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  1. #16

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    Re: Walt Disney; Paradise Pier; & The Circle of Life

    Would have ended up looking more like a multi-port sea type destination, say like, oh, i don't know . . .


    TOKOYO DISNEY SEA?!?!?!?!


    and we got Paradise Pier-ed - which just is a synonym for being "presslerised", "short changed", "ripped off", "flamboozeled", and "flim flammed".

  2. #17

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    Re: Walt Disney; Paradise Pier; & The Circle of Life

    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Bob View Post
    Cost cutting Data? That's your best arguement?
    Nope! =) My best argument is this:

    Quote Originally Posted by me
    The way to pull out the rug from under the competition is by moving forward in a really amazing way, not by moving backward in a really cost-cutting way.
    The cost-cutting part points out their motives, but it's the backwards vs. forwards thing that's the heart of the issue.

    Once you learn how to paint in a gorgeous style that the world has never had the pleasure of experiencing elsewhere, you don't go back to drawing bug-eyed stick figures - even if they're really well-proportioned stick figures with excellent line quality and no smudges or sloppy erasures. Well...you can. But you don't sell the stick figures at the same price as the well-loved paintings.

    Unless you're into modern art. In which case there is no hope for you.

    If there are any modern art fans reading this, I really am kidding...slightly...


  3. #18

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    Re: Walt Disney; Paradise Pier; & The Circle of Life

    Quote Originally Posted by Coheteboy View Post
    Both scream cheap. And I think that's ultimately the problem. There is absolutely nothing wrong with having a ferris wheel type attraction at a disney park. I think it's rather romantic. But look at Disneyland Paris. They made a ferris wheel themed off The Old Mill. How clever!
    But the Old Mill is a pretty modest Ferris Wheel. It isn't the same kind of ferris wheel they would have at a seaside pier.

    The Sun Wheel is pretty massive too. It's probably the biggest Ferris wheel on the west coast. It's modeled after the Wonder Wheel on Coney Island, which is a pretty historic Ferris Wheels as far as ferris wheels go.

    So what's wrong with building something that has a historical or cultural significance? Especially if that something is also fun and entertaining at the same time. Not everything that Disney does has to be, or even should be, based entirely in fantasyland. I seem to recall that argument being used several times in defense of Frontierland.

  4. #19

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    Re: Walt Disney; Paradise Pier; & The Circle of Life

    Quote Originally Posted by MrLiver View Post
    It's modeled after the Wonder Wheel on Coney Island, which is a pretty historic Ferris Wheels as far as ferris wheels go.
    Which makes it perfect for the California theme! Oh, wait...Coney Island was a New York thing. Whoops.


  5. #20

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    Re: Walt Disney; Paradise Pier; & The Circle of Life

    Quote Originally Posted by Datameister View Post
    Which makes it perfect for the California theme! Oh, wait...Coney Island was a New York thing. Whoops.

    Yea, I think we all agree that the CA theme isn't really hashed out too well.
    Last edited by dizzneeland; 04-08-2009 at 11:30 PM.

  6. #21

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    Re: Walt Disney; Paradise Pier; & The Circle of Life

    The problem with Paradise Pier is the same as that from which Dinoland, U.S.A. suffers. Disney thought guests were stupid enough to accept cheap carnival rides as long as it presented them in the vernacular of an oceanfront amusement zone or a roadside amusement park. Now, in the case of D.C.A., that idea could potentially have worked because the Pacific Coast is such a significant part of the culture and nature of California and, conceivably, D.C.A. could have celebrated the active and carefree lifestyle of Californians merely in the mode of an oceanfront amusement zone. But, Disney conceived and executed Paradise Pier poorly in most ways. It rarely attempted to be more than what it was: a cynical way to erect a second gate on the cheap.

    Plastering images of Disney characters all over the place is not going to help the situation because the essential idea of Paradise Pier is being undermined by many of these efforts.

  7. #22

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    Re: Walt Disney; Paradise Pier; & The Circle of Life

    Quote Originally Posted by Datameister View Post
    Which makes it perfect for the California theme! Oh, wait...Coney Island was a New York thing. Whoops.
    Well a Californian Boardwalk would have the best ferris wheel they could get right. What's wrong with having the best?

  8. #23

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    Re: Walt Disney; Paradise Pier; & The Circle of Life

    Quote Originally Posted by PragmaticIdealist View Post
    The problem with Paradise Pier is the same as that from which Dinoland, U.S.A. suffers. Disney thought guests were stupid enough to accept cheap carnival rides as long as it presented them in the vernacular of an oceanfront amusement zone or a roadside amusement park.
    Stupid enough? People DO want these type of rides.

  9. #24

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    Re: Walt Disney; Paradise Pier; & The Circle of Life

    Quote Originally Posted by MrLiver View Post
    Well a Californian Boardwalk would have the best ferris wheel they could get right. What's wrong with having the best?


    yah.. what's wrong with having the best?

    We got Paradise Pier and DCA instead.


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  10. #25

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    Re: Walt Disney; Paradise Pier; & The Circle of Life

    Quote Originally Posted by MrLiver View Post
    Stupid enough? People DO want these type of rides.
    Can you back that up?

  11. #26

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    Re: Walt Disney; Paradise Pier; & The Circle of Life

    Quote Originally Posted by MrLiver View Post
    Stupid enough? People DO want these type of rides.
    They don't want to pay a premium for the kind of experience they can find at a county fair or a generic amusement park. But, keep deluding yourself, Mr. Liver. The public has spoken, and, as certain Disney executives continue resisting reality, the more they will find themselves on the wrong side of history.

  12. #27

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    Re: Walt Disney; Paradise Pier; & The Circle of Life

    Quote Originally Posted by PragmaticIdealist View Post
    The public has spoken, and, as certain Disney executives continue resisting reality, the more they will find themselves on the wrong side of history.
    So I guess you think that anyone who likes the Teacups and Dumbo are just stupid right?

  13. #28

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    Re: Walt Disney; Paradise Pier; & The Circle of Life

    I could swear I just read a trip report saying that the two who visited rode the teacups 15 times!!! People do like the 'off the shelf' type rides but the execution and surrounding details that add to the experience are very important. That's where the premium price comes in. That's what Paradise Pier in it's original form was lacking.

  14. #29

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    Re: Walt Disney; Paradise Pier; & The Circle of Life

    Quote Originally Posted by MrLiver View Post
    So I guess you think that anyone who likes the Teacups and Dumbo are just stupid right?

    To be perfectly fair, Dumbo and Teacups are perfect examples of a Disney animated property matching an existing ride. Dumbo is a flying elephant. Mad Tea Party sets you inside spinning tea cups.

    What does Paradise Pier offer in that level of theming?


    And to add on another... Flik's Fun Fair TRIES to be Fantasyland and fails miserably. The only ride remotely well thought out was Flik's Flyers.


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  15. #30

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    Re: Walt Disney; Paradise Pier; & The Circle of Life

    Quote Originally Posted by MrLiver View Post
    So I guess you think that anyone who likes the Teacups and Dumbo are just stupid right?
    You're so predictable, Mr. Liver.

    You'd have to ask the Disneyland guests who visit each attraction whether or not they find it sufficiently differentiated. Somehow, joining the Mad Hatter and the March Hare in a cup of tea and flying with a baby elephant whose only means of lift are his previously-lamented ears elevate the attractions through the guests' suspension of disbelief and their sense of pretend. But, I'd hardly wager you would know much of such things.

    More importantly, these attractions, including Disneyland Paris' Old Mill, are filler that helps regulate wait times and guest utilization. They are not, generally, significant reasons for visiting The Magic Kingdom, except among a very narrow segment of the audience.

    The people behind D.C.A., conversely, assembled nothing but filler and thought they could slap the Disney name on it and charge a premium for the experience.

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