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  1. #16

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    Re: New spotlights Main Street roof?

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve DeGaetano View Post
    I didn't even want to touch the railing, but since the door's been opened...

    Would it have been that difficult to create a period-correct wrought-iron railing?
    But I will definitely agree with you about that railing. A period correct railing would be a cinch to produce and install. Heck, I'd take a cardboard cut out painted black over what they have there now.

    Our revels now are ended. These our actors, As I foretold you, were all spirits and Are melted into air, into thin air: And, like the baseless fabric of this vision, The cloud-capp'd towers, the gorgeous palaces, The solemn temples, the great globe itself, Yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve And, like this insubstantial pageant faded, Leave not a rack behind. We are such stuff As dreams are made on, and our little life Is rounded with a sleep. mycroft16 on Twitter

  2. #17

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    Re: New spotlights Main Street roof?

    Quote Originally Posted by mycroft16 View Post
    The theme simply can not be 100% 100% of the time because if it were, it would cease to be a theme park and become reality. This would defeat the purpose of Disneyland. For this reason, when you "look behind" you can see things that are out of theme. Syncrolites... cameras, pinlights, etc. This is one of those cases. My light bulb thing was an example of how we can take things way to far sometimes.
    I know you and I agree for the most part. And maybe what I'm about to write is the basis for another "theme" thread entirely.

    But I believe you are missing the point. You are confusing details with theme.

    As we've noted before, details help. The exposed light bulb wiring on the ceiling of the photo shop is one example (I wonder how many people notice it?). But not everything needs to be a period-correct detail to conform to theme. Thus, we can have "modern" incandescent bulbs--which behave exactly as our forefathers' bulbs behaved--because the overall contribution to the theme of Main Street--pin lights outlining buildings--is period accurate.

    The same goes for the electric lights that are used to light "kerosene" lamps in Frontierland and elsewhere. Or diesel fired steam boilers. Or a castle made of cement-plaster instead of stones. Is the theme violated? I don't think so. The effect--what some might term the magic--is the important thing. This is the problem with the giant spotlight above. It breaks the themeing in a far greater way than modern pin lights or the fact that the brick Main Street buildings aren't made of brick at all.

    So, I guess "theming" is really about much more than accurate, period details--although these can help. It's much deeper and much broader. We're talking about the creation of an illusion. To me, knowing the filament in a modern light bulb may not be what was used in 1900 or that some inert gas fills the bulb doesn't detract from the idea that even so--theme has been kept intact using modern contrivances.

  3. #18

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    Re: New spotlights Main Street roof?

    Quote Originally Posted by mycroft16 View Post
    You are missing the point here Steve... the entire point of my post is that Disneyland is a stage. A stage for a show. A show that provides for a fantastical escape. It is fantasy, not reality. The theme simply can not be 100% 100% of the time because if it were, it would cease to be a theme park and become reality. This would defeat the purpose of Disneyland. For this reason, when you "look behind" you can see things that are out of theme. Syncrolites... cameras, pinlights, etc. This is one of those cases. My light bulb thing was an example of how we can take things way to far sometimes. Yes, filaments, and glass bulbs and bases are all things they have in common, but a modern light bulb is incredibly out of theme for a turn of the century Main Street. They distract from the theme, they pull you out of it because they are modern... do you see how that is a rather ridiculous arguement?

    The comment that the person made about "oh my that is so out of theme, is everyone going crazy" was completely tongue in cheek. They do not think it looks good there, but they realize that Disneyland is a stage, and from time to time, there will be maintenance, or things that don't go exactly according to plan. That light no more fits the theme than the bulbs on the facade of each and every one of those buildings. And that's my point. We make allowances so that the fantasy that is Disneyland can proceed. Some thematic allowances are simply intolerable. Others, like light bulbs, we rarely even think of as a thematic intrusion. Disneyland has had fireworks and parades since the very beginning, and as such, has always had these sorts of intrusions on Main Street, but they are part of what makes Disneyland what it is. Walt wasn't trying to make a real turn of the century main street... he was idealizing it and encapsulating the notion and romance of it so that anyone could recognize it for what it was and be taken, mentally, to that place. There are several security cameras disguised into the molding along the fronts of the Main Street buildings yet no one ever complains about how out of theme they are either. The flag is wrong for the time period... there are quite literally hundreds of thematic problems that we could find and nitpick. But we don't. We make allowances. Disney has done a great job preserving the theme by having all the lighting retractable so that it is not up during the day.

    My whole point was that for whatever reason, the light was elevated during the day time. This rarely happens as it is used for the nighttime fireworks. Are we really going to pick the heck out of it?
    I couldn't of said it better!

  4. #19

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    Re: New spotlights Main Street roof?

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve DeGaetano View Post
    I know you and I agree for the most part. And maybe what I'm about to write is the basis for another "theme" thread entirely.

    But I believe you are missing the point. You are confusing details with theme.
    The really funny thing here is that everything below is exactly the point I was making in my previous post.

    We do overlook these sorts of things all the time, me included (I really don't care about the Main Street light bulbs any more than anyone else, or the security cameras, or the balloons, etc. They are details that are used to create the overall effect and feel of the theme. That was pretty much the point I was making with all of my posts.

    There was a great point brought up about the railing on the roof. This is a permanent part of the building, that is always on display. As such, it should be very much in theme down to all the details. The light is a mechanical aspect, a behind the scenes part of a show that takes place within an area and as such is one of the things that I feel can be overlooked as it provides for an emotional effect during a show and is hidden the rest of the time. (Again, why it wasn't at the time of the photo, I don't know). I think that we are both in agreement here, we've just both been saying it really differently.

    As we've noted before, details help. The exposed light bulb wiring on the ceiling of the photo shop is one example (I wonder how many people notice it?).
    I noticed those for the first time while waiting in a seeming interminable line in there. I loved that detail!

    But not everything needs to be a period-correct detail to conform to theme. Thus, we can have "modern" incandescent bulbs--which behave exactly as our forefathers' bulbs behaved--because the overall contribution to the theme of Main Street--pin lights outlining buildings--is period accurate.
    This was exactly my point. I was trying to be incredibly ridiculously overboard to make my point that the offending light in question is used for a short period of time for a show and therefor can be one of these exceptions, especially as it lowers down and disappears when not in use.

    So, I guess "theming" is really about much more than accurate, period details--although these can help. It's much deeper and much broader. We're talking about the creation of an illusion. To me, knowing the filament in a modern light bulb may not be what was used in 1900 or that some inert gas fills the bulb doesn't detract from the idea that even so--theme has been kept intact using modern contrivances.
    I agree absolutely with this. Modern materials don't detract from it for me either. Theme is the illusion that is presented to us in each land. There are some kinds of thematic breaks which can be acceptable (i.e. a light for a show) and those which should not have happened ever (a cheap crowd control steel bar railing in plain view on a roof-line).

    So really, we haven't stopped agreeing here at all.

    Our revels now are ended. These our actors, As I foretold you, were all spirits and Are melted into air, into thin air: And, like the baseless fabric of this vision, The cloud-capp'd towers, the gorgeous palaces, The solemn temples, the great globe itself, Yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve And, like this insubstantial pageant faded, Leave not a rack behind. We are such stuff As dreams are made on, and our little life Is rounded with a sleep. mycroft16 on Twitter

  5. #20

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    Re: New spotlights Main Street roof?

    I love the Syncrolites, primarily because of their features.

    But as said above, they drop down out of sight when not in use, just as the ones for Fantasmic! do behind the mill.


  6. #21

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    Re: New spotlights Main Street roof?

    Quote Originally Posted by mycroft16 View Post
    You are missing the point here Steve... the entire point of my post is that Disneyland is a stage. A stage for a show. A show that provides for a fantastical escape. It is fantasy, not reality. The theme simply can not be 100% 100% of the time because if it were, it would cease to be a theme park and become reality. This would defeat the purpose of Disneyland. For this reason, when you "look behind" you can see things that are out of theme. Syncrolites... cameras, pinlights, etc. This is one of those cases. My light bulb thing was an example of how we can take things way to far sometimes. Yes, filaments, and glass bulbs and bases are all things they have in common, but a modern light bulb is incredibly out of theme for a turn of the century Main Street. They distract from the theme, they pull you out of it because they are modern... do you see how that is a rather ridiculous arguement?

    The comment that the person made about "oh my that is so out of theme, is everyone going crazy" was completely tongue in cheek. They do not think it looks good there, but they realize that Disneyland is a stage, and from time to time, there will be maintenance, or things that don't go exactly according to plan. That light no more fits the theme than the bulbs on the facade of each and every one of those buildings. And that's my point. We make allowances so that the fantasy that is Disneyland can proceed. Some thematic allowances are simply intolerable. Others, like light bulbs, we rarely even think of as a thematic intrusion. Disneyland has had fireworks and parades since the very beginning, and as such, has always had these sorts of intrusions on Main Street, but they are part of what makes Disneyland what it is. Walt wasn't trying to make a real turn of the century main street... he was idealizing it and encapsulating the notion and romance of it so that anyone could recognize it for what it was and be taken, mentally, to that place. There are several security cameras disguised into the molding along the fronts of the Main Street buildings yet no one ever complains about how out of theme they are either. The flag is wrong for the time period... there are quite literally hundreds of thematic problems that we could find and nitpick. But we don't. We make allowances. Disney has done a great job preserving the theme by having all the lighting retractable so that it is not up during the day.

    My whole point was that for whatever reason, the light was elevated during the day time. This rarely happens as it is used for the nighttime fireworks. Are we really going to pick the heck out of it?
    Bravo.

    I agree. There comes a time when you have to realize Disneyland is a theme park in the end. I think Disney - there are a few major exceptions *ahem*DCA*ahem* -- does a very good job at capturing the essence of theme and of places within its parks.


    CHECK OUT MY NEW MUSIC LOOP THAT I DESIGNED
    FOR AUTUMN TIME AT DISNEYLAND!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eL6fk6Ua54k

    With kindest regards,
    Maleficent Fan


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  7. #22

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    Re: New spotlights Main Street roof?

    Syncrolites rule.
    Amnesia used to be my favourite word, but I forgot it.

  8. #23

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    Re: New spotlights Main Street roof?

    So tinkerbell IS in RDTC right now? I was under the impression that they cut her out so they wouldn't have to train someone else for these few weeks.

  9. #24

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    Re: New spotlights Main Street roof?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jordiekins View Post
    So tinkerbell IS in RDTC right now? I was under the impression that they cut her out so they wouldn't have to train someone else for these few weeks.
    She's still flying high, with her wings carrying her over Sleeping Beauty's Castle... all you need is faith, trust, and a little bit of Pixie dust! Make a wish, and do as dreamers do... and all your wishes, will come true.

  10. #25

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    Re: New spotlights Main Street roof?

    Was hoping people were talking about the syncro's...

    backs away slowly...

  11. #26

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    Re: New spotlights Main Street roof?

    Wow, I seem to have missed a great deal in this thread while I was researching things.

    The following is just for fun and hopefully a diversion from what has been going on since this thread is already way off topic. Comparison of energies released by a steam locomotive, armed and unarmed bomber. My curiosity was piqued by Steve's response:

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve DeGaetano View Post
    [...]you might like to know--however--that the explosive power of a steam locomotive is nearer an atomic blast than the airplane.
    1 cubic ft of water heated to steam contains about 3,598,560 foot-pounds of energy (The mechanical engineering of steam ... - Google Book Search)

    A 1 megaton nuclear explosion releases about 4.18 x 10^15 joules of energy (4,180,000,000,000,000 joules) (http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview/id/511836.html)

    1 ft pound = 1.3558 joules (Conversion Calculators - Convert ft/lbs to Joules - Chapel Steel)

    Therefore 1 cubic foot of water heated to steam contains:
    3,598,560 ft/lbs * 1.3558 j/ft/lb = 4,878,927.648 joules of energy

    4,180,000,000,000,000 joules / 4,878,927.648 joules =
    1 megaton releases 856,745,641.9883 times more than 1 cubic foot of water.

    The Union Pacific Challenger locomotive (up3985) has a boiler capacity of 25,000 gallons (UP: Challenger No. 3985)

    25,000 gallons = 3342.013 ft^3 (US Gallons (Liquid) to Cubic Feet conversion calculator)

    3342.013 * 3598560 * 1.3558 = 16,305,376,199.616 joules

    4,180,000,000,000,000 / 16,305,376,199.616 = 256,357.164 times more energy in a 1 megaton explosion than in the Challenger locomotive at full capacity.

    The B2 Stealth Bomber carries 16 of either B61 or B83 nuclear bombs. The maximum yield of a B61 is 340 kilotons and the B83 goes up to 1.2. So assuming a B2 with a maximum payload of B83 warheads we get a 19.2 megaton explosion. This means the explosive energy released by the B2 is 4,922,057 times greater than that of the locomotive.

    Unarmed, the steam locomotive wins hands down, armed, the bomber wins beyond even reason.

    Our revels now are ended. These our actors, As I foretold you, were all spirits and Are melted into air, into thin air: And, like the baseless fabric of this vision, The cloud-capp'd towers, the gorgeous palaces, The solemn temples, the great globe itself, Yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve And, like this insubstantial pageant faded, Leave not a rack behind. We are such stuff As dreams are made on, and our little life Is rounded with a sleep. mycroft16 on Twitter

  12. #27

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    Re: New spotlights Main Street roof?

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve DeGaetano View Post
    I didn't even want to touch the railing, but since the door's been opened...

    Would it have been that difficult to create a period-correct wrought-iron railing?
    no, it wouldn't! they probably could've easily bought one for cheap that looked better than what's up there.
    "And all I ask is a tall ship and a star to steer her by" (John Masefield)



  13. #28

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    Re: New spotlights Main Street roof?

    Quote Originally Posted by mycroft16 View Post
    Wow, I seem to have missed a great deal in this thread while I was researching things.

    The following is just for fun and hopefully a diversion from what has been going on since this thread is already way off topic. Comparison of energies released by a steam locomotive, armed and unarmed bomber. My curiosity was piqued by Steve's response:



    1 cubic ft of water heated to steam contains about 3,598,560 foot-pounds of energy (The mechanical engineering of steam ... - Google Book Search)

    A 1 megaton nuclear explosion releases about 4.18 x 10^15 joules of energy (4,180,000,000,000,000 joules) (http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview/id/511836.html)

    1 ft pound = 1.3558 joules (Conversion Calculators - Convert ft/lbs to Joules - Chapel Steel)

    Therefore 1 cubic foot of water heated to steam contains:
    3,598,560 ft/lbs * 1.3558 j/ft/lb = 4,878,927.648 joules of energy

    4,180,000,000,000,000 joules / 4,878,927.648 joules =
    1 megaton releases 856,745,641.9883 times more than 1 cubic foot of water.

    The Union Pacific Challenger locomotive (up3985) has a boiler capacity of 25,000 gallons (UP: Challenger No. 3985)

    25,000 gallons = 3342.013 ft^3 (US Gallons (Liquid) to Cubic Feet conversion calculator)

    3342.013 * 3598560 * 1.3558 = 16,305,376,199.616 joules

    4,180,000,000,000,000 / 16,305,376,199.616 = 256,357.164 times more energy in a 1 megaton explosion than in the Challenger locomotive at full capacity.

    The B2 Stealth Bomber carries 16 of either B61 or B83 nuclear bombs. The maximum yield of a B61 is 340 kilotons and the B83 goes up to 1.2. So assuming a B2 with a maximum payload of B83 warheads we get a 19.2 megaton explosion. This means the explosive energy released by the B2 is 4,922,057 times greater than that of the locomotive.

    Unarmed, the steam locomotive wins hands down, armed, the bomber wins beyond even reason.
    I am amazed by your math wizardry!

  14. #29

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    Re: New spotlights Main Street roof?

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve DeGaetano View Post
    I am amazed by your math wizardry!
    Thanks. I love when claims like that are made because it makes me want to figure out just how much "whatever" is involved and I usually end up learning a ton of things I never even knew. And it allows me to say that all those math classes I took in college are actually paying off.

    Our revels now are ended. These our actors, As I foretold you, were all spirits and Are melted into air, into thin air: And, like the baseless fabric of this vision, The cloud-capp'd towers, the gorgeous palaces, The solemn temples, the great globe itself, Yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve And, like this insubstantial pageant faded, Leave not a rack behind. We are such stuff As dreams are made on, and our little life Is rounded with a sleep. mycroft16 on Twitter

  15. #30

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    Re: New spotlights Main Street roof?

    Thread Rerail!!!!!


    >>>Seriously, you guys, I feel everyone is being a little immature.<<<


    So, answering the OP's question, yes, those Syncrolites are mainly used for illuminating Tinkerbell's feat. Syncrolites are used throughout Disneyland, in shows such as Fantasmic!. Syncrolites are probably the biggest lighting fixtures in the industry, and they are also some of the brightest (correct me if I'm wrong). Now, why were those Syncrolites on in the daylight? The real reason beats me. My hypothesis: If you think about it, testing these lights in the day makes sense. What is more attention grabbing (which is a tester's worst nightmare), a fixture on the roof of a Main Street building in daylight or a bright beam of light in the night. Why not test it during 3rd shift? Possibly the fixture was to be used during a RDCT showing later that night (that is, if RDCT is even showing right now... [I just checked the Disneyland Resort website, and it appears RDCT is playing] ).


    --KAN

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