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  1. #16

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    Re: Is Main Street USA a "Land"?

    A town i never visit...kind of like pacoima or watts
    LOL!

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  2. #17

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    Re: Is Main Street USA a "Land"?

    Main Street is no more based on reality than New Orleans Square. Both are fictionalized, idealized versions of reality. I also don't feel that New Orleans Square has the theme of the Frontier the way one could possibly say Critter Country does. Critter Country can make that stretch and go into the realm of possibly the Northwest frontier with its more natural setting and lush vegetation whereas the big thunder area is populated with cactus and a more desert like landscape. However, New Orleans Square, with the mansion very well included into this section do not have a frontier or Western theme to them. The fictionalized version of the city and with the mansion, the plantation life, that area is a very different and distinct area of the park with little connection to Adventureland or Frontierland save for the fact that the mansion represents America's South during the turn of the century while Frontierland represents the West during a roughly similar time period. But, New Orleans the real city was hardly a representation of the Frontier and its promise by that time, it was well beyond that stage.

  3. #18

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    Re: Is Main Street USA a "Land"?

    Fantasyland has Bavarian architecture next to Italian and Italian next to English tudor.

    Adventureland has Polynesian huts next to Arabian minarets.

    Frontierland does not have to be just an Old West town. For that matter, the frontier does not have to just refer to westward expansion in the U.S. The frontier might also mean colonization of the New World, such as through Liberty Square in W.D.W. or the legend of Pocahontas or pirates of the Caribbean. Even so, New Orleans and the Mississippi River are greatly responsible for a large part of the closing of the American frontier.

  4. #19

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    Re: Is Main Street USA a "Land"?

    The architectual style, Bavarian next to Englush tudor, or Plynesian huts next to Arabian minarets works in the context of each land. The different styles work together to create the entire land of Fantasy. Despite the factual historical background of the Frontier, or New Orleans, those two areas of the park are very different from each other, as much so as Fantasyland is to Tomorrowland. Calling the entire West side of the park Frontierland just doesn't work, I can see how Critter Country could possibly be integrated into that realm, but New Orleans Square is so different in its theme and feeling that it just doesn't work.

    A frontier is a yet to be discovered or settled area and I can buy that in the Old West theme in Frontierland, and the barn area in the back of BTMRR, but New Orleans Square is a section of a well founded city and not a frontier.

  5. #20

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    Re: Is Main Street USA a "Land"?

    Yes. It is a land. It's themed to turn of the century Mid-west America. Bank, City Hall, Fire House, Town Square, Central Plaza ("Hub" as it is called) Plaza Pavillion/Inn. They all create a wonderful land of a day gone by.
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  6. #21

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    Re: Is Main Street USA a "Land"?

    What's in a name? A rose is a rose.

    But seriously...yeah, I'd consider Main Street, New Orleans Square, Critter Country, and Toontown to be "lands." They are thematically distinct areas, and I think that's what really defines what is a land in Disneyland.

    PragmaticIdealist brought up the fact that Adventureland and Fantasyland combine ideas from different countries, and yet are considered unified lands. I think that this is fundamentally different from the NOS/Frontierland conflict simply because of guest perceptions. Your average guest will easily distinguish between the wooden saloons of Frontierland and the wrought-iron verandas of New Orleans Square; they don't seem to be part of the same vision. But your average guest will be much less likely to distinguish, say, between a Bavarian castle and the adjacent English tudor architecture. Yes, there is a difference. But Walt recognized that guest perceptions are more important than nitpicking about accuracy.

    As far as the Disney Company is concerned, Disneyland currently has eight lands. So why not just accept their definition, since it basically makes sense, and the distinction isn't that important, anyway.


  7. #22

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    Re: Is Main Street USA a "Land"?

    I do think Main Street is a psuedo-land. The problem I have with it is there is little to do there that doesn't require purchasing something. Shops, candy stores, food. Yes, you have the short film, you also have those little cars, but I wouldn't call either a ride and barely meet the idea of an "attraction."

    What I would love to see would be a dark ride added to Main Street. I know Lincoln has been in the talk to never return. I think the opera house, a little back stage area, and maybe the relocation of the magic store, mad hatter, and a few shops would allow room for a fun MS dark ride. An exciting history of America maybe. From Native Americans and Pilgrims to Lewis and Clarke all the way to either the turn of the century or the "age of dreams" (Martin Luther King, Women's rights, modern technology, hope in general).

    And as for New Orleans being a land. Yes it is. It is not Fronteirland Station, it is the New Orleans Square Station. The only way I would buy this as not being a land is if Pirates changed it's facade to be part of Adventureland and if they made the Haunted Mansion a bit more rustic looking, a la the Phantom Manor. This would also mean that the French Quarter section should be rethemed to a frontier town like Gold Rush era San Fransisco.

    But the point is moot. These changes would add nothing to the park and so in the end, New Orleans Square is a land.

    As for ToonTown. It mirrors Main Street. Kinda a land, but no real rides. I would remove Chip and Dales house, Gadget-Go-Coaster, and Donald's boat. I would then move Mickey and Minnie's house foward, making the resedential side of toontown equal in depth to the downtown portion. Then I would use Mickey and Minnie's house as a que for a darkride in all the empty space now created.

    Anyway, I've blabbered on too long. Adios

  8. #23

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    Re: Is Main Street USA a "Land"?

    yes, according to WDI, Mainstreet IS a land. In fact, it's one of the 5 original lands of disneyland -- Tomorrowland, Fantasyland, Adventureland, Frontierland, and Mainstreet USA!
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  9. #24

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    Re: Is Main Street USA a "Land"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Datameister
    But Walt recognized that guest perceptions are more important than nitpicking about accuracy.
    Yes exactly, there is the famous quote by Walt, when the President or Prime Minister or whatever the leader from Switzerland visited Disneyland and commented to Walt this Matterhorn is full of holes and Walt replied "Well it is a Swiss Mountain!"
    Joey AKA "dlfreak"
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    If I become a bum people are going to say "Don't give him money, he's just gonna use it on Disneyland."
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    With all this talk of "off the shelf" and "on the back-burner" it seems the only thing that DCA is really missing is the kitchen sink!

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  10. #25

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    Re: Is Main Street USA a "Land"?

    The spirit of the original post was asking about the linguistic oddity of some lands being called "lands" in their names, and others not. To understand this, you have to go back to 1954.

    Walt and gang had on the boards the World of Tomorrow, Fantasyland, Frontierland, and True-Life Adventureland. Herbie Ryman pointed out to Walt that he could achieve some "symmetry" to the names if they all became "lands": Tomorrowland, Adventureland, etc.

    Note that in the above exchange between Ryman and Walt, no one is talking about Main Street. My surmise is that Walt himself considered Main Street an opening act to Disneyland. It was the appetizer to a four-course meal... but not one of the courses itself. Didn't the TV shows from the 1950s feature all the OTHER lands but not Main Street? (now I'm doubting myself)

    Mickey's Toontown, New Orleans Square, and Bear Country / Critter Country were added after that original 1955 configuration. Walt was around for the abandoning of the concept of naming each new land "land," so he must have approved. Perhaps he sensed the lameness of "Orleansland."
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  11. #26

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    Re: Is Main Street USA a "Land"?

    A theme is just that. It is an idea that unifies things that are sometimes completely different.

    For example, the Jungle Cruise travels the Rivers of the World. At one turn, the Yangtze becomes the Congo. At another, the Nile becomes the Amazon.

    When Walt Disney described New Orleans Square as the gay Paris of the American frontier, there is only one way to interpret his words. New Orleans Square was, is, and always has been part of Frontierland. Frontierland's Rivers of America surround Tom Sawyer's Island. The Mississippi River was a major feature in "The Adventures of Tom Sawyer and Huckleberry Finn". The Mississippi River reaches the Gulf of Mexico at New Orleans. There are no visual barriers between New Orleans Square, Critter Country, and the rest of Frontierland. Even Splash Mountain, inspired by "Song of the South", creates a totally fluid transition between the port city and the backwoods and bayous of Critter Country. At the time of New Orleans' founding in the 18th Century, the New World was a frontier in its own right. The trade between the Americas and the rest of the world built New Orleans and created the circumstances for the development of this French colony. Much of the uniqueness of New Orleans is in the fact that the city was able to develop such a vibrant culture throughout the 1700's and 1800's when North America was still mostly untouched by Europeans.

    Beyond the fact that guests must pass through Main Street, Disneyland, U.S.A. to reach Central Plaza and the four cardinal realms of Disneyland, Main Street, U.S.A. differs from the realms in one other important respect. A storybook castle lies at one end of the street. The remembered reality of the autobiographical and archetypal Main Street, U.S.A. gives way to the imaginary in the moment one sees this surreal sight and begins walking towards the castle.

    The situation of the castle at the end of Main Street, U.S.A. creates one giant metaphor that all guests to Disneyland experience before they venture to the Moon of Endor, the Temple of the Forbidden Eye, or Neverland.

    Essentially, if an area is not entered by way of Central Plaza and the name of said area does not include the word, "land", then said area is not a realm of Disneyland and should not be considered equivalent to Adventureland; Frontierland; Fantasyland; or, Tomorrowland.
    Last edited by PragmaticIdealist; 09-24-2005 at 03:44 AM.

  12. #27

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    Re: Is Main Street USA a "Land"?

    Everyone's made some good points about their opinions. But when you come right down to it--what's in a name? As far as the Disney Company is concerned, these are all separate lands. Some of us feel differently. No one's debating that there were four original actual lands plus Main Street, which is sort of a land. There have been three more areas added that have official names; two have signs indicating those names, and one does not. However, that one that has no sign was considered a land by Walt himself. The other two were added after his death and may or may not be considered lands.

    We could quibble about this, but there's really nothing more to it than semantics. We all agree on the facts, I think. So why debate the definition of a Disneyland "land"?


  13. #28

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    Re: Is Main Street USA a "Land"?

    I agree with Datameister. Disneyland has 8 seperate sections. They are all themed differently and represent different realms of imagination.

    Main Street USA
    Adventureland
    New Orleans Square
    Critter Country
    Frontierland
    Fantasyland
    Toontown
    Tomorrowland

    So, no Main Street is not a "land" by name, but like the other areas of the park it is just as important, if not one of the most important parts of Disneyland.

  14. #29

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    Re: Is Main Street USA a "Land"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Datameister
    Everyone's made some good points about their opinions. But when you come right down to it--what's in a name? As far as the Disney Company is concerned, these are all separate lands. Some of us feel differently. No one's debating that there were four original actual lands plus Main Street, which is sort of a land. There have been three more areas added that have official names; two have signs indicating those names, and one does not. However, that one that has no sign was considered a land by Walt himself. The other two were added after his death and may or may not be considered lands.

    We could quibble about this, but there's really nothing more to it than semantics. We all agree on the facts, I think. So why debate the definition of a Disneyland "land"?
    The artistic integrity of Disneyland is compromised when subsequent generations of people in The Walt Disney Company fail to understand the original design intent of Disneyland's creators. Disneyland is a living and evolving work of art whose preservation depends on its culture being transmitted from one generation to the next intact.

  15. #30

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    Re: Is Main Street USA a "Land"?

    Maybe
    I need to get a life...

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