a hologram being used in the parks. I don't know all the technical mumbo-jumbo, but he can fill us in, I'm sure. And, BTW, the image you see is green.
    Seriously, if Data says its a hologram then it is! there is no pane of glass!

    DATA SAVE US!

  7. #22

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    Re: Pinocchios Daring Journey Lampwick Hologram.

    Quote Originally Posted by twobluestripes View Post
    The mouth is a really good guess! I'll bet that's where it is.


    It really kind of bothers me when people call something a hologram when it's not. I don't know much about them, but it's pretty easy to identify things that are definitely not holograms, such as the Pepper's Ghost effect, and projections onto smoke (rats in Indy, Davy Jones).

    The apple in Snow White that is not actually there: is this a hologram on not? Just some kind of reflection, right? It looks a little like those tricks you see at kid's museums where there is an illusion of cookies or something reflected in a bowl up into the space/surface above it, and but it's not actually there when you try to touch it. It's very 3-d looking, and in 360 degrees. Are the museum cookies a hologram, or is it called something else?
    lol why would it "bother" you? its a simple and quite understandable mistake.

  8. #23

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    Re: Pinocchios Daring Journey Lampwick Hologram.

    Quote Originally Posted by disney-fan-reborn View Post
    I found a REALLY good video of the ride here: YouTube - Pinocchio's Daring Journey, Disneyland. January 2009

    Make sure you are viewing it in HD. Go to 1:20 into the ride and you will see the effect. The more I look at it and read the comments, the more I do believe that there IS a hologram in play here, and it's the image in the "mirror". Yes it is kinda green, and has a 3-D effect to it. So, what I said about NO holograms in Disneyland is false.

    BUT, the big question is....where is the light coming from? I don't believe it is coming from his mouth, nor is it possible that there is a projector in his mouth; that would not leave any room for the mechanics of his growing ears. In watching the video over and over, the light seems to stay fixed. As Lampwick turns with the "mirror" it goes out, and you can see the fading edge of the fixed light move across the "mirror". Also, you can just get a small glimps of the side of his face as he is turning and see that the side of his face is illuminated...sort of. SOOOO, I belive that the light source is a pin spot that is directly above and possibly to the left of Lampy.
    a little of topic, on that video you posted, WHAT ON EARTH is that second donkey saying in the cage? lol

    The video REALLY does a great job of showing the effect, i appreciate you posting it

  9. #24

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    Re: Pinocchios Daring Journey Lampwick Hologram.

    Quote Originally Posted by KAN View Post
    My perception of this effect has always been the effect is very simple. Personally, I think the effect is accomplished using a two models and a pane of glass. I will describe my idea of the effect using terms of a 3-D movie. There is one Lampwick model in the front (real world) and one behind the pane of glass (movie world). The model in real world has a donkey face, and the one in the movie world has a human face. Both models turn at the same time, and it appears as if the front model has changed from a donkey to a human. --Just my perception...


    --KAN
    There is no pane of glass, i have seen people take flash pictures, trust me there isnt.

  10. #25

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    Re: Pinocchios Daring Journey Lampwick Hologram.

    Quote Originally Posted by mycroft16 View Post
    Holograms do not move. A hologram is a static image, just like a photograph, etched into a solid surface by interference between a laser beam that has been split and shifted out of phase with its other half. Things like the holograms on a Visa card or whatnot are a series of still images, just like animation. The holograms themselves do not move at all, but when viewed in rapid succession appear to.

    Dynamic holography is being researched for use in optical drives and data compression, but is not the same kind of holography that produces large-scale visible images.

    In Pinocchio: YouTube - PINOCCHIO RIDE AT DISNEYLAND

    At 1:33 in, we see the effect. There is a very clear light shinning on Lampwick's face from the opposite side as us, illuminating his face. You can see the light shinning on his ears. This light fades quickly as the character turns to face us. You can see the lighting change on various parts of the character as it turns. The image in the mirror appears to be projected from somewhere. I'm going to have to pay much more attention to this scene next time I'm there, possibly ride a few times in a row. It appears that a light and a narrowly focused projector are providing this effect. Another thing I notice is that Lampwick's mouth is open and pointing right at the mirror, yet as soon as he rotates, his mouth disappears behind the mirror. Could this be the source of the projection and light?
    At 1:33 you can also see Lampwicks human hair on the figure! wow i never noticed that!

  11. #26

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    Re: Pinocchios Daring Journey Lampwick Hologram.

    Oops, disregard what I said... I couldn't quite remember if the mirror was built into the wall, or if it was a hand held mirror... By reviewing the videos provided, I noticed the mirror is hand held, contrary to my earlier belief of the mirror being on the wall. I do suppose if the mirror was on the wall, the effect would have worked the way I described (and it would have worked well, as proven in Snow White's Scary Adventures). Oh well, in this case, I believe I am stumped...


    --KAN

  12. #27

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    Re: Pinocchios Daring Journey Lampwick Hologram.

    Quote Originally Posted by dougeebear View Post
    Its a pretty safe bet that it isn't a hologram but yet another application of the Pepper's Ghost illusion used around the park. Most famous is the Ballroom scene in the Haunted Mansion, but its also used for the Blue Fairy in Pinocchio's Daring Journey.

    Essentially, there is a pane of glass at a 45 degree angle between the viewer and the scene. If lighted on both sides, a transparent reflection can be seen in the glass. Turn off either light and the image appears solid. You've probably noticed the same thing at your home when catching your reflection in a window.

    The Pepper's Ghost illusion sounds pretty cost effective.
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  13. #28

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    Re: Pinocchios Daring Journey Lampwick Hologram.

    Quote Originally Posted by FeistyFigaro View Post
    There is no pane of glass, i have seen people take flash pictures, trust me there isnt.
    Perhaps the image is a full fledged hologram then. Interesting puzzlement. It'll be fun to ask around next time at the park.
    Last edited by Ride Warrior; 03-17-2009 at 06:08 PM.
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  14. #29

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    Re: Pinocchios Daring Journey Lampwick Hologram.

    Somewhere Data's ears are burning.
    I'll be interested to hear how he breaks it down...

    A lot of good theories out there!

  15. #30

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    Re: Pinocchios Daring Journey Lampwick Hologram.

    \It can't be a hologram. This is a Fantasyland Dark Ride. If they had the use of holograms, They'd probably rather use it in the Haunted Mansion, Pirates of the Caribbean, Space Mountain, Indiana Jones Adventure, Tower of Terror, etc.

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