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Would have ended up looking more like a multi-port sea type destination, say like, oh, i don't know . . .
TOKOYO DISNEY SEA?!?!?!?!
and we got Paradise Pier-ed - which just is a synonym for being "presslerised", "short changed", "ripped off", "flamboozeled", and "flim flammed".
Nope! =) My best argument is this:Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Bob
The cost-cutting part points out their motives, but it's the backwards vs. forwards thing that's the heart of the issue.Quote:
Originally Posted by me
Once you learn how to paint in a gorgeous style that the world has never had the pleasure of experiencing elsewhere, you don't go back to drawing bug-eyed stick figures - even if they're really well-proportioned stick figures with excellent line quality and no smudges or sloppy erasures. Well...you can. But you don't sell the stick figures at the same price as the well-loved paintings.
Unless you're into modern art. In which case there is no hope for you. ;)
If there are any modern art fans reading this, I really am kidding...slightly... :evil:
But the Old Mill is a pretty modest Ferris Wheel. It isn't the same kind of ferris wheel they would have at a seaside pier.Quote:
Originally Posted by Coheteboy
The Sun Wheel is pretty massive too. It's probably the biggest Ferris wheel on the west coast. It's modeled after the Wonder Wheel on Coney Island, which is a pretty historic Ferris Wheels as far as ferris wheels go.
So what's wrong with building something that has a historical or cultural significance? Especially if that something is also fun and entertaining at the same time. Not everything that Disney does has to be, or even should be, based entirely in fantasyland. I seem to recall that argument being used several times in defense of Frontierland.
Which makes it perfect for the California theme! Oh, wait...Coney Island was a New York thing. Whoops.Quote:
Originally Posted by MrLiver
Quote:
Originally Posted by Datameister
Yea, I think we all agree that the CA theme isn't really hashed out too well.
The problem with Paradise Pier is the same as that from which Dinoland, U.S.A. suffers. Disney thought guests were stupid enough to accept cheap carnival rides as long as it presented them in the vernacular of an oceanfront amusement zone or a roadside amusement park. Now, in the case of D.C.A., that idea could potentially have worked because the Pacific Coast is such a significant part of the culture and nature of California and, conceivably, D.C.A. could have celebrated the active and carefree lifestyle of Californians merely in the mode of an oceanfront amusement zone. But, Disney conceived and executed Paradise Pier poorly in most ways. It rarely attempted to be more than what it was: a cynical way to erect a second gate on the cheap.
Plastering images of Disney characters all over the place is not going to help the situation because the essential idea of Paradise Pier is being undermined by many of these efforts.
Well a Californian Boardwalk would have the best ferris wheel they could get right. What's wrong with having the best?Quote:
Originally Posted by Datameister
Stupid enough? People DO want these type of rides.Quote:
Originally Posted by PragmaticIdealist
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrLiver
yah.. what's wrong with having the best?
We got Paradise Pier and DCA instead.
Can you back that up?Quote:
Originally Posted by MrLiver
They don't want to pay a premium for the kind of experience they can find at a county fair or a generic amusement park. But, keep deluding yourself, Mr. Liver. The public has spoken, and, as certain Disney executives continue resisting reality, the more they will find themselves on the wrong side of history.Quote:
Originally Posted by MrLiver
So I guess you think that anyone who likes the Teacups and Dumbo are just stupid right?Quote:
Originally Posted by PragmaticIdealist
I could swear I just read a trip report saying that the two who visited rode the teacups 15 times!!! People do like the 'off the shelf' type rides but the execution and surrounding details that add to the experience are very important. That's where the premium price comes in. That's what Paradise Pier in it's original form was lacking.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrLiver
To be perfectly fair, Dumbo and Teacups are perfect examples of a Disney animated property matching an existing ride. Dumbo is a flying elephant. Mad Tea Party sets you inside spinning tea cups.
What does Paradise Pier offer in that level of theming?
And to add on another... Flik's Fun Fair TRIES to be Fantasyland and fails miserably. The only ride remotely well thought out was Flik's Flyers.
You're so predictable, Mr. Liver.Quote:
Originally Posted by MrLiver
You'd have to ask the Disneyland guests who visit each attraction whether or not they find it sufficiently differentiated. Somehow, joining the Mad Hatter and the March Hare in a cup of tea and flying with a baby elephant whose only means of lift are his previously-lamented ears elevate the attractions through the guests' suspension of disbelief and their sense of pretend. But, I'd hardly wager you would know much of such things.
More importantly, these attractions, including Disneyland Paris' Old Mill, are filler that helps regulate wait times and guest utilization. They are not, generally, significant reasons for visiting The Magic Kingdom, except among a very narrow segment of the audience.
The people behind D.C.A., conversely, assembled nothing but filler and thought they could slap the Disney name on it and charge a premium for the experience.