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  1. #1711

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    Re: Disney's California Adventure Project Tracker V

    Quote Originally Posted by MasterGracey View Post
    Indeed. It's not 1966 and Paradise Bay is not New Orleans Square.
    That's not a fair comparison. Pirates is not really underground, this would be vastly more complex, actually darn near impossible, but I don't like to ever call something impossible, but this would have been too expensive even for Walt. This would need to be really far underground and there are all kinds of code issues you would encounter, and each issue would have a massive associated cost to solve the problem. It would have problems with egress, fire, structure, and venentilation just to name a few and the solutions would create problems with the others. It's a cool idea, it just wouldn't be worth it under any scenario that I could imagine.
    The Mickey audience is not made up of people; it has no racial, national, political, religious or social differences or affiliations; the Mickey audience is made up of parts of people, of that deathless, precious, ageless, absolutely primitive remnant of something in every world-wracked human being which makes us play with children’s toys and laugh without self-consciousness at silly things, and sing in bathtubs, and dream and believe that our babies are uniquely beautiful. You know…the Mickey in us.
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  2. #1712

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    Re: Disney's California Adventure Project Tracker V

    TECH STUFF!!! (if you're not fascinated with wires then I'd skip this one)

    Most of these pictures were taken on 6/19/09. You can click on any picture to see the full resolution image. All the images from 6/19/09 can be seen here.



    To read this post you'll need a new internet acronym: OMGTRBW (oh my God that's really big wire). But before getting to Wireapalooza, let's just look at what's going on in the viewing area.




    Viewing area



    It looks like a guy is putting in some 6" ABS pipe. It isn't incredibly interesting (like wire) but at least they're doing something.



    If you'd like to extract some fun from this picture then I'd suggest trying to think up rides which would be built from that orange, extending forklift thing. Remember this is DCA so all you have to do to fit the theming is stick in some lame play on words which involves California.



    Yup. Just more digging and stuff. It's not totally cool like, say, RBW (really big wire). Viewing area... More digging... Who cares? Let's get to the RBW!



    Okay. It's not totally boring in the viewing area. They're sticking some wire mesh to the above-water part of the bases of the towers. I'm not sure whether kitchen renovation experience is applicable here, but if so, then they're going to stick some cement to that. Then they might texture it manually or stick tiles or preformed stuff on top of the cement. The towers will hopefully look better than they do right now. Of course, how could they not? Wire mesh... Not as interesting as RBW but not entirely boring. At least it's a kind of wire. Not the cool kind but it's wire nonetheless.




    Digging on the other side of Wall Avenue



    I don't go on Mickey's Fun Wheel (takes too long and on these jaunts I'm a party of one) so the best I can do for high shots is ride the Golden Zephyr. Oh well. At least it gives me a chance to brush up on my technique for shooting pictures while whizzing around in a circle. That primarily involves holding down the button in burst mode and trying not to drop the camera. By the way, I think the couples in the first two rows of the spaceship should swap partners. That way I think they'd have more in common.









    By the way, there's some interesting pipe in this picture. Look at the "66" in the sign (I know it will hurt some theme critics' eyes but try anyway) and then look downwards and a little right. There's a soldered copper pipe with black insulation around it. It might be a hot water pipe. I wonder if that's what our inexplicably insulated black plastic pipe is for the WOC platform? But why would it need hot water? I doubt performers are going to shower out there. Well. It's worth considering. Most people who hear about the insulated pipe initially guess liquid nitrogen but I would think that the inner pipe would have to be metal, not plastic. Anywho...







    That's basically one pass of the area with the camera in low speed burst mode. Not as amazing as RBW but at least they're doing something over there.





    These are shots of the fountain area.




    Warming up for wire!


    "Hey! Enough of this boring stuff! Let's look at some wire!"


    "Wires are so useful. They used to hold me up when I flew around the room. Then somebody cut my wires. I've been stuck on the table for months now. If I ever find out who cut my wires I'll put such a hex on them that they'll wish they'd moved beyond this mortal plane."


    "Heh... Heh... Heh... Heh..."




    OMGTRBW!!!



    Yes! The special moment has arrived! It's RBW!!! More specifically, it's really big stranded wire. You can see an end of the wire a little left and below the center of the picture. That's some serious wire.



    There's actually two different sizes of wire: big and bigger. And there's lots of it.



    The RBW goes from one end of the platform to the other. This shot is from the Orange Stinger end.

    Don't worry! We're not done with RBW. There's more to come later.




    Pipes, pipes, pipes.
    Hook 'em up!
    Hook 'em up!


    That mysterious insulated pipe now runs from under the bridge next to Screamin's launch all the way to the Orange Stinger end of the platform.



    There's two insulated pipes and a pair of metal lines which are probably air supplies running parallel on the same set of supports.







    Each of the three sections of the platform has a tap of both insulated lines and both metal lines.



    On the supports closest to the back they're installing three metal lines, one humongous metal line which is probably the main air supply and a black plastic pipe.





    And while we're on the subject of pipes, that blue webbed pipe which has been laying around for quite a while is finally being hooked to something. Ends of it are hanging down near the BoardFloaters. Oh, and just for the record, I blew out (overexposed) the platform so you could see underneath the platform (not that I'm being defensive or anything - I'm never defensive... never!).



    There's some frames with round tops here and there. There are a couple under the platform in the previous picture. These are probably going to be used as supports for where something flexible (probably the RBW) hooks to the platform. It allows a connection from the base of the bay to the platform which moves up and down.

    If you haven't seen one of these in action before, I think you can see a small example on the floor of Tower of Terror (if I remember correctly). They use these to hook wires to the elevators. These things unroll (you'll understand when you see one in action) as the elevators move forward and backward.




    New control boxes and more RBW!

    I happened to be sauntering by Golden Zephyr before going to tape Aladdin when I saw some guys unpacking something new.



    Hmmmm... I think I've seen these things before. But where?



    OMG!!! It's some kind of power unit!!!



    Uh oh... I have a bad feeling about this.





    OH NO!!! The Empire's destroying the World of Color platform! Maybe the Empire's been taken over by jealous Fantasmic CMs. Crap!!!

    I could make some Darth Eisner jokes here but I'm out of time.




    Sorry about that. I can't get through one of these things without a couple of geek references. It took me a little while at the park before it occurred to me where I'd seen that shape before. And now back to our irregularly scheduled geeking out.

    But here's the best part about the new control boxes:



    OMGTRBW!!! And now we've got blue wire along with black wire. WHEEEEEEEEEE!!!





    And if you look really closely (it's easiest with the full-res version) you can see that these RBWs actually have four separate conductors. You can see the four separate wires sticking out the end of the black RBW. The blue RBW is connected to a RBFW (really big flat wire). The connection is protected with RBHST (really big heat shrink tubing). If you look very carefully you can see that the blue flat wire has four conductors. And there's control cables coming out of the box. I'm not sure how many control lines it has but I can see at least three in a picture below.



    They've been wrangling these things up onto the platform and then carting them around and placing them on the deck. They have four very large input and output conductors, four lobes on the top of the case, and control cables so maybe they're just giant quad contactors of doom. We've got lots of pump motors to turn on and off so maybe this is what controls their power. Going electromechanical seems a bit retro but those motors are some pretty ornery inductive loads. Or maybe they're something different. But probably they're four power rail switches of one sort or another.

    I thought I'd try to take some pictures of the control boxes from above on the Golden Zephyr. Unfortunately, while it's not hard to take wide shots from up there, tight shots are a bit more challenging. Shooting late in the day with low light at an equivalent of 320mm makes it a bit difficult to get a non-blurry shot of your target. You basically hold down the button and pray. I call it Zephyr Roulette. You're literally riding the roulette wheel trying to take pictures of things on the table as it whizzes through your field of view.



    Most of them end up looking like this one.



    But if you take enough shots you eventually get a good one. I can see at least three control cables. Maybe there's a fourth you can't see. You can also see a connector on the end of the flat blue cable.

    They're screwing things into the manifold boxes connected to the blue pipes. Presumably they're preparing to connect some air lines to them. You can also see the smaller cylindrical brass nozzles hooked to the tops of the independently pumped vertical jets. The gang pumped vertical jets have the larger tapered nozzles.





    Well that's all for now.
    Last edited by Macro; 06-22-2009 at 06:25 PM. Reason: Spelling, and typos (typoes?), and fixes. Oh my!

  3. #1713

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    Re: Disney's California Adventure Project Tracker V

    HOLY GEEZ, what ISO do you have to get those haunted mansion shots? And are you shooting manual focus on those?


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  4. #1714

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    Re: Disney's California Adventure Project Tracker V

    Quote Originally Posted by Coheteboy View Post
    HOLY GEEZ, what ISO do you have to get those haunted mansion shots? And are you shooting manual focus on those?
    Most of them are ISO 1600 shooting with the great white lens on a 40D:



    Great white is a 70-200mm F2.8 IS (ouch both in weight and cost). ISO 1600 is a given in the HM. But these are all auto focus. The trick is to frame it as tightly as possible and then downsize to make the noise go away. You get better results than with a faster lens (50mm F1.8) which doesn't frame things as tightly. The full res versions are pretty noisy but I have ones larger than the small versions in this post which are pretty clean noise-wise.

    I think the bottom part of the singing statue actually was a Sigma 30mm F1.4 I got recently. That statue picture is a composite because of the dynamic range. That Sigma doesn't always require ISO 1600 but the depth of field is brutal at F1.4. I wanted to take some night shots from the Mark Twain so I needed the fastest lens I could afford. Doing hand-held night shots from a moving steamship is pretty cool. I'll post them once I have some time.

  5. #1715

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    Re: Disney's California Adventure Project Tracker V

    Great update, it's always a pleasure reading them.

    And extra kudos for Star Wars references!

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  6. #1716

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    Re: Disney's California Adventure Project Tracker V

    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Bob View Post
    That's not a fair comparison. Pirates is not really underground, this would be vastly more complex, actually darn near impossible, but I don't like to ever call something impossible, but this would have been too expensive even for Walt. This would need to be really far underground and there are all kinds of code issues you would encounter, and each issue would have a massive associated cost to solve the problem. It would have problems with egress, fire, structure, and venentilation just to name a few and the solutions would create problems with the others. It's a cool idea, it just wouldn't be worth it under any scenario that I could imagine.
    Well, as Imagineers thrive on the "impossible" (or at least they used to) based on an old Walt quote: "It's kind of fun to do the impossible."

    If funding was available, I have no doubt that the Imagineers could come up with a successful attraction that fit under the lagoon and met all the criteria you considered problems. The only scenario in which it wouldn't work would be if they weren't able to financially support it. But, given the limited space available for expansion, sometimes a costly alternative could result in a financial benefit.

  7. #1717

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    Re: Disney's California Adventure Project Tracker V

    Marco, sensational update.



    And the Star Wars references was
    a nice, comical touch.

  8. #1718

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    Re: Disney's California Adventure Project Tracker V

    Quote Originally Posted by bfdf55 View Post
    Well, as Imagineers thrive on the "impossible" (or at least they used to) based on an old Walt quote: "It's kind of fun to do the impossible."

    If funding was available, I have no doubt that the Imagineers could come up with a successful attraction that fit under the lagoon and met all the criteria you considered problems. The only scenario in which it wouldn't work would be if they weren't able to financially support it. But, given the limited space available for expansion, sometimes a costly alternative could result in a financial benefit.
    You do realize that if they were to do it today, it would probably cost more then it would to rebuild the original DCA?!

  9. #1719

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    Re: Disney's California Adventure Project Tracker V

    Yea, some of us talked about this whole Underground idea over here: Creative Ideas for a New PP Attraction????

    But yea basically came down to the same things mentioned above. But Since space is so limited in PP something this drastic...not necessarily UNDER paradise bay..but something like a underground attraction may have to be built.

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    Re: Disney's California Adventure Project Tracker V

    Quote Originally Posted by Smontalvo1489 View Post
    Yea, some of us talked about this whole Underground idea over here: Creative Ideas for a New PP Attraction????

    But yea basically came down to the same things mentioned above. But Since space is so limited in PP something this drastic...not necessarily UNDER paradise bay..but something like a underground attraction may have to be built.
    of course, NOW it's too late. After spending millions on the WoC show set-up, tearing all that out would be an immense waste of money. Of course, IF WoC turns out to be a dud or fails to function, they may start looking at other alternatives.

  11. #1721

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    Re: Disney's California Adventure Project Tracker V

    Quote Originally Posted by bfdf55 View Post
    of course, NOW it's too late. After spending millions on the WoC show set-up, tearing all that out would be an immense waste of money. Of course, IF WoC turns out to be a dud or fails to function, they may start looking at other alternatives.
    haha well OBVIOUSLY its too late. No one's questioning that.

    Over in that thread we spoke more about the parade area behind Screamin. No one mentioned anything under paradise bay. THAT WOULD BE CRAZY.... and yes... close to imposible.

  12. #1722

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    Re: Disney's California Adventure Project Tracker V

    Quote Originally Posted by bfdf55 View Post
    of course, NOW it's too late. After spending millions on the WoC show set-up, tearing all that out would be an immense waste of money. Of course, IF WoC turns out to be a dud or fails to function, they may start looking at other alternatives.
    After all the money, time, and effort being devoted
    to the World of Color show, it better not reveal itself to be
    a failure or a dud.

    Disney has invested too much to let it become a massive
    disappointment.

  13. #1723

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    Re: Disney's California Adventure Project Tracker V

    Macro for President!!! another awesome update.. You should have your own WOC update section!!!
    "If you want breakfast in bed sleep in the kitchen!"

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    Re: Disney's California Adventure Project Tracker V

    Interesting idea but could you imagine the cost of the structure alone to make it water safe and earthquake safe.

    I could also imagine the cost in creating an access point for future maintenance and refurb just to get attraction vehicles in or out without having to drain the bay every time. Also evacuation points in case of an earthquake and a completely seperate structure for all the electrical and computer softwar eto run the attraction.


    I think the best thing for them to do is to eventually consider removing ariels grotto (soon to be Princess Palace and build a new restaurant somewhere else. That area could then become another large attraction spot.

    Another area that i had mentioned before that can be used at the waters edge is the section between the Mickey funwheel and Screamin launch. There is a large area that has not WOC equipment and could eaisly be used if the boardwalk is extended into the water.
    Last edited by Baloo; 06-22-2009 at 09:19 PM.

  15. #1725

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    Re: Disney's California Adventure Project Tracker V

    OMG what if the government had spies as good as the Mice Chat people are at spying on Disney.

    As for the building under the bay: Assuming unlimited funding it would be nice to have a vast underground area for rides. The problem is the water table and the earthquakes. The Matterhorn and the parking garage are sinking or have sunk in the past. I do not know the water table level at DLR but it is probably less than 200 feet down. The sheer weight of the water would make it almost impossible to build because of the support.

    HOWEVER, it is fun to dream as that is what Disney is about, dreams. I can dream about impossible things like a trip to WDW or seeing the Statue of Liberty as the impossible dreams are what men are made of and what keeps us going. I love your dream of an under the bay area with rides.


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